| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! 23:43 - May 10 with 3805 views | FredManRave |
The theme running through the majority of post(er)s on nearly all the football related posts in the last week.
I know I've mentioned it recently on the Holloway "In/Out" poll but, fcek it, everybody else is starting new threads about the same subject and Clive needs his Holiday Peroni money so;
I still can't get my head round what I'm reading on here by the vast majority. I'm pretty sure it's the same erstwhile bunch that within the last couple of years were "shouting people down" who wanted to get rid of either/and/or (probably "and" in most cases) Ramsey and JFH and explaining the virtues of stability and being given time and that there is zero guarantee of improvement with making a change and history would suggest that in fact it would still be just as bad. Questioning the type of fans that we've become because when we don't get "instant" success then we ask for the managers head. Reiterating the fact that we're a mid to lower championship team and that our expectations should be in line with that fact, hard as that may be to take. I could go on, but I think I'm making my point.
And yet here we are now with what I believe to be the same group of people saying we should sack Holloway before the season even starts after his "disastrous" (their words not mine!) 6 month stint with us. And that's even taking into account that we are a much more settled club, off the field at least, than we have been for many a year.
I'm obviously not slagging anybody off, not by any means, everyone is entitled to their opinion even more so those that have to sit and suffer "it" but I'm just finding it so weird and ironic that so many people seem to have changed their tune on a theme that they were so vehemently backing the last two times this type of discussion was around; stability, no guarantee of improvement, no decent/obvious replacements, these things take time, dealing with FFP, no money to spend etc etc. And all of this "against" Holloway compared to the comparative backing that Ramsey and JFH recieved and yet they had as much personality, passion and pride between them as Holloway has got in his little finger. Not forgetting Holloways actual experience, both good and bad and standing, once good now quite bad, within the club.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong or there's something I'm missing but I really don't think there is on either count.
Not for the first time daveB is the person I find myself agreeing with most. His take on the situation is pretty much spot on, imo.
As there's no weird or ironic emoticon I'll have to leave this one which just sums up my reaction to the extreme negative reactions and criticisms Holloway is taking from so many;
 [Post edited 10 May 2017 23:48]
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 11:37 - May 11 with 1001 views | essextaxiboy |
I love Olly , I deperately want him to succeed , but I am concerned that his health is not up to it .During the losing run his interviews showed him as stressed and struggling and his descision making during that time backs that up IMO.
With a heavy heart I voted for him to go in the LFW poll . I j7st dont want him to blow a gasket or be sacked from this club. If he stays and is up for the fight then I am right with him .... |  | | |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 12:17 - May 11 with 978 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
I'm not one for calling for the head of managers. However, apart from Warnock (first time round), who I think should have been given to the summer no matter the outcome, I didn't mourn the loss of any of our other recent managers too much. It was actually a relief in some cases (for them and us). I don't feel like that this time. Even with all the losses. I think Holloway should have a full season to prove himself. Although I agree it'll be difficult now as a lot of fans have lost patience and who knows what the club are thinking. [Post edited 11 May 2017 13:02]
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 14:42 - May 11 with 922 views | LythamR |
I want Holloway to stay, he knows the players now and can have a good transfer window and pre season to try and improve the squad and first team
Thats assuming he wants to stay and beleives he can do the job required within the budget constraints. A very honest meeting between Holloway, Les and Hoos needs to take place if it hasnt already.
After that meeting if Holloway is up for it then Les and Hoos should back him for the season or let him go if they are unconvinced and think they have a better alternative
But it needs to be NOW. If we end up sacking another manager in November/December then I think the senior management (Les/Lee) would need to consider their own positions untenable |  | | |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 15:20 - May 11 with 912 views | R_from_afar |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 11:12 - May 11 by SimonJames |
I want to see the club playing a recognisable style of entertaining football that earns enough points to not have to worry about relegation in the last part of the season.
I don't give a monkey's who the manager is, provided they can deliver that - and I think they should be given at least a preseason and season (plus transfer windows) to achieve that.
But I suspect that Ollie is too erratic and inconsistent to deliver. I hope I'm wrong (and I'm done with worrying or speculating about that now until August). |
"I want to see the club playing a recognisable style of entertaining football that earns enough points to not have to worry about relegation in the last part of the season".
