| No money 21:39 - Oct 26 with 17485 views | magicdaps10 |
Been told by two people in the last 24 hours that the word from within the club is that there is no money.
They are not seriously that dull or even ignorant to attempt to filter this to the fans!?! |  |
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| No money on 10:06 - Oct 27 with 2541 views | magicdaps10 |
| No money on 09:59 - Oct 27 by MoscowJack |
A few things......
Someone comes on here and says something along the lines of "my mate's granny's friend said...." and everyone believes it???? Come on......!
The fact is that the old Board only spent what they had (unless they were desperate and either got a serviceable (while in the PL) overdraft or borrowed against future transfer revenues) and the new owners have basically done exactly the same.
There's almost nothing new, except that HJ and LD are still working for the club but have multi-millionaire statuses.
I fully expect that we've still got available to spend what's leftover from Gylfi and Llorente's sales, with maybe a little more if we're that desperate (which I think we may be come Jan).
What I'm more worried about is who's spending the money and choosing the players. Despite all the hype around Sanches' signing (see as a major coup by many including me), the stats for his time at Bayern suggested his signing was a huge risk and it's proving to be one that isn't working. For every Michu, there's a dozen that have failed and Sanches doesn't look like he's going to be the saviour everyone hoped for. There's still time for him to shine, of course, but does our system encourage creative players? Does our manager coach the creativity out of players like Sanches and Mesa?
We do have some talented and experienced players in the squad - Fab, Fede, Mawson, Olssen, Ki, Leon, Mesa (hopefully), Fer (usually), Ayew, Tammy and Wilf are all quite good. It's not a bad basis for a team, but there's a spark missing. LT10 was, Jason Scotland was, Scott Sinclair was that spark in the year we got promoted, Michu was when he arrived, Bony was for a while and even Gomis showed a bit of promise.....but we're lacking it now. Teams don't look at us and fear one player anymore, let alone two or three.
Part of this, in my opinion, is poor recruitment and poor management. PC is to blame for one half and HJ the other. If PC is going to be fired, then so should Jenkins be. He's failed for far too long now, both with player signings and managerial signings and that's not even to mention his screwing of the Trust and all the 'investment' or 'next level' pledges he's made.
Even if we have £50m to spend, which I very much doubt, I don't trust Jenkins to spend it well nor PC to get the best out of any team unless we suddenly get extra points for being drab, boring and lacking in ambition.
I want our passing game back. I want our width back. I want average players to look good again, because collectively they are when they play for the right manager and have the right group ethic.
Have a look at our starting XI vs Man City in our first ever PL game to see the difference between our over-paid primadonnas and a group of very hard-working professionals desperately loving life at the top table.
I doubt Brendan or Roberto would come back, but that's what we need right now.....before it's too late. |
As i stated, it is what i have heard from a couple of people...............i am not saying that it is FACT but its an open forum for people to air their views.
No one else has stated that they have heard the same, lets hope it is just false rumor.........otherwise we are most certainly up shiit creek without a paddle. | |
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| No money on 10:45 - Oct 27 with 2472 views | whiterock |
| No money on 10:06 - Oct 27 by magicdaps10 |
As i stated, it is what i have heard from a couple of people...............i am not saying that it is FACT but its an open forum for people to air their views.
No one else has stated that they have heard the same, lets hope it is just false rumor.........otherwise we are most certainly up shiit creek without a paddle. |
But as Nick says, there might be money available (lets assume there is) but its who's spending it that worries me, I would give Jenkins this window to get it right, after all, he done the biz last January, and over the 15 years he's been dealing in transfers, in the main, he slightly comes out on top. |  | | |
| No money on 10:55 - Oct 27 with 2464 views | MoscowJack |
| No money on 10:45 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
But as Nick says, there might be money available (lets assume there is) but its who's spending it that worries me, I would give Jenkins this window to get it right, after all, he done the biz last January, and over the 15 years he's been dealing in transfers, in the main, he slightly comes out on top. |
If he gets this wrong, it'll be his and our last transfer window in the PL!
One big question is......would it make sense to keep PC to use his contacts or is it pointless as whoever we sign will be playing under an extremely dour manager?
