| Morning after thread 08:45 - Dec 30 with 7655 views | wortonranger |
Good
~ Luton’s 1st and 3rd goals ( “goal of the season..Sky comms)
~ Dykes tried hard and not as bad as some claim
~ Some brilliant skills displayed at odd moments and places
~ no yellow cards
Bad
~ can’t cross a ball to a specific place /player
~ midfielders not supporting quickly or with confidence
~ general air of sleepiness
~ not taking responsibility
Critchley needs time
Team needs JOJO
Team needs some lucky breaks |  | | |  |
| Morning after thread on 10:56 - Dec 30 with 2094 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Morning after thread on 10:01 - Dec 30 by gazza1 |
I have just watched the goals that we conceded.....
Goal1......the wide right Luton player had a lot of space/time, not sure why he was allowed to move inside, Scorer got a bit of luck with the shot, going through Lairds legs.
Goal2.....Dykes lost the goalscorer on the far post.
Goal3.....Proper strike. |
Goal 2...._unless Dykes was standing on the far-post he wasn't stopping that...I think you may have missed Paal's assist...
Anyone to call out for poor play for 1st and 3rd goals when none of our 9 outfield players other than Dykes didn't put a challenge in?
Or should we just hijack another thread to load up on Dykes. |  | | |
| Morning after thread on 10:59 - Dec 30 with 2092 views | baz_qpr |
`I dont buy the not enough effort argument. I think pretty much every player (bar Roberts) put in the required effort.
What we were was disorganised, not well drilled. Playing a new formation with some new partnerships that had not played there before. Tim / Field in a 2 Shodipo / Laird on the right.
Roberts spent most of the first 60 minutes in no mans land, neither getting close enough to Dykes, or to the wide players.
Chair and Shodipo played very wide (we've been narrow and compact all season going in to out) and that left our attacking players often isolated.
Tim did not seem to know if he was playing 6 or 8 (4-2-3-1 at its best works with a 6 holding and an 8 playmaker)
I think what happened is Critchley took a gamble to be more open and attacking in formation in order to trial and deal with the goal scoring hoodoo, but we have not spent enough time on the training pitch working on it.
I would also say we are badly suffering for both Warburton and Beales approach of giving the players total free reign in the attacking 3rd rather than working on a number of set patterns of play. So when confidence is drained we keep coming up empty. Watch Pep's city despite the ridiculous front 3 they have they still have attacking patterns of play its not a free for all |  | | |
| Morning after thread on 11:01 - Dec 30 with 2080 views | ozexile |
| Morning after thread on 10:44 - Dec 30 by actonman |
“Our throw ins are shocking its so basic but we lose possession on nearly every throw “
As little as this seems but I have noticed this has been an issue for years !
Take throws too quick to players marked by 2 or 3
Nobody shows for the ball
Foul throws etc , I would love to see some sort of stat but the only time we ever retain the ball after a throw in is when we go back to a defender .
And another fing ! Why when we have a free kick or possession in our own half , pass it sideways then back to keeper then back to the original player with now opposing players chasing him down to then fcuk it up the field under pressure to nowhere?
Play the pass forward in the first place ffs !!! |
Totally agree it's called a modern football miracle. A bit like the new rule now that just because a gk can play it to a defender in the box from a goal kick, you have to do it. And somehow if you don't play that way you're some sort of Luddite. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 11:23 - Dec 30 with 2028 views | francisbowles |
I was at the ground and ITV hasn't showed their Championship programme yet, why?
So I have only had one look at the game and goals. Their first was a speculative shot that, more or less, trickled into the corner. Their second came from what, on the far side of the pitch, looked a soft award of a free kick with Dykes then losing his man at the far post. Their third was a well taken goal when we were chasing the game.
I haven't seen any stats and, from memory, Luton didn't seem to trouble our goal many times. A couple of early saves for Seny and then the goals.
Performance wise, we were on the attack most of the game and hence no bookings for desperate saving tackles. We didn't look that bad most of the time, however, the final ball was poor and we aren't getting anyone into the box or close enough to Dykes. Dykes reminds me of Matt Smith. When he wins his headers know one knows in which direction the ball is going to go.
