| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... 23:55 - Jan 7 with 11793 views | smegma |
Oh dear....... |  | | |  |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:53 - Jan 9 with 1346 views | BrianMcCarthy |
It's not an argument, Clive, it's a fear. |  |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:56 - Jan 9 with 1334 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Konk and ingeminate - I worked for a company in Joint Venture with a Haliburton subsidiary at the time of the first Iraq War. Haliburton at the time had secured by closed tendering 85% of the reconstruction contracts in Iraq. Haliburton, as we know, is part-owned and controlled by the Cheney-Bush axis. | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:59 - Jan 9 with 1331 views | MrSheen |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:53 - Jan 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
It's not an argument, Clive, it's a fear. |
Chomsky's analysis only sees economics and the Great Satan USA to blame for everything. Iran's been at war with its neighbours since the time of Cyrus the Great, over territory, ethnicity and religion, more than 2,000 years before the foundation of the US and the discovery of oil. The US is self-sufficient in oil, a commodity that's of diminishing importance in the decades to come. The rest will endure. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 18:13 - Jan 9 with 1315 views | MrSheen |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:56 - Jan 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
Konk and ingeminate - I worked for a company in Joint Venture with a Haliburton subsidiary at the time of the first Iraq War. Haliburton at the time had secured by closed tendering 85% of the reconstruction contracts in Iraq. Haliburton, as we know, is part-owned and controlled by the Cheney-Bush axis. |
At the time of the 2000 election, Dick Cheney owned 243,000 shares of Halliburton, or about 0.025% of the company.
Can't find any mention of GWB, though there was a historic connection (pre 1950s) with his family.
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/us/a-closer-look-at-cheney-and-halliburton.ht | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 18:15 - Jan 9 with 1312 views | CiderwithRsie |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:59 - Jan 9 by MrSheen |
Chomsky's analysis only sees economics and the Great Satan USA to blame for everything. Iran's been at war with its neighbours since the time of Cyrus the Great, over territory, ethnicity and religion, more than 2,000 years before the foundation of the US and the discovery of oil. The US is self-sufficient in oil, a commodity that's of diminishing importance in the decades to come. The rest will endure. |
...which is why I think Trump is engaged in eejitry.
The US doesn't need to have a fight with Iran and pre-Trump was moving to not have one, but for some reason Trump wants one. AFAICT it's to do the opposite of Obama.
The facts on the ground are that Iran will always be there, will always be the biggest centre of population east of Egypt and west of India, and the USA will always have other fish to fry from time to time. Killing a general or a hundred of them won't change that.
The biggest barrier to Iran, going back to Babylon, has always been the Tigris/Euphrates valley cities and with the US taking out Saddam, and the Iraqis being majority Shi'ite, the Iranians are sitting pretty long-term while the US wants out but can't get out.
(Taking out the Taliban helped Iran too, and the deceased helped with that - his obituary in The Times was a good read.) | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 18:19 - Jan 9 with 1307 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 17:59 - Jan 9 by MrSheen |
Chomsky's analysis only sees economics and the Great Satan USA to blame for everything. Iran's been at war with its neighbours since the time of Cyrus the Great, over territory, ethnicity and religion, more than 2,000 years before the foundation of the US and the discovery of oil. The US is self-sufficient in oil, a commodity that's of diminishing importance in the decades to come. The rest will endure. |
I think he was only replying to a specific question, Sheen, to be fair. Chomsky has also written at length on the evils of various Iranian regimes, including this one, and including in the article I posted. He's no Michael Moore, and is as balanced as I can find on the subject.
The U.S is close to self-sufficiency, tru, but is not 100% self-sufficient which is why - or so the argument goes (I can only go on what I read, I admit) - the need to control the supply and the market price of Middle Eastern oil at a minimum, and get discounts from friendly regimes if possible.
But again my fear - and it is only a fear, I stress - is that the Middles Eastern wars may well be equally about making Corporations rich as much as the U.S. Nation.
Folks, I'm not pushing an agenda here - I come on here because I learn so much stuff about subjects like this - and I'm genuinely curious. | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 18:20 - Jan 9 with 1304 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I know Cheney did divest prior to that election, and there was an investigation on that and he was cleared. But the Cheneys and Bushs are Haliburton royalty. I think we can safely say that. | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 00:02 - Jan 10 with 1157 views | Beckenhamhoop |
There was an interesting piece of intelligence revealed on Newsnight yesterday that Soleimani had instructed his proxy forces to increase the level of attacks on US military sites a couple of weeks ago. It was argued that this was to provoke a response from the Americans which would then distract the Iranian people from the widespread disturbances that had resulted in 1500 Iranians dying at the hands of their own police. It worked, although Soleimani being blown to smithereens wasn’t part of his master plan. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 00:29 - Jan 10 with 1144 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
That is horrific news if confirmed and regardless if it was an accident or deliberate its no consolation to those poor souls on board and their loved ones left without them. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 07:20 - Jan 10 with 1093 views | distortR |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 18:20 - Jan 9 by BrianMcCarthy |
I know Cheney did divest prior to that election, and there was an investigation on that and he was cleared. But the Cheneys and Bushs are Haliburton royalty. I think we can safely say that. |
The president of the USA is not allowed to profiteer from his position, under the American constitution emolument clauses - it's maybe somewhat surprising that trump isn't being impeached for that as well!
it's perhaps not surprising that iran has been pushing back at america when you look at the devastating economic blockade america has imposed on iran since it, america, unilaterally walked away from the nuclear accord that the u.n states iran was complying with.
