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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:33 - Nov 24 by Lord_Bony
Ha haha...dont be silly now Tommy boy.,no way are we going to miss out on another war....we re goin in up to our necks on this one mate...
Cameron will put his case forward to the House of Commons next week...he ll get the vote this time on the back of the Paris bombings....Tally ho....
Feck me even the Israelis are having a pop and no one invited them to the party...yes its all brewing nicely...all we need is another major incident with all these different jets flying about the place...
I agree here. I posted previously that who would like to be ground troops when 12 different nations flying overhead and bombing. On reflection I would ask who would like to be one of the 12 with twitchy anti aircraft batteries below and a danger of misidentifying when flying. Unless someone in Turkey is a complete madman I am sure this is a friendly fire error. There is truly a major incident if this has happened with the Turkish Government's backing. The UN has passed a motion. Virtually all nations want to SE the end of ISIS. It would be madness if war breaks our between those sharing this ideal because we are so disorganised that friendly fire is killing troops on the ground and aircraft shot out of the skies. We need a coordinated effort with a central leadership.
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:16 - Nov 24 with 2747 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 12:26 - Nov 24 by Dr_Winston
You can see why Sumbler is so popular over there, despite the corruption and the Western media's attempts to paint him as a villain. He's dragged a leviathan from its knees and given it pride and a place in the world again.
Still a shithole of a country chock full of racists and drunks, but one nobody f*cks with any more.
In my experience you are bang on. I spent six weeks in Russia early last year and was surprised at the support for Putin - from the older generation of miserably conditioned ex Soviets to the new generation of liberalised arty gay student types from St Petersburg and Moscow and even the the native Ukrainians - to a man they seemed to know exactly what Putin is and acknowledge that he is everything they need in a leader.
‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:05 - Nov 24 by Private_Partz
I agree here. I posted previously that who would like to be ground troops when 12 different nations flying overhead and bombing. On reflection I would ask who would like to be one of the 12 with twitchy anti aircraft batteries below and a danger of misidentifying when flying. Unless someone in Turkey is a complete madman I am sure this is a friendly fire error. There is truly a major incident if this has happened with the Turkish Government's backing. The UN has passed a motion. Virtually all nations want to SE the end of ISIS. It would be madness if war breaks our between those sharing this ideal because we are so disorganised that friendly fire is killing troops on the ground and aircraft shot out of the skies. We need a coordinated effort with a central leadership.
...the thing is you can't put together coordinated central leadership - as the key issue is Shia Muslims (backed by Iran and Russia) verses conservative Sunni Muslims backed by Saudi Arabia/Turkey backed by USA (and Cameron).
ISIS is a smoke screen - Saudi Arabia and USA don't want to take them out.
.....and people take the pi$$ out of Corbyn for not wanting us to get involved in this.
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:35 - Nov 24 with 2701 views
Top U.S, Democrat calls on Obama to stop helping ISIS and a potential showdown with the Russians...well done that lady,talks a lot of sense here....
Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii, said the U.S. and Russia are on a collision course over Syria that could result in World War III if not de-escalated.
Wolf Blitzer asked her how that collision could be avoided. Her answer was as follows:
“Very simple. The U.S. and the CIA should stop this illegal and counter-productive war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad and should stay focused on fighting against who our enemy is, the Islamic extremist groups,” she said. “Because right now we’re seeing why this is counter-productive, by working towards that end, by working toward the overthrow of Assad we are not only strengthening our enemy, the Islamic extremists, who will walk in and take over all of the country Syria, right now they have about half of the country under their control, but it also puts us in that position of a potential direct head to head conflict with Russia which brings us to the brink of a potential larger conflict, a potential World War III situation.”
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:18 - Nov 24 by Nookiejack
...the thing is you can't put together coordinated central leadership - as the key issue is Shia Muslims (backed by Iran and Russia) verses conservative Sunni Muslims backed by Saudi Arabia/Turkey backed by USA (and Cameron).
ISIS is a smoke screen - Saudi Arabia and USA don't want to take them out.
