| Reading in Trouble? on 11:30 - Dec 2 with 4895 views | Northernr |
It's been another Derby waiting to happen for a long time that club. |  | |  |
| Reading in Trouble? on 11:45 - Dec 2 with 4825 views | MrSheen |
Another three points thrown away. Just our luck. |  | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 11:58 - Dec 2 with 4768 views | Juzzie |
Football clubs need to wake up.
Stop paying players & agents insanely stupid amounts of money.
Yes, it'll be a bit sh*t for a few years but it will settle down and we'll then have clubs still in existence and players all being paid a reasonable salary for kicking a bit of leather around.
If clubs then go and break the bank to get a particular player they deserve everything they get. |  | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 12:22 - Dec 2 with 4705 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Been waiting to happen. A big club is going to go into liquidation eventuall, I think it has to occur just so something happens to sort this all out.
Reading were a League 1/2 club 30 years ago, they've been on steroids since then trying to compete. |  | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 12:40 - Dec 2 with 4623 views | themodfather |
the game is in trouble and the question for me is, have agent's helped the game? | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 12:51 - Dec 2 with 4541 views | davman |
| Reading in Trouble? on 11:58 - Dec 2 by Juzzie |
Football clubs need to wake up.
Stop paying players & agents insanely stupid amounts of money.
Yes, it'll be a bit sh*t for a few years but it will settle down and we'll then have clubs still in existence and players all being paid a reasonable salary for kicking a bit of leather around.
If clubs then go and break the bank to get a particular player they deserve everything they get. |
They do, but then football in general needs to wake up. The money available in that poxy top league means that people will gamble their own children to have a piece of the pie, safe in the knowledge that they will be able to walk away even if the club folds.
Fans, of clubs like ours, also need to wake tf up - "Sign a striker"; "Ferdinand / Hoos out because they didn't give Warbs all the players we need or because our second string is so very, very poor"; Get a new Stadium; "refurbish and grow our stadium"; "sign Mark Robins"; "give Willock and Chair new contracts before they leave for nothing"; "How did we only get £200k for BOS and Manning".
All money decisions. All of them. The rules stop us from addressing all these things, yet we see others doing it, so thats what we should do.
The rules are shocking - if owners can afford to and GIVE the money to clubs, there should be no reason to have them in place (unless you want to protect the Big 6 (of which 2 have effectively spent WAY, WAY outside of their means to get into that club...). BUT they are the rules we have signed up to.
...where those rewards are on offer, we'll get QPRs, Derbys, Villas, Forests, Bournemouths, Sheff Weds, Readings, etc. etc, stretching more than they should; some will land on their feet; others (inevitably us, its always us) will fail spectacularly.
So, as with all the unilateral disarmament scenarios, those who play by the rules and pay only what they can will slowly descend through the leagues to settle at a place commensurate with their income. So, League One (at best) here we come!
A case in point why owners gamble... |  |
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| Reading in Trouble? on 12:53 - Dec 2 with 4525 views | enfieldargh |
players & staff only got 80% of their wages but U21's got nothing!!! |  |
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| Reading in Trouble? on 12:59 - Dec 2 with 4492 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Reading in Trouble? on 11:58 - Dec 2 by Juzzie |
Football clubs need to wake up.
Stop paying players & agents insanely stupid amounts of money.
Yes, it'll be a bit sh*t for a few years but it will settle down and we'll then have clubs still in existence and players all being paid a reasonable salary for kicking a bit of leather around.
If clubs then go and break the bank to get a particular player they deserve everything they get. |
I agree.
Fans can do their part and lower expectations too.
We have 50,000 posts on how shit Les and Lee and are doing on this website, just because they are trying to ween the club off big wages and big transfers, and as obnoxious as he is it's not all from Wegerles Stairs and Stained's Elbow. Plenty of others have too.
We should all swallow our medicine and accept we probably won't ever compete with Man City and shouldn't put our club on the line trying.
Solidarity with Reading fans. |  | | |
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| Reading in Trouble? on 13:04 - Dec 2 with 4469 views | Juzzie |
Yeah, I should really have said "football needs to wake up" because it's a massive problem throughout.... from clubs to players to agents to fans and so on. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 16:08 - Dec 2 with 4150 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Reading in Trouble? on 12:59 - Dec 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I agree.
Fans can do their part and lower expectations too.
We have 50,000 posts on how shit Les and Lee and are doing on this website, just because they are trying to ween the club off big wages and big transfers, and as obnoxious as he is it's not all from Wegerles Stairs and Stained's Elbow. Plenty of others have too.
We should all swallow our medicine and accept we probably won't ever compete with Man City and shouldn't put our club on the line trying.
