| Ferdinand Out 10:40 - Dec 27 with 9798 views | 1JD |
Recruitment is the chief responsibility of the DOF role, and at QPR it is simply not good enough.
8m spent back in Les Ferdinands first summer, 8m spent again this summer, when we finally had money again- both a complete shit show.
Contracts are also the key responsibility of the DOF role, and again, it is not good enough- Manning and BOS both walking out the door for absolute peanuts, costing the club millions of pounds in lost revenue.
Everyone can moan about the manager but we need a new and experienced DOF, fast. |  | | |  |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:44 - Dec 27 with 5810 views | daveB |
we didn't spend 8 million this summer |  | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:45 - Dec 27 with 5799 views | Rangersw12 |
Maybe we should get Steve Gallen back as DOF if anything it might stop his brother being a complete cock on twitter | | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:46 - Dec 27 with 5796 views | essextaxiboy |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:44 - Dec 27 by daveB |
we didn't spend 8 million this summer |
If we have it was spent getting through Covid .. |  | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:55 - Dec 27 with 5710 views | Northolt_Rs |
Teflon is going nowhere... he will sit and milk that big juicy salary forever. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Ferdinand Out on 10:58 - Dec 27 with 5695 views | 1JD |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:44 - Dec 27 by daveB |
we didn't spend 8 million this summer |
We did. Not all of it went out directly due to add on etc, but we committed 8m or near. But it’s a moot point, the recruitment is not good enough.
2m Bonne (as quoted by himself)
2m Dykes
2m Dickie
750k Willock
500k Amos
500k Kelman
That’s 7-8m. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 11:01]
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:19 - Dec 27 with 5592 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I have an open mind about replacing Ferdinand, mainly because we don't know what precisely he is responsible for.
Academy - definitely Ferdinand's remit, and doing the best it has in decades with regulars coming through and being sold for money.
Wages - being halved every single year, no admin and no relegation. This is a huge achievement and, whatever happens, I will always be thankful to him and to Hoos for rescuing our club from the $shitshow they inherited.
Manning and BOS - you can't force players to sign, so I have sympathy
Recruitment - as Clive always says this is either a group responsibility or else they are vague about it in public, but Ferdinand has at least some responsibility. Either way 13th last year while halving the wages and spending only £50k was an extraordinary achievement which has been forgotten somewhat as this season's team struggles.
Appointment of Managers - this is Ferdinand's first appointment and I was delighted with it last year, hasn't worked this year and it's time for a change.
Overall, Ferdinand seems to be doing a fine job in many ways and this seems to be acknowledged by the industry as he is linked with FA jobs. However, if he gets to appoint the next manager and it doesn't work then I think everyone will be open-minded about a change. |  |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:20 - Dec 27 with 5588 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:58 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
We did. Not all of it went out directly due to add on etc, but we committed 8m or near. But it’s a moot point, the recruitment is not good enough.
2m Bonne (as quoted by himself)
2m Dykes
2m Dickie
750k Willock
500k Amos
500k Kelman
That’s 7-8m. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 11:01]
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He also brought in £16-20m.
So we have a huge transfer profit. | |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:26 - Dec 27 with 5547 views | 1JD |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:20 - Dec 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
He also brought in £16-20m.
So we have a huge transfer profit. |
The situation at QPR is unique because the DOF role at QPR is effectively shared between 2 roles - the Technical Director - Chris Ramsey, and the DOF - Les Ferdinand.
In most other clubs the Technical Director IS the DOF.
So, the role is effectively split into 2 at QPR.
Ramsey is responsible for the Academy. Ferdinand is responsible for first team recruitment and contracts.
My view is that it is Chris Ramsey who is responsible for the like of Eze, Chair etc together with the manager and his coaching, Ie Mark Warburton.
