| Autumn statement on Thursday 18:33 - Nov 15 with 8123 views | britferry |
Are you looking forward to it?
Predicted:
an extra £100 on your annual council tax bill
hundreds of pounds more income tax
energy bills up by £1,000 a year
pensions triple lock secured
benefits will go up by 10%
minimum wage will hit £10.40 an hour
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 16:58 - Nov 16 with 1569 views | Sandanista |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 15:50 - Nov 16 by Whiterockin |
I suggest that you go up the Welsh valleys and test your claim with the locals. Good luck. |
That's why means testing is needed. If you were on an old final salary scheme, taking early retirement in a semi worth 400K that you paid 40K for then you are being subsided heavily. In a 100K Valleys Terrace on State Pansion then you need the safeguard. No one is taking money away-the triple lock gives pensioners a much bigger rise than public sector workers and almost all non state pensions are linked to some form of CPI.
No wonder they vote Tory. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 17:01 - Nov 16 with 1565 views | Sandanista |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 16:49 - Nov 16 by Scotia |
No he didn't. Its nonsense.
You do have to live somewhere but someone with a more expensive property has far more choice.
Once my daughter moves out we will downsize and hopefully be able to put her through university on the difference in property value. |
They never leave...... | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 17:18 - Nov 16 with 1557 views | Whiterockin |
It's easy to see the age split on this thread. |  | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 17:29 - Nov 16 with 1537 views | Sandanista |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 17:18 - Nov 16 by Whiterockin |
It's easy to see the age split on this thread. |
You may be surprised. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 17:32 - Nov 16 with 1532 views | Whiterockin |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 17:29 - Nov 16 by Sandanista |
You may be surprised. |
Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 18:21 - Nov 16 with 1488 views | trampie |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 16:58 - Nov 16 by Sandanista |
That's why means testing is needed. If you were on an old final salary scheme, taking early retirement in a semi worth 400K that you paid 40K for then you are being subsided heavily. In a 100K Valleys Terrace on State Pansion then you need the safeguard. No one is taking money away-the triple lock gives pensioners a much bigger rise than public sector workers and almost all non state pensions are linked to some form of CPI.
No wonder they vote Tory. |
The problem is Government jobs final salary schemes being way to generous in some cases and not pensioner's wealth or lack of wealth as not all pensioner's are in receipt of Government final salary schemes. |  |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 19:05 - Nov 16 with 1471 views | Sandanista |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 18:21 - Nov 16 by trampie |
The problem is Government jobs final salary schemes being way to generous in some cases and not pensioner's wealth or lack of wealth as not all pensioner's are in receipt of Government final salary schemes. |
Pretty much so, but not just public sector.
That’s much of the point. Those in their
20s-40s are subsiding those already retired in these schemes. State pension is beyond a struggle to survive on. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 19:36 - Nov 16 with 1457 views | trampie |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 19:05 - Nov 16 by Sandanista |
Pretty much so, but not just public sector.
That’s much of the point. Those in their
20s-40s are subsiding those already retired in these schemes. State pension is beyond a struggle to survive on. |
That is the way Government final salary pension schemes work and also the state pension I believe, you pay into the pot to pay for those that are already retired, so today's pensioner's have already paid in for the previous generation to them and today's 20s-40s that you mention if the same system survives will be paid by the next generation of 20s-40s to them.
The final salary schemes in the private sector are all coming to an end because they are unsustainable, I'm a taxpayer and therefore pay towards nurses, teachers, police generous final salary pensions (at least were generous), if those schemes are unsustainable in the private sector then surely they are in the public sector as well.
The old age state pension is a different kettle of fish with the same/similar rules for everybody, difficult to change that and be fair unless it's changed for people not born yet or people not of working age yet. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 22:27 - Nov 16 with 1404 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 19:36 - Nov 16 by trampie |
That is the way Government final salary pension schemes work and also the state pension I believe, you pay into the pot to pay for those that are already retired, so today's pensioner's have already paid in for the previous generation to them and today's 20s-40s that you mention if the same system survives will be paid by the next generation of 20s-40s to them.
The final salary schemes in the private sector are all coming to an end because they are unsustainable, I'm a taxpayer and therefore pay towards nurses, teachers, police generous final salary pensions (at least were generous), if those schemes are unsustainable in the private sector then surely they are in the public sector as well.