That's what a huge percentage of fans would like but therein lies part of the problem: we are calling for *three* things all at once, three things that may be mutually exclusive.
For clubs like QPR, just getting enough points to survive, by hook or by crook, in the long and fiercely competitive Championship is a huge challenge in itself, even before you start considering playing with a certain style and entertaining people.
Then there's also the fans' desire to blood our own youth players and the need to do all of the above within the confines of FFP (AKA "Keep the big clubs big").
Not easy....
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:23 - May 11 with 891 views | FredManRave |
There is now a round 100 votes for "Must Go" on the Holloway poll yet on here there is nobody backing that up and certainly nobody justifying either that point of view or referencing the comparison that I was making re Ramsey and/or JFH should have stayed yet Holloway "Must Go" now after less time than both.
Maybe the poll, being started so soon after the Norwich game and therefore the end of a dissapointing season brought out heat of the moment responses in most because reading this thread the vast majority, whislt acknowledging Holloways faults and mistakes are suggesting and actually hoping that he-s given the pre and then full season to try and steady this crazy ship and get it moving in the right direction.
Hoping for no "Iceberg" in 2017/18... [Post edited 11 May 2017 16:26]
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:27 - May 11 with 883 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:23 - May 11 by FredManRave |
There is now a round 100 votes for "Must Go" on the Holloway poll yet on here there is nobody backing that up and certainly nobody justifying either that point of view or referencing the comparison that I was making re Ramsey and/or JFH should have stayed yet Holloway "Must Go" now after less time than both.
Maybe the poll, being started so soon after the Norwich game and therefore the end of a dissapointing season brought out heat of the moment responses in most because reading this thread the vast majority, whislt acknowledging Holloways faults and mistakes are suggesting and actually hoping that he-s given the pre and then full season to try and steady this crazy ship and get it moving in the right direction.
Hoping for no "Iceberg" in 2017/18... [Post edited 11 May 2017 16:26]
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Poll
Never trust a fan to know what's best. |  |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 19:45 - May 11 with 812 views | QPR_Jim |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:23 - May 11 by FredManRave |
There is now a round 100 votes for "Must Go" on the Holloway poll yet on here there is nobody backing that up and certainly nobody justifying either that point of view or referencing the comparison that I was making re Ramsey and/or JFH should have stayed yet Holloway "Must Go" now after less time than both.
Maybe the poll, being started so soon after the Norwich game and therefore the end of a dissapointing season brought out heat of the moment responses in most because reading this thread the vast majority, whislt acknowledging Holloways faults and mistakes are suggesting and actually hoping that he-s given the pre and then full season to try and steady this crazy ship and get it moving in the right direction.
Hoping for no "Iceberg" in 2017/18... [Post edited 11 May 2017 16:26]
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I've backed up my reasons, you just don't agree with them.
Your point about good will ignores the two six match losing runs which have put people on edge, that should definitely be enough to allow people to ask questions.
Your general point about him being best placed to evaluate and strengthen the team having been here for 6 months is a good one but it doesn't really address the fear that he could be gone 3 months after spending the summer preparing them. That's not me saying he'll be hounded out by the fans in the way CR and JFH were, I think most will be back to wanting to stay the season if he is still here for pre-season but that doesn't really mean anything if we have a slow start or don't perform as the owners would like, it's completely out of our hands.
I think the strange thing about my vote for him to leave is that I wouldn't be that upset if he stayed, I just think it's for the best of the club that he doesn't because it seems inevitable that it will end with another mid-season change. If he stays I'll be more than happy to support him and would want to persevere to the end of the season regardless of results. It seems a different kind of wanting the manager sacked to those who were constantly on at CR and JFH unrelentingly, as if it was physically hurting them to have these people at the club, to the point that somebody wanted us to lose to speed up their departure. So it's different even if I'm not articulate enough to tell you exactly why. |  | | |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:10 - May 11 with 771 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:27 - May 11 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Poll
Never trust a fan to know what's best. |
Or a chairman. Or a DOF... |  |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:21 - May 11 with 767 views | terryb |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:23 - May 11 by FredManRave |
There is now a round 100 votes for "Must Go" on the Holloway poll yet on here there is nobody backing that up and certainly nobody justifying either that point of view or referencing the comparison that I was making re Ramsey and/or JFH should have stayed yet Holloway "Must Go" now after less time than both.
