| Andy Belk video....Is this working? 16:14 - Jan 8 with 14115 views | BillericayR |
Been head of recruitment for 3 years.
Analysing possible signings.
Produced a 36 page dossier for Paal.
With our striker recruitment and loans who mostly are always injured or ill is this working?
Would we ever have bought Stan Bowles using this type of analysis?
Now 8 days in to January and still no movement on any possible signings. Are they waiting again for a panic Hendrick signing? |  | | |  |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 20:01 - Jan 10 with 2444 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 19:15 - Jan 10 by golborne |
Adel wasn’t the right sort, in fact he was the worst sort, but won us the league.
And Warnock dumped a bunch of these players early doors in the Prem. Derry for example was really put out, but Prem wasn’t his, or the others level.
So let’s get a bunch of grafters/knuckle draggers in like that lot in South Yorks, get promoted and find we have a team of shadow chasers at that level, who are gonna get it handed to them every week. Or, panic and sign a bunch of stop gaps on big wages to try to fill the enormous cracks.
I’m in the camp of playing good football in the championship, and if by chance we got promoted we might have some foundations.
And do remember we have a Derry in Sam field. Derry had Faurlin alongside, not another clogger. We need Stephan back alongside Field and things will change. When Stephan is in the team and playing well, everything else clicks into place. He works hard and is creative, so we need to look to be replacing him long term, not a nasty bastard! If anybody wants that I suggest the scrubs on a Sunday morning, but you might even be disappointed there - amateur football mostly ain’t even that these days LOL |
I don't think you can play good football in the Championship though. Yes, you can have spells where you look stylish but ultimately it's a 46-game season, often playing at distant Northern grounds on cold and wet midweek evenings.
Critchley does sound like the type who will prioritise gritiness and that's exactly what we need. I don't want to see any more goals like Fleetwood's equaliser. It's not like we're even playing good football anyway - we did in spells under Warburton and a few games earlier in the season, but the home performances this season have been mostly dire. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 20:43 - Jan 10 with 2351 views | Sakura |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 19:26 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
While I appreciate it's one of your favourite things to come on here every couple of weeks and come after me "NorthernR’s strange claim that he took on the role of recruitment analyst in 2015 but didn’t make a signing until August 2017 in Smyth" is not NorthernR's strange claim at all, I was merely quoting what he said in an interview which I have provided a link to. I've no idea whether that one is true or not true, you may not believe him and that's fine, but it's nothing to do with me other than I asked the question and then wrote down what he said.
Nor have I conveniently skipped Sean Goss. I've provided another link to another interview where the manager at the time says that was a pick by Ian Butterworth, who led recruitment before Belk. Again, you choose not to believe it, fine, but I haven't made it up, I asked about Sean Goss, I wrote down the answer, and I've provided the link.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I just don’t like it being so vague what Belk puts his name to. Then puts his hand up for the odd win and gets you cheerleading for him on Willock. That paired with presenting Smyth signing as being his first. But in reality you know that even if Butterworth was the head. Or co- lead as it was back then. Belk is having an input into that. Because that was literally his job
Taking credit for Paal and Willock but quiet on the responsibility for Jack Clarke, Jan Maklaar, little Matt Smith (not the big but striker light weight tidy midfielder in the Goss, Dozzell mould)
If we do make signings this month I want the club to be clear is it Belk/ Les signing his name to making that call. Or is it Critchley getting his way
It’s a crucial role and I would like there to be accountability to it from Les and Belk | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:04 - Jan 10 with 2347 views | QPR_Jim |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 19:29 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
Because look what happens with this ownership when you give the manager everything he wants - Mark Hughes and his special mate Kia. We need a DOF system more than most clubs - maybe not this DOF, and maybe not operating this way, but certainly something between a bloke whose only interest is staving off the sack and making as much money as he can and a guy who'll happily spend £12m on a striker because he enjoyed playing Fifa 15 with him. |
Also no manager, 3 losses away from the sack, is scouting and signing Eze on the off chance he'll be the best player in the squad in 2-3 years time. It's what allowed us to assemble as squad that we feel should be doing better after years of seemingly being stuck at 16th. So the current system is working, maybe not as well as it could but certainly better than the Redknapp and Hughes eras. |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:07 - Jan 10 with 2342 views | daveB |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:31 - Jan 10 by Benny_the_Ball |
They were fringe players. Remember, we're not Man City; we can't afford to build a squad consisting of 2 starting 11s.
