| London tower block on fire on 23:04 - Jun 17 with 2506 views | Ebo |
This country is shit |  |
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| London tower block on fire on 23:23 - Jun 17 with 2475 views | Loyal |
Where's Gerard, he would have saved them ! |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
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| London tower block on fire on 01:08 - Jun 18 with 2433 views | Gowerjack |
| London tower block on fire on 05:14 - Jun 17 by Lohengrin |
Then your antennae must be awry. I've read nothing on here that would suggest anything of the sort, Nothing. There can't be anybody who has seen these events that feels anything but sorrow at the loss of life. |
Apart from Bluey. |  |
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| London tower block on fire on 02:30 - Jun 18 with 2411 views | DJack |
| London tower block on fire on 22:37 - Jun 17 by oh_tommy_tommy |
I guess if you are from there you know what's going on |
You flit from a decent poster to a complete cőck.
Guess where you are now.
As Cudey intimated the official storey will be based upon the facts discovered and not hyperbole nor personal/political hysteria.
The residents can't tell building ash from human ash and neither can you... so just fūck off you vampire and wait till we get the facts from those that know and care. CŎCK. |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| London tower block on fire on 07:50 - Jun 18 with 2358 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| London tower block on fire on 22:10 - Jun 17 by londonlisa2001 |
I actually think there's are a huge number of things that should be demanded, not least that the police are allowed to carry out a criminal investigation into what happened, from the works specified, done, checked. Were any laws broken. What laws need changing. Rehousing. Support. Inspection of every block in the U.K. Etc etc. Etc.
But I'm honestly not certain why some dont understand why the numbers are so difficult to ascertain. Particularly when it comes to the numbers of people missing. |
In days gone by the news would definitely have said "there could be potentially x amount trapped inside".
Now I understand that the police have the policy of not speculating for obvious reasons but I find it really weird that the media have been so reticent to even mention the elephant in the room, that is that potentially there could be hundreds dead.
Very strange indeed. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| London tower block on fire on 07:52 - Jun 18 with 2354 views | Meraki |
| London tower block on fire on 07:50 - Jun 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
In days gone by the news would definitely have said "there could be potentially x amount trapped inside".
Now I understand that the police have the policy of not speculating for obvious reasons but I find it really weird that the media have been so reticent to even mention the elephant in the room, that is that potentially there could be hundreds dead.
Very strange indeed. |
On BBC4 earlier they said "Dozens are uncounted for" which is a toned down version of 100+ |  | | |
| London tower block on fire on 07:57 - Jun 18 with 2348 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| London tower block on fire on 02:30 - Jun 18 by DJack |
You flit from a decent poster to a complete cőck.
Guess where you are now.
As Cudey intimated the official storey will be based upon the facts discovered and not hyperbole nor personal/political hysteria.
The residents can't tell building ash from human ash and neither can you... so just fūck off you vampire and wait till we get the facts from those that know and care. CŎCK. |
That's a bit unfair mate. Tommy is as concerned as we all are. This is like I said earlier possibly the worst disaster maybe ever to befall this country. I'm still numb almost a week later.
I happen to know OTT very well as we worked in the same place for 21 years and I know his heart is in the right place. People are angry not just at the incident (which is bad enough) but some of the info that's got out and the way the council and the government are handling the aftermath.
This isn't our finest hour. Far from it. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| London tower block on fire on 08:02 - Jun 18 with 2340 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| London tower block on fire on 22:10 - Jun 17 by londonlisa2001 |
I actually think there's are a huge number of things that should be demanded, not least that the police are allowed to carry out a criminal investigation into what happened, from the works specified, done, checked. Were any laws broken. What laws need changing. Rehousing. Support. Inspection of every block in the U.K. Etc etc. Etc.
But I'm honestly not certain why some dont understand why the numbers are so difficult to ascertain. Particularly when it comes to the numbers of people missing. |
Apparently the police are launching a criminal investigation according to one of the newspaper websites yesterday. Which I thought would have been a given from the start really.
