| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread 23:10 - Jun 25 with 40929 views | Ned_Kennedys |
We’ve had three match threads from a Southgate fan and three terrible England performances so surely it’s time to have one from a Southgate critic?
Walker switched to LB, TAA in at right back, Bellingham dropped back next to Rice, Foden central, Gordon on the left and Palmer on the right. Come on Gareth: you can do it! [Post edited 27 Jun 15:28]
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:03 - Jul 1 with 2185 views | SydneyRs |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 03:43 - Jul 1 by numptydumpty |
England in tournament football is a hard watch.
But whatever people think
World Cup 2018 Semi Finals
Euros 2020 Final
World Cup 2022 Quarter Finals
Euros 2024 Quarter Finals (Minimum)
Better than
Hodgson
Allardyce
Mclaren
Capello
Erickson
Keegan
Taylor
Greenwood
Revie
Only ones felt done better
Venables
Ramsey
Similar to
Robson
My view about England, it's the fans that have ALWAYS been the PROBLEM
We expect to win every tournament playing stunning football
We have the premier league where we watch some amazing football but this is over 40 odd games and the players all know each other's styles well and play with all fantastic players.
What other countries have done better than this, but we always expect incredible football and to win the tournament.
The ENGLAND FANS are and always have been the problem.
We are not going to win this tournament but if we do and everyone not happy with the style, Southgate will still get the CRAP
Absolute joke are England fans
For craps sake - maybe fans could consider the pressure these fans put on these young men and their manager has always meant our players have always crumbled under the pressure.
Support your country, your players and your manager.
England fans always have been an embarrassment |
I don't buy this stuff about the fans at all.
Sorry, but who goes into every tournament expecting to win when the country has only won one thing ever and that was nearly 60 years ago? England fans are very passionate and desperate to see some success, so go in with hope and by and large get right behind the team every time. That isn't the same as expecting to win.
The media are a different story and put far too much pressure on with the narrative they create. Self interest and getting clicks for more ad revenue is their only concern.
The fans have a right to vent after a bad performance. They've paid good money to be there. They also have a right to wonder why Southgate isn't getting better performances out of a very talented group of players and why he doesn't seem to have a system. You can only wonder what the right boss might do with this squad. We looked far better at the last world cup.
Nobody in this tournament is unbeatable. Sure Spain look good and play pretty football, but lets see how they get on against the better sides. Germany are decent but nothing more than that. They do have home advantage though. France like England haven't played that well but you have to fancy them to go close. Portugal are average and playing a guy 3 or 4 years past his best.
We've been awful so far but still have very good players and maybe the Bellingham moment could be a turning point. Scotland got a draw with Switzerland so lets not be too scared of them. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:16 - Jul 1 with 2160 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:03 - Jul 1 by SydneyRs |
I don't buy this stuff about the fans at all.
Sorry, but who goes into every tournament expecting to win when the country has only won one thing ever and that was nearly 60 years ago? England fans are very passionate and desperate to see some success, so go in with hope and by and large get right behind the team every time. That isn't the same as expecting to win.
The media are a different story and put far too much pressure on with the narrative they create. Self interest and getting clicks for more ad revenue is their only concern.
The fans have a right to vent after a bad performance. They've paid good money to be there. They also have a right to wonder why Southgate isn't getting better performances out of a very talented group of players and why he doesn't seem to have a system. You can only wonder what the right boss might do with this squad. We looked far better at the last world cup.
Nobody in this tournament is unbeatable. Sure Spain look good and play pretty football, but lets see how they get on against the better sides. Germany are decent but nothing more than that. They do have home advantage though. France like England haven't played that well but you have to fancy them to go close. Portugal are average and playing a guy 3 or 4 years past his best.
We've been awful so far but still have very good players and maybe the Bellingham moment could be a turning point. Scotland got a draw with Switzerland so lets not be too scared of them. |
We can argue about how wide ranging it is, but the ‘Boregate’ nicknaming, Osama Bin Laden memes, and beer throwing v Slovenia is moronic and counter productive.
Neville nailed it last night. Criticism of the football is legitimate and the squad / staff should swallow it. That’s not what is happening in a lot of cases though.
