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Saints V Fulham The Verdict
Saints V Fulham The Verdict
Monday, 8th Oct 2012 09:28

Saints just cannot afford to keep throwing games away due to our inability to hold a lead.

Saints has a dream start to this televised fixture when Jose Fonte headed them into a fourth minute lead and to be honest it could well have been 3 or 4 at half time as a plethora of chances were spurned, Puncheon couldnt force the ball home at close range and Rickie Lambert missed a couple the second of which he hit straight at the keepr when hitting across goal would have been the better choice.

In the second half the old problems started to emerge, Adam Lallana started to drift out of position on too many occasions and it was leaving the left back exposed, it was a similar problem on the right, Jason Puncheon was playing well in the middle third, but in the defensive third he too was getting caught out of position and helping Yoshida who clearly wasnt a natural right back and not comfortable there, in the final third too many times Puncheon got the ball and ran himself into blind alleys causing us problems on the break.

But as the game wore on we were struggling to defend and clear balls,panic was starting to set in and it was no surprise that the equaliser came from an error, with 20 minutes to go you sensed that there would only be one winner and it wouldnt be us, the only surprise is that the next Fulham goal took so long to arrive, what looked like the winner provoked a mass exodus amongst the home fans, those that stayed though saw a barnstorming finish with Jose Fonte netting his second and turning the screw on Fulham who despite a succession of corners hung on for a point.

But once again the spotlight is on Nigel Adkins selections and substitutions, of course he wasnt helped by the unavailability of both Ramirez and Clyne although this did prompt him into playing a 4-4-2 formation which in truth worked despite Lambert and Rodriguez being a little too similar in style, Adkins first substitution was forced upon him, you cant legislate for injury but what you have to have is someone on the bench who can play in every position, the choice of Hooiveld to come on and push Yoshida to right back smacked of desperation, personally I would have preferred to throw Ben Reeves into that position, ok he is left footed but would have had a mobility needed at full back that Yoshida lacked, no reflection on Yoshida here he dug in and put in a good display, but he just wasnt comfortable.

The second substitution though was fairly straight forward, Puncheon as mentioned earlier was struggling for the final ball and not helping Yoshida on the back foot, Chaplow offered some steel and energy needed at the time, but you couldnt legislate for the next change.

Personally I was not surprised that it was Lambert who made way, he had worked hard and he was tiring fast, at this level you cant let sentiment get in the way and carry a player in the hope that he will pull out a wonder goal, Lambert's withdrawal although not completely obvious was probably the right one, the choice of replacement was not.

I as many will know am not a Guly hater like some, I think he is a decent player, but why was he the put on in place of Mayuka, Nigel Adkins has said that with his recent abscence his energy levels were high, personally I think thats codswallop, any of our substitutes should be capable of playing a high tempo game for 20 minutes or so and on the case of energy levels Mayuka's 39 minutes in the three games he has featured in hasnt exactly tired him out I would suspect.

Sorry Nigel this is just a baffling substitution, the only reason I could see to do it was to revert to a 4-5-1 as you appeared to do with Guly seemingly having a free role to float around, but 1-0 up you had better choices, Jamie Ward-Prowse for instance would have been ideal to come into the centre, or even sort out the problem of Lallana drifting out of position on the left by bringing him into that forward central role and bringing on Ben Reeves, Guly didnt play badly, but given that he hadnt played in the league in the last month and that he had actually more minutes on the pitch in that month than Mayuka in that he played against Sheff Weds in the league cup, that sort of blows your energy levels theory out of the water, sadly it was a poor decision and one that could have cost us a lot more dearly than it did, in that it disrupted the team.

Its hard to take too many positives from this game other than that the point took us out of the bottom three again, like the Wigan game, it was a fixture that we had to look to take maximum points from, the spell from hell had all the excuses under the sun why we were getting beaten and conceding soft goals, this was a game when the time for excuses was over, but once again we conceded soft goals.

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Pecky3 added 10:12 - Oct 8
I too found the substitutions baffling as did many of those around me at the game. It is difficult to be too critical of the Manager but on the other hand it his his job to make correct decisions on substitutions. I agree with you that poor Maya Yoshida looked baffled when moved to right back and you can't blame the player - once again down to the manager.

I still go back to the lack of defensive signings in the transfer window. God knows what will happen when Bale and Lennon attack us down the wings next home game!
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simmo400 added 10:21 - Oct 8
Was a game of 2 halves. Again we were guilty of wasting opertunities in front of goal which again came back to haunt us. We could have been 3 up in the first half and the game woldhave been over as Fulham seemed to have a worse defence than ours. Second half we didnt really get started at all. NA seems to take off our better players and just after he does the oppostion seem to score. John Risa had a bad day at the office mainly due to Puncheon being in his face but what happened ? Puncheon off and 1 min later Risa un marked to fire in a shot. NA days are numbered I think.
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DJI added 10:24 - Oct 8
Interesting verdict Nick and one I agree with in the main, especially on the SRL substitution. For large parts of this game I thought we kept our shape well and defended from the front. Our midfield were superb yesterday and made a big difference when compared to the Everton game. In fact I would have given MOTM to either Morgan or S Davis.