Anyway, the permanent war economy grinds on. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 07:21 - Jan 10 with 1091 views | Hunterhoop |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 13:37 - Jan 9 by ingeminate |
True, but the cost of war is covered by taxation whereas the profits of war are shared by a small number of oil/arms companies. As you are aware those companies have tremendous influence in Capitol Hill. |
And Capitol Hill has a tremendous amount of financial investment (declared and otherwise) in those companies!
You’re spot on, mate. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 07:31 - Jan 10 with 1074 views | Hunterhoop |
And it’s not “just” about Oil. It was more so in the 90s and Iraq, but, Sheen is right, US levels of oil and gas output (mainly due to fracking) have meant it is much more sufficient if not totally..
But don’t forgot:
Construction
Telecoms
Arms
They are all massive industries which benefit from war. Knock it down and build it again. Govt, ie, publicly, funded...private contracts with profit margins shared by owners in a ltd company and shareholders in a plc.
And then there’s the upcoming US election. My understanding, although i’ve not seen numbers, just anecdotes, is that all incumbent parties in almost all western countries win elections if a war begins in the 12 months before the election.
The Middle East is the only region that ticks a lot of boxes above (the war needs to be winnable too!) AND a govt can use national security as a justification for it. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 09:40 - Jan 10 with 1017 views | jonno |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 00:29 - Jan 10 by CLAREMAN1995 |
That is horrific news if confirmed and regardless if it was an accident or deliberate its no consolation to those poor souls on board and their loved ones left without them. |
These people are barbaric and medieval, not to mention incompetent.Is it any wonder that the rest of the world doesn’t want them to have nuclear weapons? |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:24 - Jan 10 with 990 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 09:40 - Jan 10 by jonno |
These people are barbaric and medieval, not to mention incompetent.Is it any wonder that the rest of the world doesn’t want them to have nuclear weapons? |
They put a man on the moon in the 60s to be fair, but otherwise I mostly agree with you. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:27 - Jan 10 with 984 views | TacticalR |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:24 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
They put a man on the moon in the 60s to be fair, but otherwise I mostly agree with you. |
Yes, only one country has ever used such weapons. |  |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:49 - Jan 10 with 959 views | stevec |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:27 - Jan 10 by TacticalR |
Yes, only one country has ever used such weapons. |
Guess the only other option to stop the Japanese was send more British, Russian and American troops to get butchered.
I suppose when 75 million have already lost their lives in WW2, what's another few million?
Sometimes I despair. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:18 - Jan 10 with 929 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:24 - Jan 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
They put a man on the moon in the 60s to be fair, but otherwise I mostly agree with you. |
Let's all be very grateful Corbs isn't in a position to say anything of importance about the whole situation as we all know whose side he would be 100% behind. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:25 - Jan 10 with 917 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 10:49 - Jan 10 by stevec |
Guess the only other option to stop the Japanese was send more British, Russian and American troops to get butchered.
I suppose when 75 million have already lost their lives in WW2, what's another few million?
Sometimes I despair. |
Tactical’s point was about the hypocrisy than the legitimacy of of Nuclear weapons. Calm your tits. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:29 - Jan 10 with 912 views | joe90 |
Thought I'd give my 10 pence worth on the topic. For what it's worth my Dad is from Iran so I have a particular interest.
I'm not a fan of Trump and I'm also not a fan of the nuclear deal. However, Trumps direct approach is a good way of forcing Iran's hand and ultimately bringing them to the negotiation table. Whatever his reason for striking, it does put Iran back in it's place. The Iran regime as it is now isn't a force for good in the region. That's partly due to it's toxic ideology and it's also due to the Arab worlds failure to deal with Israel and it's own colonial legacy.
I don't believe a full on war is likely and in the past there have been numerous incidents that could have led to war that haven't and there's been better opportunities to strike.
When I think about how badly Iranians have treated each other it's overshadows what has been done by America and I just hope now Iran re-assess it's foreign policy and that sanctions eventually topple the regime. |  | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:43 - Jan 10 with 1219 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:29 - Jan 10 by joe90 |
Thought I'd give my 10 pence worth on the topic. For what it's worth my Dad is from Iran so I have a particular interest.
I'm not a fan of Trump and I'm also not a fan of the nuclear deal. However, Trumps direct approach is a good way of forcing Iran's hand and ultimately bringing them to the negotiation table. Whatever his reason for striking, it does put Iran back in it's place. The Iran regime as it is now isn't a force for good in the region. That's partly due to it's toxic ideology and it's also due to the Arab worlds failure to deal with Israel and it's own colonial legacy.
I don't believe a full on war is likely and in the past there have been numerous incidents that could have led to war that haven't and there's been better opportunities to strike.
When I think about how badly Iranians have treated each other it's overshadows what has been done by America and I just hope now Iran re-assess it's foreign policy and that sanctions eventually topple the regime. |
Thanks for the info, Joe. Very interesting. | |
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| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:44 - Jan 10 with 1214 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
1) US seems quite happy to let Pakistan have Nuclear weapons despite having the most unstable regime arguably in Asia and always on the brink of conflict with India.
2) US seems quite happy to let Israel have nuclear weapons despite firing more ordinance this century than all the other nations combined. | | | |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:49 - Jan 10 with 1196 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| It's all gone off in Iran / Iraq..... on 11:37 - Jan 10 by Ned_Kennedys |
So what? You know full well Corbyn would be fully behind Iran in this particular situation, making it very clear how much he despises the USA. He's got form. |
I know full well he wouldn’t back Iran and I know full well he doesn’t despise the US.
The only thing I know full well is you had never heard of Suliemeini before last Friday and you would probably struggle to find Iran on a map or your arse with both hands. [Post edited 10 Jan 2020 23:40]
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