| May and Juncker 00:46 - May 1 with 28472 views | FDC |
Pretty extraordinary story in German press. (Long 30 tweet thread, click on tweet below and scroll down)
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| May and Juncker on 14:15 - May 4 with 2337 views | Hunterhoop |
| May and Juncker on 14:05 - May 4 by jonno |
Exactly how often has the EU "reformed" at the UK's suggestion over the last ten years? |
Little, to date. Although allowing to stay in the club without signing up to the single currency, was a big change to their intended plan (thankfully!).
I just think that a macro political and economic level, reform was, and still remains inevitable. I simply don't think the EU will exist in anything like it's current shape in 20-30 years. We could have influenced this change, for the UK's benefit, and avoided a shock to our economy (which will only happen once Brexit is complete), by being inside the tent pissing out.
I'm in an unusually nuanced position. I thoroughly dislike the EU. It's not democratic, it's almost certainly crooked, and it's pushed a terrible idea in the single currency. However, I'm a big believer in Europe, especially "a strong and stable" Europe, social liberalism, human rights, and a focus on improving living standards of all citizens. "Remaining", and playing a part in the inevitable reform of the EU, would have given us a chance to get the best of all worlds over the next 20-30 years.
But we're all entitled to different opinions. |  | | |
| May and Juncker on 16:11 - May 4 with 2239 views | TacticalR |
@Hunterhoop 'I'm a big believer in Europe, especially "a strong and stable" Europe, social liberalism, human rights, and a focus on improving living standards of all citizens.'
But isn't the reason that we are seeing the rise of right-wing parties (and politicians like Trump and May playing with nationalist fire) precisely because capitalism is in a deep crisis and can no longer offer the things that you mentioned?
(I'm not trying to catch you out, more trying to repose the way you put things, and explain how we have got to where we have got to.) |  |
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| May and Juncker on 16:36 - May 4 with 2204 views | Hunterhoop |
| May and Juncker on 16:11 - May 4 by TacticalR |
@Hunterhoop 'I'm a big believer in Europe, especially "a strong and stable" Europe, social liberalism, human rights, and a focus on improving living standards of all citizens.'
But isn't the reason that we are seeing the rise of right-wing parties (and politicians like Trump and May playing with nationalist fire) precisely because capitalism is in a deep crisis and can no longer offer the things that you mentioned?
(I'm not trying to catch you out, more trying to repose the way you put things, and explain how we have got to where we have got to.) |
We're seeing those things because capitalism (or globalism and neoliberalism, to be more exact) are perceived to be no longer able to offer them.
But, instead of a radical pendulum shift towards nationalistic, authoritarian, illiberal, govt, what was need (in my view), is a more considered shift away from neoliberalism and "pure" globalism, towards social liberalism and devolution within a globalised world.
You can't undo social connectivity, ease of travel, ease of communication, globalised trade links, economies, education, cross country scientific developments, etc.
You can't go back in time.
What is needed, in my view, is to ensure that in a globally connected and integrated world, the minority of workers who lose out locally are supported; rebalancing of wealth distribution takes place; opportunities for social mobility and improved standards of living continue; devolution of power to local and regional organisations continue. Ultimately, we just need to ensure people aren't left behind in a globalised, liberal world or suffer badly as a result of one. This is the error of the last 20 years. The cost for worldwide "growth" and improvement in living standards has been too high for the minority who did suffer. And the reason? Those who benefitted the most lost sight of the "Social Liberalism" strand John Stuart Mills espoused, in their pursuit of a "pure" liberal world. But this doesn't mean liberalism and globalisation are bad. I don't believe they are. They just haven't been implemented and guided as well as they should have by governing parties in the western world. They have let neoliberals in Finance and Big Business have too much power and influence.
But the answer is not, never will be, nationalistic, short sighted, narrow minded, authoritarian government.
Basically, liberalism and globalisation have, post WWII been proven to be good for humans, across the world. It's has improved far more lives than it has harmed. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, in my opinion. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 17:18 - May 4 with 2160 views | easthertsr |
The UK voted to leave an economic and political union. It then decided in it's infinite wisdom to leave in the 'hardest ' manner possible. It then expects the union to play ball and to comply with all it's wishes about brexit. When they don't, all hell breaks loose and Mrs. May says that they are trying to interfere with the​ Election. What planet are these people on? How did they expect the EU to react? It is a national embarrassment how the Tories are approaching this. Let's demonise the 'johnny foreigners' A classic play from the Trump playbook!! |  | | |
| May and Juncker on 18:22 - May 4 with 2096 views | TacticalR |
| May and Juncker on 10:05 - May 1 by derbyhoop |
How many people really have any idea what is going on in the EU in the past, now or the future plans?