Anyway, frankly I'm growing a bit sick and tired of the apologists targeting Warnock for some criticism. He did a terrific job and should be revered rather than reviled. That championship winning team that he built had guts, character, and talent. What I'd give to see a similar team today. [Post edited 10 Jan 2023 18:37]
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fringe players in the current squad getting pelters at the moment so it's all relative.
Warnock did a great job, not sure anyone has suggested otherwise |  | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:15 - Jan 10 with 2328 views | daveB |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:58 - Jan 10 by Sakura |
Belk is undoubtedly at least part of the reason so many of my Saturdays at around 5pm have been so s** t and I think our chances would be improved if he were to leave and as I explained I think it will be healthy for the club to make a change if results don’t quickly improve
Maybe it’s harsh but I feel for the health of this club. If Bhatia is actively looking for Belk and Les’ replacement then that could soon be a good thing. Win at Reading and beat Swansea though and the need for such a change abates massively
I don’t trust him. He’s kept too quiet about the many failed signings. But clearly got NorthernR on side to be noisy about his claimed success on Willock
Now also wanting to take credit for Paal. But funny enough stays quiet on likes of Roberts. And apparently he was skiving for first 18 months of his job so had no involvement in Borysiuk, Ngbakato, Bidwell, Lynch, or Goss
I honestly think if any of those had turned into Eze type sales he would not have kept so firmly distanced from those signings |
I must be missing something here but the fella wasn't in charge of recruitment when we signed those players under Hasselbaink. his role at the time was to provide analytical reports for the manager and dof who would then make the signings.
I get that we're all angry about the current situation but feels odd to be attacking Belk over this, I'd get it a bit more if you talked about players signed in the last 3 years when he has been in charge and had far more of a say in who comes in both good and bad. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:33 - Jan 10 with 2267 views | Northernr |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:15 - Jan 10 by daveB |
I must be missing something here but the fella wasn't in charge of recruitment when we signed those players under Hasselbaink. his role at the time was to provide analytical reports for the manager and dof who would then make the signings.
I get that we're all angry about the current situation but feels odd to be attacking Belk over this, I'd get it a bit more if you talked about players signed in the last 3 years when he has been in charge and had far more of a say in who comes in both good and bad. |
I think the problem here Dave is more that I've defended Belk. |  | | |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:11 - Jan 10 with 2196 views | danehoop |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:33 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
I think the problem here Dave is more that I've defended Belk. |
Ah, so you are part of the Belk Clique then?
Should have guessed it from the annoyingly well researched and reasoned articles that you post on the site. Outrageous non-partisanship will never win you any favours Clive. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:48 - Jan 10 with 2111 views | DejR_vu |
This is why that piece should never have been put out. Why put him in the firing line? | |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:54 - Jan 10 with 2097 views | distortR |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:48 - Jan 10 by DejR_vu |
This is why that piece should never have been put out. Why put him in the firing line? |
it was his turn.
What have we achieved since Jude the Cat became the mascot?
Feline failure, get rid. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 23:16 - Jan 10 with 2054 views | daveB |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 22:48 - Jan 10 by DejR_vu |
This is why that piece should never have been put out. Why put him in the firing line? |
I thought it was quite an interesting video to put out, is good to hear from people behind the scenes who we don't know much about | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 10:25 - Jan 11 with 1837 views | daveB |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 10:12 - Jan 11 by Blue_Castello |
Amusing I've always been tempted to hit the ignore button but never gone that far, guess because I can use my own filter when required, as you say the patience of a saint.