With regards your other point we are not at a 12m profit - the DOF spent 8-10m in his first summer, which is often forgotten as it was so long ago (including 3m on Washington), and almost none of it received an ROI, so it was dead money. | | | |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:29 - Dec 27 with 5518 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:26 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
The situation at QPR is unique because the DOF role at QPR is effectively shared between 2 roles - the Technical Director - Chris Ramsey, and the DOF - Les Ferdinand.
In most other clubs the Technical Director IS the DOF.
So, the role is effectively split into 2 at QPR.
Ramsey is responsible for the Academy. Ferdinand is responsible for first team recruitment and contracts.
My view is that it is Chris Ramsey who is responsible for the like of Eze, Chair etc together with the manager and his coaching, Ie Mark Warburton.
With regards your other point we are not at a 12m profit - the DOF spent 8-10m in his first summer, which is often forgotten as it was so long ago (including 3m on Washington), and almost none of it received an ROI, so it was dead money. |
Ramsey has said in podcasts that he answers to Ferdinand, so Ferdinand is over the Academy.
Point taken in your last paragraph - I thought we were talking solely about this season. | |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:30 - Dec 27 with 5508 views | paulparker |
Love Les but DOF not for me sorry
It’s been 6 years of this regime and we are going backwards , there have been some good things but by and large the recruitment has been woeful
Gladwin
Ariel
Sylla
Polter
Cherry
Bidwell
Konchesky
Kane
Barbet
Amos
Washington
El kayete ( sp)
To go on top of the players we signed with the Eze money , the contract situation of BOS,manning , Ned , giving Kaykay , Nico four year deals
The only time we were on the right track was when we got in freeman, BOS , scowen all scouted by penrice and given a chance by Olly
Les takes a big wage from us a week and we need to cut our losses now
The whole point of selling big is to invest the money wisely make yourself better , we haven’t done that and are heading into oblivion |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:34 - Dec 27 with 5475 views | 1JD |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:19 - Dec 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
I have an open mind about replacing Ferdinand, mainly because we don't know what precisely he is responsible for.
Academy - definitely Ferdinand's remit, and doing the best it has in decades with regulars coming through and being sold for money.
Wages - being halved every single year, no admin and no relegation. This is a huge achievement and, whatever happens, I will always be thankful to him and to Hoos for rescuing our club from the $shitshow they inherited.
Manning and BOS - you can't force players to sign, so I have sympathy
Recruitment - as Clive always says this is either a group responsibility or else they are vague about it in public, but Ferdinand has at least some responsibility. Either way 13th last year while halving the wages and spending only £50k was an extraordinary achievement which has been forgotten somewhat as this season's team struggles.
Appointment of Managers - this is Ferdinand's first appointment and I was delighted with it last year, hasn't worked this year and it's time for a change.
Overall, Ferdinand seems to be doing a fine job in many ways and this seems to be acknowledged by the industry as he is linked with FA jobs. However, if he gets to appoint the next manager and it doesn't work then I think everyone will be open-minded about a change. |
https://anchor.fm/footballcfb/episodes/Les-Ferdinand--Newcastle--Spurs--Goals-an
Listen to that, it hardly inspires confidence. The fist 2 minutes of this he introduces his responsibilities. Recruitment and contracts. Which is the same for most DOFs.
Wages and finances are ultimately the CEO and CFO.
Manning and BOS - contract discussions should of taken place way before they “made it” and proved themselves. Instead, the DOF did it in reverse, a schoolboy error, and we are where we are. Meaning the players have the power, and not the club.
Academy is Ramsey.
Managers are the owners choice ultimately. | | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:35 - Dec 27 with 5462 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:26 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
The situation at QPR is unique because the DOF role at QPR is effectively shared between 2 roles - the Technical Director - Chris Ramsey, and the DOF - Les Ferdinand.
In most other clubs the Technical Director IS the DOF.
So, the role is effectively split into 2 at QPR.
Ramsey is responsible for the Academy. Ferdinand is responsible for first team recruitment and contracts.
My view is that it is Chris Ramsey who is responsible for the like of Eze, Chair etc together with the manager and his coaching, Ie Mark Warburton.