I actually thought Tyler Roberts was pretty good at times last night. Lost a few tackles but who didn't in a tight midfield. Shodipo wasn't too bad either. Looked a bit like he didn't always know where he should be when Laird went forward and Roberts came across but that's hardly surprising as he hasn't started with either before.
Yes, I saw slumped shoulders and poor body language after the second goal and Ilias at times trying too hard, hanging onto the ball and trying to do it all on his own but I put that down to frustration and little going right for them at the moment.
Overall a very disappointing result and the manager will have learnt a lot about this group of players. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 11:32 - Dec 30 with 1972 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Morning after thread on 10:49 - Dec 30 by Rangersw12 |
Roberts pulled out of a header 6 yards from there goal |
Yes, I was in line with it (would have been missed by most in the crowd) but that was truly shocking, not sure I've seen a lack of courage like that in a long time,
Actually thought he played ok in 2nd Half but you're not going to survive long in the Championship (which is his level) lacking bottle. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 11:34 - Dec 30 with 1962 views | daveB |
| Morning after thread on 11:23 - Dec 30 by francisbowles |
I was at the ground and ITV hasn't showed their Championship programme yet, why?
So I have only had one look at the game and goals. Their first was a speculative shot that, more or less, trickled into the corner. Their second came from what, on the far side of the pitch, looked a soft award of a free kick with Dykes then losing his man at the far post. Their third was a well taken goal when we were chasing the game.
I haven't seen any stats and, from memory, Luton didn't seem to trouble our goal many times. A couple of early saves for Seny and then the goals.
Performance wise, we were on the attack most of the game and hence no bookings for desperate saving tackles. We didn't look that bad most of the time, however, the final ball was poor and we aren't getting anyone into the box or close enough to Dykes. Dykes reminds me of Matt Smith. When he wins his headers know one knows in which direction the ball is going to go.
I actually thought Tyler Roberts was pretty good at times last night. Lost a few tackles but who didn't in a tight midfield. Shodipo wasn't too bad either. Looked a bit like he didn't always know where he should be when Laird went forward and Roberts came across but that's hardly surprising as he hasn't started with either before.
Yes, I saw slumped shoulders and poor body language after the second goal and Ilias at times trying too hard, hanging onto the ball and trying to do it all on his own but I put that down to frustration and little going right for them at the moment.
Overall a very disappointing result and the manager will have learnt a lot about this group of players. |
The highlight show is on now on ITV4 and should be on ITVX to view this afternoon if it's not already |  | | |
| Morning after thread on 11:44 - Dec 30 with 1914 views | francisbowles |
| Morning after thread on 11:34 - Dec 30 by daveB |
The highlight show is on now on ITV4 and should be on ITVX to view this afternoon if it's not already |
Yes thanks daveb. My internet went down as I was writing my post, so it was posted more than an hour later. Watching 'highlights' now, not last night as usual, and have seen the goals again. Hadn't noticed the first one going through Laird's legs or the second coming off Pal's? head. The first one looks a more firmly struck shot on TV than it did from behind the scorer last night. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 11:44 - Dec 30 with 1911 views | ericgen34 |
| Morning after thread on 11:23 - Dec 30 by francisbowles |
I was at the ground and ITV hasn't showed their Championship programme yet, why?
So I have only had one look at the game and goals. Their first was a speculative shot that, more or less, trickled into the corner. Their second came from what, on the far side of the pitch, looked a soft award of a free kick with Dykes then losing his man at the far post. Their third was a well taken goal when we were chasing the game.
I haven't seen any stats and, from memory, Luton didn't seem to trouble our goal many times. A couple of early saves for Seny and then the goals.
Performance wise, we were on the attack most of the game and hence no bookings for desperate saving tackles. We didn't look that bad most of the time, however, the final ball was poor and we aren't getting anyone into the box or close enough to Dykes. Dykes reminds me of Matt Smith. When he wins his headers know one knows in which direction the ball is going to go.
I actually thought Tyler Roberts was pretty good at times last night. Lost a few tackles but who didn't in a tight midfield. Shodipo wasn't too bad either. Looked a bit like he didn't always know where he should be when Laird went forward and Roberts came across but that's hardly surprising as he hasn't started with either before.
