| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale 08:14 - Dec 16 with 16834 views | Outsider |
Please can you collectively request in writing to the Trust chairman and existing board members that the proposed share sale be paused until you have had adequate time to review the proposal properly, with external specialist assistance as necessary, and decide on your considered opinions.
I would recommend that you also inform the chairman and other board members that if they do not agree to this request in writing, that you plan to resign immediately, which I believe would leave the board non-quorate again and therefore not able to legally proceed with the proposed share sale. Article 54 of the Trust Model Rules states “With effect from the society’s first annual general meeting, the society board is to have not less than 12 and not more than 15 members …”
With ex-chairman Phil Sumbler confirming in writing yesterday that he no longer believes the proposed share sale is in the best interests of the Swans Trust (which means the vote by Trust members in the summer was influenced by information that Phil Sumbler no longer supports), there are material grounds to insist that the Trust board does not proceed with the proposed share sale and re-examines its options, including legal action, and further consults with ordinary Trust members.
Without making your expectations to the chairman and other board members very clear and documenting them, there is risk that the existing Trust board will proceed to sign-off on the proposed share sale based on the mandate they received from the member vote in the summer. The opinions expressed by the Trust chairman and other board members at the Trust forum meeting last Thursday illustrates the reality of this risk.
Thank you for representing the ordinary members of the Trust and ensuring that the Trust board takes decisions that are in the best interests of the Trust. |  | | |  |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 10:43 - Dec 18 with 2466 views | Uxbridge |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 10:35 - Dec 18 by 34dfgdf54 |
<<That third paragraph, or specifically the last bit. Just, simply wrong, and does you no favours. Disagree, fine, but the rest is cheap and I expected better from your group.>>
Don't go down that route Ux, what people say on here, including me doesn't echo the whole "group". We have a right to be worried though, the revote has to happen. |
You'll forgive me, of all people, finding that a little ironic given that the same courtesy isn't given in reverse. Anyway, like I said, he'll find out for himself and I've got no interest in causing problems for the new group ... our (I mean their and my) views are pretty closely aligned in most areas.
As for the revote, I've said my piece. If people want to ignore what I wrote on this thread and say I want to force the deal through then there's not a lot more I can say. |  |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 10:48 - Dec 18 with 2456 views | Uxbridge |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 10:43 - Dec 18 by ATFV |
No they are not. Ron Knuszka was petulantly trumpeting that the rubber stamping of the deal bybthe Anericans would come me through in the next few days. Chair and SD said this deal really had to be concluded as quickly as possible from here.
It’s those comments - and the complete ignoring of concerns and indeed lofty, “how dare you question what we are doing, you peasant” attitude from Board Members - that lead to theories it will be done in days.
Of course, that blindly ignores the continuing modus operandi of the Americans, which is to a lay games, move the goal posts, sneak in unpalatable clauses and generally mess people around - which may actually now work in our favour for once! |
As you know, I wasn't there on Thursday. If Ron said that, then he overreached, and I'd have immediately contradicted. It's simply not practical, if nothing else.
I can't really get involved in the rest. I wasn't there, and there are varying reports even on here. It's certainly not representative of my view though, and if you want my opinion it's not representative of the board. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 10:51 - Dec 18 with 2446 views | monmouth |
Can I join in and say I like me too?
Ux is trying to do his best mun. Justremember he's an accountant.
More seriously, it is becoming increasingly obvious that every Trust Member, in whatever camp, group or organisation, should be planning for this AGM, whatever day or time it is held.
Whilst I think of it, I still can't do whatsapp, but perhaps the SCSA can clarify the arrangement for proxy votes. I've seen some very heated meetings where the clear vote in the room has been voted down by 'miracle' invisible proxies being used by chairmen and boards wanting their own way. That would raise hell. Sorry if this has been covered in one of the threads. I'm starting to lose track. |  |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:06 - Dec 18 with 2417 views | Shaky |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 10:51 - Dec 18 by monmouth |
Can I join in and say I like me too?
Ux is trying to do his best mun. Justremember he's an accountant.