In the first half we really looked like a team that didn't want to concede any goals with everyone doing their bit to defend in all areas of the pitch. Of course there will be times when the opposition get a period of dominance and at first, it looked like we would weather it, until the reckless defending from Jos gave them a goal and a foothold into the game. I don't know what you think but it seemed to deflate the crowd and players; I for one was fuming at that point and felt sick we had just given Fulham a goal they didn't deserve.

Certainly I don't want to hear any more of the PR saying how we are learning or how we are working hard to keep clean sheets; I want action now, not words. I left SMS yesterday feeling like it was 2 points thrown away, not 1 point gained.

When I got home, I watched the game again and right after, watched the Spurs/Villa match. What a contrast that was with Spurs passing the ball at pace and into good positions with only a few touches. Some of our guys needs to think more quickly and know when to just put the ball into the box. As Nick said, there were times yesterday when we went into blind alleys on the right and took too much time there allowing Fulham to regroup. I'm disappointed with yesterday of course but unlike some of the bed wetters, don't feel Adkins should be sacked! The players have got to take some responsibility for this.
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slynch added 10:54 - Oct 8
The concerns over the substitutions are all irrelevant. If he had brought on Ronaldo and Messi it would have made no difference. The defenders can't defend, especially the full backs. Every time there was a corner the defenders all pile in to where the ball is. So with a near post cross a chasm develops at the back post, usually occupied by a couple of strikers wondering where everyone is!
Further out the players enthusiasm to help each other means no one marks the man who hasn't got the ball so when he gets it two defenders are uselessly out of position. I struggle to comprehend how they can call themselves professional players when then don't know what they are doing. If you went to a dentist and found he couldn't pull teeth you'd wonder a bit?
To be fair the day was a bit injury ravaged but the team is gonna have to limp through to the next window, then Lallana, Fox and Clyne have got to retire to the bench and be replaced by less naivety.
Sorry.
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tiptop added 11:02 - Oct 8
I guess NA went for Yoshida at RB with his experience etc instead of Ben Reeves - if NA was even seriously thinking of BR as an option. I think he is ready for a chance btw. What is there to lose?

As for Ricky off. Dont get that. Tiring? Really? It maybe so in which case fair enough, there is an explanation I can wear..just. No coincidence that everybody around me was shocked and mouthing WTF?!

We lacked pace. Why no Mayuka? as you said.
Agree Guly did ok when he came on but it was the wrong choice.
NA must want to get Jay Rod's confidence up because he believes he can be a big threat. Problem is he is doing very little in the meantime. Even playing up front. He would have benefited from having someone different like Mayuka to play with more then Guly imo.

Even so the thing for me watching was both teams looked average and there for the taking. We didn't get hold of the ball, boss it nor finish as we could have done.
Saints confidence is obviously wobbling a bit under the positive exterior. Losing Richardson on top of Clyne and Ramirez ...and then Yoshida to RB did not help that!
Well done Fonte BTW. Much berated here but is raising his game at least and scoring.
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landsdownsaint added 11:05 - Oct 8
Hoovield and Fonte were terrible at the back again,I thought Guly came on and changed the game!
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SingaporeSaint added 11:07 - Oct 8
Agree with most of above. I didnt think we were great in the first half btw - Fulham were there for the taking and we didnt take them!

Not sure when we knew Clyne was injured, but given Fox has been injured (and a clear weakness) I would have expected another fullback on the bench. To take our best and leading defender and put him right back was entirely preventable and Hooiveld was an accident waiting to happen. He could easily have cost us in the first half when Fulham hadnt been a threat. Another option would have been to put a solid battler like a chaplow, Reeves, JWP at fullback and kept Yoshida to organise.

Not sure on the 4-4-2. He seemed to have JRod up top and RL behind him (and chasing flick ons) - which were rarely 'on' as J Rod never won clean ball. Clearly you need do that the other way round and have RL winning balls and JRod getting to the knock downs. I am not impressed with J Rod so far.

Punch was pretty poor but I'm not sure about the sub - I like Chaplow but he almost played to protect full back and we had no outlet on the right - I'd have preferred someone like Mayuka there, and create a wide threat. The RL for Guly substitution was another extraodinary one - we suddenly had no energy, no threat and no-one to win or hold the ball up and 25 mins still to go! We were trying to hold on and NA must have been the only man in the ground who thought we looked like keeping a clean sheet.

