| Released/Retained list on 21:32 - May 11 with 2657 views | Hitch |
| Released/Retained list on 21:02 - May 11 by Ned_Kennedys |
This post is a bit histrionic isn’t it? Nailed on for relegation because the club are in talks with Martin?
No way is he a regular starter but I’d have no problem with a pay as you play deal with him on the bench to come on and nick a few important goals. How many games this season have we literally had no forwards as subs? |
Martin is now at a stage where if he went on the pitch in a suit of armour it would not affect his speed.
Aim a bit higher, surely. |  | |  |
| Released/Retained list on 21:41 - May 11 with 2604 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Released/Retained list on 20:57 - May 11 by E15Hoop |
You'll be surprised to hear that I sort of agree with you on this one, TK1.
I have long wondered why we don't hear of LF doing some one on one sessions with the strikers (or PF for that matter).
Again, I'm purely speculating, but there's clearly a reason that has to be justified to someone at some level. |
I have definitely heard of Ferdinand coaching the strikers. And Furlong is a coach, so I think it's fair to assume he coaches strikers as part of his brief
No club can get too much leadership in the dressing room, I get that, but no club should look to signing immobile players to achieve it. Especially not a club who's done it a few times in recent years with lamentable results. |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 21:53 - May 11 with 2488 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Released/Retained list on 17:20 - May 11 by stevec |
So let me summarise your comments.
Richards has got significant off field issues.
Richards has got significant on field issues, that is you can’t get him on it.
Richards does not play in a position we can accommodate.
And our DOF gives him a three year contract.
Beam me up Scotty. |
It's progress - it's usually a four-year contract. |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 21:56 - May 11 with 2481 views | distortR |
| Released/Retained list on 21:41 - May 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
I have definitely heard of Ferdinand coaching the strikers. And Furlong is a coach, so I think it's fair to assume he coaches strikers as part of his brief
No club can get too much leadership in the dressing room, I get that, but no club should look to signing immobile players to achieve it. Especially not a club who's done it a few times in recent years with lamentable results. |
QPR - shit but local.
Chris Martin - shit but vocal. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 21:59 - May 11 with 2455 views | davman |
| Released/Retained list on 19:04 - May 11 by VancouverHoop |
If Dobson's to be believed the team badly needs 'Dressing Room leaders." Apparently coaches/managers don't count in that regard because "The Room" belongs to the players. With Johansen, Adomah and Balogun apparently leaving we're short of an old-head within the squad and Martin does fulfill that role. I suppose with five subs you can carry the occasional geezer if his main job isn't actually scoring goals anymore. |
THIS IS NOT A "YOUNG SQUAD" - that is rhetoric thrown out by the club, but is not backed up by any truth - look at the Tweets on the number of minutes for players < 23 years old doing the round. Our "young" players include Aaron Drewe, who is OLDER THAN ETHAN LAIRD FFS. |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 22:10 - May 11 with 2422 views | VancouverHoop |
| Released/Retained list on 21:59 - May 11 by davman |
THIS IS NOT A "YOUNG SQUAD" - that is rhetoric thrown out by the club, but is not backed up by any truth - look at the Tweets on the number of minutes for players < 23 years old doing the round. Our "young" players include Aaron Drewe, who is OLDER THAN ETHAN LAIRD FFS. |
No but it's a very nervous one, who seem not well practiced in calmness under pressure. One bad mistake, we fall apart and it's game over. If – and of course it's a big one – Martin can bring some self-belief to this group then he'll be worth what they're paying him. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 22:33 - May 11 with 2315 views | OakR |
| Released/Retained list on 20:57 - May 11 by E15Hoop |
You'll be surprised to hear that I sort of agree with you on this one, TK1.
I have long wondered why we don't hear of LF doing some one on one sessions with the strikers (or PF for that matter).
Again, I'm purely speculating, but there's clearly a reason that has to be justified to someone at some level. |
I assume a DOF gets paid more for that role than someone working with the strikers.
Therefore, unless it's been agreed otherwise, I think you'd want your DOF working full-time on his role, not 4 out of 5 days, which makes the DOF salary effectively more expensive or a very expensive coach, in which case you might just pay more for a very good coach in the area and make thhe DOF 4 days per week, for example. That's what I would have been told when I used to work in an office anyway. | |
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| Released/Retained list on 22:45 - May 11 with 2271 views | PunteR |
| Released/Retained list on 19:05 - May 11 by E15Hoop |
Thanks for that reasoned and well thought through response.
Maybe I should become like everyone else then, and just go around saying, "You know what its all f*cking sh*t and no-one's got a f*cking clue".
