| Own worst enemy?? 13:02 - Sep 10 with 7678 views | borodale4 |
Not that I am anywhere near a Coleman out opinion I just dont feel the guy is helping himself. This is modern era football and no matter what people's opinions are you cant deny sports science and training methods have evolved, however, not seemingly in JC's head. His training sessions are archaic, though admittedly, enjoyed by the majority of players. The club has no full time sports scientist, that makes us the only professional football club in the country to not do this. All teams need a triangle of management; players, management and support staff (eg, strength and conditioning coaches, physios, nutrionalists). If any of these are not up to the required standards success becomes very hard to achieve. In my opinion we are at least failing on the support staff side.
I am aware I posted this as a respose to an ealier post, just fancied seeing people's opinions. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Own worst enemy?? on 14:02 - Sep 10 with 6318 views | Sandyman |
Agreed, and it does make you wonder what role Joe Hinnigan has in the backroom and what he is doing back at the club - his previous spell with Graham Barrow wasn't exactly 'scientific' in its execution or reputation, was it? Surely someone less old school and more savvy with modern sports science would be better use of a wage. I only ask because I don't know - JH might be doing a job of vital importance, but what is it? |  | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 14:37 - Sep 10 with 6259 views | The_DJ |
| Own worst enemy?? on 14:02 - Sep 10 by Sandyman |
Agreed, and it does make you wonder what role Joe Hinnigan has in the backroom and what he is doing back at the club - his previous spell with Graham Barrow wasn't exactly 'scientific' in its execution or reputation, was it? Surely someone less old school and more savvy with modern sports science would be better use of a wage. I only ask because I don't know - JH might be doing a job of vital importance, but what is it? |
Sponge 'person' |  | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 17:25 - Sep 10 with 6123 views | YouTubeDale |
When asked at the Fans' Forum whether he believed in sports science, JC answered that he did especially the nutritional side of things which is still practised at the club. He added that unfortunately there is no budget for a sports scientist this year. It does seem, on the face of it, that we are found wanting in terms of our energy levels- hence the importance of sports science. CD needs to find the money for this, even if it is part-time.
Somebody mentioned that the team did cross country in Austria. Hillcroft emphasised time and time again that all training should involve the use of the ball where possible. Surely, this helps them with basic ball skills like erm...simple passing.
At Chesterfield we were wasteful with our passes - especially Cavanagh. Listening to the Torquay game we had the same problem. And against Burton, well...
But we have at least got to keep up with our competitors in the fitness side of the game - we can't fall behind.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Own worst enemy?? on 17:50 - Sep 10 with 6068 views | ColDale |
has Cavanagh always been a central midfielder? I was always under the impression he was predominantly a right back before he came here. That said, I thought he looked very good in that role against Barnsley and Chesterfield, but not so against Torquay and Burton. |  | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 18:31 - Sep 10 with 6005 views | maccawozzagod |
| Own worst enemy?? on 17:50 - Sep 10 by ColDale |
has Cavanagh always been a central midfielder? I was always under the impression he was predominantly a right back before he came here. That said, I thought he looked very good in that role against Barnsley and Chesterfield, but not so against Torquay and Burton. |
quote Borodale4
The club has no full time sports scientist, that makes us the only professional football club in the country to not do this
neither do Stanley, neither do quite a few other teams I would imagine, have you checked all 92 club sites?
I know quite a few of your fans keep mentioning things like this, do you all place a lot of importance on it or not? My opinion on these things are that you may get an extra 1-5% out of a player but its really an elite player type of thing, much like an F1 team trying to shave that extra tenth of a second off.
At this level there are so many inconsistencies and shiteness from the players (thats why they're here not championship/premiership) that the minimal differences wouldn't effect much. Maybe all the gippo types should be made to shave their heads as the extra weight will slow them down? [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Own worst enemy?? on 18:34 - Sep 10 with 5986 views | maccawozzagod |
errm dunno why I quoted the Cavanagh thing in my previous post ....
but yes he was a right back for 299 games at Accrington | | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:34 - Sep 10 with 5941 views | bilbobaggins |
| Own worst enemy?? on 18:34 - Sep 10 by maccawozzagod |
errm dunno why I quoted the Cavanagh thing in my previous post ....