The way you said they " should be ALLOWED to " says a great deal. What kind of a country have we become ??? | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| London tower block on fire on 08:05 - Jun 18 with 2336 views | Dr_Winston |
| London tower block on fire on 07:50 - Jun 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
In days gone by the news would definitely have said "there could be potentially x amount trapped inside".
Now I understand that the police have the policy of not speculating for obvious reasons but I find it really weird that the media have been so reticent to even mention the elephant in the room, that is that potentially there could be hundreds dead.
Very strange indeed. |
The biggest problem seems to be that nobody really has any idea how many people were in the building. Using examples likely to lead to similar casualty figures, with a plane crash there 's a passenger manifest. Train crashes and the like there's usually traveller numbers and CCTV. It's a lot harder with a residential block. If very few or no people got out of the higher levels then they can't really find out from survivors how many others were likely to have been in there.
When there's already so much uninformed, clueless shit flying around about it already plus those waiting for another chance to kick off you can understand why the authorities are reluctant to start guessing at casualty figures when they're highly likely to be unsure themselves. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| London tower block on fire on 08:31 - Jun 18 with 2315 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| London tower block on fire on 08:05 - Jun 18 by Dr_Winston |
The biggest problem seems to be that nobody really has any idea how many people were in the building. Using examples likely to lead to similar casualty figures, with a plane crash there 's a passenger manifest. Train crashes and the like there's usually traveller numbers and CCTV. It's a lot harder with a residential block. If very few or no people got out of the higher levels then they can't really find out from survivors how many others were likely to have been in there.
When there's already so much uninformed, clueless shit flying around about it already plus those waiting for another chance to kick off you can understand why the authorities are reluctant to start guessing at casualty figures when they're highly likely to be unsure themselves. |
Absolutely and believe me it would be totally irresponsible for the authorities to speculate.
And you're right, there's no manifest for a block of flats . It's only human nature though to think or assume the worst. I'd love it if everyone had gone out for a walk and the casualties were at a miraculous minimum but even in the day time with everyone awake there would have been still a real difficulty with the fire spreading in less than half an hour to get people from the top floors out alive.
That's pessimistic but also realistic. The fact it happened when the vast majority would have been sleeping just makes this even more certain that we could be talking a frightening number.
I do hope not .I also think we may never know the true number. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| London tower block on fire on 08:43 - Jun 18 with 2308 views | Dr_Winston |
| London tower block on fire on 08:31 - Jun 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
Absolutely and believe me it would be totally irresponsible for the authorities to speculate.
And you're right, there's no manifest for a block of flats . It's only human nature though to think or assume the worst. I'd love it if everyone had gone out for a walk and the casualties were at a miraculous minimum but even in the day time with everyone awake there would have been still a real difficulty with the fire spreading in less than half an hour to get people from the top floors out alive.
That's pessimistic but also realistic. The fact it happened when the vast majority would have been sleeping just makes this even more certain that we could be talking a frightening number.
I do hope not .I also think we may never know the true number. |
We'll probably come pretty close to knowing a true number. Forensic science is pretty good these days and any human remains will almost certainly be identified and counted.
Identifying them all will be much, much harder. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| London tower block on fire on 08:56 - Jun 18 with 2289 views | londonlisa2001 |
| London tower block on fire on 08:02 - Jun 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
Apparently the police are launching a criminal investigation according to one of the newspaper websites yesterday. Which I thought would have been a given from the start really.
The way you said they " should be ALLOWED to " says a great deal. What kind of a country have we become ??? |
To be honest I was referring to them being allowed to by those that are howling for an answer NOW!
They said pretty much immediately they'd carry out a criminal investigation.
The problem they have is what happens if nothing criminal has occurred which is completely possible. They'll be howled at again with people accusing them of a cover up. | | | |
| London tower block on fire on 09:07 - Jun 18 with 2266 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| London tower block on fire on 08:56 - Jun 18 by londonlisa2001 |
To be honest I was referring to them being allowed to by those that are howling for an answer NOW!
