| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 243943 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
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| General Election Thread on 10:35 - May 30 with 1656 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 10:29 - May 30 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Universal Basic Income |
Cheers | |
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| General Election Thread on 10:54 - May 30 with 1582 views | derbyhoop |
Maybe there is a correlation between the numbers not working and the huge waiting lists in NHS. I appreciate that Covid made a lot of people 50+ think they'd had enough of working, so that's 2 factors.
Add in zero hours and/or min wage contracts it's not hard to see the attraction.
I doubt if DWP has the resources to identify many of those who could work but choose not to and claim benefits. In many cases the benefits barely cover subsistence living. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| General Election Thread on 10:56 - May 30 with 1572 views | hubble |
| General Election Thread on 08:53 - May 30 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Isn’t it £120 a week or something?
I don’t think people are living like the Kardashians on £120 a week. |
Not unless you're Bulgarian.... (and you can multiply this many times over for multiple other countries if you want to guess the actual scale of benefit fraud)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/28/bulgarian-town-boomed-from-uks-bigge
"The Bulgarian town that boomed from UK’s biggest benefits fraud"
"Their scheme unravelled when Inspector Vassil Panayotov, a detective based in Sliven, in the foothills of the Balkan mountains, launched an investigation into the sudden influx of cash in his city after noticing properties were being built and residents were wearing designer clothing.
He found that thousands of people, of whom many had never visited Britain, were receiving up to £2,500 a month in benefits from the UK.
He alerted the UK authorities via the British embassy in Sofia and in May 2021 a series of raids were conducted across north London.
The true scale of the fraud is likely to be hundreds of millions of pounds higher than estimated, according to Mr Panayotov." |  |
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| General Election Thread on 11:00 - May 30 with 1548 views | SheffieldHoop |
About 2 years ago when I was still living in my dad's old council flat, one of the neighbors gave me a bunch of advice on how I would go about gaming the system, and it made me realize how many others are at it. People whose culture it is to make themselves a problem for the government, and generally get what they want because of it (within reason of course, don't think anybody is claiming these guys are holidaying in California twice a year) but at the same time they don't have to worry about feeding their kids in a month where the Boiler needs new parts or something.
We tell people that if they can't afford to have kids (Because we need to tax you to pay for other people's kids), don't have kids.....Unfortunately, the only people who listen are the people we really need to be having kids, and the people who don't listen just carry on doing what the fck they want. Hence the kids seem impossible to control atm......most of the people having kids atm are the people the Govt has no control of.
There's also a huge amount of cash in hand work about, the black market is about as prevalent as I've ever known it, to the point that the lines are becoming blurred and crime just happens in open before our eyes and we just accept it, there's loads of money about, it's just a matter of what we choose to spend it on. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 11:05 - May 30 with 1543 views | Gus_iom |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Well, Mone is big news over here, she, and all the others who ripped off tax payers to cash in on covid should be thrown in prison, as far as I'm concerned.
We have a state run water company, and shit is still going directly into the sea.
I heard an interesting interview with an American author who has written a book on the working class experience in America, and she found that in that class there wasn't a huge hatred of billionaires, as they were seen as job creators, among other reasons.
I suppose, where I live, I not only see but also endure the behaviour of little shits who contribute nothing - twice in a week not long ago I went out and confronted people about what they are doing, I'm being avoided now but my van has a nice new scratch.
But yeah, I would love to see a clamp down at both ends of the 'taking the piss' spectrum..
UBI would, in my opinion, take a big step in making work profitable again. My wife is a care worker - what they are paid compared to what they contribute is a disgrace.
UBI would also enable people to take a bit of time out to train up or re-train. My wife recently tried to gain access to a beginners course in computers. She was told she couldn't, because she wasn't unemployed. She fought that, and gained access. Two other people were on the course. Wtaf.
Anyway, I should probably stay clear of this thread now as well! Announce Jordan Rhodes.... |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:06 - May 30 with 1530 views | connell10 |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Agree mate and exactly what the people at the top want. Divide and conquer.....shift the blame , make scapegoats....this shit has gone for years and until it changes the rich will do what they want when the rest of us literally swim in a sea of shite. |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| General Election Thread on 11:11 - May 30 with 1495 views | Northernr |
| General Election Thread on 11:05 - May 30 by Gus_iom |
Well, Mone is big news over here, she, and all the others who ripped off tax payers to cash in on covid should be thrown in prison, as far as I'm concerned.