Yes, I saw slumped shoulders and poor body language after the second goal and Ilias at times trying too hard, hanging onto the ball and trying to do it all on his own but I put that down to frustration and little going right for them at the moment.
Overall a very disappointing result and the manager will have learnt a lot about this group of players. |
I was there too and that is more or less how I saw the game too. The team did look low on confidence but they did try. What I could see that is more difficult to see on a stream was a lack of movement off the ball.
I liked Richards when he came on, he did provide more movement off the ball, and a clever run spotted by Willock brought the great chance that Dykes and Uncs wasted. More of that kind of stuff please (but not the misses of course) |  | | |
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| Morning after thread on 11:50 - Dec 30 with 1879 views | enfieldargh |
| Morning after thread on 10:44 - Dec 30 by actonman |
“Our throw ins are shocking its so basic but we lose possession on nearly every throw “
As little as this seems but I have noticed this has been an issue for years !
Take throws too quick to players marked by 2 or 3
Nobody shows for the ball
Foul throws etc , I would love to see some sort of stat but the only time we ever retain the ball after a throw in is when we go back to a defender .
And another fing ! Why when we have a free kick or possession in our own half , pass it sideways then back to keeper then back to the original player with now opposing players chasing him down to then fcuk it up the field under pressure to nowhere?
Play the pass forward in the first place ffs !!! |
this is sickening and counter productive.
Why at a corner do all our players go centre goal to near post with nobody attacking the far post.
A lot of this is rtendered insignificant when the corner doesnt go near any of them.
I left after keystone cops strikers both failed to make contact in around 87th minute.
Heard boos I guess at the final whistle, was halfway back to A40. Cant have been many left inside and would have been the die hards who remained |  |
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| Morning after thread on 11:56 - Dec 30 with 1854 views | RsinWales |
I am just glad I am not NC. We have so many problems to fix, a number of which were becoming evident in the last few games of Beale's reign.
No prizes for spotting that we lack cutting edge, but our speed of transition from back to front is clearly adding to the problem. Last night we were often attacking with Luton having 10 or 11 players defending. Our one-paced tippy-tappy stuff is just so easy to defend because it is so predictable.
Any end-result is so difficult to achieve because our attacks end with:
1. Chair trying to score a miracle goal, as nothing else is on
2. Dykes isolated and heavily marked, trying to win a high ball
We are the same game after game after game. The higher possession stats probably hide just how easy to handle we are. I think the players know it doesn't work and the lack of belief is becoming evident. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 13:12 - Dec 30 with 1683 views | 1JD |
| Morning after thread on 10:49 - Dec 30 by Rangersw12 |
Roberts pulled out of a header 6 yards from there goal |
And Tim was neck and neck for a penalty opportunity near R block. Faster than the bloke. But didn’t fancy being clattered, visibly slowed up, and in the end he gave away a free kick instead. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 13:17 - Dec 30 with 1674 views | kensalriser |
Has anyone seen our midfield?
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| Morning after thread on 13:20 - Dec 30 with 1667 views | 1JD |
| Morning after thread on 10:01 - Dec 30 by gazza1 |
I have just watched the goals that we conceded.....
Goal1......the wide right Luton player had a lot of space/time, not sure why he was allowed to move inside, Scorer got a bit of luck with the shot, going through Lairds legs.
Goal2.....Dykes lost the goalscorer on the far post.
Goal3.....Proper strike. |
Goal 3 doesn’t happen if Tim isn’t found ball watching.
A great strike yes, but watch again, and Doughty runs off him for fun. If you track the run - absolute basics - you are shoulder to shoulder with your marker, and either get there BEFORE there is an opportunity to strike a worldly, or you manage to put him off so he doesn’t get a clean strike.
The goal is symptomatic of the side in general. Lacking work rate, and lacking desire. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 13:56 - Dec 30 with 1594 views | gazza1 |
| Morning after thread on 10:56 - Dec 30 by ParkRoyalR |
Goal 2...._unless Dykes was standing on the far-post he wasn't stopping that...I think you may have missed Paal's assist...