More seriously, it is becoming increasingly obvious that every Trust Member, in whatever camp, group or organisation, should be planning for this AGM, whatever day or time it is held.
Whilst I think of it, I still can't do whatsapp, but perhaps the SCSA can clarify the arrangement for proxy votes. I've seen some very heated meetings where the clear vote in the room has been voted down by 'miracle' invisible proxies being used by chairmen and boards wanting their own way. That would raise hell. Sorry if this has been covered in one of the threads. I'm starting to lose track. |
Maybe as a first step the SCSA should clarify exactly what their position is in regards to the Trust's proposed deal with Kaplan.
OK they are questioning it, but what does that mean? Yes or no?
Further, are they urging their members to (re)join the Trust so they can vote?
The SCSA and all the other recently formed groups need to come out and clearly state their position. Soon. [Post edited 18 Dec 2017 11:07]
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:09 - Dec 18 with 2412 views | chad |
Mon
Oh yes there is no doubt they will be using proxies and the Chair can have as many as he likes - we can only have 3 each - that is where stealth would have been better
Think the letters went by the by because of the AGM
But definitely lots to be clarified about timescales and notifications required and if motions definitely will be taken from the floor and exactly what proxies can be used for
p.s you do know the new rules that made publicly disagreeing with other Trust Board members a disciplinary offence, that I pointed out, and you and many others were rightly so against were Uxs baby
"The Trust has improved in that regard, particularly with the implementation of its new governance process which will ensure transparency and professionalism, which I was heavily involved with. "
Also
"I was a member of the subgroup negotiating with the Americans to agree a settlement in relation to the Trust shareholding and believe that accepting the offer we’ve received, whilst not perfect, is the best option in meeting the Trust’s objectives"
which might explain the desire for it to go ahead [Post edited 18 Dec 2017 11:26]
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:12 - Dec 18 with 2408 views | Shaky |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 23:11 - Dec 17 by Outsider |
Shaky - you are remarkably complacent given the repeated failures of Trust governance that have occurred.
There is a legally constituted board (still waiting to hear why you think this is not the case. With the mandate that exists, there are multiple ways the board or a sub-committee or a chairman can sign-off on the share sale. You may have seen earlier that the preference of Ux is for the board to give a yay/nay and not be too concerned about the details.
As said earlier in my view the first priority is to close the door on the risk of the share sale being signed-off before the AGM, and immediately after that work on AGM resolutions. |
You fail to spot the wood for the trees.
All you can do in the period up to the AGM is forestall a decision on the deal.
Immediately after that time ends comes the AGM showdown where you can actually extinguish the deal completely. That is the strategic objective, as it were, and as such is the battle you should focus on winning. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:19 - Dec 18 with 2400 views | Shaky |
. . .the other thing is the Trust rules say that the AGM must be held by the end of January, but UXbridge has stated he thinks it could be the first or second Monday in the month.
Try to ignore all the paranoia and hysteria that is self-evidendly posing a serious risk of spontaneous combustion to so many here, and ask youself why would he lie about that?
Then take away the Christmas break where nothing can reasonably be expected to be processed, say in terms of Trust membership applications, and you are incredibly short of time to prepare.
We are at DEFCON 2, and there is no time to fart around with wild goose chases and implausible far-fetched conspiracy theories. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:29 - Dec 18 with 2381 views | Shaky |
And BTW if the SCSA or any other group want to develop a plan for proxies and the meeting strategy, they should try to contact Wobbly, with whom i have excchanged ideas via PM. i am sure he would be happy to help. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 with 2324 views | ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. | | | |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:56 - Dec 18 with 2303 views | Darran |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. |
I like you. |  |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:56 - Dec 18 with 2303 views | Smellyplumz |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. |
Good to hear thank you for the post and don't be a stranger. |  |
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""Although I cannot promise or predict the future, I can guarantee one thing - the current board of directors will always fight, as we have done over the last 12 years, to work together as one with the Supporters Trust to make 100% sure that Swansea City football club remains the number one priority in all our thoughts and in every decision we make." | | Poll: | Huw Jenkins |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:59 - Dec 18 with 2291 views | monmouth |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. |
Thank you. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:02 - Dec 18 with 2283 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. |
Good man.