I don't remember ever turning around and describing the situation we find ourselves in as "Brilliant". I just believe that there is reason why decisions are being made the way they're being made - or let's go with the alternative viewpoint that actually there's a bunch of people in various management positions who are going out of their way to make various desisions which are detrimental to the long-term health of the club and (a.) consistently lying to the board about how much money is being spent and (b) covering up their tracks well enough to make sure they don't get found out., and (c.) Have done it so well that a board who have run the club for 10 years haven't managed to work out how their painfully amassed fortunes have disappeared consistently into thin air.
I would respectfully suggest that my viepoint is slightly less of a fantasty than that one. |
Your stance doesn't ring true. It comes across as false optimisism which given the situation of the club makes you look a bit of a simpleton hence the Paul Whitehouse "Brilliant!" Analogy. I know you're not a simpleton given the lengthy and well worded posts you do, hence why I feel your "alternative" point of view doesn't ring true. Surely you can see the club is in a mess and questions really need to be answered. ?.
But who cares? Crack on if this makes you feel better about the club. |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 07:08 - May 12 with 1954 views | dmm |
On the 'Retained' theme, these comments on Sinclair Armstrong are pretty good. Here's hoping the lad will take his game to the next level.
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| Released/Retained list on 07:41 - May 12 with 1877 views | Monkey_Roots |
| Released/Retained list on 07:08 - May 12 by dmm |
On the 'Retained' theme, these comments on Sinclair Armstrong are pretty good. Here's hoping the lad will take his game to the next level.
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I really want him to score. |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 07:56 - May 12 with 1818 views | EastR |
| Released/Retained list on 21:56 - May 11 by distortR |
QPR - shit but local.
Chris Martin - shit but vocal. |
Back of the net!
DistortR for main striker next season | |
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| Released/Retained list on 08:02 - May 12 with 1808 views | Northernr |
| Released/Retained list on 07:08 - May 12 by dmm |
On the 'Retained' theme, these comments on Sinclair Armstrong are pretty good. Here's hoping the lad will take his game to the next level.
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Positives - he is scary, scary quick. Game changing quick. And we have zero pace in our team.
He's also very strong, and again we're a bit of a weak team, can be bullied etc.
So he's got two things there that we don't have. I was quite excited by the way Gareth used him at Burnley, against really good players. Played to all of his strengths and none of his weaknesses.
Weaknesses - almost everything else. He's not a very good technical footballer, things like first touch, where to go, where to be, where to stand. Basics. First time I saw him, in a friendly at Hampton, I stood behind the dugout and Impey basically spent the game driving him around like a remote control car.
His composure simply doesn't exist, as we saw when he went through on goal at Huddersfield, although I guess there's a chance that's just because he hasn't scored yet and he might relax into it when he does.
And he can't get fit. Big theme for next season after this one for me is your best ability is availability. His attendance record isn't where it needs to be.
But I was quite excited by the Burnley cameo, it was good management from Gareth, and getting the best out of what he's got, which he's going to have to do a lot. |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 08:15 - May 12 with 1758 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Released/Retained list on 08:02 - May 12 by Northernr |
Positives - he is scary, scary quick. Game changing quick. And we have zero pace in our team.
He's also very strong, and again we're a bit of a weak team, can be bullied etc.
So he's got two things there that we don't have. I was quite excited by the way Gareth used him at Burnley, against really good players. Played to all of his strengths and none of his weaknesses.
Weaknesses - almost everything else. He's not a very good technical footballer, things like first touch, where to go, where to be, where to stand. Basics. First time I saw him, in a friendly at Hampton, I stood behind the dugout and Impey basically spent the game driving him around like a remote control car.
His composure simply doesn't exist, as we saw when he went through on goal at Huddersfield, although I guess there's a chance that's just because he hasn't scored yet and he might relax into it when he does.
And he can't get fit. Big theme for next season after this one for me is your best ability is availability. His attendance record isn't where it needs to be.
But I was quite excited by the Burnley cameo, it was good management from Gareth, and getting the best out of what he's got, which he's going to have to do a lot. |
Raw ability, pace and physicality just what we have to build upon. Throw a couple of goals in and he could be on his way to the changing dynamics of the forward line. |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 08:26 - May 12 with 1706 views | Gloucs_R |
| Released/Retained list on 08:02 - May 12 by Northernr |
Positives - he is scary, scary quick. Game changing quick. And we have zero pace in our team.
He's also very strong, and again we're a bit of a weak team, can be bullied etc.
So he's got two things there that we don't have. I was quite excited by the way Gareth used him at Burnley, against really good players. Played to all of his strengths and none of his weaknesses.