Solidarity with Reading fans. |
You keep dragging people into your posts. You're a happy clapper who thinks everything Les does is great - bravo, have a gold star and pat yourself on the back as you're clearly a loyal supporter. Other people don't - that doesn't necessarily make us 'obnoxious'.
And to repeat (as you're clearly not the brightest), I'm not stainrods_elbow. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 17:27 - Dec 2 with 3955 views | Northernr |
| Reading in Trouble? on 16:08 - Dec 2 by Wegerles_Stairs |
You keep dragging people into your posts. You're a happy clapper who thinks everything Les does is great - bravo, have a gold star and pat yourself on the back as you're clearly a loyal supporter. Other people don't - that doesn't necessarily make us 'obnoxious'.
And to repeat (as you're clearly not the brightest), I'm not stainrods_elbow. |
As I also used the word ‘obnoxious’ when replying to SE the other night, let me clarify a couple of points.
1 - I do think it's obnoxious to treat and say to other posters on here who disagree with you that they're simply too stupid/thick/closed minded to understand the post and engage with it. Which Stainrod has done and still does. That's why I said obnoxious, not because of his point of view, which he is of course entitled to, and I often agree with (though not this week).
2 - And this is a good thread to mention this again, given what's happening at Reading, if my sources are right and 12 months from now we end up with FFP problems again, a shortfall we can't cover with player sales, potential transfer embargo, even potential points off, then I'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with Stainrod's Elbow and yourself chucking the same criticism their way.
The big sell from Ferdinand and Hoos is basically 'yeh it's sht, yeh it's tough, yeh we're struggling to compete, but the club is being run sensibly now, those days of excess and mismanagement are long behind us, we'll take tough and unpopular decisions to protect the club'. If it's sht, and tough, and we can't compete, and we're taking tough and unpopular decisions and we breach FFP anyway... then what's the point of them? Then there are all sorts of legitimate questions about why they allowed themselves, last summer, to do Gray, Austin, Johansen, Field, De Wijs, Dunne, Dozzell, Archer, McCallum at considerable expense, which essentially drove them into a cul-de-sac from which they can only escape by selling a player.
If that were to come to pass then they'd deserve a rinsing but if Stainrod has spent the previous two years bringing Lee Hoos up in threads about why our set piece defending is so bad, then people are going to have stopped listening.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 18:30 - Dec 2 with 3775 views | dmm |
How closely do we think clubs can analyse the financial position of other clubs from which they want to recruit?
In other words, if we're up to our necks in shit and have to sell a player to stay afloat, does that mean a buying club would be able to accurately assess the situation and bid accordingly?
I assume the answer would be an absolute yes. |  | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 18:39 - Dec 2 with 3749 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Reading in Trouble? on 17:27 - Dec 2 by Northernr |
As I also used the word ‘obnoxious’ when replying to SE the other night, let me clarify a couple of points.
1 - I do think it's obnoxious to treat and say to other posters on here who disagree with you that they're simply too stupid/thick/closed minded to understand the post and engage with it. Which Stainrod has done and still does. That's why I said obnoxious, not because of his point of view, which he is of course entitled to, and I often agree with (though not this week).
2 - And this is a good thread to mention this again, given what's happening at Reading, if my sources are right and 12 months from now we end up with FFP problems again, a shortfall we can't cover with player sales, potential transfer embargo, even potential points off, then I'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with Stainrod's Elbow and yourself chucking the same criticism their way.
The big sell from Ferdinand and Hoos is basically 'yeh it's sht, yeh it's tough, yeh we're struggling to compete, but the club is being run sensibly now, those days of excess and mismanagement are long behind us, we'll take tough and unpopular decisions to protect the club'. If it's sht, and tough, and we can't compete, and we're taking tough and unpopular decisions and we breach FFP anyway... then what's the point of them? Then there are all sorts of legitimate questions about why they allowed themselves, last summer, to do Gray, Austin, Johansen, Field, De Wijs, Dunne, Dozzell, Archer, McCallum at considerable expense, which essentially drove them into a cul-de-sac from which they can only escape by selling a player.
If that were to come to pass then they'd deserve a rinsing but if Stainrod has spent the previous two years bringing Lee Hoos up in threads about why our set piece defending is so bad, then people are going to have stopped listening.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Have your sources suggested a preferred departure candidate?
I’d rather take one big wallop from say Willock than lose 5 or 6 lesser valued players.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2022 18:40]
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| Reading in Trouble? on 18:40 - Dec 2 with 3734 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Reading in Trouble? on 18:30 - Dec 2 by dmm |
How closely do we think clubs can analyse the financial position of other clubs from which they want to recruit?