What I would add is that surely there has to be a balance between analytical recruitment and what a manager wants he gets, for instance if Warnock had not been able to have input I'm sure we would never have got Derry and Hill.
Surely some transfers just shout out to you and don't need 36 page documents, plenty on this message board moaning about Lutons transfer policy, surely that's a mixture of analytics and pure visual scouting, lets face it Morris and Woodrow were available when Barnsley got relegated, surely it was a case of who got in first with an offer. It doesn't have to be all analytics to know when a good player is available at the right price but I'm convinced it helps build a strong squad. |
it's always a mix between old fashioned watching players, managers liking players they worked with before, agents putting players forwards and these kind of analytical processes.
There isn't really a right way to do it but like anything the more work and research you put into it the more likely you are to get a better result.
What's changed at QPR is there was literally nothing in place 7/8 years ago, our transfer policy was whatever agents offered us or who the manager wanted and left us in a huge mess. Not just Redknapp/Hughes, that goes back to when Holloway left in 2005 and wasn't exactly great when he was here either.
Now when a manager comes in if he wants to sign a left back he might have someone in mind and if the team have done their job right he'll be a player they are already aware of and have reports on, if that falls through they should have 4/5 other options for the manager as well.
It's a lot better than it was now at QPR but obviously still has a long way to go | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 10:49 - Jan 11 with 1818 views | PinnerPaul |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 16:26 - Jan 10 by Sakura |
You and Antti sure about that? Watch the video yourself he says
2008 to 2015 performance analyst
2015 to 2019 recuitment analyst
Since then in this role
So 2016 signings were very much under his watch and everything since then
Him and ultimately Les
Can’t help but feeling an obvious one is if he was good at his job we would have signed Rico Henry not Jake Bidwell
Remember speaking to Brentford fans and the common line from them all was Bidwell will be a 6 or 7 out of 10 every game. They never thought he was capable of more. Couldn’t cross. No pace. Mediocre. Just about enough for this level
But never a prayer of pushing on to next level as Henry has. Poor selection choice and not just hindsight saying that [Post edited 10 Jan 2023 16:29]
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Clearly IS hindsight saying that.
Also worth remembering that he kept a certain ex player here who was PL quality and worth millions, according to some, out of the Swansea team for over a year! | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 12:57 - Jan 11 with 1665 views | Sakura |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 21:15 - Jan 10 by daveB |
I must be missing something here but the fella wasn't in charge of recruitment when we signed those players under Hasselbaink. his role at the time was to provide analytical reports for the manager and dof who would then make the signings.
I get that we're all angry about the current situation but feels odd to be attacking Belk over this, I'd get it a bit more if you talked about players signed in the last 3 years when he has been in charge and had far more of a say in who comes in both good and bad. |
I disagree that it’s only relevant if he was in charge. It was a very small team. He absolutely would have had some level of input into all of those signings. How much cannot be said for certain but I feel like we can expect to have had a higher success rate then we have had.
He takes at least some of the responsibility for those failings. And part of my problem with him is it’s so vague as to whether he can be seen as a success or failure
He started the role in 2015 around the time funny enough that Washington started his hot streak and one month later he was signed. He must have been asked for his input on that one for example.
But do agree the here and now is more important. A couple of wins and these questions are eased massively
But the entire team likely to start Saturday would have been signed since he was head of his department. It seems a talented squad of fragile characters. If the ability can shine through and we get the wins then great couldn’t be happier. But if this form continues I think it’s fair to question him and at least have more transparency so we can work out whether or not this guy who has a crucial role is performing it well or not [Post edited 11 Jan 2023 13:02]
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 13:56 - Jan 11 with 1594 views | golborne |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 20:01 - Jan 10 by Wegerles_Stairs |
I don't think you can play good football in the Championship though. Yes, you can have spells where you look stylish but ultimately it's a 46-game season, often playing at distant Northern grounds on cold and wet midweek evenings.