but yes he was a right back for 299 games at Accrington |
sports science you can not beat pies and chips from the wilbutts chippy and a kick about in denehurst park after that its just a case of kick our opponents and hang on like they do to us when most teams come up here .they run us down early and try to demorolise us we should take a leaf out of there books and play round them for the first 20 mins the go for broke |  | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:40 - Sep 10 with 5934 views | TVOS1907 |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:34 - Sep 10 by bilbobaggins |
sports science you can not beat pies and chips from the wilbutts chippy and a kick about in denehurst park after that its just a case of kick our opponents and hang on like they do to us when most teams come up here .they run us down early and try to demorolise us we should take a leaf out of there books and play round them for the first 20 mins the go for broke |
To be fair, how would you know? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 19:46 - Sep 10 with 5923 views | dingdangblue |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:34 - Sep 10 by bilbobaggins |
sports science you can not beat pies and chips from the wilbutts chippy and a kick about in denehurst park after that its just a case of kick our opponents and hang on like they do to us when most teams come up here .they run us down early and try to demorolise us we should take a leaf out of there books and play round them for the first 20 mins the go for broke |
Thats a great point!........apart from the fact 5 teams have been to Spotland already and not one of them has done that? |  |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 19:46 - Sep 10 with 5918 views | bilbobaggins |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:40 - Sep 10 by TVOS1907 |
To be fair, how would you know? |
easy ive been the chippy loads of times and its good food for those winter nights coming up | | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:50 - Sep 10 with 5912 views | TVOS1907 |
| Own worst enemy?? on 19:46 - Sep 10 by bilbobaggins |
easy ive been the chippy loads of times and its good food for those winter nights coming up |
Says it all. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 20:41 - Sep 10 with 5870 views | boromat |
I'm no nutritionist but if the players were on strict nutritional diets would you expect them to be constantly tweeting about Dominos, Carvery Dinners, Nandos..... (thats within the last 24 hours)
Just an observation. | |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 20:44 - Sep 10 with 5862 views | SalwaDale |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:41 - Sep 10 by boromat |
I'm no nutritionist but if the players were on strict nutritional diets would you expect them to be constantly tweeting about Dominos, Carvery Dinners, Nandos..... (thats within the last 24 hours)
Just an observation. |
On that, do you follow ex-players, possibly those we had when Hill was in charge?
Scott Wiseman seemed obsessed with Nandos, as does one of the best rugby players in the world, Sam Tomkins.
Far too easy for us to criticise. |  |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 20:45 - Sep 10 with 5856 views | Ralphs12 |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:41 - Sep 10 by boromat |
I'm no nutritionist but if the players were on strict nutritional diets would you expect them to be constantly tweeting about Dominos, Carvery Dinners, Nandos..... (thats within the last 24 hours)
Just an observation. |
I think quite alot of players have nandos these days, don't think chicken is the worst thing they could be eating.
Although, this is another problem with twitter. Had we been winning this subject wouldn't have ever been brought up (not having a pop at you boromat) but because we haven't been doing great of late, every little thing the players tweet about will be picked up. |  | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:48 - Sep 10 with 5845 views | boromat |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:44 - Sep 10 by SalwaDale |
On that, do you follow ex-players, possibly those we had when Hill was in charge?
Scott Wiseman seemed obsessed with Nandos, as does one of the best rugby players in the world, Sam Tomkins.
Far too easy for us to criticise. |
Yeah like I said just an observation. I just always think if I were a professional footballer I'd treat my body like an temple. Maybe Nandos and Dominos pizzas are part of the diets ;-). | |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 20:53 - Sep 10 with 5835 views | Ralphs12 |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:48 - Sep 10 by boromat |
Yeah like I said just an observation. I just always think if I were a professional footballer I'd treat my body like an temple. Maybe Nandos and Dominos pizzas are part of the diets ;-). |
Haha, yeah I know what you mean. But the odd curry here or there would have to sneak through.
Think Rene Howe used to be partial to the odd nandos.... along with akinfenwa who i believe it is a pre game day ritual | | | |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:59 - Sep 10 with 5824 views | boromat |
Thinking about it aren't Man City forced to eat pizza and have a glass of wine before each match? No wonder Coleman is into the nutritional part of sports science it's just an excuse to eat rubbish ;-) | |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 21:00 - Sep 10 with 5823 views | fitzochris |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:45 - Sep 10 by Ralphs12 |
I think quite alot of players have nandos these days, don't think chicken is the worst thing they could be eating.
Although, this is another problem with twitter. Had we been winning this subject wouldn't have ever been brought up (not having a pop at you boromat) but because we haven't been doing great of late, every little thing the players tweet about will be picked up. |
To be honest, I follow footballers on Twitter to get the odd bit of insight into what's going on at our club and various others. In the main, I reckon 95% of their tweets are uninformative, usually concerning corny proverbs or Jeremy Kyle. |  |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 09:44 - Sep 11 with 5736 views | wimborne_dale |
It begs the question : How come JC did such wonders for Stanley compared with his record at Dale?
As for Macca's point " My opinion on these things are that you may get an extra 1-5% out of a player but its really an elite player type of thing, much like an F1 team trying to shave that extra tenth of a second off. "
Yes but it that 1 - 5% that makes the difference. No sportsman will achieve a 30% improvement overnight but he may make a 1% improvement and with enough determination, be able to repeat the process 30 times. And even a 1% improvement in its own right is worth doing. If Kelly Holes had run 1% slower would we rememebr her name? I think the same principle holds in League 2.
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| Own worst enemy?? on 10:12 - Sep 11 with 5717 views | fitzochris |
| Own worst enemy?? on 09:44 - Sep 11 by wimborne_dale |
It begs the question : How come JC did such wonders for Stanley compared with his record at Dale?