One more thing - does anyone know if we've dropped the policy of relegation clauses in contracts for the players? It's criminal if we have, but I've heard we dropped this a few seasons ago. We'd be crippled if we got relegated....if it's true. | |
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| No money on 10:57 - Oct 27 with 2456 views | Highjack |
| No money on 10:45 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
But as Nick says, there might be money available (lets assume there is) but its who's spending it that worries me, I would give Jenkins this window to get it right, after all, he done the biz last January, and over the 15 years he's been dealing in transfers, in the main, he slightly comes out on top. |
It's only since laudrups second season he's really taken control of transfers, since the fallout with that tutu bloke.
Previously managers had been able to bring in their own players. Martinez brought in all the spaniards, Rodgers signed a lot of ex Chelsea/Watford/reading players. Laudrup brought in a load of his players too.
The day we signed Ngog and Emnes it all changed and it's been going tits up ever since.
Somewhere along the line he's moved from the role he was doing so well which was a support to the manager without too much interference to an overbearing dictator. It's either his ego or the £ signs in his eyes but we're suffering from it now. |  |
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| No money (n/t) on 11:07 - Oct 27 with 2434 views | WarwickHunt |
| No money on 10:57 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
It's only since laudrups second season he's really taken control of transfers, since the fallout with that tutu bloke.
Previously managers had been able to bring in their own players. Martinez brought in all the spaniards, Rodgers signed a lot of ex Chelsea/Watford/reading players. Laudrup brought in a load of his players too.
The day we signed Ngog and Emnes it all changed and it's been going tits up ever since.
Somewhere along the line he's moved from the role he was doing so well which was a support to the manager without too much interference to an overbearing dictator. It's either his ego or the £ signs in his eyes but we're suffering from it now. |
Spot on.
Some on here saw it at the time and got pelters from the "In Huw we trust" Stepfords. [Post edited 27 Oct 2017 11:09]
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| No money on 11:20 - Oct 27 with 2399 views | magicdaps10 |
| No money on 10:45 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
But as Nick says, there might be money available (lets assume there is) but its who's spending it that worries me, I would give Jenkins this window to get it right, after all, he done the biz last January, and over the 15 years he's been dealing in transfers, in the main, he slightly comes out on top. |
Dont totally agree on that, especially the Huw situation over transfers in the last 15 years.
The best Transfer window in our recent history, a lot of players were scouted by Kevin Reeves and Roberto was aware of others.......the summer of 2007.
In recent years, the best signings were from players the manager(Rodgers/Laudrup) wanted. Players like Sinclair, Michu,DeGuzman etc etc.
Jenkins has been awful in the last handful of windows.......does he really deserve another window and one that looks to be the most important in our PL life. | |
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| No money on 11:27 - Oct 27 with 2394 views | OptimisticJack |
No coincidence in the year before the sale of shares that the club made a handsome profit, so much so that they voted to give themselves a 100% pay rise. Huw Jenkins went from 250k a year to 500k a year overnight. All his cronies had the same percentage pay rise. It was their last opportunity to get their heads in the trough.
When the sale of shares to the Americans completed - mysteriously we were in debt . Some serious manipulation of the books seems to have been undertaken prior to sale of shares and huge sums of cash taken from the club. | |
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| No money on 11:49 - Oct 27 with 2370 views | Wingstandwood |
| No money on 11:27 - Oct 27 by OptimisticJack |
No coincidence in the year before the sale of shares that the club made a handsome profit, so much so that they voted to give themselves a 100% pay rise. Huw Jenkins went from 250k a year to 500k a year overnight. All his cronies had the same percentage pay rise. It was their last opportunity to get their heads in the trough.
When the sale of shares to the Americans completed - mysteriously we were in debt . Some serious manipulation of the books seems to have been undertaken prior to sale of shares and huge sums of cash taken from the club. |
We dont know arf IMO..... From day one, the sell-outs came in with the sole tend to further their own ends, hidden adgendas, stuff their back pockets and ego's. Look what has happened!
Reminds me of many a Workingmans Club Commitee member who makes sure its not some voluntary role without perks, privellege and some rather nice clever arrangement or two where??? You know when there is often undoubted reward (*cough, cough, cough, cough*) for voluteering free of charge to get up so early in the morning to help empty the bandits of overnight takings! [Post edited 27 Oct 2017 11:58]
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| No money on 12:14 - Oct 27 with 2320 views | swan65split |
| No money on 10:57 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
It's only since laudrups second season he's really taken control of transfers, since the fallout with that tutu bloke.