Anyone to call out for poor play for 1st and 3rd goals when none of our 9 outfield players other than Dykes didn't put a challenge in?
Or should we just hijack another thread to load up on Dykes. |
No question it was Dykes man, deflection or not(and yes I saw the deflection)......100%.
its a shame that you cannot agree that Dykes lost the goalscorer and get a free gaol!!! [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 13:59]
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| Morning after thread on 14:09 - Dec 30 with 1527 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Morning after thread on 13:56 - Dec 30 by gazza1 |
No question it was Dykes man, deflection or not(and yes I saw the deflection)......100%.
its a shame that you cannot agree that Dykes lost the goalscorer and get a free gaol!!! [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 13:59]
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So of the 3 goals conceded, your take-away and the only player you name-check and call-out is Dykes.
Maybe, just maybe, Dykes anticipated Paal making a routine headed clearance. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 14:23 - Dec 30 with 1499 views | BrianMcCarthy |
There were at least five questions about Morris's second goal:
1) Why were we three-on-one at the back of the line?
2) Why didn't Dykes beat Morris to the ball?
3) Why didn't Field beat Morris to the ball?
4) Who lost Potts?
and
5) Why was their striker seemingly left to Field and Dykes, and not to Dunne (for instance) who was the free one of the three at the back of the line.
Of the five questions, it's the last that puzzles me the most. |  |
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| Morning after thread on 14:23 - Dec 30 with 1494 views | Sonofpugwash |
Morning after curry bum.Game was boring so decided to knock together a chicken and mushroom biryani whilst watching the game.The excitement of the Dykes miss prompted a wrist spasm and too much Rajah Hot Madras Powder landed in the wok.Currently wandering around the house humming "my arse is on fire" to the tune of Mull Of Kintyre. |  |
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| Morning after thread on 14:38 - Dec 30 with 1458 views | gazza1 |
| Morning after thread on 14:23 - Dec 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
There were at least five questions about Morris's second goal:
1) Why were we three-on-one at the back of the line?
2) Why didn't Dykes beat Morris to the ball?
3) Why didn't Field beat Morris to the ball?
4) Who lost Potts?
and
5) Why was their striker seemingly left to Field and Dykes, and not to Dunne (for instance) who was the free one of the three at the back of the line.
Of the five questions, it's the last that puzzles me the most. |
Answers to your questions.....
1 - I doubt if we were 3-1 at the back post although it may look like that. Watch Dykes and Morris movement and you will see that he was Dykes man - 100%.
2 - Because he was half asleep, look how far he was away from Dykes whne he scored.
3 - Field had other responsibilities, Morris was not Field's man.
4 - Dont know who lost Potts - why do you ask??
5 - Dunne and others had other responsibilities, Morris was, or should have been, marked by Dykes, not Field or Dunne.
Why does Q5 puzzle you the most?? It would be very clear to the Players what they were meant to be doing at set pieces (whom they would be marking, perhaps where if zonal, depending on where the free kick or corner is being taken, etc etc) planned during the week during training or team discussions depending on many things. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 15:00 - Dec 30 with 1381 views | Third_Division_South |
| Morning after thread on 10:44 - Dec 30 by actonman |
“Our throw ins are shocking its so basic but we lose possession on nearly every throw “
As little as this seems but I have noticed this has been an issue for years !
Take throws too quick to players marked by 2 or 3
Nobody shows for the ball
Foul throws etc , I would love to see some sort of stat but the only time we ever retain the ball after a throw in is when we go back to a defender .
And another fing ! Why when we have a free kick or possession in our own half , pass it sideways then back to keeper then back to the original player with now opposing players chasing him down to then fcuk it up the field under pressure to nowhere?
Play the pass forward in the first place ffs !!! |
The free kick thing winds me up as well. We are given a free kick, we always just touch the ball and take it quickly. It usually goes backwards. Why not, just for once, take a breath, push the players and take it long? | | | |
| Morning after thread on 15:00 - Dec 30 with 1378 views | BrianMcCarthy |
1 - I doubt if we were 3-1 at the back post although it may look like that.
