| EU Referendum 19:21 - Jan 23 with 3330 views | derbyhoop |
After this morning's speech:-
Cameron did not spell out what powers he would like to see the UK take back as part of a new settlement, or what would happen if the negotiations did not go his way.
What powers should we try to bring back to the UK? |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| EU Referendum on 13:04 - Jan 24 with 647 views | WarfieldHoop |
I think the main point people get rattled by is the lack of power we have on our own home affairs and law and order, and to me at least, those are the main areas that I would like to see reformed. We have a option of 130 'opt outs' of EU laws relating to justice but we can't pick and choose between which ones we want. As I understand it we can opt out of the lot and then negotiate to opt back in to certain areas which all sounds drawn out, complicated and could well be a waste of time imo. If Cameron can get somewhere to reforming the EU then he will do well but it's going to be a hell of a task to do in a fairly short amount of time, particularly when much of Europe are concentrating on the economy.
However, this is as much a political point scorer as it is a referendum to appease the electorate. Cameron doesn't want to leave the EU and I doubt that he really wants a referendum, but if he didn't announce one then he risks loosing many of his voters to UKIP in the next election, advantage Labour. This way he kills two birds with one stone. He knocks back UKIP and he gains popularity. Although it's clear that Cameron will go all out to stay in.
The public have been crying out to successive governments since Major for a referendum on membership and now they are getting it (sort of). The Tories so far are the only party going into the next election with a referendum policy. The Lib-Dems have made it clear that they won't support one (although backtracking for them is practically a party policy so who knows) and Labour have been pretty quiet on it so far but now Miliband has stated that he doesn't support it.
Vote Conservative, get a referendum. Vote otherwise, you don't.
Advantage Cameron. |  | | |
| EU Referendum on 13:06 - Jan 24 with 645 views | TheBlob |
| EU Referendum on 21:46 - Jan 23 by sexton |
Indeed. There is a widespread misunderstanding that every European institution is a body of the EU.
UEFA isn't, and neither is the Eurovision Song Contest. |
But it would be just like UEFA to exclude British clubs from entering the Champions and Europa Leagues.Kind of stroke Platini would pull. |  |
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| EU Referendum on 13:33 - Jan 24 with 623 views | R_from_afar |
I wonder if the Spanish feel the same about Brits going to Spain to retire as so many Brits do about people from eastern Europe coming to our country to live.
Cameron is letting a group of Tory MPs who still think it's 1952 cloud his thinking, in so many areas of policy, with potentially dangerous consequences.
Not in my name.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| EU Referendum on 13:36 - Jan 24 with 622 views | Metallica_Hoop |
| EU Referendum on 13:06 - Jan 24 by TheBlob |
But it would be just like UEFA to exclude British clubs from entering the Champions and Europa Leagues.Kind of stroke Platini would pull. |
They can't even if they wanted to, Turkey and Israel and the Baltics/Russki's would have to go too. All that money they would lose, no chance. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| EU Referendum on 13:42 - Jan 24 with 616 views | RoundhayRanger |
I don't see this as any sort of masterstroke by Cameron. He's only pandering to his own party base. It's going to take some sort of miracle for the Tories to get a second term, so its a moot point anyway. | | | |
| EU Referendum on 13:56 - Jan 24 with 602 views | pomanjou |
| EU Referendum on 13:42 - Jan 24 by RoundhayRanger |
I don't see this as any sort of masterstroke by Cameron. He's only pandering to his own party base. It's going to take some sort of miracle for the Tories to get a second term, so its a moot point anyway. |
If the replacement is going to be Milliband and his merry band who left the cupboard bare on exit we should join the EU fully and absolutely for our own safety. |  |
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| EU Referendum on 14:31 - Jan 24 with 590 views | stansleftfoot |
The unintended consequences of Politicians actions always catch them out. Cameron has no idea how this is going to end up.
Cameron has come up with a idea that he believes will allow a separation from the Coalition and boost his take of the vote in the next election.
The unintended consequence is that he now faces three other parties who can take any position they like as nothing has happened as yet. he's effectively started the Election now, with the country on the slide.
UKIP say out completely and a full referendum....my guess that it will probably become the majority view as the next two years progresses.
Liberal Dems stand fully against and will therefore block any legislation changes in the next two years, even a coalition partners.
New Labour....well! Who knows 'cos they won't say.
As Europe and the UK continues in recession with growth sitting just below inflation Cameron will have created the idea he is being proactive in dealing with what exactly? education, the nhs, the recession, the north south divide, nothing, what he's looking after is his career and rebalancing the Tory party. He has consigned the UK to uncertainty, zero foreign investment, zero uk investment, zero job growth, zero growth.
This is an act of gross selfishness and self interest....The idea that the UK can be party to the EU's open market and find it's own commercial advantages is absurd and cannot be achieved. Why and how could it be a successful gambit?