Critchley does sound like the type who will prioritise gritiness and that's exactly what we need. I don't want to see any more goals like Fleetwood's equaliser. It's not like we're even playing good football anyway - we did in spells under Warburton and a few games earlier in the season, but the home performances this season have been mostly dire. |
Fulham and Brentford come to mind and tbf Norwich in recent promotion years.
Appreciate that you're always in danger of getting dragged down to the oppo's level, as was Sheff Utds game plan the other week where the manager said in his post match interview "we decided to make the game ugly and stop the flow", but that's them as a club, forever. I haven't grown up watching that at Loftus Rd and I don't want to now. Call me a football romantic, if you like, but this is the mantra I've been lead by: Beauty comes first. Victory is secondary. What matters is joy (late great Socrates). I could take the Sheff Utd result, cos I'd seen a performance I was proud of. I'd seen a team flying near the top of the league submit to the fact that they weren't good enough to play a team languishing circa 10th in a decent, attractive game of football. Yeah, they'll go up, but what then. $hite, emotionless football, but now you're getting it handed to you every week. it's a grim outlook from here. Look what happened to Stoke fans after years of Pulis. There's only so many years of that dog $h!t you can take and they turned on him, even though they were in around the 10 in the Prem every season. Sheff Utd are one of the few sets of fans who could take that, and maybe Leeds - it's in their DNA! | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 14:01 - Jan 11 with 1572 views | derbyhoop |
Hypercritical.
If you've watched the video you should understand how much work goes into assessing potential QPR players. Belk should have a major input but in the end the decisions are made by the manager, the DOF and Hoos, who controls the budget.
We can't expect to get everything right. No club does. But, it's far more professional today than it used to be.
Success stories like Paal, Willock, Dunne and Field and, given our budget, Dykes, stand out. The jury is out on Laird, JCS, Tim and Richards. Even the loanees would have been evaluated. |  |
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Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 14:07 - Jan 11 with 1552 views | QPR_Jim |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 12:57 - Jan 11 by Sakura |
I disagree that it’s only relevant if he was in charge. It was a very small team. He absolutely would have had some level of input into all of those signings. How much cannot be said for certain but I feel like we can expect to have had a higher success rate then we have had.
He takes at least some of the responsibility for those failings. And part of my problem with him is it’s so vague as to whether he can be seen as a success or failure
He started the role in 2015 around the time funny enough that Washington started his hot streak and one month later he was signed. He must have been asked for his input on that one for example.
But do agree the here and now is more important. A couple of wins and these questions are eased massively
But the entire team likely to start Saturday would have been signed since he was head of his department. It seems a talented squad of fragile characters. If the ability can shine through and we get the wins then great couldn’t be happier. But if this form continues I think it’s fair to question him and at least have more transparency so we can work out whether or not this guy who has a crucial role is performing it well or not [Post edited 11 Jan 2023 13:02]
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For all we know he could have been producing lists of targets and comprehensive data on players identifying this weakness but the managers at the time wanted ball playing footballers and overlooked anything he put on there about fragile characters or however you want to put it.
It's not in anyone's interests (Manager, DoF, Chairman) to keep in him place if he's not up to the task, let alone promote him, so at a certain point you have to trust that they have made a good assessment of his input, as they are best placed to know. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 14:22 - Jan 11 with 1521 views | daveB |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 12:57 - Jan 11 by Sakura |
I disagree that it’s only relevant if he was in charge. It was a very small team. He absolutely would have had some level of input into all of those signings. How much cannot be said for certain but I feel like we can expect to have had a higher success rate then we have had.
He takes at least some of the responsibility for those failings. And part of my problem with him is it’s so vague as to whether he can be seen as a success or failure
He started the role in 2015 around the time funny enough that Washington started his hot streak and one month later he was signed. He must have been asked for his input on that one for example.