This is 2 points given away as Fulham were poor although we gave them 70% of the ball on our pitch! There were 3 positives for me - we got a point we didnt deserve, Gazza put in another decent display and was central to us getting something and the Schneiderlin, by some way our best player, was not sent off as he had to get a second yellow!
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OldRed added 11:12 - Oct 8
How Hooiveld managed to put that ball in the net is beyond me, and I agree, Yoshida looked uncomfortable at right back but although he defended well, there was no excuse for some of his passing, which goes for a few others in the 2nd half as well. It seems we've forgotten a simple pass when it's needed. Chaplow would have been an option at right back IMO. It's a shame but I think NA's days are numbered as some of the players look a bit disillusioned. I know we had Clyne & Ramirez both injured, but team selection has looked random this season, obviously NA knows the players and sees them in training all week but the selection and tactics are at times baffling.
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Jesus_02 added 11:39 - Oct 8
Gully played well when he came on, Chappy did not.

Adkins is a good manager but he goes on about psychology and then doesnt take it into account when making substitutions. The crowd where edgy at 1-0 that was getting to the players...and he substitutes the crowd favorite for the regular scapegoat...madness

If he had subbed Chappy for Ricky then i dont think we would be debating it and we would have probably seen the game out
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SaintNick added 11:41 - Oct 8
Chaplow came on and did the job he was there for and that was to shore up the right hand side, at that stage it was all about protecting a 1-0 lead
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Whatsforpud added 11:48 - Oct 8
Lambert should have been kept on as he is always capable of turning a game. Having said that, re his shot that Swartzer beat away, he would have done better to have transferred the ball to his right foot for a wider angle. Nothing much was working for Lallana, and he could well have been taken off instead.

I think it is worth mentioning the disallowed goal. When you see Sky's repeat, there was nothing in it to warrant the keeper going down. They were saying that it would have been considered a dive if a forward had done the same.

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landsdownsaint added 11:49 - Oct 8
When RL went off and Guly did come on we were able to hold the ball better! It's amazing how people see the game different,I also thought Puncheon done well.We lose games everyweek through the same mistakes by the same people,i love NA but the likes of Chaplow ,J Rod both CB just ain't PL
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darkangelv2 added 12:05 - Oct 8
As said, a definite game of 2 halves to me.

Yoshi did look like he struggled with the unfamiliar position and Puncheon struggled to play with him. Punch still had a pretty good game though i thought.

Schneiderlin is vital this season.

Lallana by his standards had a poor game, 1st half ok but 2nd not up to scratch.

The comments above about Guly changing the game i find a little baffling. He only really woke up after Fulham had scored their second.

Overall, i'm just disappointed we hadn't polished them off in the first half during our dominating period.
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bstokesaint added 12:37 - Oct 8
A disappointing result, and we really need to work on shoring up the defence in the international break. Injuries to Richardson and Clyne are big blows and Fox is still a bit worry. It's a shame his defending doesn't match his superb ball delivery. Jos had a howler with the two deflected goals and really needs to raise his game. He'll be useful for games against the likes of Andy Carroll, but for me the Yoshida-Fonte is currently our best partnership at the back. I thought Schneiderlin and Davis were excellent in the middle of the park yesterday and challenged for everything. Puncheon generally defended well, but his final ball often lacked conviction. I feel a bit sorry for Rodriguez up the top. He's clearly not used to his role but his workrate is good and I have seen enough quality from him previously to suggest he is a quality player. His time will come.

My stance isn't going to change from backing Adkins. Yes, he makes some odd substitutions sometimes, but he knows his players better than the average fan as much as they probably think otherwise. Sadly I think the pressure on him is mounting and he may have to spring a surprise result or two to stave off the critics. I really hope he does. It’ll be a sad day when we part services with our most successful manager for some time. We’ll only move forward with consistency.