In other words, if we're up to our necks in shit and have to sell a player to stay afloat, does that mean a buying club would be able to accurately assess the situation and bid accordingly?
I assume the answer would be an absolute yes. |
Everyone has to publish to companies house don’t they. I assume a savvy club would check there first. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 18:43 - Dec 2 with 3723 views | 1JD |
| Reading in Trouble? on 12:59 - Dec 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I agree.
Fans can do their part and lower expectations too.
We have 50,000 posts on how shit Les and Lee and are doing on this website, just because they are trying to ween the club off big wages and big transfers, and as obnoxious as he is it's not all from Wegerles Stairs and Stained's Elbow. Plenty of others have too.
We should all swallow our medicine and accept we probably won't ever compete with Man City and shouldn't put our club on the line trying.
Solidarity with Reading fans. |
The Les and Lee question will rumble on amongst the fan base - and will continue to do so, because largely, we have stood still in terms of league status and league position. We have neither gone up, nor down, under the stabilising leadership of Hoos and Ferdinand. Which is rapidly approaching 10 years.
10 years is not an insignificant amount of time to be judged on overall performance. As far as I can see, whilst they have done a good job stabilising the club over this time, they have not done a good job of implementing the repeated ability to buy and sell players, or develop and sell players, for revenue and profit. Which has long been a clear part of their remit and is mission-critical to the clubs strategy.
Other clubs, other CEOs, and other DoFs are out-performing us in this arena. And thus, it is reasonable to ask questions; could a new CEO or DOF do better? Have the existing leadership taken us as far as they can?
For a rather painful and illuminating comparison with other similar sized clubs, who have similar resources, we have the example of Brentford. For context, Brentford have posted over 90m+ in player sales (and profit) during the same 10 year timeframe. Whilst we have totalled around 25m in player sales, but it is offset by multi-million player purchases over that timeframe that didn’t work out. Profit of ins and outs is not good reading.
As a result, the jury is out. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 19:02 - Dec 2 with 3670 views | kensalriser |
Perfectly valid to point out the success stories of clubs like Brentford who have outperformed us over the last ten years, but equally there are many examples, probably more (Ipswich, Sheff Weds, Bolton, Charlton, Derby, Portsmouth) of clubs who've underperformed. The truth is we're just in the middle of a big pack all struggling to do the same thing with similar resources |  |
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| Reading in Trouble? on 19:48 - Dec 2 with 3586 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Reading in Trouble? on 19:02 - Dec 2 by kensalriser |
Perfectly valid to point out the success stories of clubs like Brentford who have outperformed us over the last ten years, but equally there are many examples, probably more (Ipswich, Sheff Weds, Bolton, Charlton, Derby, Portsmouth) of clubs who've underperformed. The truth is we're just in the middle of a big pack all struggling to do the same thing with similar resources |
Was supposed to be a upvote sorry! [Post edited 2 Dec 2022 19:50]
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| Reading in Trouble? on 20:29 - Dec 2 with 3452 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Reading in Trouble? on 18:43 - Dec 2 by 1JD |
The Les and Lee question will rumble on amongst the fan base - and will continue to do so, because largely, we have stood still in terms of league status and league position. We have neither gone up, nor down, under the stabilising leadership of Hoos and Ferdinand. Which is rapidly approaching 10 years.
10 years is not an insignificant amount of time to be judged on overall performance. As far as I can see, whilst they have done a good job stabilising the club over this time, they have not done a good job of implementing the repeated ability to buy and sell players, or develop and sell players, for revenue and profit. Which has long been a clear part of their remit and is mission-critical to the clubs strategy.
Other clubs, other CEOs, and other DoFs are out-performing us in this arena. And thus, it is reasonable to ask questions; could a new CEO or DOF do better? Have the existing leadership taken us as far as they can?
For a rather painful and illuminating comparison with other similar sized clubs, who have similar resources, we have the example of Brentford. For context, Brentford have posted over 90m+ in player sales (and profit) during the same 10 year timeframe. Whilst we have totalled around 25m in player sales, but it is offset by multi-million player purchases over that timeframe that didn’t work out. Profit of ins and outs is not good reading.
As a result, the jury is out. |
I think everyone needs to stop comparing us to Brentford. They have been well run for 15 years plus, we have not, but we are/will be OK.
10 years to clear up the utter balls up is not bad going. The owners have just invested £40m in a state of the art academy/training facility, neither Brentford or Fulham can get near that.
The academy will produce players with the new facility, but not for a few years.
Dont forget, Brentford were able to bring players in from Europe, a route that is now cut off.
As an aside, I have a friend who is very involved with Brentford. Last season under Warburton, their analytics team and DOF did an analysis of QPR. They told him we would go up. Until the March Melt Down we were on track to do it.