Maybe the poll, being started so soon after the Norwich game and therefore the end of a dissapointing season brought out heat of the moment responses in most because reading this thread the vast majority, whislt acknowledging Holloways faults and mistakes are suggesting and actually hoping that he-s given the pre and then full season to try and steady this crazy ship and get it moving in the right direction.
Hoping for no "Iceberg" in 2017/18... [Post edited 11 May 2017 16:26]
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I will try to answer ths Fred, but like life in general it will be full of contradictions. It also only explains my vote.
1) Voting that Ollie should go while supporting Ramsey & JFH is no more ironic/contrary than the posters that say he should stay while they campaigned for the other two to be dismissed. As I say, I doubt that any of us are always consistent with our views & change them on an almost daily basis.
2) I can't imagine that Holloway will be our manager for all of next season. Therefore, I would prefer that he was removed now rather than during the season. It would be rather nice if he was to prove me wrong!
3) I fully understand the arguement that we should not change our manager again & in principle agree with this. I also agreed with this in Otober/November 2015 & 2016. This is why I would prefer that if Ollie is still in charge come the start of pre season training that he remains so for the whole season, even if that ends in relegation.
4) I have little confidence in the ability of Ian Holloway & Mark Bircham to revive the club on the playing pitch. This is based on what I have seen of the team since there return, but I readily admit that for a while I thought that they had matured & gained far more knowledge/flexibility than they had shown in the past.
5) I can't understand why we should give them extra time/support because they are club legends. They have already received this! Any past manager of Queens Park Rangers that had lost 17 out of 30 league games would have received zero votes on a poll to retain their services. This was not extended to other legends when they were manager - Les Allen, Frank Sibley, Ray Wilkins, Gerry Francis (second spell) & Gary Waddock. Ian Dowie would have loved to have been given six months to prove his worth!
6) My vote is consistent with my views at the time of re-appointing Ollie. I believe that he was given the job for all the wrong reasons. I'm also sure that he will be retained this summer. Wrongly in my view, but that counts for nothing.
Whoever is our manager next season, I will be attending every home league game (health permitting) & a few away games, wanting Rangers to win every match & hopefully to entertain me.
Is that of any help? |  | | |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:23 - May 11 with 767 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 16:23 - May 11 by FredManRave |
There is now a round 100 votes for "Must Go" on the Holloway poll yet on here there is nobody backing that up and certainly nobody justifying either that point of view or referencing the comparison that I was making re Ramsey and/or JFH should have stayed yet Holloway "Must Go" now after less time than both.
Maybe the poll, being started so soon after the Norwich game and therefore the end of a dissapointing season brought out heat of the moment responses in most because reading this thread the vast majority, whislt acknowledging Holloways faults and mistakes are suggesting and actually hoping that he-s given the pre and then full season to try and steady this crazy ship and get it moving in the right direction.
Hoping for no "Iceberg" in 2017/18... [Post edited 11 May 2017 16:26]
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So is the general point we should all back Holloway next year even if he gets us relegated to Division 1? Whatever the results we should back him for the sake of 'stability'? No. 8ollocks to that. Two six game losing runs in less than a season when the club had only managed that 3 times before in 135 years. One win out of our last 8 games or 3 points from the 24 available. An array of baffling starting line ups, formations, mid game formation changes, substitutions... Publicly dissing players. Telling us we should look up to Brentford....! Don't look back at Blackpool - look at his recent history: Palace, Millwall and us being ars.ehole lucky not to get relegated. It's an insane appointment. | |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:46 - May 11 with 750 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:23 - May 11 by Northolt_Rs |
So is the general point we should all back Holloway next year even if he gets us relegated to Division 1? Whatever the results we should back him for the sake of 'stability'? No. 8ollocks to that. Two six game losing runs in less than a season when the club had only managed that 3 times before in 135 years. One win out of our last 8 games or 3 points from the 24 available. An array of baffling starting line ups, formations, mid game formation changes, substitutions... Publicly dissing players. Telling us we should look up to Brentford....! Don't look back at Blackpool - look at his recent history: Palace, Millwall and us being ars.ehole lucky not to get relegated. It's an insane appointment. |
"So is the general point we should all back Holloway next year even if he gets us relegated to Division 1?"