With regards your other point we are not at a 12m profit - the DOF spent 8-10m in his first summer, which is often forgotten as it was so long ago (including 3m on Washington), and almost none of it received an ROI, so it was dead money. |
Yep, we had several years of parachute payments yet were never in the running for the play-offs. My main issue is that while it's great to bring through young talent that must be complemented by smart recruitment, which is our greatest failing under Ferdinand. One only needs to look at the number of duds that have passed through the club in the last few years and just how many of them we've lost money on. To still not have recruited a decent box-to-box midfielder or full back is pretty damning.
I honestly don't see why we need a Director of Football. We need a hands-on chairman (working with the CEO if necessary) and a decent manager. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 11:35]
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:35 - Dec 27 with 5445 views | BrianMcCarthy |
"The only time we were on the right track was when we got in freeman, BOS , scowen all scouted by penrice and given a chance by Olly2
I think you make some fair points, PP.
In answer to the above, though, I would say that the recruitment was appalling before Ferdinand arrived and nearly bust us. Ferdinand had to build in-house scouting up from nothing.
Also Penrice worked for Ferdinand and Ferdinand signed off on Freeman, Scowen etc.
If Ferdinand gets the blame (rightly) for the mistakes we have to be honest and give him credit for what he has done well too. We have to be fair. | |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:38 - Dec 27 with 5411 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:35 - Dec 27 by Wegerles_Stairs |
Yep, we had several years of parachute payments yet were never in the running for the play-offs. My main issue is that while it's great to bring through young talent that must be complemented by smart recruitment, which is our greatest failing under Ferdinand. One only needs to look at the number of duds that have passed through the club in the last few years and just how many of them we've lost money on. To still not have recruited a decent box-to-box midfielder or full back is pretty damning.
I honestly don't see why we need a Director of Football. We need a hands-on chairman (working with the CEO if necessary) and a decent manager. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 11:35]
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"I honestly don't see why we need a Director of Football. We need a hands-on chairman (working with the CEO if necessary) and a decent manager."
I think either model could work, Wegerle. But we don't have a hands-on chairman with football knowledge, so we need a DOF - whether it be Ferdinand or someone else - or the managers and their chosen agents start running the show again. And we know where that got us!
Anyway, good chat. I'm off to West Cork to visit the parents.
Have a good day everyone. | |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:41 - Dec 27 with 5385 views | kensalriser |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:58 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
We did. Not all of it went out directly due to add on etc, but we committed 8m or near. But it’s a moot point, the recruitment is not good enough.
2m Bonne (as quoted by himself)
2m Dykes
2m Dickie
750k Willock
500k Amos
500k Kelman
That’s 7-8m. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 11:01]
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Bonne wasn’t 2m, as I’ve already pointed out, the very same article you’re quoting stated the deal was ‘worth up to 2m’. So while we can’t know what the fee was, we know it was less than 2m and if it did ever rise to the full figure he would have been worth it. I’d also note that a player may not be a reliable source for a transfer fee as he’s not a party to that contract, it’s between the two clubs.
None of this is to say that Ferdinand/the club is doing a good or bad job, just that we should be accurate with the facts. |  |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:52 - Dec 27 with 5300 views | 1JD |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:41 - Dec 27 by kensalriser |
Bonne wasn’t 2m, as I’ve already pointed out, the very same article you’re quoting stated the deal was ‘worth up to 2m’. So while we can’t know what the fee was, we know it was less than 2m and if it did ever rise to the full figure he would have been worth it. I’d also note that a player may not be a reliable source for a transfer fee as he’s not a party to that contract, it’s between the two clubs.
None of this is to say that Ferdinand/the club is doing a good or bad job, just that we should be accurate with the facts. |
A player may not be a reliable source for the transfer fee?
Sorry, but that’s completely nonsensical. Of course they know transfer fee. They might not be concerned with the finer details of add on clauses and payment schedules but they sure as heck know the top line figure. Which was given as 2m by Bonne himself.
