| The case for sticking with Russell Martin 17:22 - Apr 30 with 3265 views | felly1 |
I'm a self confessed happy clapper.
I'll moan with the best of you after a crappy defeat but in general I'm a glass half full type.
60 minutes into the Cardiff game we're one nil up,
We've just won three on the trot and it's looking like we're about to face Leicester on 87 points after 43 games..
That's an average of over two points a game and in my view a decent amount that it's hard to complain about.
37 mins later.. Disaster and Auto promotion doomed.
Was this Martin's fault?
No.. If Brooks scores the open goal in the first half and or Armstrong and Adams take one of their numerous
chances we win comfortably and it's game on.
This was the opportunity for knives to come out and this was made much worse with the rubbish performances in our last two games..
The point is these two games were now basically irrelevant.
Player motivation gone.. No point getting injuries or suspension for the play off games.
I read the comments.. Martin is a clown, tippy tappy football and loads of other insults thrown his way.
He even had the cheek to play and praise Stephens which is sacrilege to the great and good on this site..
Even though we picked up as many if not more points when he featured.
I want him to be here next season regardless of the playoff outcome.
He IMO deserves till at least Xmas next season.
At his previous clubs he's improved them on the second season so maybe we'll get that here too.
. I do find it strange that the majority on here are middle aged or older yet seem the most angry and knee jerk to keep replacing managers when we hit bad form.
I thought we were a more calmer and considered generation that understood that it maybe wise to give a manager a bit more time than just one season after finishing 4th.
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 17:47 - Apr 30 with 3204 views | saintmark1976 |
Yes, keep him apart from:-
1. His tippy tappy football was found out after the Huddersfield home game when a side now soon to be relegated put three goals by us before half time. We went on to win but from that moment on every other team in The Championship knew how to play us. Russell Martin did nothing subsequently to change our possession based football resulting in us missing out on automatic promotion. 63% possession with not one shot on goal at Leicester only last Tuesday springs immediately to mind.
2. With one game left of the regular season Russell Martin still doesn’t know his best team. One example among many being the ludicrous light weight forward line he put out against Hull at home resulting in an unnecessary defeat.
3. Throughout the whole season so far Russell Martin’s use of substitutes and game management has consistently been beyond anyone’s comprehension.
You are fully entitled to your opinion felly1 and I respect it but please don’t expect me to agree with it. | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 18:24 - Apr 30 with 3158 views | felly1 |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 17:47 - Apr 30 by saintmark1976 |
Yes, keep him apart from:-
1. His tippy tappy football was found out after the Huddersfield home game when a side now soon to be relegated put three goals by us before half time. We went on to win but from that moment on every other team in The Championship knew how to play us. Russell Martin did nothing subsequently to change our possession based football resulting in us missing out on automatic promotion. 63% possession with not one shot on goal at Leicester only last Tuesday springs immediately to mind.
2. With one game left of the regular season Russell Martin still doesn’t know his best team. One example among many being the ludicrous light weight forward line he put out against Hull at home resulting in an unnecessary defeat.
3. Throughout the whole season so far Russell Martin’s use of substitutes and game management has consistently been beyond anyone’s comprehension.
You are fully entitled to your opinion felly1 and I respect it but please don’t expect me to agree with it. |
Saint Mark, he deserves scrutiny and criticism on a variety of decisions he's made and some of his decisions have potentially cost us points.
My main issue is that this would happen with pretty much any other manager we'd have appointed.
By all accounts there has been much unrest at Leeds and Leicester as their fans too have been very critical of their respective managers.
As far a I can see these two particular clubs have recruited more wisely and kept a core of good Premiership players compared to us... Yet still their fans complain!
I would imagine only Ipswich are in the majority a happy bunch considering where they were a few years back.
If there is a clear fault at our club it lies with poor recruitment of players and whoever is in charge of that needs to face the music.
Of course if we could find a manager better than Martin and I appreciate they'll be many on here that feels there's plenty out there!
I prefer to give a manager some time.
I stuck by Ralph until it became obvious even to me that he was a busted flush.. I just feel Martin deserves another go next season.. At least till Xmas. | | | |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 18:24 - Apr 30 with 3155 views | PatfromPoole |
Middle-aged?
How very dare you. |  |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 18:30 - Apr 30 with 3153 views | felly1 |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 18:24 - Apr 30 by PatfromPoole |
Middle-aged?
How very dare you. |
OK Pat...The slightly more mature individual. 😉 | | | |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 19:13 - Apr 30 with 3083 views | DorsetIan |
Its not the tippy-tappy per se. It the fact that we struggle to switch from that to a much more aggressively defensive or attacking style when needed.