The old age state pension is a different kettle of fish with the same/similar rules for everybody, difficult to change that and be fair unless it's changed for people not born yet or people not of working age yet. |
Private sector final salary schemes were wrecked by Gordon Brown when he took away most of the tax advantages for businesses, a bad decision in face of an ageing population, which has put more pressure on the tax payer/government. The state pension is pay as you go, today's NI pays today's pension. Public sector pensions are often a mix of investment fund returns and current contributions. They are again an increasing liability for the taxpayer as we have an aging population and unlike private sector pensions the indexation is not limited to 5 percent, so 11 percent inflation increases the pensions bill by 11 percent. Inflation is a big burden on the taxpayer in this respect and you can see the need to reduce it quickly. |  |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 00:05 - Nov 17 with 1387 views | majorraglan |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 22:27 - Nov 16 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Private sector final salary schemes were wrecked by Gordon Brown when he took away most of the tax advantages for businesses, a bad decision in face of an ageing population, which has put more pressure on the tax payer/government. The state pension is pay as you go, today's NI pays today's pension. Public sector pensions are often a mix of investment fund returns and current contributions. They are again an increasing liability for the taxpayer as we have an aging population and unlike private sector pensions the indexation is not limited to 5 percent, so 11 percent inflation increases the pensions bill by 11 percent. Inflation is a big burden on the taxpayer in this respect and you can see the need to reduce it quickly. |
Private sector pensions were adversely affected by Gordon Brown, his actions have had long term consequences, that said over the last 12 years the Conservative governments have had ample opportunity to reverse the changes and they’ve done nothing about it. Over and above the tax credit business, the legislation around pensions governance has been pretty poor and we’ve seen unscrupulous companies and individuals symphony cash out of pension schemes, a number of governments are culpable here.
I think we’re going to get smashed tomorrow. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 00:24 - Nov 17 with 1380 views | majorraglan |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 15:16 - Nov 16 by JACKMANANDBOY |
The average house price in SE England is about £550K. A terraced house in London averages £800K. |
Those kind of figures are madness, youngsters have no chance for getting on the property ladder with those kind of valuations. I know someone who has an interest only fixed rate mortgage which is coming to an end in the near future. The loan is interest only for about £135k and repayments are about £150 per month. The individual has spoken to a mortgage advisor who’s told him the cheapest deal he can source is currently over £525 per month, if he wants to lock in and fix repayments its between £640 and £690 per month. That’s a huge change and I think people are going to get burned.
We’re facing huge increases and cuts. Truss alone has cost us £30bn and in addition to higher food bills, energy bills we have to pay higher taxes and suffer huge cuts to public services because of her incompetence. On top of that we have to pay for a Covid, I don’t mind paying my share for that but I’m not happy about the fact we’re covering huge losses in fraud and the potentially dodgy covid contracts. Then there’s Brexit, we’ve got the only economy in the G7 which is smaller than it was preCovid.
Some of those in power are taking us for a ride and it’s all about their career and inagecas opposed to the greater public good. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 07:49 - Nov 17 with 1339 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 19:36 - Nov 16 by trampie |
That is the way Government final salary pension schemes work and also the state pension I believe, you pay into the pot to pay for those that are already retired, so today's pensioner's have already paid in for the previous generation to them and today's 20s-40s that you mention if the same system survives will be paid by the next generation of 20s-40s to them.
The final salary schemes in the private sector are all coming to an end because they are unsustainable, I'm a taxpayer and therefore pay towards nurses, teachers, police generous final salary pensions (at least were generous), if those schemes are unsustainable in the private sector then surely they are in the public sector as well.
The old age state pension is a different kettle of fish with the same/similar rules for everybody, difficult to change that and be fair unless it's changed for people not born yet or people not of working age yet. |
Unfortunately all the private sector final salary pensions schemes became unaffordable after the Labour windfall tax raids on pension funds under Blair and Brown which back in the late 1990s amounted 70 £5 billion a year. Labour's actions resulted in millions of workers having smaller works pensions as well as several pension funds going bust. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 09:35 - Nov 17 with 1317 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 00:05 - Nov 17 by majorraglan |
Private sector pensions were adversely affected by Gordon Brown, his actions have had long term consequences, that said over the last 12 years the Conservative governments have had ample opportunity to reverse the changes and they’ve done nothing about it. Over and above the tax credit business, the legislation around pensions governance has been pretty poor and we’ve seen unscrupulous companies and individuals symphony cash out of pension schemes, a number of governments are culpable here.