.....and people take the pi$$ out of Corbyn for not wanting us to get involved in this.
Very true. There are huge problems in coordinating this. More seriously it seems that that the aircraft was downed by Turkish fighters after it allegedly repeatedly invaded their air space. It appears the pilots ejected which is some good news. A coordinated effort has to be made somehow and in the meantime I would concur we should not get involved. 'Too many cooks' spring to mind here.
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 13:53 - Nov 24 with 2663 views
For those more well read in this than I. In the hypothetical situation where Russia decides to retaliate against Turkey, does that drag the UK and other NATO countries into a potential conflict? Also, is any kind of retaliation likely?
Upthecity!
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 15:01 - Nov 24 with 2597 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 14:30 - Nov 24 by yescomeon
For those more well read in this than I. In the hypothetical situation where Russia decides to retaliate against Turkey, does that drag the UK and other NATO countries into a potential conflict? Also, is any kind of retaliation likely?
The North Atlantic Treaty states quite clearly that if a member state is attacked all others are obliged to come to its aid.
EDIT: I predict this will be the end for NATO.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2015 15:07]
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 15:17 - Nov 24 with 2573 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 14:30 - Nov 24 by yescomeon
For those more well read in this than I. In the hypothetical situation where Russia decides to retaliate against Turkey, does that drag the UK and other NATO countries into a potential conflict? Also, is any kind of retaliation likely?
It should also be noted that NATO or any of its allies have not formerly been invited into Syria yet by the elected legitimate government.
The only ones who are in there legally at the moment are the Russians,Chinese and Iranians...who are there at the request of the Syrian government to help them combat ISIS in order to prevent them taking over the country.
The objective of NATO and its allies is to overthrow the Assad regime...a dangerous strategy as it leaves it wide open for ISIS to take over the country should Assad go.
Technically, the Syrian government could shoot down NATO planes flying over it s sovereign airspace according to international law which all countries abide by.
One big mess...especially if the Israelis over the border become more involved....
This post has been edited by an administrator
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
I personally would not like NATO to defend Turkey if it came to retaliation in any way. Turkey have made their own bed on this and many other issues regarding terrorism.
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 16:21 - Nov 24 by EvenThisNameIsTaken
I personally would not like NATO to defend Turkey if it came to retaliation in any way. Turkey have made their own bed on this and many other issues regarding terrorism.
It would seem strange that NATO would get involved as Turkey shot down the the Russian plane without their blessing. I suspect it will be a diplomatic crisis however rather than a military one. We can't even agree on bombing Syria. I doubt we would agree to full on fisticuffs between NATO members and Russia, China and Iran. WW3 indeed and we all now how this one would end.....
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
0
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 17:35 - Nov 24 with 2392 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 17:24 - Nov 24 by Private_Partz
It would seem strange that NATO would get involved as Turkey shot down the the Russian plane without their blessing. I suspect it will be a diplomatic crisis however rather than a military one. We can't even agree on bombing Syria. I doubt we would agree to full on fisticuffs between NATO members and Russia, China and Iran. WW3 indeed and we all now how this one would end.....
Was it Einstein who said something along the lines of 'I don't know what weapons will be used to fight World War III but I do know that World War IV will be fought with stick and stones'.
Honestly, the excitement which people show at the prospect of a 'World War' is unbelievable to me.
Russia, nor for the first time, invaded someone else's airspace (they've done it with us on several occasions recently). Turkey called their bluff (stupidly). Putin will know that he's in the wrong, and Nato will posture about supporting a fellow member (although quite why we don't chuck Turkey out and tell them in no uncertain terms to stop funding IS, and we don't care what they think the impact will be on the Kurds is beyond me).
There's be a bit of peacock strutting and it will die down. Because at the end of the day, the Russians, Europeans, Americans and Chinese have absolutely NO collective appetite for anything other than sorting out the terrorist issue. None of us have the money for anything else.