Weaknesses - almost everything else. He's not a very good technical footballer, things like first touch, where to go, where to be, where to stand. Basics. First time I saw him, in a friendly at Hampton, I stood behind the dugout and Impey basically spent the game driving him around like a remote control car.
His composure simply doesn't exist, as we saw when he went through on goal at Huddersfield, although I guess there's a chance that's just because he hasn't scored yet and he might relax into it when he does.
And he can't get fit. Big theme for next season after this one for me is your best ability is availability. His attendance record isn't where it needs to be.
But I was quite excited by the Burnley cameo, it was good management from Gareth, and getting the best out of what he's got, which he's going to have to do a lot. |
I personally believe he needs a season in League 1 or league 2 where he's starting every single game and scoring goals. You've already highlighted in what you've just posted that he clearly isn't ready for the championship yet although has potential.
I would offer him another 3-year deal with the first 12 months out on loan. |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 08:28 - May 12 with 1700 views | Northernr |
| Released/Retained list on 08:26 - May 12 by Gloucs_R |
I personally believe he needs a season in League 1 or league 2 where he's starting every single game and scoring goals. You've already highlighted in what you've just posted that he clearly isn't ready for the championship yet although has potential.
I would offer him another 3-year deal with the first 12 months out on loan. |
I don't necessarily disagree mate but I'm not sure we have that luxury, he's going to need to be involved. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 08:46 - May 12 with 1594 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 22:45 - May 11 by PunteR |
Your stance doesn't ring true. It comes across as false optimisism which given the situation of the club makes you look a bit of a simpleton hence the Paul Whitehouse "Brilliant!" Analogy. I know you're not a simpleton given the lengthy and well worded posts you do, hence why I feel your "alternative" point of view doesn't ring true. Surely you can see the club is in a mess and questions really need to be answered. ?.
But who cares? Crack on if this makes you feel better about the club. |
I have no issue with "questions being answered" - far from it. However, I trust Clive to ask them on our collective behalf when given the opportunity, and I trust him to report the answers unfiltered so that we can judge them on their own merits, without preconceived prejudice.
I don't have a particular "stance" as you phrase it, except that I don't believe the Board, DoF, or current management team are a bunch of completely clueless, directionless tw*ts.
I have no issue believing that there are differences of opinion and direction behind the scenes, and that there are likely to be a few lively discussions going on behind the scenes about what the direction of travel needs to be over the coming period, especially with a new-ish management team in place who have openly stated that they want change, and want it fast.
However, I do believe that there is enough talent, experience and common sense and a deeper understanding of where the club is financially amongst the people who have the everyday responsibility of running it, than there is amongst the likes of us, who only see what's on the surface and don't know the full story of what goes on behind the scenes, however much certain people amongst us like to think they do. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 08:52 - May 12 with 1550 views | Dorse |
| Released/Retained list on 08:28 - May 12 by Northernr |
I don't necessarily disagree mate but I'm not sure we have that luxury, he's going to need to be involved. |
Hit the nail on the head. Our current situation means he will be needed here. This will obviously go one of two ways: he'll become Les reborn or a walking, talking stick with which to beat the management. I know which one I'd prefer. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Released/Retained list on 08:52 - May 12 with 1549 views | dmm |
| Released/Retained list on 08:28 - May 12 by Northernr |
I don't necessarily disagree mate but I'm not sure we have that luxury, he's going to need to be involved. |
Yes, indeed. What he does offer, we desperately need, even with the downsides.
Also having played 24 times last season, albeit mostly from the bench, he's not going to want to drop down a league on loan. If the coaches get him to improve his football skills and physical resilience, he'll be a significant attacking weapon for us next season. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 08:55 - May 12 with 1531 views | TheChef |
Re Kelman he had minimal returns in League 2 despite plenty of game time, so I'd be amazed if he suddenly becomes Championship quality. Very happy to be proved wrong! |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 08:59 - May 12 with 1514 views | Headington |
| Released/Retained list on 08:46 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
I have no issue with "questions being answered" - far from it. However, I trust Clive to ask them on our collective behalf when given the opportunity, and I trust him to report the answers unfiltered so that we can judge them on their own merits, without preconceived prejudice.
I don't have a particular "stance" as you phrase it, except that I don't believe the Board, DoF, or current management team are a bunch of completely clueless, directionless tw*ts.
I have no issue believing that there are differences of opinion and direction behind the scenes, and that there are likely to be a few lively discussions going on behind the scenes about what the direction of travel needs to be over the coming period, especially with a new-ish management team in place who have openly stated that they want change, and want it fast.