We were 3-1 at the back post. I've just watched the video again to make sure. I see no reason for it at all.
2 - Because he was half asleep, look how far he was away from Dykes whne he scored.
Agreed. 100%.
3 - Field had other responsibilities, Morris was not Field's man.
We don't know whose man Morris was. He was between Dykes and Field. I tend to agree with you that he was probably Dykes's, but we have no way of knowing for sure. Either way, Field still has to run back to cover the danger. Basics.
4 - Dont know who lost Potts - why do you ask??
Because it's bad play by another of our players. Potts was unmarked as well. Basics, again.
5 - Dunne and others had other responsibilities
No, he didn't. He's all on his own so wasn't man-marking, and we weren't playing zonal. And he didn't track back quickly enough. Basics again.
Why does Q5 puzzle you the most??
Because it's a systemic failure as well as a momentary individual failure, either due to rank bad management in not assigning a specialist defender to the striker in the pre-game planning, or else due to the players making a really simple error with none of them clever enough to figure it out.
Either way, three (and maybe four, if Potts was to be picked up by AN Other) players were really poor on that set piece, and possibly the pre-game planning as well. | |
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| Morning after thread on 15:07 - Dec 30 with 1326 views | RsinWales |
Agree it was a systemic failure. Really bad organisation leading to two Luton players having a fairly simple chance to convert. First player missed the ball completely, second knocked it home.
Leaky at the back, slow in transition and uninventive/toothless in attack is a pretty terrible set of traits for any team. I hope NC is a genuine genius or there is some cash hidden in a cookie jar in Lee Hoos' office - otherwise it is going to be a tough 2023. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 15:28 - Dec 30 with 1276 views | Monkey_Roots |
More overreaction and doom and gloom on here than usual today.
We’re going through some sh1t here, no doubt.
I didn’t think we played awful, I’ve seen much much worse. Roberts’ header goes in or Dyke’s first calamitous but very close miss goes in at 2-1, and the game may have gone a different way. The effort was there for me, but that’s just my opinion.
I’m cognisant that our season has been thrown into chaos, some players will feel cheated by what’s happened, uncertain as to what will happen - they bought into a guy who has turned out to be a bit of a sh1t, and are now trying to get to grips with what the next guy wants - it’s probably going to be inconsistent for a while, especially when you add in a weird season break.
Our strike force is pretty awful, and can’t be relied upon to get us out of the sh1t and provide us with that catalyst for the fight back. NC can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, he needs a transfer window to shift some dead wood and the right amount of time prior to that transfer window to assess for himself where our weaknesses are, before deciding how and who to bring in.
Willock has been poor since his injury, Chair has been on an unbelievable journey of his own and may need a bit of time to get his head back in to what’s needed - a lot has happened since he left for Qatar. Shodipo might be training like a lion and NC feels he deserves his opportunity whilst Willock is suffering for form.
A lot of assumptions being made - what else can we go with? But, I think we need to accept that the situation we find ourselves in means that we need time to settle NC in, time for him to make decisions on players and systems, time for him to get his ideas and strategies across. Write this season off and put it at the feet of MB.
All that being said, We’ll probably beat Sheffield United on Monday.
:) |  | | |
| Morning after thread on 15:53 - Dec 30 with 1209 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Morning after thread on 10:59 - Dec 30 by baz_qpr |
`I dont buy the not enough effort argument. I think pretty much every player (bar Roberts) put in the required effort.
What we were was disorganised, not well drilled. Playing a new formation with some new partnerships that had not played there before. Tim / Field in a 2 Shodipo / Laird on the right.
Roberts spent most of the first 60 minutes in no mans land, neither getting close enough to Dykes, or to the wide players.
Chair and Shodipo played very wide (we've been narrow and compact all season going in to out) and that left our attacking players often isolated.
Tim did not seem to know if he was playing 6 or 8 (4-2-3-1 at its best works with a 6 holding and an 8 playmaker)
I think what happened is Critchley took a gamble to be more open and attacking in formation in order to trial and deal with the goal scoring hoodoo, but we have not spent enough time on the training pitch working on it.