I think we’re going to get smashed tomorrow. |
Rebuilding those funds would have taken 100s of billions after years of winding them down, politically unacceptable to throw that kind of money at private business. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 10:51 - Nov 17 with 1298 views | britferry |
car & fuel tax going up they reckon | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 13:23 - Nov 17 with 1244 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 09:35 - Nov 17 by JACKMANANDBOY |
Rebuilding those funds would have taken 100s of billions after years of winding them down, politically unacceptable to throw that kind of money at private business. |
That why millions of working people in private company schemes will be worse of receiving smaller pensions while millions of public employees will still get receive higher finally salary pension often needing to only work 30 years to get their pension. They can retire early draw their pension early . Police can retire at 50 on a full pension and civil servants can retire at 60. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 15:05 - Nov 17 with 1206 views | Sandanista |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 13:23 - Nov 17 by felixstowe_jack |
That why millions of working people in private company schemes will be worse of receiving smaller pensions while millions of public employees will still get receive higher finally salary pension often needing to only work 30 years to get their pension. They can retire early draw their pension early . Police can retire at 50 on a full pension and civil servants can retire at 60. |
Not any more Felix-Police retirement for full pension is now 60. Early retirement from 55, but loses about 5% benefit value each year -so 75% pension at 55.
A lot of schemes are similar-Universities (USS) used to be 50 minimum age, now 55 (moving to 57) but that would lose 50% per annum benefit value. Both are contributory pensions (USS-the university scheme is about 10% of salary contribution plus a big employers contribution) | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 15:21 - Nov 17 with 1195 views | KeithHaynes |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 13:23 - Nov 17 by felixstowe_jack |
That why millions of working people in private company schemes will be worse of receiving smaller pensions while millions of public employees will still get receive higher finally salary pension often needing to only work 30 years to get their pension. They can retire early draw their pension early . Police can retire at 50 on a full pension and civil servants can retire at 60. |
The police have never been able to retire at 50 on a full pension, ever. *Unless they reach thirty years service. Which is a thing of the dim and distant past.
At 55 is the lowest now on a part pension.
And 60 on a full pension which is much reduced now, but don’t forget they pay in up to 14.5% of their earnings in to the pension, and overtime which is rare these days due to advanced notice of moving rest days is now the rule. 28 days notice means there is little or no chance of getting overtime as a uniformed officer. And then you have your rest days cancelled and re-rostered. OT is not pensionable.
Staring pay now less than it was in 1989.
Which makes me smile as the vast majority are not on OT a at any event especially football as it can be pre planned. There’s a lot of untruths about regards the public service, from the fire service right through to the police. I’m not saying that’s you.
Think about this though, a career officer at PC rank retiring at 60 is now is expected to deal with a variety of lunatics on a Saturday night in any town or city centre. Anyone fancy rolling about on the ground with a meth induced cider driven loon at that age ? And for those who say that’s what they signed up for they didn’t. If you had less than fifteen years service in 2006 you automatically went from 55 to 60 regards retirement age, opting out was virtually impossible.
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 18:04 - Nov 17 with 1123 views | Gwyn737 |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 16:49 - Nov 16 by Scotia |
No he didn't. Its nonsense.
You do have to live somewhere but someone with a more expensive property has far more choice.
Once my daughter moves out we will downsize and hopefully be able to put her through university on the difference in property value. |
You’ve got to really feel for young people trying to get on the housing ladder haven’t you?
Average houses at 10-15 times wages and sometimes more.
It must be so easy to become disillusioned. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 20:15 - Nov 17 with 1080 views | Dr_Winston |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 13:23 - Nov 17 by felixstowe_jack |
That why millions of working people in private company schemes will be worse of receiving smaller pensions while millions of public employees will still get receive higher finally salary pension often needing to only work 30 years to get their pension. They can retire early draw their pension early . Police can retire at 50 on a full pension and civil servants can retire at 60. |
Very few civil servants can afford to retire at 60. Most only partially retire, working 2-3 days a week to top up the occupational pension until they reach SP age.
The only civil servants I know who retired at 60 either had a spouse with a large private pension or were lucky enough to inherit money to top the pension up with. [Post edited 17 Nov 2022 20:17]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 20:49 - Nov 17 with 1069 views | max936 |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 19:05 - Nov 16 by Sandanista |
Pretty much so, but not just public sector.
That’s much of the point. Those in their
20s-40s are subsiding those already retired in these schemes. State pension is beyond a struggle to survive on. |
Nobody is subsidizing people who have retired they've paid enough into the system throughout their working lives, time I retire in 6 yrs time, I'd have paid into the system for 50yrs, apparently my stamps are fully paid up now, yet I'm still paying into the system, for governments like the one we have now to waste Billions of peoples hard earned payments, scandalous.