Thanks for the update. |  | | |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:07 - Dec 18 with 2279 views | Landore_Jack |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. |
Thanks for the update. It's a shame Stu Mac isn't as vocal. |  |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:24 - Dec 18 with 2242 views | derijack |
Thankyou! | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:33 - Dec 18 with 2218 views | TheResurrection |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:49 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
All
Just to update you, I have been in constant contact with Lisa and Dai since my appointment in respect of the share sale. Given my background I see this as the area I can most usefully assist at the moment. I am meeting up with Dai this week in London (as we are both babes here) to discuss so he can fully put me in the loop on events leading up to where we are. Following this I plan to set out my thoughts to the board on the deal. I can only say that from my experience during the last week that the board members have been very receptive of the thoughts of the new members and Lisa since we got involved. Lisa in particular is doing a great job of outlining her concerns and it is clear to say that her experience is going to be incredibly valuable.
I can say though that any worries about a deal being pushed through without cause or for any "dodgy" reasons can't be supported. I will continue to give my updates as I appreciate the need for transparency from members at present. |
Thanks Andrew,
What did you vote for in the Summer by the way? Why, and has your mind changed since?
There was a lot of debate and information, especially on this site, so would like to know a little more about where you stand on this matter and was this a reason for you putting yourself forward.
Cheers |  |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:41 - Dec 18 with 2192 views | ajmcglashan |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:33 - Dec 18 by TheResurrection |
Thanks Andrew,
What did you vote for in the Summer by the way? Why, and has your mind changed since?
There was a lot of debate and information, especially on this site, so would like to know a little more about where you stand on this matter and was this a reason for you putting yourself forward.
Cheers |
I voted for the sale of the shares in the summer. I must say though that I wasn't happy with any of the options and was incredibly frustrated that this was the position we found ourselves in. I also didn't think that the legal route would ultimately get us to a better position. It would also have been a very expensive process, with no guaranteed success (although a strong case) and would have been a bad distraction for all involved.
I have got copies of what was sent to all members in the summer and I will compare this forensically to the current status of the deal. I will then be able to see what, if any, material differences there are. This process will then form my view on the deal and I will report back to the Trust board on the same. | | | |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:44 - Dec 18 with 2177 views | Outsider |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 11:12 - Dec 18 by Shaky |
You fail to spot the wood for the trees.
All you can do in the period up to the AGM is forestall a decision on the deal.
Immediately after that time ends comes the AGM showdown where you can actually extinguish the deal completely. That is the strategic objective, as it were, and as such is the battle you should focus on winning. |
Not at all - I see the wood from the trees clearly - as do many others. The risk of the share sale being signed-off before the AGM is being mitigated - this is good news - and makes the work underway to prepare for the AGM worthwhile. | | | |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:51 - Dec 18 with 2156 views | TheResurrection |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:41 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
I voted for the sale of the shares in the summer. I must say though that I wasn't happy with any of the options and was incredibly frustrated that this was the position we found ourselves in. I also didn't think that the legal route would ultimately get us to a better position. It would also have been a very expensive process, with no guaranteed success (although a strong case) and would have been a bad distraction for all involved.
I have got copies of what was sent to all members in the summer and I will compare this forensically to the current status of the deal. I will then be able to see what, if any, material differences there are. This process will then form my view on the deal and I will report back to the Trust board on the same. |
So broadly speaking at this very moment in time you are still in favour of selling the shares based on the deal that's still on the table?
What is your view on the ongoing working relationship with the Americans and the reasons Phil and Matt gave for resigning?
Has the case for legal action improved with recent news from the court case for unfair dismissal?
Would you not want to encourage your Board to consider a re vote in light of the feeling and anguish from all corners of social media?