We are not that far away. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 20:41 - Dec 2 with 3418 views | 1JD |
| Reading in Trouble? on 20:29 - Dec 2 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
I think everyone needs to stop comparing us to Brentford. They have been well run for 15 years plus, we have not, but we are/will be OK.
10 years to clear up the utter balls up is not bad going. The owners have just invested £40m in a state of the art academy/training facility, neither Brentford or Fulham can get near that.
The academy will produce players with the new facility, but not for a few years.
Dont forget, Brentford were able to bring players in from Europe, a route that is now cut off.
As an aside, I have a friend who is very involved with Brentford. Last season under Warburton, their analytics team and DOF did an analysis of QPR. They told him we would go up. Until the March Melt Down we were on track to do it.
We are not that far away. |
Brentford have set the benchmark for what is possible for clubs of our size. Smart recruitment, smarter contracts, and smart selling. They have set the standard, whether you like it or not. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 21:09 - Dec 2 with 3327 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Reading in Trouble? on 12:59 - Dec 2 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I agree.
Fans can do their part and lower expectations too.
We have 50,000 posts on how shit Les and Lee and are doing on this website, just because they are trying to ween the club off big wages and big transfers, and as obnoxious as he is it's not all from Wegerles Stairs and Stained's Elbow. Plenty of others have too.
We should all swallow our medicine and accept we probably won't ever compete with Man City and shouldn't put our club on the line trying.
Solidarity with Reading fans. |
Thanks for the embedded dig - and then the equivocal acknowedegment I might - just might - have a point after all. To me, I smell of roses, so go and hold your nose someplace else.
It's a confusing time for a lot of us to be QPR supporters, clearly. |  |
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| Reading in Trouble? on 21:54 - Dec 2 with 3237 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Reading in Trouble? on 18:43 - Dec 2 by 1JD |
The Les and Lee question will rumble on amongst the fan base - and will continue to do so, because largely, we have stood still in terms of league status and league position. We have neither gone up, nor down, under the stabilising leadership of Hoos and Ferdinand. Which is rapidly approaching 10 years.
10 years is not an insignificant amount of time to be judged on overall performance. As far as I can see, whilst they have done a good job stabilising the club over this time, they have not done a good job of implementing the repeated ability to buy and sell players, or develop and sell players, for revenue and profit. Which has long been a clear part of their remit and is mission-critical to the clubs strategy.
Other clubs, other CEOs, and other DoFs are out-performing us in this arena. And thus, it is reasonable to ask questions; could a new CEO or DOF do better? Have the existing leadership taken us as far as they can?
For a rather painful and illuminating comparison with other similar sized clubs, who have similar resources, we have the example of Brentford. For context, Brentford have posted over 90m+ in player sales (and profit) during the same 10 year timeframe. Whilst we have totalled around 25m in player sales, but it is offset by multi-million player purchases over that timeframe that didn’t work out. Profit of ins and outs is not good reading.
As a result, the jury is out. |
A big difference is that Brentford got big money for players because they were repeatedly challenging at the top end of the table. That helped to bump up the transfer fees for players, particularly ones that probably weren't that great with hindsight, but looked better in a consistently impressive team. | | | |
| Reading in Trouble? on 22:06 - Dec 2 with 3221 views | LazyFan |
| Reading in Trouble? on 21:54 - Dec 2 by Wegerles_Stairs |
A big difference is that Brentford got big money for players because they were repeatedly challenging at the top end of the table. That helped to bump up the transfer fees for players, particularly ones that probably weren't that great with hindsight, but looked better in a consistently impressive team. |
Brentford player sales.
As others have said Brentford used the Europe route, true they were clever Moneyball-wise, but that is now cut off. In addition, when they sold players it was the height of the transfer market, clever them. At that time we were still recovering from the disaster of the over-spend years. Yep years after those years we were still recovering back then.
Now the market is not the same, no one wants to sell their strikers for any money as they fear they will be selling too low and no one wants to buy anyone for big money, preferring to wait until their contract runs out ala BoS and soon Willock if we don't get him to sign a new contract in the next 4 weeks.
We may see Willock sold for a mere £5m soon as he's in the last year of his contract window-wise after Jan. The Brentford model was great for them but it's not the same market now for everyone.
However we have the Academy coming soon, state of the art and if the owners gift us with a new stadium, then we shall be in a great place to build upon that in the new world where if you cannot develop your own players, you must woo and steal them from others. Just like Southampton and Norwich with their London academies.
We have already started this with a few young uns bought off other clubs, Kellman, and Walsh, they may not work out but at least the club is trying. And trying is the only way we can move forward. |  |
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