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 17:38 - Nov 24 with 2385 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 17:35 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001
Was it Einstein who said something along the lines of 'I don't know what weapons will be used to fight World War III but I do know that World War IV will be fought with stick and stones'.
Honestly, the excitement which people show at the prospect of a 'World War' is unbelievable to me.
Russia, nor for the first time, invaded someone else's airspace (they've done it with us on several occasions recently). Turkey called their bluff (stupidly). Putin will know that he's in the wrong, and Nato will posture about supporting a fellow member (although quite why we don't chuck Turkey out and tell them in no uncertain terms to stop funding IS, and we don't care what they think the impact will be on the Kurds is beyond me).
There's be a bit of peacock strutting and it will die down. Because at the end of the day, the Russians, Europeans, Americans and Chinese have absolutely NO collective appetite for anything other than sorting out the terrorist issue. None of us have the money for anything else.
Hope you're right Lisa, I've got about 10yrs left in work [unfortunately] and I'm looking forward to retiring
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 17:35 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001
Was it Einstein who said something along the lines of 'I don't know what weapons will be used to fight World War III but I do know that World War IV will be fought with stick and stones'.
Honestly, the excitement which people show at the prospect of a 'World War' is unbelievable to me.
Russia, nor for the first time, invaded someone else's airspace (they've done it with us on several occasions recently). Turkey called their bluff (stupidly). Putin will know that he's in the wrong, and Nato will posture about supporting a fellow member (although quite why we don't chuck Turkey out and tell them in no uncertain terms to stop funding IS, and we don't care what they think the impact will be on the Kurds is beyond me).
There's be a bit of peacock strutting and it will die down. Because at the end of the day, the Russians, Europeans, Americans and Chinese have absolutely NO collective appetite for anything other than sorting out the terrorist issue. None of us have the money for anything else.
I agree and I hope you are right on the peacock strutting. I think you are btw. It is still a dangerous game to play regardless. We have a serious issue to deal with and posturing by the US and its allies v Russia and its allies will not help the situation. Obama and Putin should be locked in a room with their respective interpreters until they can come up with a plan we can all move forward with. Turkey should be reprimanded by all groups in the West and sympathy sent out to the relatives of the apparently murdered Russian airmen.
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
0
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:00 - Nov 24 with 2362 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 17:47 - Nov 24 by Private_Partz
I agree and I hope you are right on the peacock strutting. I think you are btw. It is still a dangerous game to play regardless. We have a serious issue to deal with and posturing by the US and its allies v Russia and its allies will not help the situation. Obama and Putin should be locked in a room with their respective interpreters until they can come up with a plan we can all move forward with. Turkey should be reprimanded by all groups in the West and sympathy sent out to the relatives of the apparently murdered Russian airmen.
It is a dangerous game, but thankfully, I don't think Putin is quite the idiot that some seem to believe.
Neither is Obama, and I'm pretty certain the first call will have been between them.
And I'm sure Turkey in private will be told in no uncertain terms. however, a public reprimanding for, on the face of it, protecting an incursion into their own airspace is unlikely (unless we really are on the point of no return with the Turks - which we should be, in my view).
Agreed completely on the Russian airmen.
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Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:31 - Nov 24 with 2325 views
Russian warplanne shot down by Turkey (who are in NATO) on 18:03 - Nov 24 by londonlisa2001
It is a dangerous game, but thankfully, I don't think Putin is quite the idiot that some seem to believe.
Neither is Obama, and I'm pretty certain the first call will have been between them.
And I'm sure Turkey in private will be told in no uncertain terms. however, a public reprimanding for, on the face of it, protecting an incursion into their own airspace is unlikely (unless we really are on the point of no return with the Turks - which we should be, in my view).
Agreed completely on the Russian airmen.
I agree we are at point if no return with the Turks. We have had countless incursions into airspace throughout Europe. Why on earth do they pick a moment like this to shoot down the aircraft and a Russion one at that. I thought the flight map evidence they used was decidedly dodgy as well. I am open to correction here but the area is minute compared of the size of Turkey. How an earth they got ten warnings in I will never know.
You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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