They said pretty much immediately they'd carry out a criminal investigation.
The problem they have is what happens if nothing criminal has occurred which is completely possible. They'll be howled at again with people accusing them of a cover up. |
Sorry I misunderstood you. To be fair I expect the residents will give them every cooperation they can. They want the truth out more than anyone.
It seems on the face of it a problem caused by deregulation so if it was a vote in the commons then they can't all be arrested, convicted and thrown in jail.
But then at least new tighter regulations will come in and any similar cladding elsewhere will have to be removed.
If the contractors however used the wrong materials to save money then there will be jail terms. I can't see that though because the building work had to be signed off by someone . We will just have to wait and see. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| London tower block on fire on 09:08 - Jun 18 with 2261 views | londonlisa2001 |
| London tower block on fire on 08:05 - Jun 18 by Dr_Winston |
The biggest problem seems to be that nobody really has any idea how many people were in the building. Using examples likely to lead to similar casualty figures, with a plane crash there 's a passenger manifest. Train crashes and the like there's usually traveller numbers and CCTV. It's a lot harder with a residential block. If very few or no people got out of the higher levels then they can't really find out from survivors how many others were likely to have been in there.
When there's already so much uninformed, clueless shit flying around about it already plus those waiting for another chance to kick off you can understand why the authorities are reluctant to start guessing at casualty figures when they're highly likely to be unsure themselves. |
They also have the additional difficulties of there being uncertainty about numbers living in the flats (whether temporarily or permanently), and also those that will say people are missing in the flats when they're not. Trying to work out people who were NOT there will be an absolute nightmare. | | | |
| London tower block on fire on 09:13 - Jun 18 with 2251 views | felixstowe_jack |
Can't we all wait for the public enquiry before trying to blame everyone.
Nobody knows if building and fire regulations were followed.
Nobody knows who should responsible overall, the governments of the last 25 years, the mayors of London for the last 25 years, the local Council and councillors. | |
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| London tower block on fire on 09:14 - Jun 18 with 2251 views | Dr_Winston |
| London tower block on fire on 09:08 - Jun 18 by londonlisa2001 |
They also have the additional difficulties of there being uncertainty about numbers living in the flats (whether temporarily or permanently), and also those that will say people are missing in the flats when they're not. Trying to work out people who were NOT there will be an absolute nightmare. |
Absolutely.
It's very much a "damned if they do, damned if they don't situation", which appears to be the default setting for a lot of the emergency services in London. Watching that "Policing London" series has been an eye opener. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| London tower block on fire on 09:16 - Jun 18 with 2245 views | londonlisa2001 |
| London tower block on fire on 09:07 - Jun 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
Sorry I misunderstood you. To be fair I expect the residents will give them every cooperation they can. They want the truth out more than anyone.
It seems on the face of it a problem caused by deregulation so if it was a vote in the commons then they can't all be arrested, convicted and thrown in jail.
But then at least new tighter regulations will come in and any similar cladding elsewhere will have to be removed.
If the contractors however used the wrong materials to save money then there will be jail terms. I can't see that though because the building work had to be signed off by someone . We will just have to wait and see. |
Yes, the residents absolutely will.
The thing that these sorts of cases makes you realise though is that there are truly good people out there, but some, unfortunately, that really don't fall into that category.
I'm not sure whether it's deregulation as such - it seems that there was regulation, but that it is nowhere near tight enough. | | | |
| London tower block on fire on 11:07 - Jun 18 with 2175 views | ploppy |
| London tower block on fire on 09:07 - Jun 18 by Brynmill_Jack |
Sorry I misunderstood you. To be fair I expect the residents will give them every cooperation they can. They want the truth out more than anyone.
It seems on the face of it a problem caused by deregulation so if it was a vote in the commons then they can't all be arrested, convicted and thrown in jail.
But then at least new tighter regulations will come in and any similar cladding elsewhere will have to be removed.