Even sky sports publicise total deal value as the transfer value. This is what each club has committed in revenue to the deal, whether it happens or not is another subject entirely. | | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:54 - Dec 27 with 5280 views | OldPedro |
All of these players have little of no experience of the Championship before this season, so it is difficult to judge them on 20 or so matches.
Not all transfers in football work - I think some of these will go on to have good careers at this level but need more time to develop. The issue we have as a team is that we are in poor form (results wise) and are in a relegation fight. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Ferdinand Out on 11:59 - Dec 27 with 5230 views | OldPedro |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:52 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
A player may not be a reliable source for the transfer fee?
Sorry, but that’s completely nonsensical. Of course they know transfer fee. They might not be concerned with the finer details of add on clauses and payment schedules but they sure as heck know the top line figure. Which was given as 2m by Bonne himself.
Even sky sports publicise total deal value as the transfer value. This is what each club has committed in revenue to the deal, whether it happens or not is another subject entirely. |
But if part of the fee includes add-on's, e.g. goals scored/appearances/promotion, if the players doesn't hit those targets, the add-on's don't get paid. Unless there is a clause in Bonne's tranfers around number of times offside, we aren't anywhere near paying £2mil for him yet. | |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Ferdinand Out on 12:27 - Dec 27 with 5108 views | Dixie_CT |
With Lee Hoos here, Les and the position of DoF are completely unnecessary, both from the perspectives of the expenditure and job spec.
The failure of securing contracts with BOS, Manning and Lumley lay squarely at Les’ door and scream that all is not well. Arrogance? Ego? Difference of opinion?
Losing Manning for peanuts and for him to be replaced by Niko on a 4 year contract is terrible business. Manning isn’t the best defensively but I think we could have scored more goals with Ryan in the team, both from assists and goals scored. Niko is a slight upgrade as a defender but is no threat going forward. As for Wallace.....
The longer the BOS saga continued the more unlikely he was to sign and less interested in putting a shift for the team. His best mate leaves and his agent starts getting twitchy. Obviously the offer and sell of stay and develop never won over BOS or his agent and to be a sub for a bottom six team must be even more demoralising and at odds with what happened with Manning. Don’t sign, don’t play. Explain that one??
Alright Lumley had some shockers is never going to be the player we wished him to be, awful libality when kicking and some shocking handling errors/flapped saves, but another who’s contract is up and we will get next to nothing for. He is a better understudy to Dieng than Kelly/Barnes and we should have found a way for him to stay here as backup, on a longer contract and with a chance to regain his confidence.
Les should go and Warbs with him. The owners surely have enough faith in Hoos to make ends meet and have more control than Phil Beard when it comes to football decisions. |  | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 12:28 - Dec 27 with 5103 views | distortR |
| Ferdinand Out on 11:34 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
https://anchor.fm/footballcfb/episodes/Les-Ferdinand--Newcastle--Spurs--Goals-an
Listen to that, it hardly inspires confidence. The fist 2 minutes of this he introduces his responsibilities. Recruitment and contracts. Which is the same for most DOFs.
Wages and finances are ultimately the CEO and CFO.
Manning and BOS - contract discussions should of taken place way before they “made it” and proved themselves. Instead, the DOF did it in reverse, a schoolboy error, and we are where we are. Meaning the players have the power, and not the club.
Academy is Ramsey.
Managers are the owners choice ultimately. |
ok, so BOS and Manning should have been given long term contracts when they weren't doing it for the first team, and elsewhere there is criticism for giving Niko and Kakay long term contracts.
I reckon it's fine lines, it's the self-confidence of the players, of the team at any given time - How good is BOS, anyway? I have no idea. At times last season he was unplayable, at times this season he has been unplayable - albeit with a different meaning of the word!
At the end of the day, I don't think anyone on here really knows who is responsible for what in terms of transfers and influence.