Most fans decent. Had to feel for those three Rotherham fans who left early yesterday. Bet they won’t do it again for a while. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:25 - Jul 1 with 2140 views | nix |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 22:57 - Jun 30 by daveB |
England were poor for most of the game, looked nervous beforehand and just never got going. Foden & Saka just not working out wide, Stones and Walker really poor, we got better second half but not by much.
Couldn't see us scoring but what a goal by Bellingham.
Extra time was just as bad after we scored but got over the line, performance and result similar to Germany struggling to beat Algeria in 2014 world cup.
So much to improve on but a massive hurdle conquered today to win that game
I'll leave this one with you whilst you spend another week slaughtering the manager and his staff
1968 - 2018 - England won 6 knockout games
We've won 7 so far under Southgate |
I just don't know how you could look at England's performances this tournament and say we won because of this manager rather than in spite of him. For most of the matches we've looked unbalanced and without a clear plan. Even our best players have looked out of sorts and lacking in confidence.
I do think in the early days Southgate introduced some good things. I think he gave them more of a free rein, worked on their self-belief and some glaring omissions like not practising penalties. However, those things do not seem to be enough now. Maybe it would work better if he'd had just a motivating role and had a really good coach alongside him. But he picked Hasselbaink for that role inexplicably, who I don't think any QPR fan would claim to be a superlative coach.
The best coaches can do both roles, picking the best players in their best positions and inspire them with confidence too. I don't know why we can't find that when we're paying someone £5 million a year.
We have in my view a large pool of talent compared to past tournaments. We've had amazing players before but not as much strength in depth. I don't think past managers have had players of the standard of Palmer, Eze, Gordon, Toney, Watkins on the bench and Rashford and Grealish not even on the plane.
It's not just the English media that are saying we should do better with the talent available. I've heard several foreign journalists criticising Southgate. I think if anything he's had an easier ride than past managers from the turnip days.
I don't think our players have looked useless or clueless but I do think they have looked uncertain and lacking a clear strategy and a bit of confidence, especially those who've played in past tournaments with Southgate. It's the ones that have come in recently that have played with a bit more freedom.
If it's one or two players playing under their best then you might put it down to them but if it's the majority then you have to look at the manager. I don't expect them to play superlatively match after match but we just look so below par and we were so lucky to get through yesterday's match when even a team that is 45th in the world outplayed us for at least 60 minutes of the game.
I don't know for sure how he has done better than previous managers but my thoughts are that he's had a very good pool of players playing in tournaments where the standard may not be as high as in past tournaments. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:58 - Jul 1 with 2056 views | daveB |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:25 - Jul 1 by nix |
I just don't know how you could look at England's performances this tournament and say we won because of this manager rather than in spite of him. For most of the matches we've looked unbalanced and without a clear plan. Even our best players have looked out of sorts and lacking in confidence.
I do think in the early days Southgate introduced some good things. I think he gave them more of a free rein, worked on their self-belief and some glaring omissions like not practising penalties. However, those things do not seem to be enough now. Maybe it would work better if he'd had just a motivating role and had a really good coach alongside him. But he picked Hasselbaink for that role inexplicably, who I don't think any QPR fan would claim to be a superlative coach.
The best coaches can do both roles, picking the best players in their best positions and inspire them with confidence too. I don't know why we can't find that when we're paying someone £5 million a year.
We have in my view a large pool of talent compared to past tournaments. We've had amazing players before but not as much strength in depth. I don't think past managers have had players of the standard of Palmer, Eze, Gordon, Toney, Watkins on the bench and Rashford and Grealish not even on the plane.
It's not just the English media that are saying we should do better with the talent available. I've heard several foreign journalists criticising Southgate. I think if anything he's had an easier ride than past managers from the turnip days.
I don't think our players have looked useless or clueless but I do think they have looked uncertain and lacking a clear strategy and a bit of confidence, especially those who've played in past tournaments with Southgate. It's the ones that have come in recently that have played with a bit more freedom.