Where is William Kelly? | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 13:08 - Dec 18 with 2105 views | monmouth |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:41 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
I voted for the sale of the shares in the summer. I must say though that I wasn't happy with any of the options and was incredibly frustrated that this was the position we found ourselves in. I also didn't think that the legal route would ultimately get us to a better position. It would also have been a very expensive process, with no guaranteed success (although a strong case) and would have been a bad distraction for all involved.
I have got copies of what was sent to all members in the summer and I will compare this forensically to the current status of the deal. I will then be able to see what, if any, material differences there are. This process will then form my view on the deal and I will report back to the Trust board on the same. |
I took the opposite view, that the downsides of the deal were worse. If you are going to factor in fully the downside of legal risk (ie assuming you lose) you have to factor in fully the downside risk of the deal (ie the Americans ignore the Trust who have negotiated away all of their levers for £4m after tax and are dragged along for peanuts).
At least with legal we'd still have 20% of the club and no drag along. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 13:17 - Dec 18 with 2086 views | Shaky |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 12:41 - Dec 18 by ajmcglashan |
I voted for the sale of the shares in the summer. I must say though that I wasn't happy with any of the options and was incredibly frustrated that this was the position we found ourselves in. I also didn't think that the legal route would ultimately get us to a better position. It would also have been a very expensive process, with no guaranteed success (although a strong case) and would have been a bad distraction for all involved.
I have got copies of what was sent to all members in the summer and I will compare this forensically to the current status of the deal. I will then be able to see what, if any, material differences there are. This process will then form my view on the deal and I will report back to the Trust board on the same. |
i am sure that is not what most were hoping to hear.
However, do you accept the membership has a right to change its mind about the deal? | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 14:41 - Dec 18 with 1983 views | E20Jack |
Sorry only just catching up with this thread, and the discussion may well have moved on.
But Ux, you have stated that whether the working relationship has changed is "not up for discussion" because you are not unanimous on the board that it has...
Shouldn't the members be the ones to decide if terms have materially changed or relationships and trust changed? Not you guys?
The Trust chairman resigned citing this as a main cause. To brush it off and make a final judgement that there is no issue is not the duty of the board. Any significant changes that the board in former or current form cannot agree on should automatically be submitted to the members to decide.
This seems to be a view of the tail wagging the dog brigade to me. Although that doesn't shock me. [Post edited 18 Dec 2017 14:54]
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 14:57 - Dec 18 with 1969 views | Uxbridge |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 14:41 - Dec 18 by E20Jack |
Sorry only just catching up with this thread, and the discussion may well have moved on.
But Ux, you have stated that whether the working relationship has changed is "not up for discussion" because you are not unanimous on the board that it has...
Shouldn't the members be the ones to decide if terms have materially changed or relationships and trust changed? Not you guys?
The Trust chairman resigned citing this as a main cause. To brush it off and make a final judgement that there is no issue is not the duty of the board. Any significant changes that the board in former or current form cannot agree on should automatically be submitted to the members to decide.
This seems to be a view of the tail wagging the dog brigade to me. Although that doesn't shock me. [Post edited 18 Dec 2017 14:54]
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I said the exact opposite actually. I've also said what I think needs to happen from now, which is at odds with what you write below. | |
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| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 15:17 - Dec 18 with 1918 views | E20Jack |
| FAO new Trust board members: action on the proposed share sale on 14:57 - Dec 18 by Uxbridge |
I said the exact opposite actually. I've also said what I think needs to happen from now, which is at odds with what you write below. |
You said the following of the statement: that the relationship changing being so obvious it is not up for discussion:-
"You say that's not up for discussion, yet that's based on one of the three people who had that working relationship saying so. Two did not at the time of the November meeting. It's absolutely up for discussion".
So when you say it is up for discussion, you mean amongst yourselves only yes? Unless I missed it being put to the members? That very discussion which led to resignations as there was no unanimous decision and therefor a decision to continue anyway....
So saying you said "the opposite" is not true is it. I am saying this relationship changing should be put to the members to decide - so far all you have stated was some think it hasn't which is why you are carrying on anyway.
Feel free to correct the premise of any of that. But think that is wholly accurate. | |
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