I hear Eustace criticised and lauded - personally I have no idea how much influence he has in team business, just as I didn't with the maligned Bircham.
fan representation on the board would be quite a thing. | | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 12:39 - Dec 27 with 5029 views | bakerloo8 |
| Ferdinand Out on 12:28 - Dec 27 by distortR |
ok, so BOS and Manning should have been given long term contracts when they weren't doing it for the first team, and elsewhere there is criticism for giving Niko and Kakay long term contracts.
I reckon it's fine lines, it's the self-confidence of the players, of the team at any given time - How good is BOS, anyway? I have no idea. At times last season he was unplayable, at times this season he has been unplayable - albeit with a different meaning of the word!
At the end of the day, I don't think anyone on here really knows who is responsible for what in terms of transfers and influence.
I hear Eustace criticised and lauded - personally I have no idea how much influence he has in team business, just as I didn't with the maligned Bircham.
fan representation on the board would be quite a thing. |
Fair points there regarding vague responsibilities from the management, but what do we know?
Hoos is in charge of getting our finances in order so must be in charge of overall expenditure, wages, budgets etc... Wages and budgets slashed under his tenure so must be doing a decent job.....
Ramsey is Academy director so is charged with progressing the Youth and giving a pathway through to the first team. Eze, BOS, Chair, Manning etc suggest he is doing a good job...
Les as DOF? Player recruitment? Manager recruitment? I'm not sure tbh. |  | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 12:49 - Dec 27 with 4974 views | distortR |
| Ferdinand Out on 12:39 - Dec 27 by bakerloo8 |
Fair points there regarding vague responsibilities from the management, but what do we know?
Hoos is in charge of getting our finances in order so must be in charge of overall expenditure, wages, budgets etc... Wages and budgets slashed under his tenure so must be doing a decent job.....
Ramsey is Academy director so is charged with progressing the Youth and giving a pathway through to the first team. Eze, BOS, Chair, Manning etc suggest he is doing a good job...
Les as DOF? Player recruitment? Manager recruitment? I'm not sure tbh. |
It's a bit of a web, isn't it?
Hoos holds the purse strings which impacts on everything we see.
And while i'm not in the 'fa/efl conspiracy against QPR' camp, I really don't think it would be wise to break ffp again, considering the merry dance we led everyone on last time, as we seemingly f'ked up our future. | | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 12:57 - Dec 27 with 4925 views | corse |
Well, if his job is recruiments and contracts he has done a very poor job lately. I counted 17 players signed from elsewhere in less than 1 and a half year time (Warbs time here) and some with very long contracts and only one of them
(dickie) looks like he has anykind of a re sale value.
So thats a very poorly done job. Sackable in itself.
.
Eze would have been sold for good amount of cash without Sir Les.
Dont know about what it was with Manning but dont think he was that big loss. Decent midfielder poor defender.
BOS dont want to be here and is not worth silly wages because he isnt as good player as he think he is. There hasnt exactly been a line of managers waving open check books to sign him. Shone with Eze on his side as would any other player done. Cannot blame Sir Les for not cashing BOS. | | | |
| Ferdinand Out on 13:01 - Dec 27 with 4907 views | bosh67 |
| Ferdinand Out on 10:58 - Dec 27 by 1JD |
We did. Not all of it went out directly due to add on etc, but we committed 8m or near. But it’s a moot point, the recruitment is not good enough.
2m Bonne (as quoted by himself)
2m Dykes
2m Dickie
750k Willock
500k Amos
500k Kelman
That’s 7-8m. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 11:01]
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Most fees include an add-on for performances and promotIon (no hope of that) and sell on clause. As far as I know money actually spent was more like...
1.2m Bonne - rising to £1.75m with add-ons
1.6m Dykes - rising to £2m with add-ons and sell on clause
1.2m Dickie - rising £2m with add-ons and sell on clause
250k Willock - rising £500K with add-ons
250k Amos - rising £1m with add-ons and sell on clause
200k Kelman - rising £500K with add-ons and sell on clause
Free Thomas
Free Wallace
Thomas came on a free.