A bit like spin bowling. Lovely when it works but not when it's being smashed all over the park. | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 20:03 - Apr 30 with 3021 views | kingslandstand1 |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 19:13 - Apr 30 by DorsetIan |
Its not the tippy-tappy per se. It the fact that we struggle to switch from that to a much more aggressively defensive or attacking style when needed.
A bit like spin bowling. Lovely when it works but not when it's being smashed all over the park. |
That just about sums it up. We actually didn't do too badly at times and played some decent football "tippy tappy" style, although I'd rather call it possession and going forward, that produced a decent result! After all we can't have done too badly, we've finished 4th FFS, but by changing style and not making substitutions just for the sake of it, and we could have finished 2nd |  | | |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 20:29 - Apr 30 with 2984 views | saintmark1976 |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 18:24 - Apr 30 by felly1 |
Saint Mark, he deserves scrutiny and criticism on a variety of decisions he's made and some of his decisions have potentially cost us points.
My main issue is that this would happen with pretty much any other manager we'd have appointed.
By all accounts there has been much unrest at Leeds and Leicester as their fans too have been very critical of their respective managers.
As far a I can see these two particular clubs have recruited more wisely and kept a core of good Premiership players compared to us... Yet still their fans complain!
I would imagine only Ipswich are in the majority a happy bunch considering where they were a few years back.
If there is a clear fault at our club it lies with poor recruitment of players and whoever is in charge of that needs to face the music.
Of course if we could find a manager better than Martin and I appreciate they'll be many on here that feels there's plenty out there!
I prefer to give a manager some time.
I stuck by Ralph until it became obvious even to me that he was a busted flush.. I just feel Martin deserves another go next season.. At least till Xmas. |
There in lies the problem felly1, recognising when a manager is a busted flush as you put it.
In the case of Ralph he should have gone at the end of the season before last. I’m way beyond middle age now, but if memory serves we only won one ( Arsenal 1-0 at home when Forster played probably his best ever game for us ) of the last fourteen games and got hammered 4-0 by Leicester on the last day. Yet Ralph was given another chance and we all know how that ended.
Ralph didn’t want to change and in my opinion that’s also the biggest problem with Russell Martin and his tippy tappy ( some call it possession based ) football. Not knowing your best team, ridiculous substitutions and poor game management I can understand, but continuing with a system that has clearly failed to deliver automatic promotion is a concession to far for me I afraid. | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 20:38 - Apr 30 with 2969 views | davidargyll |
Nice article but boll*cks I’m afraid (IMHO)
It’s not a question of what RM has achieved with the squad but what he HASNT!I
My definition of a good manager is one who can take B and C players and turn them into an A team.
RM unquestionably has not done that. In fact I would argue that he has taken a number of A/B players - eg Brooks, Charles, Fraser, Rothwell - and turned them into B/C players because of his addiction to a dead end system.
He’s cr*p and the sooner the owners realise this the better.
And I’m afraid that, if you really think that “it maybe wise to give a manager a bit more time than just one season after finishing 4th”, I can promise you that mid-table mediocrity is all you will end up with.
Maybe that is what you are happy with. I for one am not. I want to support a club with AMBITION, something which i think does not chime with us finishing (a pretty lukewarm) 4th. | | | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 20:48 - Apr 30 with 2938 views | PatfromPoole |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 20:38 - Apr 30 by davidargyll |
Nice article but boll*cks I’m afraid (IMHO)
It’s not a question of what RM has achieved with the squad but what he HASNT!I
My definition of a good manager is one who can take B and C players and turn them into an A team.
RM unquestionably has not done that. In fact I would argue that he has taken a number of A/B players - eg Brooks, Charles, Fraser, Rothwell - and turned them into B/C players because of his addiction to a dead end system.
He’s cr*p and the sooner the owners realise this the better.
And I’m afraid that, if you really think that “it maybe wise to give a manager a bit more time than just one season after finishing 4th”, I can promise you that mid-table mediocrity is all you will end up with.