Previously managers had been able to bring in their own players. Martinez brought in all the spaniards, Rodgers signed a lot of ex Chelsea/Watford/reading players. Laudrup brought in a load of his players too.
The day we signed Ngog and Emnes it all changed and it's been going tits up ever since.
Somewhere along the line he's moved from the role he was doing so well which was a support to the manager without too much interference to an overbearing dictator. It's either his ego or the £ signs in his eyes but we're suffering from it now. |
da iawn........Pinocchio the tosser. |  | | |
| No money on 12:24 - Oct 27 with 2302 views | swan65split |
| No money on 09:59 - Oct 27 by MoscowJack |
A few things......
Someone comes on here and says something along the lines of "my mate's granny's friend said...." and everyone believes it???? Come on......!
The fact is that the old Board only spent what they had (unless they were desperate and either got a serviceable (while in the PL) overdraft or borrowed against future transfer revenues) and the new owners have basically done exactly the same.
There's almost nothing new, except that HJ and LD are still working for the club but have multi-millionaire statuses.
I fully expect that we've still got available to spend what's leftover from Gylfi and Llorente's sales, with maybe a little more if we're that desperate (which I think we may be come Jan).
What I'm more worried about is who's spending the money and choosing the players. Despite all the hype around Sanches' signing (see as a major coup by many including me), the stats for his time at Bayern suggested his signing was a huge risk and it's proving to be one that isn't working. For every Michu, there's a dozen that have failed and Sanches doesn't look like he's going to be the saviour everyone hoped for. There's still time for him to shine, of course, but does our system encourage creative players? Does our manager coach the creativity out of players like Sanches and Mesa?
We do have some talented and experienced players in the squad - Fab, Fede, Mawson, Olssen, Ki, Leon, Mesa (hopefully), Fer (usually), Ayew, Tammy and Wilf are all quite good. It's not a bad basis for a team, but there's a spark missing. LT10 was, Jason Scotland was, Scott Sinclair was that spark in the year we got promoted, Michu was when he arrived, Bony was for a while and even Gomis showed a bit of promise.....but we're lacking it now. Teams don't look at us and fear one player anymore, let alone two or three.
Part of this, in my opinion, is poor recruitment and poor management. PC is to blame for one half and HJ the other. If PC is going to be fired, then so should Jenkins be. He's failed for far too long now, both with player signings and managerial signings and that's not even to mention his screwing of the Trust and all the 'investment' or 'next level' pledges he's made.
Even if we have £50m to spend, which I very much doubt, I don't trust Jenkins to spend it well nor PC to get the best out of any team unless we suddenly get extra points for being drab, boring and lacking in ambition.
I want our passing game back. I want our width back. I want average players to look good again, because collectively they are when they play for the right manager and have the right group ethic.
Have a look at our starting XI vs Man City in our first ever PL game to see the difference between our over-paid primadonnas and a group of very hard-working professionals desperately loving life at the top table.
I doubt Brendan or Roberto would come back, but that's what we need right now.....before it's too late. |
I would sack the both of them , both of them, in my view are ruining the club, one financially, and possibly successfully. the other football wise, from being flowing , fast and exciting, to boring, dire, clueless, and hopeless.
Judge me at the end of the season he says...........too big a risk says I . | | | |
| No money on 12:44 - Oct 27 with 2278 views | whiterock |
| No money on 10:57 - Oct 27 by Highjack |
It's only since laudrups second season he's really taken control of transfers, since the fallout with that tutu bloke.
Previously managers had been able to bring in their own players. Martinez brought in all the spaniards, Rodgers signed a lot of ex Chelsea/Watford/reading players. Laudrup brought in a load of his players too.
The day we signed Ngog and Emnes it all changed and it's been going tits up ever since.
Somewhere along the line he's moved from the role he was doing so well which was a support to the manager without too much interference to an overbearing dictator. It's either his ego or the £ signs in his eyes but we're suffering from it now. |
Jenkins has been involved in transfers for 15 years, the wheels haven't quite come off yet as Llorente and the 4 brought in last January prove, I'd like to believe that with a little patients Borja would have come good and Gomis scores for fun at every other club he's been with, perhaps we didn't give him the service?
The same thing is happening now as Tammy will score if given that service.