That wasn't his point, Northolt. |  |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 22:28 - May 11 with 724 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:46 - May 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
"So is the general point we should all back Holloway next year even if he gets us relegated to Division 1?"
That wasn't his point, Northolt. |
He did say nobody is backing up the Holloway Must Go votes in the poll. I just did. | |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 22:36 - May 11 with 714 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 22:28 - May 11 by Northolt_Rs |
He did say nobody is backing up the Holloway Must Go votes in the poll. I just did. |
True, but in fairness didn't say that we should all back Holloway next year even if he gets us relegated to Division 1 [Post edited 11 May 2017 22:37]
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 22:46 - May 11 with 705 views | Boston |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 11:36 - May 11 by londonscottish |
I'm looking forward to the close season and the relief that it brings.
I'm also guilty of being knee-jerk abut Ollie FWIW.
So hoped the whole club would settle down this season and there were lots of good signs on and off the pitch.
But then came losing streak 1, a glorious recovery and then losing streak 2 which just totally did my head in.
I'm not thinking rationally any more. |
It's worth remembering that the overwhelming majority of Rangers fans never go near a message board and rarely worry about owners, manager or club debt....bloody sensible idea. | |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 00:12 - May 12 with 687 views | FredManRave |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:21 - May 11 by terryb |
I will try to answer ths Fred, but like life in general it will be full of contradictions. It also only explains my vote.
1) Voting that Ollie should go while supporting Ramsey & JFH is no more ironic/contrary than the posters that say he should stay while they campaigned for the other two to be dismissed. As I say, I doubt that any of us are always consistent with our views & change them on an almost daily basis.
2) I can't imagine that Holloway will be our manager for all of next season. Therefore, I would prefer that he was removed now rather than during the season. It would be rather nice if he was to prove me wrong!
3) I fully understand the arguement that we should not change our manager again & in principle agree with this. I also agreed with this in Otober/November 2015 & 2016. This is why I would prefer that if Ollie is still in charge come the start of pre season training that he remains so for the whole season, even if that ends in relegation.
4) I have little confidence in the ability of Ian Holloway & Mark Bircham to revive the club on the playing pitch. This is based on what I have seen of the team since there return, but I readily admit that for a while I thought that they had matured & gained far more knowledge/flexibility than they had shown in the past.
5) I can't understand why we should give them extra time/support because they are club legends. They have already received this! Any past manager of Queens Park Rangers that had lost 17 out of 30 league games would have received zero votes on a poll to retain their services. This was not extended to other legends when they were manager - Les Allen, Frank Sibley, Ray Wilkins, Gerry Francis (second spell) & Gary Waddock. Ian Dowie would have loved to have been given six months to prove his worth!
6) My vote is consistent with my views at the time of re-appointing Ollie. I believe that he was given the job for all the wrong reasons. I'm also sure that he will be retained this summer. Wrongly in my view, but that counts for nothing.
Whoever is our manager next season, I will be attending every home league game (health permitting) & a few away games, wanting Rangers to win every match & hopefully to entertain me.
Is that of any help? |
All good and understandable points Terry. There really is no right or wrong answer in this, it is, as always, about opinions.
My main theme throughout this has been that being aware of our recent history in appointing managers and their subsequent short time at the club I'm surprised at how many want Holloway out. I'm not ignoring the 2x6 defeats in a row but then as you mentioned, as did most on here, that 7 match period just a couple of months ago appeared to show an improvement in tactics and approach. A real positive. And there were others. He is now 6 months into the job and I just think it is worthwhile giving him time to build something. Best case scenario it could be something good. Worst case scenario, we do exactly what we've done in the last 3 years! There is absolutely no guarantee, either way but imo we'll have a better chance of steadying the ship and building some stability and vision within the club if we can actually keep hold of a manager for more than 1 year.