Maybe that is what you are happy with. I for one am not. I want to support a club with AMBITION, something which i think does not chime with us finishing (a pretty lukewarm) 4th. |
Seconded. | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 21:37 - Apr 30 with 2880 views | BuenosSaint |
At the start of the season, i wanted play off place and that has been achieved. I know we are all fecked off because it feels as if we have thrown automatic promotion away etc etc but this has been a good season all things considered. Manager deserves the shot at play offs. He has earned the place. Give the manager another shot at improving the position next season if we don't go up. We can moan and groan when season is over. Slagging saints off when we have a relatively easy shot at Wembley is a shocker. My only caveat is if Saints COMPLETELY Show no fight in the 2 semi final games then there has to be an inquest in the close season whether to look at new management. | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 22:32 - Apr 30 with 2813 views | Southamptonfan |
Yep, I understand your sentiments. Looks like Leeds have blown it too, do they sack Farke? I don't like the slow passing around, but I am not sure RM wants it like that (as in during the unbeaten run, we were much quicker and more ruthless). The players should have seen out games, scored sitters etc. We could blame the manager for various things, but certain players lost us games (Brooks missing sitters, Adams missing sitters, defend lers not tackling). I'm not sure. Let's see if we win the play offs. | |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 11:57 - May 1 with 2646 views | Ifonly |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 22:32 - Apr 30 by Southamptonfan |
Yep, I understand your sentiments. Looks like Leeds have blown it too, do they sack Farke? I don't like the slow passing around, but I am not sure RM wants it like that (as in during the unbeaten run, we were much quicker and more ruthless). The players should have seen out games, scored sitters etc. We could blame the manager for various things, but certain players lost us games (Brooks missing sitters, Adams missing sitters, defend lers not tackling). I'm not sure. Let's see if we win the play offs. |
You're right that the slow passing around isn't RM's first choice. He would prefer that we immediately pass it forward. But the point is, he only wants this so long as we retain possession. He doesn't want us to risk losing possession. If we're dominating the other team, we can move it quickly and not risk losing possession. But if we're playing a well drilled side, we can't.
This is a direct copy from Pep. The main difference is that City's players can break down a packed defence after moving the ball slowly up the field, we can't. With our standard of player, we need a manager who is prepared to take a few more risks with possession and move the ball quicker. | | | |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 15:15 - May 1 with 2521 views | saint901 |
Most managers have studied the game for years and have a plan, a system that they believe is effective. The very best coaches in the UK and Europe have gravitated to teams with pretty much unlimited funds to buy players. The result is that the quality of players can (and does) mask a number of flaws in their preferred systems. Those flaws are most often exposed when they need to chase a game from a losing position. When their game needs urgency and a degree of reckless attacking, we see the problems of trying to change the mindset of players who have been told for months to keep the ball.
Teams of lower quality need to have much simpler systems to play because individual players will make errors or fail to follow the plan. In these situations, the manager needs to find a compromise between possession based tactics requiring technically good players and pacey football. By pacey I mean get it forward quickly to speed merchants or play one touch football or try to achieve overloads in certain areas of the pitch.
In my view RM has strayed too far towards possession which he sees the better PL and European clubs use well because they have better players.
Leicester and Leeds and especially Ipswich (all finished above us) have a better blend of slow, slow, quick, quick, slow. Leicester because they have quality. Leeds because they has passion and drive. Ipswich because a lot of their players were in L1 last season and don't know any other way (and a very rich sponsor).
We may be the best of the rest in the Champ, we've all seen that possession and slow football is not enough to get promoted except in the lottery of the playoff.
This is something that RM could have fixed before Christmas - and chose not to. This is why I think he's a few percent short of what we need.
I'm not calling for his head but equally I'll not be overjoyed if he stays because I can't see him changing his views and playing to the strengths of the squad and the requirements of this league rather than his own "vision". | | | |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 16:38 - May 1 with 2492 views | Berber |
| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 20:38 - Apr 30 by davidargyll |
Nice article but boll*cks I’m afraid (IMHO)
It’s not a question of what RM has achieved with the squad but what he HASNT!I
My definition of a good manager is one who can take B and C players and turn them into an A team.
RM unquestionably has not done that. In fact I would argue that he has taken a number of A/B players - eg Brooks, Charles, Fraser, Rothwell - and turned them into B/C players because of his addiction to a dead end system.
He’s cr*p and the sooner the owners realise this the better.
And I’m afraid that, if you really think that “it maybe wise to give a manager a bit more time than just one season after finishing 4th”, I can promise you that mid-table mediocrity is all you will end up with.
Maybe that is what you are happy with. I for one am not. I want to support a club with AMBITION, something which i think does not chime with us finishing (a pretty lukewarm) 4th. |
Yep, this. |  |
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| The case for sticking with Russell Martin on 16:49 - May 1 with 2477 views | arfurdent |
Think Saints have found their level in the Championship
No VAR and an actual physical contact game. They even win some |  |
| And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head |
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