The Common Fishing Policy is the exemplar of politicians running markets....No Fish, No Jobs, Corruption and damage to the environment.....30 years of a market being run by politicians, not just Cameron, all of them....
We have already have our own Parliament and all the rights we need, we are also an island. So all we need is politicians and civil servants who can run a country to a business plan that looks further into the future than two years and the next election. | | | |
| EU Referendum on 15:16 - Jan 24 with 577 views | baz_qpr |
| EU Referendum on 11:10 - Jan 24 by stevec |
The EU has, in this country, created a working class ghetto of unemployment for 2.5+ million predominantly white but also afro caribbean long term citizens, ie the offspring of those invited to this country back in the late 1950's. We have turned our backs on those people in return for an influx of cheap EU labour that was never needed (unlike the immigration of the 50's which was needed).
A country, financially, exists like a company. If the Company has the right amount of employees, the company makes money, the employees are secure in their jobs, everybody is happy. If however, you add staff that are not needed, the Company begins to lose money and suddenly, not just the new staff, but all the employees are fearful of their jobs. Too many employees can take the whole Company down, and that is exactly what is happening to this country.
Noticeable on BBC TV and radio they purposely faffed around the edges debating fisheries and the like when the real issue, immigration, was almost totally avoided.
Cameron has been very clever, giving his party its only real chance of getting elected in 2015 but if he does get in then I suspect he will ask for and accept a few minor concessions that will not make a blind bit of difference to the real problem this country is facing. |
Err that was Thatchers policy, it is the liberal economic view that you need to have a level of unemployment in order to supress wage inflation |  | | |
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| EU Referendum on 19:09 - Jan 24 with 552 views | derbyhoop |
| EU Referendum on 14:31 - Jan 24 by stansleftfoot |
The unintended consequences of Politicians actions always catch them out. Cameron has no idea how this is going to end up.
Cameron has come up with a idea that he believes will allow a separation from the Coalition and boost his take of the vote in the next election.
The unintended consequence is that he now faces three other parties who can take any position they like as nothing has happened as yet. he's effectively started the Election now, with the country on the slide.
UKIP say out completely and a full referendum....my guess that it will probably become the majority view as the next two years progresses.
Liberal Dems stand fully against and will therefore block any legislation changes in the next two years, even a coalition partners.
New Labour....well! Who knows 'cos they won't say.
As Europe and the UK continues in recession with growth sitting just below inflation Cameron will have created the idea he is being proactive in dealing with what exactly? education, the nhs, the recession, the north south divide, nothing, what he's looking after is his career and rebalancing the Tory party. He has consigned the UK to uncertainty, zero foreign investment, zero uk investment, zero job growth, zero growth.
This is an act of gross selfishness and self interest....The idea that the UK can be party to the EU's open market and find it's own commercial advantages is absurd and cannot be achieved. Why and how could it be a successful gambit?
The Common Fishing Policy is the exemplar of politicians running markets....No Fish, No Jobs, Corruption and damage to the environment.....30 years of a market being run by politicians, not just Cameron, all of them....
We have already have our own Parliament and all the rights we need, we are also an island. So all we need is politicians and civil servants who can run a country to a business plan that looks further into the future than two years and the next election. |
I think the Zero investment was overdramatic. But uncertainty isn't helpful. About 20 years ago, Toyota built their major manufacturing plant for the UK about 2 miles from my house. It employs around 5000 people. One of the selling points in encouraging them to come was the UK's full membership of the EU. If that is in doubt, they could decide to concentrate future investment in their other factories in Portugal, France or Poland.
P.S. The local Tory MP is heavily in favour of EU withdrawal. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| EU Referendum on 20:47 - Jan 24 with 524 views | highlandbill |
| EU Referendum on 21:15 - Jan 23 by Charlie1 |
What's so wrong with the current arrangement? It's not perfect but does dipping our toes help us? I'm not sure out is such a good idea. Heart out head in. |
Exactly! My god, Europe really flushes out all the xenophobes who lurk in England. There is a an underlying mistrust and distaste of foreigners. The EU has been hugely beneficial for the UK and the bottom line is that it has stopped warring between European countries.
Scotland is due to have an independence referendum next year. Its already touch and go as to whether there will be a yes vote. A move to leave Europe is guaranteed to increase the yes vote as Scots like being in Europe. What attraction does the Union hold when English people elect Tory governments who seek to hammer the less well off and pour gold into the pockets of those who are already well taken care off. Little Englanders beware! You may find yourselves on the fringe of the continent and well and truly in the pocket of Uncle Sam! |  |
| At my age I should not be doing this! |
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| EU Referendum on 22:43 - Jan 24 with 500 views | essextaxiboy |
| EU Referendum on 20:47 - Jan 24 by highlandbill |
Exactly! My god, Europe really flushes out all the xenophobes who lurk in England. There is a an underlying mistrust and distaste of foreigners. The EU has been hugely beneficial for the UK and the bottom line is that it has stopped warring between European countries.