We have a state run water company, and shit is still going directly into the sea.
I heard an interesting interview with an American author who has written a book on the working class experience in America, and she found that in that class there wasn't a huge hatred of billionaires, as they were seen as job creators, among other reasons.
I suppose, where I live, I not only see but also endure the behaviour of little shits who contribute nothing - twice in a week not long ago I went out and confronted people about what they are doing, I'm being avoided now but my van has a nice new scratch.
But yeah, I would love to see a clamp down at both ends of the 'taking the piss' spectrum..
UBI would, in my opinion, take a big step in making work profitable again. My wife is a care worker - what they are paid compared to what they contribute is a disgrace.
UBI would also enable people to take a bit of time out to train up or re-train. My wife recently tried to gain access to a beginners course in computers. She was told she couldn't, because she wasn't unemployed. She fought that, and gained access. Two other people were on the course. Wtaf.
Anyway, I should probably stay clear of this thread now as well! Announce Jordan Rhodes.... |
Yeh, like I say, absolutely not an 'either or' situation.
I must have seen half a dozen people shop lifting - like literally just picking it up and walking out with it telling the manager to "fck off" on the way - at the Co-op on Goldhawk Road this season alone. And that's just one shop, and I'm in there for 2 minutes once a fortnight, 0943-0945 Saturday home games. And there I am paying for my stuff like a right knobhead.
So I do completely get it. I just wish I felt the same energy on here and in general for cnts like Mone, Owen, Lord Aschcroft, Thames Water etc as I do scroungers tossing it off with a widescreen TV. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:19 - May 30 with 1472 views | Northernr |
You do get my point - You agree something is a problem, but don't think we should talk about it as much as another unrelated problem?
That's exactly it.
What's the bigger problem? I think it's the latter. Just my opinion. | | | |
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| General Election Thread on 11:19 - May 30 with 1465 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Didn't they just complete the new Thames super sewer? That cost billions, have they turned it on yet? Also wouldn't they be pumping the waste out at Beckton? And it flows out to sea from there? Strongly doubt anybody walking along the river in Richmond is going to see a floater
I'm interested to read more about this though, the reading I've done so far implies it's nowhere near as big an issue as you are implying here, but I know echo chambers have that kind of effect which is why it's good to have these threads on here. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 11:30 - May 30 with 1424 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 10:56 - May 30 by hubble |
Not unless you're Bulgarian.... (and you can multiply this many times over for multiple other countries if you want to guess the actual scale of benefit fraud)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/28/bulgarian-town-boomed-from-uks-bigge
"The Bulgarian town that boomed from UK’s biggest benefits fraud"
"Their scheme unravelled when Inspector Vassil Panayotov, a detective based in Sliven, in the foothills of the Balkan mountains, launched an investigation into the sudden influx of cash in his city after noticing properties were being built and residents were wearing designer clothing.
He found that thousands of people, of whom many had never visited Britain, were receiving up to £2,500 a month in benefits from the UK.
He alerted the UK authorities via the British embassy in Sofia and in May 2021 a series of raids were conducted across north London.
The true scale of the fraud is likely to be hundreds of millions of pounds higher than estimated, according to Mr Panayotov." |
Yeah that's horrendous, infuriating, but also illegal.
It's not really a case against the welfare system which I think was the oriinal point being made in as much as a diamond heist is a case against diamonds. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:31 - May 30 with 1418 views | Bluce_Ree |
Man, I've always voted but this time around I don't think I can be arsed. You know what? Whoever gets in, I'll still be in the same house, the same job, paying more or less the same taxes.
There will still be untold dossers not contributing anything to society, there will still be bankers and hedge fund managers and whatever robbing us blind, there will be more crime, more pricks, more of everything bad. There will still be Ed Sheeran, Britain's Got Talent and Liverpool FC. There will still be litter, people getting stabbed and children having their faces eaten by Bully XLs. I'll probably get stabbed in the face by a 17 year old while getting my arms chewed off by a dog called Tyson. F**k it. News boycott. Someone let me know who wins and give me a shout when someone finally assassinates Putin.