If it's one or two players playing under their best then you might put it down to them but if it's the majority then you have to look at the manager. I don't expect them to play superlatively match after match but we just look so below par and we were so lucky to get through yesterday's match when even a team that is 45th in the world outplayed us for at least 60 minutes of the game.
I don't know for sure how he has done better than previous managers but my thoughts are that he's had a very good pool of players playing in tournaments where the standard may not be as high as in past tournaments. |
I never said we won because of the manager, I said we were really poor all game and won thanks to 2 brilliant moments [Post edited 1 Jul 8:22]
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 10:31 - Jul 1 with 1757 views | Hoopsie |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:58 - Jul 1 by daveB |
I never said we won because of the manager, I said we were really poor all game and won thanks to 2 brilliant moments [Post edited 1 Jul 8:22]
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Were the players performance poor or the manager’s selection, tactics and game plan poor?
The two brilliant moments were created by the players themselves and not the manager
So is Southgate lucky? |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 10:46 - Jul 1 with 1698 views | londonscottish |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:25 - Jul 1 by nix |
I just don't know how you could look at England's performances this tournament and say we won because of this manager rather than in spite of him. For most of the matches we've looked unbalanced and without a clear plan. Even our best players have looked out of sorts and lacking in confidence.
I do think in the early days Southgate introduced some good things. I think he gave them more of a free rein, worked on their self-belief and some glaring omissions like not practising penalties. However, those things do not seem to be enough now. Maybe it would work better if he'd had just a motivating role and had a really good coach alongside him. But he picked Hasselbaink for that role inexplicably, who I don't think any QPR fan would claim to be a superlative coach.
The best coaches can do both roles, picking the best players in their best positions and inspire them with confidence too. I don't know why we can't find that when we're paying someone £5 million a year.
We have in my view a large pool of talent compared to past tournaments. We've had amazing players before but not as much strength in depth. I don't think past managers have had players of the standard of Palmer, Eze, Gordon, Toney, Watkins on the bench and Rashford and Grealish not even on the plane.
It's not just the English media that are saying we should do better with the talent available. I've heard several foreign journalists criticising Southgate. I think if anything he's had an easier ride than past managers from the turnip days.
I don't think our players have looked useless or clueless but I do think they have looked uncertain and lacking a clear strategy and a bit of confidence, especially those who've played in past tournaments with Southgate. It's the ones that have come in recently that have played with a bit more freedom.
If it's one or two players playing under their best then you might put it down to them but if it's the majority then you have to look at the manager. I don't expect them to play superlatively match after match but we just look so below par and we were so lucky to get through yesterday's match when even a team that is 45th in the world outplayed us for at least 60 minutes of the game.
I don't know for sure how he has done better than previous managers but my thoughts are that he's had a very good pool of players playing in tournaments where the standard may not be as high as in past tournaments. |
It's awful to watch. I missed Kane's goal as I took the opportunity to go and buy some frozen prawns. Such drab football.
No width, no runners getting in behind. All the opposite team needs to do is line up 2 banks of 4 knowing that England can't pass through that.
I went to the last two friendlies at Wembley. The Iceland game was like that. I guess the only positive is that the Belgium game before that was fast and open. Maybe when a team comes at England we'll see more of the attacking play we know they're capable of. |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 10:55 - Jul 1 with 1670 views | daveB |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 10:31 - Jul 1 by Hoopsie |
Were the players performance poor or the manager’s selection, tactics and game plan poor?
The two brilliant moments were created by the players themselves and not the manager
So is Southgate lucky? |
it's a bit of both. Kane said that long throw had been worked on but moments like that are individual brilliance like Beckham against Greece and Platt v Belgium.
The narrative has been written that if England win this it's despite Southgate and if we don't it's all down to him and I don't think anything that happens in the next 2 weeks will change that.
I don't think he's having a good tournament, the lack of changes yesterday was infuriating but we got away with it
Players like Stones, Foden, Walker, Bellingham, Kane, Saka all playing miles off their best but that goal yesterday shows why he has to stuck with most of them really and hope they come good.