As for Macca's point " My opinion on these things are that you may get an extra 1-5% out of a player but its really an elite player type of thing, much like an F1 team trying to shave that extra tenth of a second off. "
Yes but it that 1 - 5% that makes the difference. No sportsman will achieve a 30% improvement overnight but he may make a 1% improvement and with enough determination, be able to repeat the process 30 times. And even a 1% improvement in its own right is worth doing. If Kelly Holes had run 1% slower would we rememebr her name? I think the same principle holds in League 2.
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"If Kelly Holes had run 1% slower would we rememebr her name?"
You obviously don't!  | |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 10:44 - Sep 11 with 5681 views | nordenblue |
| Own worst enemy?? on 20:59 - Sep 10 by boromat |
Thinking about it aren't Man City forced to eat pizza and have a glass of wine before each match? No wonder Coleman is into the nutritional part of sports science it's just an excuse to eat rubbish ;-) |
Dale used to have pizza delivered to the dressing rooms straight after a game not so long back during the Parkin era,there's far worse things to eat. A friend who used to enter body building comps etc once said if you train hard enough you can eat what the hell you like!! For me people look far too deep into the sports science side of the game and can over complicate a very simple game, as long as the players are as fit as possible i couldn't give a monkeys about training styles etc and how they maintain their fitness,its not relevant.The simple fact is if we where top of the league now nobody would even bat an eyelid about JCs methods,its worked for him all his career so why would he alter it now [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Own worst enemy?? on 11:15 - Sep 11 with 5648 views | fitzochris |
| Own worst enemy?? on 10:44 - Sep 11 by nordenblue |
Dale used to have pizza delivered to the dressing rooms straight after a game not so long back during the Parkin era,there's far worse things to eat. A friend who used to enter body building comps etc once said if you train hard enough you can eat what the hell you like!! For me people look far too deep into the sports science side of the game and can over complicate a very simple game, as long as the players are as fit as possible i couldn't give a monkeys about training styles etc and how they maintain their fitness,its not relevant.The simple fact is if we where top of the league now nobody would even bat an eyelid about JCs methods,its worked for him all his career so why would he alter it now [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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It's a difficult one. I agree with the concept of what you say there - if the players are fit enough, it doesn't matter how they get there.
On the flipside, I look at something like Milan's 'sports lab' and the statistically proven reduction on injuries it has had on their recent sides etc, etc, and can't help but be swayed by the science behind it all.
However, other than a domestic title win a couple of seasons back, Milan have hardly been tearing it up on the trophies front in recent years, have they?
I'm sure that if we were winning, as you say, the training issue wouldn't have been mentioned. It just sticks with me as I remember it being a bit of a problem with certain individuals last season. Having said that, they were hardly responding to Eyre's methods in a positive way...
It's all about the personnel and formation for me. If we get that right, we should be far enough ahead to negate tiring legs later on... or so the theory goes! | |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 11:16 - Sep 11 with 5647 views | 49thseason |
| Own worst enemy?? on 10:44 - Sep 11 by nordenblue |
Dale used to have pizza delivered to the dressing rooms straight after a game not so long back during the Parkin era,there's far worse things to eat. A friend who used to enter body building comps etc once said if you train hard enough you can eat what the hell you like!! For me people look far too deep into the sports science side of the game and can over complicate a very simple game, as long as the players are as fit as possible i couldn't give a monkeys about training styles etc and how they maintain their fitness,its not relevant.The simple fact is if we where top of the league now nobody would even bat an eyelid about JCs methods,its worked for him all his career so why would he alter it now [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Be in no doubt, League two players are bigger, faster, stronger and far better prepared now than they were ten, five, even two years ago. If Rochdale are failing to match our competition in all areas of the game, then we will inevitably fall behind them. Professional athletes now need (and probably expect) a level of preparation that goes far beyond anything John Coleman experienced in his non-league playing days. If he has been unable to sign a sports scientist for financial reasons (or worse didn't want one) then I think he has made a major budgeting error which will show itself in more injuries and lacklustre performances especially during the weeks when we play 3 games in 7 days.
This is no longer a league which allows you to survive by doing things in a half-arsed way it requires a laser-like attention to every detail no matter how small.
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| Own worst enemy?? on 11:45 - Sep 11 with 5624 views | sweetcorn |
In reply to Maccawozzagod, I do put some faith in sports science, its hard not to, when our most successful spell as a club, came under a manager who believed heavily in the sports science part of things.
However boro, i dont think you can really comment on what a player eats, they are allowed to have a treat, they are human beings, not machines. Wayne rooney is one of the best players in the premier league and i'm almost certain he will eat his fair share of burgers, pies and kebabs. |  |
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| Own worst enemy?? on 13:17 - Sep 11 with 5544 views | dalenumber2 |
| Own worst enemy?? on 11:45 - Sep 11 by sweetcorn |
In reply to Maccawozzagod, I do put some faith in sports science, its hard not to, when our most successful spell as a club, came under a manager who believed heavily in the sports science part of things.
However boro, i dont think you can really comment on what a player eats, they are allowed to have a treat, they are human beings, not machines. Wayne rooney is one of the best players in the premier league and i'm almost certain he will eat his fair share of burgers, pies and kebabs. |
... and smoke a few ciggies, surely that must be worse? |  | | |
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