The day we signed Ngog was 2012/13, we're still here in 2017/18, will we be here for another season, I believe so, but we have to get this window right and as said previous, Jan 1st not 31st | | | |
| No money on 13:48 - Oct 27 with 2201 views | AguycalledJack |
| No money on 22:23 - Oct 26 by Wingstandwood |
No money? It would not surprise me if a lot of the clubs money ends up being 'cleverly-accounted' i.e. consultancy fees, unforseen remuneration package(S), bonuses and rewards, pay-offs, insane contracts i.e. the £650,000 for a p.a system contract mentioned on here.
You know a way where the board (*surprise, cough, cough, cough, surprise*) end up getter rather more richer than the rich they were before! Don't get me wrong all perfectly legal in a very cunning, devious and underhand sort of way. |
This years accounts will make interesting reading.
Keep an eye out for the consultancy fees as in my view this the only way the owners can get cash out of the club without sharing a percentage apportionment with the trust. | | | |
| No money on 15:16 - Oct 27 with 2135 views | Dewi1jack |
| No money on 09:17 - Oct 27 by whiterock |
To be fair, the Trust can't come on here and tell us detail
All I hope is that we are identifying the players needed now so that come January 1st we swoop. If you are reading this HJ, please don't let 3/4 games to slip by in January. |
I don't expect detail.
Just some communication from them.
Deathly silence since the vote last August.
Not even coming out to squash or substantiate rumours about the Yanks reneging on the deal.
Or trying to change terms. Or a rough precis of how the talks on the 5% sale are going ahead/ will go ahead if we looked doomed after Xmas.
In fact. Nothing at all.
Just begging letters for subs renewal.
Sorry.
Not having a pop at you mate.
Just thinking I've wasted my last tenner on subs to them. After many years of paying up. And that makes me feel a bit sad if I'm truthful.
And I only did that to try and have a vote in not giving the proceeds of the sale back to the scum waste to go down the stadium lease route.
Because I trust all the greedy, self serving b'stards owning our lovely, ugly club, as far as I could throw the stadium itself |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| No money on 16:12 - Oct 27 with 2091 views | Shonky |
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| No money on 16:42 - Oct 27 with 2067 views | E20Jack |
| No money on 23:32 - Oct 26 by Kilkennyjack |
Maybe they are the same people who could see ahead to this .....
‘The Swans among the elite in the world game when their reported revenue of €132.8m saw them placed in 26 of the 2016 Deloitte Money League, above the likes of Italian giants Napoli’.
I guess these people had a valid point after all ?
You cleary dont agree that the 26th richest club in the world (pretty recently) should not have money worries if the business was managed professionally. |
That is based on income - not disposable income.
If you get a billion pounds income per year, but your outgoings are also a billion then it isn't much good if you want to use that income to spend on more players.
So there is no valid point. Any moron knows that Premier League teams get £100m+ plus per year which puts us at the top of the footballing pyramid in terms of income. To think we will be set up for life or even set up for more than a season however - is where their point turns into farce and ridiculousness.
What we have we spend. Have you not noticed that nearly all Premier League teams make a loss year on year? They are funded by loans. Our external income is worse than nearly all due to the capacity of the stadium and the failings of the commercial side. We cannot keep a side capable of staying in the league and make consistent profits, just isn't feasible.
Which is why our transfer budgets come from what we can manage to make in the transfer market - hence the need to buy with sell on value. [Post edited 27 Oct 2017 16:53]
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| No money on 17:27 - Oct 27 with 2024 views | NOTRAC |
Whilst it is true that commercial income and gate money are lower than most clubs, a summary of wages for all years in the Premiership shows worrying Trends.
2012. £34.5m
2013. £48.9m
2014. £56.2m
2015. £82.5m. (Fourteen month period)
2016. £82.7m
There was a massive leap in wages paid from May 14 .Before suggesting this increase corresponded with TV increases it is worth considering total employee numbers.
2012. 192
2013. 208
2014. 246
2015. 307
2016. 361
The 2015 year shows an increase in number of employees of 25%
The 2016 year a further increase of 20%
Compared to the 2014 (verysuccessful year for us) the number of employees rose by 50% in two years.
Why?
What have the benefits been.?
Surely this is n area to enquire into. | |
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| No money on 17:37 - Oct 27 with 2010 views | E20Jack |
| No money on 17:27 - Oct 27 by NOTRAC |
Whilst it is true that commercial income and gate money are lower than most clubs, a summary of wages for all years in the Premiership shows worrying Trends.