So in the region of £4.7m rather than the £7-8m quoted. That's 8 players in for less than 1 x Ivan Tonie (£5m plus add ons)... Although we should have probably just bought him instead! We got £16m now for Eze rising to £19.5m with add-ons and sell on clause. We got a pretty sad £250K for Manning (not the £150K reported).
Remembering we have lost Leistner, Hall, Pugh, Manning, Rangel, Eze, Luongo and Smith earlier on plus Wells and Hugill.
That's 10 players that kept us in this division over the past 16 months plus BOS on his way out. Lumley may well go too to reduce wages.
It's all well to shout and scream at Ferdinand but we got the world's biggest FFP fine and have had no choice but to move players on and massively reduce wages to survive. And then there is the pandemic to cope with financially.
The problem is you are having to lose experienced players at this level to survive and take in players mainly talking a step up, with almost no time to really settle. Amos is out for the season, Thomas needs a lot of minutes, yesterday was Bonne and Dykes first actual game as 2 up front, Dickie is having to step up, Kelman is a kid, Willock again has virtually no previous experience at this level, Wallace is beset with injuries and is struggling to cope at this level.
We can't spend £5m on an Ivan Tonie and afford to pay them. With the pandemic players of the calibre of Wells and Hugill are not being loaned out. There are no fans in the stadiums. Not sure if people really think about what the likes of Ferdinand, Hoos and Warburton are really expected to do given the circumstances of the club after the FFP fine and now the pandemic.
We're kind of lucky we still have a club. Others will fall. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 13:06]
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| Ferdinand Out on 13:21 - Dec 27 with 4801 views | bakerloo8 |
| Ferdinand Out on 13:01 - Dec 27 by bosh67 |
Most fees include an add-on for performances and promotIon (no hope of that) and sell on clause. As far as I know money actually spent was more like...
1.2m Bonne - rising to £1.75m with add-ons
1.6m Dykes - rising to £2m with add-ons and sell on clause
1.2m Dickie - rising £2m with add-ons and sell on clause
250k Willock - rising £500K with add-ons
250k Amos - rising £1m with add-ons and sell on clause
200k Kelman - rising £500K with add-ons and sell on clause
Free Thomas
Free Wallace
Thomas came on a free.
So in the region of £4.7m rather than the £7-8m quoted. That's 8 players in for less than 1 x Ivan Tonie (£5m plus add ons)... Although we should have probably just bought him instead! We got £16m now for Eze rising to £19.5m with add-ons and sell on clause. We got a pretty sad £250K for Manning (not the £150K reported).
Remembering we have lost Leistner, Hall, Pugh, Manning, Rangel, Eze, Luongo and Smith earlier on plus Wells and Hugill.
That's 10 players that kept us in this division over the past 16 months plus BOS on his way out. Lumley may well go too to reduce wages.
It's all well to shout and scream at Ferdinand but we got the world's biggest FFP fine and have had no choice but to move players on and massively reduce wages to survive. And then there is the pandemic to cope with financially.
The problem is you are having to lose experienced players at this level to survive and take in players mainly talking a step up, with almost no time to really settle. Amos is out for the season, Thomas needs a lot of minutes, yesterday was Bonne and Dykes first actual game as 2 up front, Dickie is having to step up, Kelman is a kid, Willock again has virtually no previous experience at this level, Wallace is beset with injuries and is struggling to cope at this level.
We can't spend £5m on an Ivan Tonie and afford to pay them. With the pandemic players of the calibre of Wells and Hugill are not being loaned out. There are no fans in the stadiums. Not sure if people really think about what the likes of Ferdinand, Hoos and Warburton are really expected to do given the circumstances of the club after the FFP fine and now the pandemic.
We're kind of lucky we still have a club. Others will fall. [Post edited 27 Dec 2020 13:06]
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Sensible post, but signing League 1 players will eventually lead only one way. | | | |
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