One thing is for sure the players and manager are going to have to d a lot better to get through the next game as the Swiss look a miles better team than England at the moment | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:14 - Jul 1 with 1598 views | robith |
I'm glad people are coming round to the fact that Foden at 10 isn't the answer, but Foden out of the team. A tremendous player but he's been playing like an absolute prick at this Euros. Main accomplishments being unable to complete passes and getting goals chalked off |  | | |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:30 - Jul 1 with 1547 views | Juzzie |
I was (but wasn't) surprised at the starting XI yesterday. Same old, same old.
Palmer has to start on Saturday and I think Kane needs Toney as the midfield just aren't doing that job and Kane is too isolated.
Foden is a great player but just hasn't done it, cannot start sadly and it will create the slot for Toney to start. |  | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:46 - Jul 1 with 1443 views | Antti_Heinola |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:16 - Jul 1 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We can argue about how wide ranging it is, but the ‘Boregate’ nicknaming, Osama Bin Laden memes, and beer throwing v Slovenia is moronic and counter productive.
Neville nailed it last night. Criticism of the football is legitimate and the squad / staff should swallow it. That’s not what is happening in a lot of cases though.
Most fans decent. Had to feel for those three Rotherham fans who left early yesterday. Bet they won’t do it again for a while. |
Agree -the moronic stuff is just that - moronic.
But also think Neville is right. This is not about us 'expecting' to win the tournament. I don't think many people 'expect' that - but we do have a right to expect better than those four games, which have all been at best sub par and at worst absolute rubbish. I've defended Southgate for years, but his refusal last night to use subs was bordering on stupidity. Watch Spain, a team not even fancied to win this tournament a fortnight ago, and how they react to being 2-1 up, 3-1 up: going forward, get the next goal. That's Marti's philosophy too. Even when we went 2-1 up last night, we just retreated, when we had them by the balls. I don't get it. |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 with 1416 views | Antti_Heinola |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 10:46 - Jul 1 by londonscottish |
It's awful to watch. I missed Kane's goal as I took the opportunity to go and buy some frozen prawns. Such drab football.
No width, no runners getting in behind. All the opposite team needs to do is line up 2 banks of 4 knowing that England can't pass through that.
I went to the last two friendlies at Wembley. The Iceland game was like that. I guess the only positive is that the Belgium game before that was fast and open. Maybe when a team comes at England we'll see more of the attacking play we know they're capable of. |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. | |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:26 - Jul 1 with 1297 views | ParkRoyalR |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 10:55 - Jul 1 by daveB |
it's a bit of both. Kane said that long throw had been worked on but moments like that are individual brilliance like Beckham against Greece and Platt v Belgium.
The narrative has been written that if England win this it's despite Southgate and if we don't it's all down to him and I don't think anything that happens in the next 2 weeks will change that.
I don't think he's having a good tournament, the lack of changes yesterday was infuriating but we got away with it
Players like Stones, Foden, Walker, Bellingham, Kane, Saka all playing miles off their best but that goal yesterday shows why he has to stuck with most of them really and hope they come good.
One thing is for sure the players and manager are going to have to d a lot better to get through the next game as the Swiss look a miles better team than England at the moment |
Lack of changes made no sense at all and he got away with it as you say,
One of many examples of his ineptness was moving Eze into LWB position when I think he still had 2 if not 3 Subs available (including Konsa) during that 1st Half in Extra-Time,
Ian Wright picked up on this weakness and I'm a big Eze fan but know he just cannot concentrate & defend that space and nearly got caught out twice, particularly when his man put it over the bar from 6 yards or so, then its penalties and its not looking so good,
Just another example of Southgate being caught in the headlights & just look at the pedigree of his coaching team, those boys are stealing a living,
Alright being Mr Do The Right Thing but actions speak louder than words and how Southgate can accept a salary of £ 4.9m beggars belief (and I like the bloke).
An already wealthy man from football and somehow thinks he's worth 10 times the salary of Sabrina Weigman or 20 times the salary of the PM? Just reminds me of a Trevor Brooking FA type who ticks all the boxes except one, being able to do the job. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:27 - Jul 1 with 1288 views | kensalriser |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:46 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Agree -the moronic stuff is just that - moronic.