If the contractors however used the wrong materials to save money then there will be jail terms. I can't see that though because the building work had to be signed off by someone . We will just have to wait and see. |
But then at least new tighter regulations will come in and any similar cladding elsewhere will have to be removed.
Well, that depends. I'm no expert so I don't know if new tighter regulation would require it to be applied retrospectively. Here's an example - again, I'm not an expert but I believe this to be the case. Your consumer unit (fuse box), as of 2016 or thereabouts, has to be metal. That's because if there's a fault in the wiring in the consumer unit resulting in a fire, you don't want the thing that encloses it to be plastic. Well, no sh!t Sherlock. But, it doesn't mean everyone's existing plastic consumer unit has to be replaced. There may be different regulations for multiple occupancy buildings - don't know.
Whether the contractors are culpable depends whether the cladding used (if that turns out to be one of the issues) was within spec at the time. If so, other arguments about cost savings won't come into it. | | | |
| London tower block on fire on 11:27 - Jun 18 with 2152 views | exiledclaseboy |
Labour really pushing the call to requisition empty properties in the area on th Sunday politics shows this morning.
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has called for the government to consider emergency legislation to ensure homes can be requisitioned to house the families made homeless by the Grenfell Tower fire.
Speaking on Sky’s Ridge on Sunday, McDonnell said that councils already had the power to requisition property, using compulsory purchase orders, to find places for people to live. Last week Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, suggested these powers should be used in Kensington following the fire tragedy.
But when it was put to McDonnell that this process could take time, he said parliament could legislate to speed things up. He told the programme:
“In emergency measures, as we saw in wartime periods as well, you can requisition properties. You will need powers to do it. We have got those powers.
“If necessary, I would have convened parliament immediately to, if necessary, push more legislation through within 24 hours, if that was necessary. We cannot be in a situation where we have people who have lost their homes struggling to find alternative accommodation and we have properties standing empty."
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn renewed his call to requisition empty homes in Kensington and Chelsea to house victims of the blaze.
“There are a large number of deliberately kept vacant flats and properties all over London. It’s called ‘land banking’. People with a lot of money, buy a house, buy a flat, keep it empty”.
“Occupy it, compulsory purchase it, requisition it. There’s a lot of things you can do,” he told Peston on Sunday. “Can’t we as a society just think, all of us.
He added you “have to bring all assets to the table” in an emergency. |  |
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| London tower block on fire on 11:38 - Jun 18 with 2137 views | swanforthemoney |
My main point is that even before the public equiry is complete, its necessary to evacuate Tower blocks where this flammable (PE) cladding has been put on the outside and where there is no sprinkler system.
The evidence is there from the Melbourne fire, the Southampton fire and the other London fire a while ago, and now this fire. If you are in a tall tower with this flammable cladding and no sprinklers you are in a death trap.
If I was living in one I would either leave, or mobilise the other residents to rip this cladding off. read this article, if you can bring yourself to read the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/warnings-deathtrap-high-rise-building |  |
| I stand in the North Stand
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| London tower block on fire on 15:51 - Jun 18 with 2069 views | Ebo |
I'm lost for words and disgusted
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| London tower block on fire on 16:16 - Jun 18 with 2041 views | ploppy |
| London tower block on fire on 15:51 - Jun 18 by Ebo |
I'm lost for words and disgusted
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As a LibDem, strange that she's defending TM. | | | |
| London tower block on fire on 16:18 - Jun 18 with 2034 views | exiledclaseboy |
| London tower block on fire on 16:16 - Jun 18 by ploppy |
As a LibDem, strange that she's defending TM. |
She only joined the LibDems over Brexit. She's a Tory by nature. | |
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| London tower block on fire on 17:10 - Jun 18 with 1990 views | ploppy |
| London tower block on fire on 16:18 - Jun 18 by exiledclaseboy |
She only joined the LibDems over Brexit. She's a Tory by nature. |
Yeah, I knew that. I also knew that you wouldn't be able to resist. | | | |
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