2012. £34.5m
2013. £48.9m
2014. £56.2m
2015. £82.5m. (Fourteen month period)
2016. £82.7m
There was a massive leap in wages paid from May 14 .Before suggesting this increase corresponded with TV increases it is worth considering total employee numbers.
2012. 192
2013. 208
2014. 246
2015. 307
2016. 361
The 2015 year shows an increase in number of employees of 25%
The 2016 year a further increase of 20%
Compared to the 2014 (verysuccessful year for us) the number of employees rose by 50% in two years.
Why?
What have the benefits been.?
Surely this is n area to enquire into. |
It depends what positions those extra employees hold. If they are 15k a year employees then 100 extra of those equals £1.5m p/a and almost negligible in terms of the actual issue of the wage bill.
It could be a case that many of those cover such like as cleaning staff, catering staff as our areas of ownership has increased. So at the training ground, the academy etc.
Although it is certainly an interesting point, I would be shocked if the main hike in wage bill isnt just essentially the players getting ridiculous amounts of money in keeping with the awfully greedy league we find ourselves in - where we are forced to pay this kind of money or fail to put a competitive side together to stay here.
Players have all the power - and all the money, unfortunately. Football clubs have just become a vessel to ensure a select few never have to work again. [Post edited 27 Oct 2017 17:38]
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| No money on 17:40 - Oct 27 with 2001 views | NOTRAC |
Why would you need an extra 100 employees at any level? | |
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| No money on 17:45 - Oct 27 with 1994 views | E20Jack |
| No money on 17:40 - Oct 27 by NOTRAC |
Why would you need an extra 100 employees at any level? |
Absolutely no idea. Again it depends what positions they hold and as a result salaries they are given to see if this is a major reason for our current wage bill.
I have no idea how many people are generally employed by football clubs, was it a case we were operating with under the required number and are now coming into line with elsewhere? | |
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| No money on 17:51 - Oct 27 with 1979 views | NOTRAC |
It most certainly isn't in line with our income.I believe as well that it is very high in comparison with similar Premier league clubs. | |
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| No money on 17:56 - Oct 27 with 1962 views | waynekerr55 |
| No money on 22:24 - Oct 26 by Kilkennyjack |
When we first got to the Prem, many people thought our club was now safe for a lifetime.
Just one season of riches would bring that security.
Wtf has happened after 7 years for us to have no money ?
That would take mismanagement on a mind boggling scale.
It just cant be right mun. |
Even enjoy mind boggling was the inflation busting pay rises that the "by fans for fans" incumbents awarded themselves pre sale. As shaky and others alluded to the cash flow was a significant issue yet the "fans who have the clubs best interest at heart" gave themselves whopping pay rises despite pushing the club towards the edge of a cliff. |  |
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| No money on 18:02 - Oct 27 with 1957 views | monmouth |
You know what? I couldn't care less. Up to them to manage it. If we do a Portsmouth bang goes their strategy to flip the club. They'll struggle to get their required investment return from the 'assets' that we have left and given our wage/turnover ratio, and if we have no money now. |  |
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| No money on 18:05 - Oct 27 with 1950 views | E20Jack |
| No money on 17:51 - Oct 27 by NOTRAC |
It most certainly isn't in line with our income.I believe as well that it is very high in comparison with similar Premier league clubs. |
Southampton employ 300+ staff as of 2016 which rose by 11% from the year before and expect it to continue to rise as they state they look to continue to grow the business both commercially and on field.
That was the first mid range club I looked at that has had a prolonged period at this level. I don't think I am too concerned with that NOTRAC. | |
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| No money on 18:15 - Oct 27 with 1936 views | MoscowJack |
I don't understand why they don't outsource (through employment agencies) most of those positions as relegation would cost us a fortune in redundancies. If these were outsourced, we actually wouldn't even notice those numbers, would we?
In fact, I wonder if we have even more employees who work directly but off the books (via agencies)?!?!?! | |
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| No money on 18:34 - Oct 27 with 1893 views | Garyjack |
| No money on 18:15 - Oct 27 by MoscowJack |
I don't understand why they don't outsource (through employment agencies) most of those positions as relegation would cost us a fortune in redundancies. If these were outsourced, we actually wouldn't even notice those numbers, would we?
In fact, I wonder if we have even more employees who work directly but off the books (via agencies)?!?!?! |
Stewards? in fact all match day staff i would imagine, turn style operators etc. Surely they can't be included in the figures given? If they are then i'd say we are seriously under staffed! |  | | |
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