But also think Neville is right. This is not about us 'expecting' to win the tournament. I don't think many people 'expect' that - but we do have a right to expect better than those four games, which have all been at best sub par and at worst absolute rubbish. I've defended Southgate for years, but his refusal last night to use subs was bordering on stupidity. Watch Spain, a team not even fancied to win this tournament a fortnight ago, and how they react to being 2-1 up, 3-1 up: going forward, get the next goal. That's Marti's philosophy too. Even when we went 2-1 up last night, we just retreated, when we had them by the balls. I don't get it. |
Spain look light years ahead of England. They move the ball accurately and rapidly and have two young, pacy, fearless wingers who love to get in behind. They did leave themselves open on the break v Georgia and conceded first as a result of that, but I never thought they wouldn't win. Still attacking in the final minutes at 4-1 up! |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:30 - Jul 1 with 1265 views | 1MoreBrightonR |
im in Poland visiting my partners family and literally every person I've spoken to here about the Euros has said England are awful. the commentators on TV here were making fun of us, and I'm not exaggerating. This isn't about England fans expecting us to win, it's about us looking terrible, and as has been mentioned in a previous post, it's not just England fans who think that. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:33 - Jul 1 with 1255 views | CamberleyR |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:26 - Jul 1 by ParkRoyalR |
Lack of changes made no sense at all and he got away with it as you say,
One of many examples of his ineptness was moving Eze into LWB position when I think he still had 2 if not 3 Subs available (including Konsa) during that 1st Half in Extra-Time,
Ian Wright picked up on this weakness and I'm a big Eze fan but know he just cannot concentrate & defend that space and nearly got caught out twice, particularly when his man put it over the bar from 6 yards or so, then its penalties and its not looking so good,
Just another example of Southgate being caught in the headlights & just look at the pedigree of his coaching team, those boys are stealing a living,
Alright being Mr Do The Right Thing but actions speak louder than words and how Southgate can accept a salary of £ 4.9m beggars belief (and I like the bloke).
An already wealthy man from football and somehow thinks he's worth 10 times the salary of Sabrina Weigman or 20 times the salary of the PM? Just reminds me of a Trevor Brooking FA type who ticks all the boxes except one, being able to do the job. |
The 21st century's Ron Greenwood. |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:39 - Jul 1 with 1233 views | Antti_Heinola |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:26 - Jul 1 by ParkRoyalR |
Lack of changes made no sense at all and he got away with it as you say,
One of many examples of his ineptness was moving Eze into LWB position when I think he still had 2 if not 3 Subs available (including Konsa) during that 1st Half in Extra-Time,
Ian Wright picked up on this weakness and I'm a big Eze fan but know he just cannot concentrate & defend that space and nearly got caught out twice, particularly when his man put it over the bar from 6 yards or so, then its penalties and its not looking so good,
Just another example of Southgate being caught in the headlights & just look at the pedigree of his coaching team, those boys are stealing a living,
Alright being Mr Do The Right Thing but actions speak louder than words and how Southgate can accept a salary of £ 4.9m beggars belief (and I like the bloke).
An already wealthy man from football and somehow thinks he's worth 10 times the salary of Sabrina Weigman or 20 times the salary of the PM? Just reminds me of a Trevor Brooking FA type who ticks all the boxes except one, being able to do the job. |
Eze should never have been there, but on the contrary, he defended those two instances well, and did enough to put off the bloke for the big chance. Thought he played really well overall.
The stuff about what money he's on is meaningless. It's up to the FA what they pay Wiegman, not Southgate. What's the PM's salary got to do with the price of rice?
Brooking's root and branch restructuring of the game over a decade ago has meant us producing more technically sound players than at any point in the last 50 years. | |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:56 - Jul 1 with 1148 views | terryb |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 23:59 - Jun 30 by stowmarketrange |
To be fair there weren’t round of 16 games to win in most of those previous 50 years,and that’s where a few of Southgate’s 7 wins have come from.
A lot of previous winners of the Euros haven’t had the same quality players that we have in this current squad,but Southgate needs to find a way to allow them to play as a team capable of actually winning something. |
The 86 & 90 World Cups had rounds of 16 & we beat Paraquay & Belgium in them.