My guess would be that the answer is very close to zero. Journalists like BBC's Katya Adler and diplomats like the recently departed Ivan Rogers (former UK ambassador to the EU) would be expected to know considerable details but I am far from convinced there are many people in the government have any real grasp of the issues likely to come up over the next 23 months. |
What Rogers was saying in December 2016 before resigning:
'Rogers spoke to Cameron. His biggest fear was that the biggest issue is not hard or soft Brexit, but whether we have an orderly or a disorderly Brexit'
Former British ambassador reportedly warned that Theresa May was not doing enough to prepare the UK in the event of a 'disorderly' departure from the EU
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sir-ivan-rogers-brexit-secret-tal
What Rogers said in February 2017 after resigning:
'Sir Ivan Rogers, who resigned in January complaining of the UK government’s "ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking" and warning it might take 10 years to reach a deal, said leaving the EU without an agreement would be catastrophic because the UK would be in "a legal void".'
'Rogers said he expected "quite ferocious" legal disputes over the size of the UK’s exit bill and what exactly it was based on.'
Brexit talks could get 'gory, bitter and twisted', says former ambassador
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/22/brexit-talks-could-get-gory-bit | |
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| May and Juncker on 18:43 - May 4 with 2085 views | 18StoneOfHoop |
| May and Juncker on 18:22 - May 4 by TacticalR |
What Rogers was saying in December 2016 before resigning:
'Rogers spoke to Cameron. His biggest fear was that the biggest issue is not hard or soft Brexit, but whether we have an orderly or a disorderly Brexit'
Former British ambassador reportedly warned that Theresa May was not doing enough to prepare the UK in the event of a 'disorderly' departure from the EU
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sir-ivan-rogers-brexit-secret-tal
What Rogers said in February 2017 after resigning:
'Sir Ivan Rogers, who resigned in January complaining of the UK government’s "ill-founded arguments and muddled thinking" and warning it might take 10 years to reach a deal, said leaving the EU without an agreement would be catastrophic because the UK would be in "a legal void".'
'Rogers said he expected "quite ferocious" legal disputes over the size of the UK’s exit bill and what exactly it was based on.'
Brexit talks could get 'gory, bitter and twisted', says former ambassador
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/22/brexit-talks-could-get-gory-bit |
'Taking back control' ?
MY BIG FAT HAIRY R'S! |  |
| 'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please. |
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| May and Juncker on 09:31 - May 5 with 1954 views | qprphil |
I just don't get why people blame the Tories for what's going on, I thought it was a vote from everybody to leave the European Union. Unless of course it was only Tory people that voted. As someone that owned his own business, and sat with all types around a table, you don't always get what you want, it can often be a game of bluff, there will be lots of talk from the media coming out which won't be true, just guess work. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 10:16 - May 5 with 1930 views | ElHoop |
Well, UKIP have been wiped out in the local council elections which was the main point of the referendum I think. Liberals aren't getting anywhere for not forgetting the last 'war' so domestically we seem to be moving forwards from the EU membership being a big issue.
The EU can go f*ck itself. Its incompetence in managing the Eurozone and inability to give us even a modest concession despite us being outside the Eurozone led to us leaving in the first place - so why should we be surprised at them talking more bollocks? |  | | |
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| May and Juncker on 11:10 - May 5 with 1873 views | TacticalR |
| May and Juncker on 09:31 - May 5 by qprphil |
I just don't get why people blame the Tories for what's going on, I thought it was a vote from everybody to leave the European Union. Unless of course it was only Tory people that voted. As someone that owned his own business, and sat with all types around a table, you don't always get what you want, it can often be a game of bluff, there will be lots of talk from the media coming out which won't be true, just guess work. |
If you read Tim Shipman's All Out War: The Full Story of How Brexit Sank Britain’s Political Class it becomes crystal clear that this was very much a Tory affair with both the official anti and pro campaigns led by Tories (although there is also some interesting stuff in there about Corbyn's long-standing hostility to the EU). There is a new edition out in June:
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| May and Juncker on 11:15 - May 5 with 1877 views | Metallica_Hoop |
| May and Juncker on 11:10 - May 5 by TacticalR |
If you read Tim Shipman's All Out War: The Full Story of How Brexit Sank Britain’s Political Class it becomes crystal clear that this was very much a Tory affair with both the official anti and pro campaigns led by Tories (although there is also some interesting stuff in there about Corbyn's long-standing hostility to the EU). There is a new edition out in June:
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That looks good.
The cover alone makes me want to read it. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| May and Juncker on 15:51 - May 5 with 1704 views | kensalriser |
Even as an ardent remainer I have to say that Juncker is a bit of a tit. |  |
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| May and Juncker on 16:10 - May 5 with 1675 views | Brightonhoop |
Cant abide Junker, but with Brexit English was always going to fall away as the favoured EU language. |  | | |
| May and Juncker on 16:14 - May 5 with 1662 views | distortR |
| May and Juncker on 15:51 - May 5 by kensalriser |
Even as an ardent remainer I have to say that Juncker is a bit of a tit. |
He's up there with the best of them, isn't he? Let's not even mention shady tax dealings in the duchy.
His role in the current negotiations is an interesting one, as he does not have direct constituents whose own economic interests may temper his own hard-line trendencies.
May v juncker, tories v eu, Trump v clinton, macron v le pen, should be boom time for anarchists. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 16:15 - May 5 with 1662 views | ElHoop |
| May and Juncker on 16:10 - May 5 by Brightonhoop |
Cant abide Junker, but with Brexit English was always going to fall away as the favoured EU language. |
So it's not the global language any more then?