But do agree the here and now is more important. A couple of wins and these questions are eased massively
But the entire team likely to start Saturday would have been signed since he was head of his department. It seems a talented squad of fragile characters. If the ability can shine through and we get the wins then great couldn’t be happier. But if this form continues I think it’s fair to question him and at least have more transparency so we can work out whether or not this guy who has a crucial role is performing it well or not [Post edited 11 Jan 2023 13:02]
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He may well have been asked to compile reports on players like Washington or others, not really any different to a scout being asked to watch a player and provide a report but it's pretty rare if the signing doesn't work out that the scout is blamed. The final call to sign him would have been the manager and Ferdinand. None of it is an exact science though.
Also not sure what responsibility you want him to take? No one is saying he has done a great job and is a big success, I'd argue since he took over in the current role we've been better in the transfer market but thats still needs to be a lot better to move the club forward. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 14:40 - Jan 11 with 1487 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 18:31 - Jan 10 by Benny_the_Ball |
They were fringe players. Remember, we're not Man City; we can't afford to build a squad consisting of 2 starting 11s.
Anyway, frankly I'm growing a bit sick and tired of the apologists targeting Warnock for some criticism. He did a terrific job and should be revered rather than reviled. That championship winning team that he built had guts, character, and talent. What I'd give to see a similar team today. [Post edited 10 Jan 2023 18:37]
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By far the most important thing Warnock did was get Adel Taarabt. Credit also for getting off to a good start, thanks to plenty of luck, which made his position impregnable by the time Briatore got back into circulation after Crashgate.
Otherwise there were pluse and minuses. | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 15:05 - Jan 11 with 1434 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Happy to accept what Northernr says about Belk and understand the importance of data in professional football.
It surprises me though that there is next to no reference on this thread to the other side of the equation. The players choice. You can produce lists of the right sort of player to your hearts content but if they are not willing to join you there's little point.
If I was a youngish player of good Championship ability with aspirations of getting to the Prem League why on earth would I choose QPR? It seems we have only one particular thing going for us. West London. Heston might be another soon.
Otherwise the manager/coach could be a very important consideration. Do I trust this manager to give me a fair chance. Will I play in my best position etc etc. That is why in our situation the manager's input is still very important and no doubt why we have Warburton and Beale players.
Perhaps otherwise nobody but mercenarys would have turned up? | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:18 - Jan 11 with 1314 views | Sakura |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 14:22 - Jan 11 by daveB |
He may well have been asked to compile reports on players like Washington or others, not really any different to a scout being asked to watch a player and provide a report but it's pretty rare if the signing doesn't work out that the scout is blamed. The final call to sign him would have been the manager and Ferdinand. None of it is an exact science though.
Also not sure what responsibility you want him to take? No one is saying he has done a great job and is a big success, I'd argue since he took over in the current role we've been better in the transfer market but thats still needs to be a lot better to move the club forward. |
The responsibility I am getting is sacking him
And also Les and Amit hiring better alternatives if results don’t improve.
This team is soft but talented. There’s been deficiencies in our recruitment and Belk must be part of this
If it goes well give him credit but if keeps good badly it might soon be time to show him and Les the door | | | |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 13:18 - Jan 12 with 1119 views | OldPedro |
| Andy Belk video....Is this working? on 17:18 - Jan 11 by Sakura |
The responsibility I am getting is sacking him
And also Les and Amit hiring better alternatives if results don’t improve.
This team is soft but talented. There’s been deficiencies in our recruitment and Belk must be part of this
If it goes well give him credit but if keeps good badly it might soon be time to show him and Les the door |
Belk could have recommended loads of players that fit the criteria you think are currently missing , we don't know. It could be that those deals couldn't be done for a variety of reasons such as contracts, transfer fees, player not wanting to join, DOF / Manager not wanting them. |  |
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