The difference is that Robson made major changes in those years after the group stage had been near disasters. Bringing Beardsley in to play alongside Lineker in 86 & changing to a back three with Parker playing in 90.
Southgate appears to me to be trying to accommodate his "star" players rather than finding a system that suits. Foden is not a wide left player, especially when we're not playing a left back, Bellingham & Kane have no understanding either.
Gomez must have been included in the squad as cover for left back & he has played more games in that position than anyone except Shaw, yet it's looking like he is about 5th choice for the role. 5th choice (or 6th) is what he was at Liverpool last season as a centre half! | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:04 - Jul 1 with 1088 views | TheChef |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 12:56 - Jul 1 by terryb |
The 86 & 90 World Cups had rounds of 16 & we beat Paraquay & Belgium in them.
The difference is that Robson made major changes in those years after the group stage had been near disasters. Bringing Beardsley in to play alongside Lineker in 86 & changing to a back three with Parker playing in 90.
Southgate appears to me to be trying to accommodate his "star" players rather than finding a system that suits. Foden is not a wide left player, especially when we're not playing a left back, Bellingham & Kane have no understanding either.
Gomez must have been included in the squad as cover for left back & he has played more games in that position than anyone except Shaw, yet it's looking like he is about 5th choice for the role. 5th choice (or 6th) is what he was at Liverpool last season as a centre half! |
Having a squad of 26 inevitably means a good few players won't get a look in, but having played so poorly you'd think Southgate would mix things up more. I doubt that is helping too much with squad harmony, but who knows.
At the end of the day Brian it's a results business, etc. and the fact we're unbeaten going into the quarter finals means Southgate will feel vindicated in his team selection so far. |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:19 - Jul 1 with 1010 views | numptydumpty |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 07:03 - Jul 1 by SydneyRs |
I don't buy this stuff about the fans at all.
Sorry, but who goes into every tournament expecting to win when the country has only won one thing ever and that was nearly 60 years ago? England fans are very passionate and desperate to see some success, so go in with hope and by and large get right behind the team every time. That isn't the same as expecting to win.
The media are a different story and put far too much pressure on with the narrative they create. Self interest and getting clicks for more ad revenue is their only concern.
The fans have a right to vent after a bad performance. They've paid good money to be there. They also have a right to wonder why Southgate isn't getting better performances out of a very talented group of players and why he doesn't seem to have a system. You can only wonder what the right boss might do with this squad. We looked far better at the last world cup.
Nobody in this tournament is unbeatable. Sure Spain look good and play pretty football, but lets see how they get on against the better sides. Germany are decent but nothing more than that. They do have home advantage though. France like England haven't played that well but you have to fancy them to go close. Portugal are average and playing a guy 3 or 4 years past his best.
We've been awful so far but still have very good players and maybe the Bellingham moment could be a turning point. Scotland got a draw with Switzerland so lets not be too scared of them. |
What I was saying about our fans only accepting winning in the final as acceptable for England under Southgate, I believe is totally valid.
If we lose in the final, our fans will be on Southgates back as general belief is that we have a generational talent throughout the attacking elements of our team and any success is on the players and with Southgate all reasons for failure are put totally on Southgate.
The current belief is if we are ever going to win a tournament that time is now
Southgate got no credit for reaching the semis of the World Cup and got even less credit for reaching the final in the Euros and only losing out on penalties.
We have reached the quarter yet again under him and all Sourhgate ever gets is criticism.
But in terms of where we have got to in tournaments is in the advanced stages always under him
Most other England managers, we didn't qualify from the group stages on occasions or we didn't qualify for the tournament stages at all.
But I have followed England throughout my life. Probably first one I knew much about was 1982 but we always expect to get to the final stages in recent times and the fans always think our players are super heroes and the country as a whole does always expect us to do very well and in nearly all circumstances, we massively underachieve!!
Whether it's Owen, Rooney, Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Gascoigne, Shearer, Waddle, Barnes, Lineker, Keegan, Robson, Wilkins, Hoddle.
Or Bellingham, Kane, Saka, Foden.