Maybe it helps if you look at the world through the bottom of Juncker's glass. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 16:29 - May 5 with 1630 views | TacticalR |
Juncker is just 'doing a May' (nationalism to get people behind the elites) - it's not in our interest to get sucked into their squabbles.
English is the global language because the empire of the 19th century (Britain) and the empire of the 20th century (United States) used English.
It's been said that when foreigners (e.g. French and Germans) speak to other using English, they don't really use English but Globish (made up of a subset of roughly 1500-3000 words of English).
English could actually serve a useful role in Europe as a 'neutral' language (i.e. not the language of any of the major EU powers). [Post edited 5 May 2017 16:30]
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| May and Juncker on 19:41 - May 5 with 1550 views | Brightonhoop |
| May and Juncker on 16:15 - May 5 by ElHoop |
So it's not the global language any more then?
Maybe it helps if you look at the world through the bottom of Juncker's glass. |
Where in any of that did I say, or any article so far relating to the English Language within the EU, state Gobal?? Jesus wept. Myopic. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 22:04 - May 5 with 1463 views | ElHoop |
| May and Juncker on 19:41 - May 5 by Brightonhoop |
Where in any of that did I say, or any article so far relating to the English Language within the EU, state Gobal?? Jesus wept. Myopic. |
Do you actually have a clue about what you are saying?
I might well be a bit thick, but what about you? I mean, why would anyone assume that English isn't going to be spoken throughout Europe just because we're not part of some vague economic grouping? | | | |
| May and Juncker on 22:19 - May 5 with 1449 views | Brightonhoop |
| May and Juncker on 22:04 - May 5 by ElHoop |
Do you actually have a clue about what you are saying?
I might well be a bit thick, but what about you? I mean, why would anyone assume that English isn't going to be spoken throughout Europe just because we're not part of some vague economic grouping? |
The discussion was about the relevance of our Language to an economic group we're leaving. Why would they not promote the language of one of their own over ours?
There was no context of Global use of English until you introduced it. But carry on. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 22:28 - May 5 with 1444 views | ElHoop |
| May and Juncker on 22:19 - May 5 by Brightonhoop |
The discussion was about the relevance of our Language to an economic group we're leaving. Why would they not promote the language of one of their own over ours?
There was no context of Global use of English until you introduced it. But carry on. |
Why? Because they pretty much all speak English, and they pretty much don't speak French, but don't worry yourself about trivialities such as reality. | | | |
| May and Juncker on 22:40 - May 5 with 1433 views | Brightonhoop |
| May and Juncker on 22:28 - May 5 by ElHoop |
Why? Because they pretty much all speak English, and they pretty much don't speak French, but don't worry yourself about trivialities such as reality. |
Well clearly that is changing because we are leaving the Club. Whilst English might be a common language amongst them now it's not going to remain that way. The UK in the EU including its language will become irrevelant. It's what the 52% voted for, and that's not a barb but reality.
I dont understand your problem with that. And have no idea what you are arguing for. But carry on. I'm out on this one.... | | | |
| May and Juncker on 22:51 - May 5 with 1416 views | derbyhoop |
| May and Juncker on 15:51 - May 5 by kensalriser |
Even as an ardent remainer I have to say that Juncker is a bit of a tit. |
It was a stupid claim by Juncker. However, the main man for the EU27 is not Juncker but Barnier, a seasoned negotiator.
Assuming Macron wins in France on Sunday the UK is going to find they will be dealing with an EU that is going to play hardball. I don't think the UK has enough politicians or trade negotiators with the level of experience required to get "the best deal for Britain". |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| May and Juncker on 00:28 - May 6 with 1366 views | FDC |
Assuming Macron wins in France on Sunday
I'm not assuming anything of the sort... it's Brexit / Trump all over again. These liberal centrists are going to get us all killed.... [Post edited 6 May 2017 0:30]
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| May and Juncker on 08:13 - May 6 with 1307 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| May and Juncker on 22:40 - May 5 by Brightonhoop |
Well clearly that is changing because we are leaving the Club. Whilst English might be a common language amongst them now it's not going to remain that way. The UK in the EU including its language will become irrevelant. It's what the 52% voted for, and that's not a barb but reality.
I dont understand your problem with that. And have no idea what you are arguing for. But carry on. I'm out on this one.... |
Are they going to outlaw it have a directive within the EU or sumink and force the rest of the world to only converse in french or some new EU language - otherwise how will a language used globally become irrelevant. [Post edited 6 May 2017 8:17]
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| May and Juncker on 08:28 - May 6 with 1297 views | ElHoop |
| May and Juncker on 08:13 - May 6 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Are they going to outlaw it have a directive within the EU or sumink and force the rest of the world to only converse in french or some new EU language - otherwise how will a language used globally become irrelevant. [Post edited 6 May 2017 8:17]
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That's all that I was trying to say and I thought that it was pretty much what I did say. Anyhow it doesn't matter. Peut etre nous parlons en francais maintenant Brightonhoop? | | | |
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