I would also say we are badly suffering for both Warburton and Beales approach of giving the players total free reign in the attacking 3rd rather than working on a number of set patterns of play. So when confidence is drained we keep coming up empty. Watch Pep's city despite the ridiculous front 3 they have they still have attacking patterns of play its not a free for all |
Not turning this into a City /Pep love fest thread but the most amazing thing about City.
Pure drive and energy to fight for the ball once they lose it.I watched multiple times KDB , Foden even Jack sprint back to help recover the ball like they committed a sin losing it
Most other team us included let the next line of players recover the ball which puts serious pressure on the back line .
We need 100% from all our entire squad of players to get this sinking ship afloat and over the next few games before our annual losing streak picks up steam |  | | |
| Morning after thread on 16:18 - Dec 30 with 1144 views | gazza1 |
| Morning after thread on 15:00 - Dec 30 by BrianMcCarthy |
1 - I doubt if we were 3-1 at the back post although it may look like that.
We were 3-1 at the back post. I've just watched the video again to make sure. I see no reason for it at all.
2 - Because he was half asleep, look how far he was away from Dykes whne he scored.
Agreed. 100%.
3 - Field had other responsibilities, Morris was not Field's man.
We don't know whose man Morris was. He was between Dykes and Field. I tend to agree with you that he was probably Dykes's, but we have no way of knowing for sure. Either way, Field still has to run back to cover the danger. Basics.
4 - Dont know who lost Potts - why do you ask??
Because it's bad play by another of our players. Potts was unmarked as well. Basics, again.
5 - Dunne and others had other responsibilities
No, he didn't. He's all on his own so wasn't man-marking, and we weren't playing zonal. And he didn't track back quickly enough. Basics again.
Why does Q5 puzzle you the most??
Because it's a systemic failure as well as a momentary individual failure, either due to rank bad management in not assigning a specialist defender to the striker in the pre-game planning, or else due to the players making a really simple error with none of them clever enough to figure it out.
Either way, three (and maybe four, if Potts was to be picked up by AN Other) players were really poor on that set piece, and possibly the pre-game planning as well. |
I have looked at the free kick very closely Brian 
1 - Yes I agree that there were 3 at the back post......not sure why tbh. You may have a point about Field but I am not sure that he was responsible for stopping Morris but maybe he was there to stop the shorter lower cross, idk. BUT look at Dykes when Morris makes his initial movement run, stops and then starts again, he is then free. Agreed there was Field and Dykes watching Morris score, perhaps some talking should have been going on. Gut feeling it was Dykes who should be dealing with the cross.
3 - Agreed.
4 - Tim was nowhere near Potts but I think that he was the marker.
5 - I get what you are saying but if Dunne was not there then a big gap would appear so I presume he was free and zonal if the ball came in that area....not exactly sure but we cannot have a big gap in the defensive line.
TBH I really do not understand all this stuff any more because I was always taught to get 'goal side' of the opposition but now with the offside rule or whatever they do not play it that way. | | | |
| Morning after thread on 16:56 - Dec 30 with 1077 views | gobbles |
| Morning after thread on 10:47 - Dec 30 by loftusranger |
This was the big thing for me last night. The set up did not get bodies in the box. Shodipo and Chair held the touchline. Field and Tim played deep and Roberts seemed to be in the number 10 role but only made it into the box in the first 15-20 minutes. As the game went on he seemed to get deeper and deeper. We started the second half having Shopido and Laird getting into crossing positions every time we had the ball. Chair didn't see the ball but he was never attacking the back post. Surely one of the centre mids could have got in the box and gambled when we were two down?
Dykes isnt the best but when he's marked by 3 he's working off scraps. His chances were scrambled chances compared to Morris who had time for his. [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 10:48]
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Our midfield has zero goals in it. Johansen is desperately missed as not only the only player who passes the ball forward and links play, but as someone who actually threatens to get in the box. Field doesn't get out of his own half apart from set-pieces. Tim I is great when running on the ball but still hasn't scored or got a single assist in now 18 games, which obviously put him behind Seny Dieng in such figures. The way we are struggling, I don't know why we just don't send Dieng up for every corner and have a couple of fast players deep covering. |  | | |
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