However, I do believe that there is enough talent, experience and common sense and a deeper understanding of where the club is financially amongst the people who have the everyday responsibility of running it, than there is amongst the likes of us, who only see what's on the surface and don't know the full story of what goes on behind the scenes, however much certain people amongst us like to think they do. |
You may be right, but as others have said the owners don't have the knowledge or football connections of other successful clubs of our size. They have made some very poor appointments over the years, from replacing Warnock with Hughes, for going (and sticking) with Redknapp, and then subsequent managers, inc McLaren. Warburton and Beale were appointed after a process by the DoF and part of a clear plan, with Eustace at one point in pole position to continue after Warburton. Critchley was supposed to be Beale mark 2. Then, according to Ian M on the WLs podcast, Bhatia appointed Ainsworth in a complete reversal of strategy and style. Back to square 1 and in worse finances. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:00 - May 12 with 1509 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 08:28 - May 12 by Northernr |
I don't necessarily disagree mate but I'm not sure we have that luxury, he's going to need to be involved. |
And don't all those things give you some sense as to why GA wants Chris Martin on board as well? You mentioned specifically how Martin was directing Armstrong positionally as the corner came in for the second goal against Burnley for example. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:06 - May 12 with 1489 views | DannyPaddox |
| Released/Retained list on 21:56 - May 11 by distortR |
QPR - shit but local.
Chris Martin - shit but vocal. |
Appearing on a cistern near you soon! |  | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:08 - May 12 with 1472 views | hubble |
This is a thread of desperation, isn't it? Maybe 83 year old Martin could do some kind of mentoring job on the pitch. Maybe non-scoring striker Armstrong might scare the odd team with his pace when he's not injured. Maybe Kelman might prove to be a bit better than he seems. Maybe Taylor Richards will finally sort his issues out by the end of next season. Maybe Gubbins might possibly be all right.
What a spectacular fall from grace, overseen primarily by the one person I had hoped to see released: Les Ferdinand. Yep, go ahead, mark me down Esox! |  |
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| Released/Retained list on 09:19 - May 12 with 1417 views | Northernr |
| Released/Retained list on 09:00 - May 12 by E15Hoop |
And don't all those things give you some sense as to why GA wants Chris Martin on board as well? You mentioned specifically how Martin was directing Armstrong positionally as the corner came in for the second goal against Burnley for example. |
No. | | | |
| Released/Retained list on 09:23 - May 12 with 1388 views | E15Hoop |
| Released/Retained list on 08:59 - May 12 by Headington |
You may be right, but as others have said the owners don't have the knowledge or football connections of other successful clubs of our size. They have made some very poor appointments over the years, from replacing Warnock with Hughes, for going (and sticking) with Redknapp, and then subsequent managers, inc McLaren. Warburton and Beale were appointed after a process by the DoF and part of a clear plan, with Eustace at one point in pole position to continue after Warburton. Critchley was supposed to be Beale mark 2. Then, according to Ian M on the WLs podcast, Bhatia appointed Ainsworth in a complete reversal of strategy and style. Back to square 1 and in worse finances. |
I am in no way an apologist for the Board's previous mistakes, although ny personal feeling is that the Tango and Cash administration are more to blame for introducing and embedding the culture of hubris that only continued in the early days of the current administration pre the DOF appointment. My personal take on it is that the reasoning behind the GA appointment is that someone, be it Amit, Sir Les, Lee Hoos, or more likely a combination of all 3 have finally accepted that the Premier League is a distant pipe dream, and that effectively we're back to where we were 4 or 5 years ago under Ollie.
GA and RD in that context - and this has been my whole point - are actually sound, pragmatic appointments that have a personal interest in making sure that the club is sustainable in the long-term, whilst doing their best to put a playing staff together on a shoestring budget that has as long a potential shelf-life as possible, and where we have a chance of developing assets that might get sold on for a profit in a couple of years' time.
The recent Open All R's episode with the Richard Dobson interview proved emphatically that the philosophy will be to aim to produce rounded footballers who can be successful at this level and hopefully the one above.
In this context GA's request for an expectations reset makes perfect sense - I don't know whether that was to us, the Board or, most likely, both.
In contast to what many posters oin this Forum seem to think I'm saying, I 100% agree with Clive's point that you've actually got to build a new foundation before you can move forwards, but I don't agree with the widely held belief on this forum that in order to do that, you have to chuck all the current bricks away. I trust RD in particular to identify who can be entrusted with embracing a new direction in all senses of the word, and assisting GA to implement it, which will then, in theory at least, establish a blueprint to be followed throughout the club at all levels. | | | |
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