Think it's fair to say we do all think pre tournaments we expect success, given the players we have. Think that is always true and I think some younger players do completely freeze, understandably under the burden of expectation. Very different to pressures performing at club level.
I am not a fan of defensive football but whatever Southgates faults are such as predictable and dull on occasions, we do always somehow achieve and whether he is the luckiest manager alive or not.
And whatever is said pre tournament, we do always expect and can't see that has ever been any different. Ie we as a general fanbase for England always rate our players and our team way above what we achieve. |  |
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:38 - Jul 1 with 1623 views | londonscottish |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. |
God yeah, I caught a few minutes of Spain Georgia and what a massive contrast.
Yes, England move the ball so slowly and don't see to be able to move in numbers. Scotland were the same; well a lot worse actually. The gaps against Germany were horrific at times.
I've watched seven Scotland & England games now and can't say I'm looking forward to the eighth. It's like a form of mental torture.
Roll on the start of next season. [Post edited 1 Jul 13:40]
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| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 13:51 - Jul 1 with 1551 views | Logman |
We are not going to fix it now. Just have to hope that our huff and puff somehow gets us over the line against the Swiss. The players who came on did well. He needs to have more faith in his squad and remove players earlier if they are struggling, e.g. Trippier, Foden. I hope he is not going to take any credit for yesterday. That we won was completely in spite of Southgate and not because of him. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:08 - Jul 1 with 1494 views | cyprusmel |
Whatever his next line up is going to be, In my opinion he must include Palmer from the start. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:13 - Jul 1 with 1440 views | CiderwithRsie |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 11:50 - Jul 1 by Antti_Heinola |
I think we do have width. What we don't have is cohesion. Look at spain and how every time they have it there are four or five players within a few yards ready for a pass. Our biggest problem is the gaps between all of our players. All standing miles away from one another, no options given. Every time we get it, Saka is on the touchline, Foden is usually on the touchline. The width is there, but the movement of the ball isn't quick enough because the gaps between players are so big. |
Exactly this.
I genuinely think we owe a debt to Southgate since 2016. He took over a team with no culture or spirit, and God knows we were lucky to get him instead of Allardyce. He's delivered qualification for tournament more or less as routine, (which it should be, but wasn't) and has regularly got us further into tournaments than anyone except Ramsey, Venables and Robson, and done it more often even than them.
But.
Currently we're awful to watch. I'd watch Marti's QPR over this lot every time. And it's not a matter of winning ugly, we're barely winning at all.
I don't know if they're shagged out after the English season, carrying injuries, messed up by (in some cases) playing out of position, lacking motivation or just don't understand the system, but one way or another players way more talented than QPR and generally more talented than the opposition (so far) look slower both physically and in their thinking than every team we play.
I don't think Southgate is crap, I think he's very good at some things, but those aren't the things England need to take a step up right now. You can never tell in a knock-out competition, but I don't think we're in the top four sides in this tournament. | | | |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:19 - Jul 1 with 1414 views | Rangersw12 |
| England v Slovakia last 16 Match Thread on 14:13 - Jul 1 by CiderwithRsie |
Exactly this.
I genuinely think we owe a debt to Southgate since 2016. He took over a team with no culture or spirit, and God knows we were lucky to get him instead of Allardyce. He's delivered qualification for tournament more or less as routine, (which it should be, but wasn't) and has regularly got us further into tournaments than anyone except Ramsey, Venables and Robson, and done it more often even than them.
But.
Currently we're awful to watch. I'd watch Marti's QPR over this lot every time. And it's not a matter of winning ugly, we're barely winning at all.
I don't know if they're shagged out after the English season, carrying injuries, messed up by (in some cases) playing out of position, lacking motivation or just don't understand the system, but one way or another players way more talented than QPR and generally more talented than the opposition (so far) look slower both physically and in their thinking than every team we play.
I don't think Southgate is crap, I think he's very good at some things, but those aren't the things England need to take a step up right now. You can never tell in a knock-out competition, but I don't think we're in the top four sides in this tournament. |
Bar Spain everyone looks pretty average to me
We've got a great chance to get to another final | | | |
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