I'll admit, to an extent, that my point about him being an exRanger and as such meaning that he should be given more breathing space, so to speak, is fairly weak, however, I've used it based on his four predecessors and the disconnect that there was between club and fans at the time of his arrival. Firstly, his predecessors were Hughes, Redknapp, Ramsey and JFH. Rightly or (probably) wrongly they just weren't the "calibre" of people I want to be managing QPR. The first two were only ever in it for themselves. And the last two personality bypass operations were both a complete and utter success. In summary all 4 being part of the reason for the disconnect between club and fans not just the dogshÃt on the pitch. Which is why, heart ruling head admittedly, I was pleased with Holloways appointment. And it's not like he was "just an Explayer". He came with experience and a decent Championship CV.
I'm sure nearly all of us are actually hoping for the same thing. That Holloway is still with su at the end of the next season because let's face it, with our owners, that will mean it will have been a successful one. I'll let somebody else define successful.
Hope you're able to go to every home game and that you're entertained in most of them! | |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 00:13 - May 12 with 685 views | FredManRave |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 22:46 - May 11 by Boston |
It's worth remembering that the overwhelming majority of Rangers fans never go near a message board and rarely worry about owners, manager or club debt....bloody sensible idea. |
Ah, you mean the Non Real fans. | |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 00:18 - May 12 with 681 views | FredManRave |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 21:23 - May 11 by Northolt_Rs |
So is the general point we should all back Holloway next year even if he gets us relegated to Division 1? Whatever the results we should back him for the sake of 'stability'? No. 8ollocks to that. Two six game losing runs in less than a season when the club had only managed that 3 times before in 135 years. One win out of our last 8 games or 3 points from the 24 available. An array of baffling starting line ups, formations, mid game formation changes, substitutions... Publicly dissing players. Telling us we should look up to Brentford....! Don't look back at Blackpool - look at his recent history: Palace, Millwall and us being ars.ehole lucky not to get relegated. It's an insane appointment. |
All I'm saying is that I think that in this moment in time we should back him, give him the preseason and then let's see how we go that's basically it. I've stated my reasons why I think that previously. It's just my opinion but nowhere have I said that he should be untouchable throughout next season. It's a results business, we all know and realise that. I just want him to be given the chance being only 6 months into the job rather than starting again with zero guarantee that anybody else will be able to do or be better.
Let's at least give him a fair crack of the whip... | |
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| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 12:01 - May 12 with 626 views | Brightonhoop |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 00:18 - May 12 by FredManRave |
All I'm saying is that I think that in this moment in time we should back him, give him the preseason and then let's see how we go that's basically it. I've stated my reasons why I think that previously. It's just my opinion but nowhere have I said that he should be untouchable throughout next season. It's a results business, we all know and realise that. I just want him to be given the chance being only 6 months into the job rather than starting again with zero guarantee that anybody else will be able to do or be better.
Let's at least give him a fair crack of the whip... |
Sound and reasonable opinion. Stability over a relegation dog fight 8 days a week for me too.
However I've lost faith, all faith, that Ollie will achieve anything and I have no doubts he will relegate us next season. The two 6 losing runs, that he spun as 'not winning in 6 games.' No Ollie, no points at all in 6 games. Twice. And the capitulation to a poor Norwich side, just finished it off for me. So thanks for the memories Ollie but good bye. |  | | |
| Give Me An I, R, O, N, Y. What have you got?! on 10:07 - May 13 with 547 views | francisbowles |
I am not sure about this at all, being pulled in both directions.
My biggest problem with the last two changes is that we have been lower mid table on both occasions and a couple of results from climbing the table in October! There was no real need to panic in either case. The new incumbents then managed to make the situation exceedingly worse and more alarming in the first 8-10 games, before we saw an improvement and our worries begin to fade. In the later instance, of course, those worries reappeared.
If the club decide to back Ollie, then we should see how it goes. If we carry on with our end of season form and have another disastrous start like we did under Hughes, then even if it is October we would need to change but otherwise we should carry on and as long as we are at least in touch with safety ride it out.
The action we would need to take now would be to get him a more experienced number two. | | | |
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