A great point by Whatsforpud too. The TV commentary suggested that there was a clear infringement on Schwarzer for the disallowed goal. What a load of crap. If that was enough to floor a keeper the theatrics of today's game are only going to get worse. Typically goalkeepers are the biggest, strongest players on the pitch. Puncheon made Schwarzer feel uncomfortable and he went down. It's as simple as that. We should have had a 2-0 lead.
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131153 added 13:07 - Oct 8
Very dissapointing again, you get a great sense of deja-vu on the relgation season Everton and Aston Villa at home were the games that put us down. From my seat close to the halfway line couldn't see a foul on the keeper for the disallowed goal and now seeing it on TV just a joke,I struggle to see how Ref saw a foul from his position on pitch. It is possible linesman flagged but would have neede good eyesight to see JP touch the keeper. I felt NA made all the right decisions yesterday apart from Guly, agree should have bought on Mayuka. Morgan is player of the season so far by a country mile, I thought he would be virtually from the first time I saw him thought would be ideal for Premiership.
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REEDYREEDOREEDZ added 14:09 - Oct 8
Just to clear up Puncheon's disallowed goal; the foul was given for Lambert holding down Hughes when he won the header. Thats what the referee indicated and he was right, it was a foul.
Puncheon should've scored that chance from three yards anyway. Any sort of decent connection and it would've been a goal. He wasn't switched on enough to turn it in.
The Positives:
A tremendous performance in centre midfield from Schniederlin and Davis.
A good first half where we should've gone in at half time at least 2-0 up.
We actually got a point when we were 2-1 down with only a few minutes remaining.
Gazza has potential.
The Negatives:
We conceeded two more soft goals. We are so fragile at the back, if things don't tighten up then we will go down.
Lallana put in 100% effort but tired hugely in the last 30 minutes. Defensively he can't be relied on to track back.
Lambert looked sluggish and also tired quickly. He does have the ability to play in the hole, where Adkins played him yesterday, but he is a better target man than J-Rod.
Adkins tactics were questionable. It almost seems as though he has to play J-Rod to justify his transfer fee. Even though Mayuka and his pace might've been a better option playing off of Lambert as the target man.
Puncheon isn't good enough. Neither is Guly.
Our inability to hold on to a lead is probably effecting the players mentaility, like it did the year we went down, and the panic that sets in might be a regular occurance now.
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slynch added 14:31 - Oct 8
I can't see what Spiderman does, except the odd dodgy tackle and a good pass to someone standing near him. The team needs more strength than he Lallana and Fox have.
I suggest the following:

Gazza
chaplow font yosh hoo clyne
ram davis guly punch
lambo
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trotsky added 15:07 - Oct 8
When you're struggling defensively, the last thing you need is to see chance after chance wasted by your attackers: it puts the team under enormous pressure.

I'd struggle to recall seeing a side as bad as Fulham at St Mary's during our years outside of the top division: they were woeful in the first half. I guess it was unfortunate that Richardson's injury happened so early as we couldn't be sure then how utterly ineffective their left winger was going to be before we upset the back four and reversed our first choice pairing of centre halves.

Given how poor Fulham were, this was probably the most suitable game to play 4-3-3 in, and had we done so with Ramirez available, we would probably have seen a repeat of the Villa massacre in that first half.

However poor substitution followed poor substitution. Lucky NA still has much credit in the bank. I hope he spends much of the next two weeks on fitness training.

The most dispiriting match so far.
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les5tar added 17:23 - Oct 8
Well I thought that Yoshida was carrying an injury in the 2nd half. He seemed very slow and was always being turned inside out. Hoverman was just too slow and Punceon seemed to drop off in effectiveness as the game wore on. The passing in the first half was good but there was little penetration as the game went on. Lambo was OK but J Rodz was not very effective either. Only Steve Davis and gazza brilliant save were the only plus points. Its going to be hard slog from now on. We need reinforcements at the back asap. I was surprised that we didn't put on Ben Reeves and Mayuka to add a bit of pace. I shudder to think what Gareth Bale will do to that defence
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Fordy added 20:31 - Oct 8
Thought we played well in the first half but subs handed initiative to Fulham. Baird and Riise aren't the quickest so why not put some pace on up front?

I'm not a Guly hater but I honestly can't remember the last time he scored or provided an assist, it must be nearly a year ago.
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geezershoong added 22:33 - Oct 8
Having seen the replay in slow-mo on MOTD2, there were 2 fouls. JP also backed into the keeper & trod on his foot, preventing him from moving as the corner was waiting to be taken.
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scummerlou added 10:12 - Oct 9
Disappointing end to a game that we should have taken all 3 pts. We should have had the game put away by half time, but seemed to struggle when Fulham put us under pressure in the second half.
IMO, could understand RC coming on to give MY more cover, looked like MY was carrying a knock. But would have thought BR would have been a better switch for SRL, to allow AL to come inside and give DF cover, with both goals coming from an overload down our left side.
Also, I am sure that Clattenburg disallowed the JP goal for SRL climbing all over the Fulham guy at the back post, MotD didnt show the ref, but Clattenberg seemed to gesture that...
Positives - MS and SD in the middle of the park, JF seems to have stepped up his game since MY arrival, and the chances created in the first half....
COYR
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sidsaint added 23:57 - Oct 9
Thought Fulham were poor and 3 points were there for the taking. I was surprised to see Yoshida moved to right back where he was all at sea and obviously uncomfortable and unsure as when to overlap etc. Reeves should have been given his chance otherwise why put him on the bench. This showed that we have no strength in depth in our defence as we have been mentioning all season.
If we are now to be without Ramirez for 6 weeks we may not pick up many of the few points that the next 5 games offer. I felt very concerned when leaving St Mary's on Sunday.
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