Scotland is due to have an independence referendum next year. Its already touch and go as to whether there will be a yes vote. A move to leave Europe is guaranteed to increase the yes vote as Scots like being in Europe. What attraction does the Union hold when English people elect Tory governments who seek to hammer the less well off and pour gold into the pockets of those who are already well taken care off. Little Englanders beware! You may find yourselves on the fringe of the continent and well and truly in the pocket of Uncle Sam! |
I think you will find London is one of the most diverse and racially tolerant citys in the world .
What sticks in the craw of a lot of English (if you insist on making the distinction) is that we are net contributors to Europe paying for new road systems and public transport networks in countries which have no idea how to control their budgets.
We we are supposed to be grateful when we are granted some of our own money back as long as we spend it on what we are told to .
We signed up to a free trade agreement , a "common market" nothing more .
If Scotland votes for independence it is not guaranteed that they will be accepted into Europe anyway .
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| EU Referendum on 22:50 - Jan 24 with 489 views | hoopstilidie |
| EU Referendum on 20:47 - Jan 24 by highlandbill |
Exactly! My god, Europe really flushes out all the xenophobes who lurk in England. There is a an underlying mistrust and distaste of foreigners. The EU has been hugely beneficial for the UK and the bottom line is that it has stopped warring between European countries.
Scotland is due to have an independence referendum next year. Its already touch and go as to whether there will be a yes vote. A move to leave Europe is guaranteed to increase the yes vote as Scots like being in Europe. What attraction does the Union hold when English people elect Tory governments who seek to hammer the less well off and pour gold into the pockets of those who are already well taken care off. Little Englanders beware! You may find yourselves on the fringe of the continent and well and truly in the pocket of Uncle Sam! |
"My god, Europe really flushes out all the xenophobes who lurk in England."
100% claptrap. |  |
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| EU Referendum on 23:06 - Jan 24 with 480 views | CiderwithRsie |
I'm the most pro-European person that I know, so I'm tempted to stick my head over the parapet on this one, but what really bugs me is how little any of us really know about this. Look back at the OP - how many of us [and I'll admit I include myself] can say:-
1. what exactly are the powers the EU has
2. which ones do we want back
3. what has the EU done in those areas that we didn't like
4. what we would do differently
5. could we actually do it single-handed anyway
That's even before you get onto the guesswork of just how things would work out if we left.
Put it another way. At any general election there's a lot of arguments about different party policies, economic priorities etc. E.g. we know that Labour wants slower deficit reduction. At Euro elections, who knows what any party's policy is on whatever it is the EU is up to next? Can anyone here tell me the policy of any British party about the future of the Common Fisheries Policy, because I've not got a scooby. But I know that a lot of people, including environmental charities and many British fishermen think the CFP is barking - so did our government support it? Are we trying to get it changed? If not why not? If we are, what to? And what exactly is the EU up to next - there must be something the bureaucrats want to implement, we're always told they are churning out red tape by the yard every second, wtf is it? Maybe its even a good idea, or if its lousy can we stop it? Who knows?
How the eff can any of us make a sensible decision if all we have to go on is a load of blatant lies about straight bananas on one hand and the likes of Heseltine on the other saying "ooh don't change anything or it will all go horribly wrong". | | | |
| EU Referendum on 23:12 - Jan 24 with 478 views | CiderwithRsie |
| EU Referendum on 22:50 - Jan 24 by hoopstilidie |
"My god, Europe really flushes out all the xenophobes who lurk in England."
100% claptrap. |
Actually I think an out vote by the UK is guaranteed to swing the independence vote for the SNP. Its not claptrap to say the Scots like being in the EU, its a statement of the bleeding obvious if you speak to any Scot. And if they find that they are simply outvoted by an anti-EU English vote then you have the Thatcher situation [i.e. no-one in Scotland ever voted for her but she won every election she fought] all over agian, which is exactly how the SNP went from a minority interest of a few fringe loons to being the main party up there.
All perfectly democratic and I'm sure plenty of people will say "stuff the Eu and the Scots at the same time". But its a perfectly fair point to suggest an out vote is the end of the UK. | | | |
| EU Referendum on 23:23 - Jan 24 with 474 views | derbyhoop |
| EU Referendum on 22:50 - Jan 24 by hoopstilidie |
"My god, Europe really flushes out all the xenophobes who lurk in England."
100% claptrap. |
The British
drive their German cars to Irish bars, where they drink Dutch or Belgian beer. On the way home, they call for a Turkish kebab, an Indian or Chinese takeaway. Back home, they sit on Swedish furniture to watch US programmes on Japanese televisions. But they don't like any of that foreign stuff. | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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