Its a good job we're not allowed to swear on here  |  |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 20:51 - Nov 17 with 1065 views | max936 |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 15:21 - Nov 17 by KeithHaynes |
The police have never been able to retire at 50 on a full pension, ever. *Unless they reach thirty years service. Which is a thing of the dim and distant past.
At 55 is the lowest now on a part pension.
And 60 on a full pension which is much reduced now, but don’t forget they pay in up to 14.5% of their earnings in to the pension, and overtime which is rare these days due to advanced notice of moving rest days is now the rule. 28 days notice means there is little or no chance of getting overtime as a uniformed officer. And then you have your rest days cancelled and re-rostered. OT is not pensionable.
Staring pay now less than it was in 1989.
Which makes me smile as the vast majority are not on OT a at any event especially football as it can be pre planned. There’s a lot of untruths about regards the public service, from the fire service right through to the police. I’m not saying that’s you.
Think about this though, a career officer at PC rank retiring at 60 is now is expected to deal with a variety of lunatics on a Saturday night in any town or city centre. Anyone fancy rolling about on the ground with a meth induced cider driven loon at that age ? And for those who say that’s what they signed up for they didn’t. If you had less than fifteen years service in 2006 you automatically went from 55 to 60 regards retirement age, opting out was virtually impossible.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Talking sense won't wash on threads like these Keith.
Great Post though. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 21:09 - Nov 17 with 1062 views | Catullus |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 08:42 - Nov 16 by ItchySphincter |
Even the staunchest Brexiteers are saying it’s been an unmitigated disaster, and I’m not saying that covid and Ukraine hasn’t compounded the issue, but you show me one first world country that’s been hit as hard as us since your lot handed the keys to the kingdom to the ERG.
Man up, and admit that what you did ‘for your son’ has done nothing but hand him a worse future than your past. Accept it and work to fix it. |
Brexit was always a long term deal, not an vernght fix. Think of it like the house you have to gut and refurbish before you can comfortably live in it.
A good chunk of the damage done since 2016 has been because of the entirely rubbish politicians in charge.
Take Bojo and the PPE scandal, we didnt have to waste so many billions but it all went to friends of the boss so nothing was done, corrupt, scandalous, someone should be in prison but they walked away. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 21:17 - Nov 17 with 1052 views | Sandanista |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 20:49 - Nov 17 by max936 |
Nobody is subsidizing people who have retired they've paid enough into the system throughout their working lives, time I retire in 6 yrs time, I'd have paid into the system for 50yrs, apparently my stamps are fully paid up now, yet I'm still paying into the system, for governments like the one we have now to waste Billions of peoples hard earned payments, scandalous.
Its a good job we're not allowed to swear on here |
Anyone paying increasing tax is subsiding both pensioners and benefit claimants.
No one else is getting a 10% pay rise. That’s not to suggest someone on state pension alone should be penalised, just that rises should be limited above a high income threshold. The current situation for younger workers is horrendous. And although anyone may have ‘paid in for years’ that’s not covering the burden. Unless we start applying proper taxation to companies and high earners who seem to avoid the burden the rest of us have, then this inequality will remain. And I too hope to retire before too long. | | | |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 21:47 - Nov 17 with 1028 views | KeithHaynes |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 20:51 - Nov 17 by max936 |
Talking sense won't wash on threads like these Keith.
Great Post though. |
I’ve always said mate, you can’t hate a whole group of people because when you do it says more about that person than anything else.
And of course their real place in life.
1939 -45. | |
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| Autumn statement on Thursday on 22:07 - Nov 17 with 1012 views | max936 |
| Autumn statement on Thursday on 21:17 - Nov 17 by Sandanista |
Anyone paying increasing tax is subsiding both pensioners and benefit claimants.
No one else is getting a 10% pay rise. That’s not to suggest someone on state pension alone should be penalised, just that rises should be limited above a high income threshold. The current situation for younger workers is horrendous. And although anyone may have ‘paid in for years’ that’s not covering the burden. Unless we start applying proper taxation to companies and high earners who seem to avoid the burden the rest of us have, then this inequality will remain. And I too hope to retire before too long. |
There's a but, us older tax payers have been doing the same as these youngsters are doing now, we've subsidised the older generation as they were before us, my Son has a decent job and in his late 20's so he's in that situation as well, he understands it a better than me, its a swings and roundabouts situation though, people who have worked all their lives get to live off peanuts because of the fact they are living longer.
Pensions are a massive ripoff anyway, private pensions especially.
For governments to control the private pension scheme's in some form or other is scandalous. | |
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