Until then all I care about is QPR and the next series of Bake Off. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| General Election Thread on 11:32 - May 30 with 1413 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
I might be wrong but I think about 55% of that figure includes pensions. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 11:38 - May 30 with 2244 views | MedwayR |
Interesting to see how my income tax was spent last year. Top 5 areas of spending:
19.8% - Health
19.6% - Welfare
12% National Debt Interest
10.3% - State Pensions
9.9% - Education
So 12% of income tax goes on paying national debt interest, not paying off the debt, just the interest. More than we pay towards things like education, defence, etc. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 11:39 - May 30 with 2240 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
You are 100% right.
Re the water companies the Lib Dems have made this one of their big policies and is a factor in why I will be voting for them.
The Tory/ covid fraud - amazes me people just shrug about that.
Re the Amazons and non-doms not paying tax - I think the reason there is not public anger is because most people are simply unaware, and those that are don't really know how to protest about it.
The guy in the next door council flat apparently taking the piss out of the benefits system is very visible to people - Amazon and their like shuffling billions of untaxed profit out of our country isn't. Poor people rob poor people not the rich, and poor people complain about other poor people. It was ever thus sadly. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:08 - May 30 with 2152 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Can I just say Clive, that this is the best natured interaction me and you have ever had on LfW.
Long may it continue. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:18 - May 30 with 2114 views | E17hoop |
| General Election Thread on 11:39 - May 30 by Stainrod |
You are 100% right.
Re the water companies the Lib Dems have made this one of their big policies and is a factor in why I will be voting for them.
The Tory/ covid fraud - amazes me people just shrug about that.
Re the Amazons and non-doms not paying tax - I think the reason there is not public anger is because most people are simply unaware, and those that are don't really know how to protest about it.
The guy in the next door council flat apparently taking the piss out of the benefits system is very visible to people - Amazon and their like shuffling billions of untaxed profit out of our country isn't. Poor people rob poor people not the rich, and poor people complain about other poor people. It was ever thus sadly. |
My Mum didn't speak to me for a while after I highlighted I probably paid more tax than the owner of the paper she reads every day, the Daily Mail, because he has non-dom status. |  |
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| General Election Thread on 12:30 - May 30 with 2063 views | Northernr |
Within that figure though do we know the divide between genuine and dodgy claims? If you’re telling me we’re paying the entire £150bn for fit and able ppl to sit on their arse chuffing away on state-bought fags and punching out multiple wnkr kids to terrorise their estate and smash up Foot Locker en masse then I’m right with you.
Of course the figure is growing. You’ve got an ageing population who can’t get GP appointments and have to wait months and years for hospital operations. Again, my personal opinion, a more important issue/problem than scrounging. Though I suppose it’s all linked, as this discussion is proving. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:40 - May 30 with 2001 views | Gus_iom |
I suppose the thing about fraud, though, is you don't know its fraudulent until you uncover it - how lo g did this Bulgarian gang go on for? | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:42 - May 30 with 1992 views | JamesB1979 |
| General Election Thread on 12:30 - May 30 by Northernr |
Within that figure though do we know the divide between genuine and dodgy claims? If you’re telling me we’re paying the entire £150bn for fit and able ppl to sit on their arse chuffing away on state-bought fags and punching out multiple wnkr kids to terrorise their estate and smash up Foot Locker en masse then I’m right with you.
Of course the figure is growing. You’ve got an ageing population who can’t get GP appointments and have to wait months and years for hospital operations. Again, my personal opinion, a more important issue/problem than scrounging. Though I suppose it’s all linked, as this discussion is proving. |
Sorry to jump in and I didn’t want to post any strong opinion on this thread but it’s more the increase in people claiming and the long term sickness. It’s gone up by 800,000 from 2019 to 2.8million. I totally get that there are plenty of people that can’t work and they should be looked after. But 2.8 million people of our work force? It’s systematic of the way we are. It’s always someone else’s fault. Even the work force, it’s all this working from home stuff and this ridiculous claim that it’s much harder life nowadays. Absolute nonsense. Life can be tough but people should just get on with it. The tax dodgers at the top, the lazy self-entitled benefit cheats and it’s the rest of us who has to pay for it all. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 12:58 - May 30 with 1939 views | QPR_Jim |
| General Election Thread on 11:19 - May 30 by SheffieldHoop |
Didn't they just complete the new Thames super sewer? That cost billions, have they turned it on yet? Also wouldn't they be pumping the waste out at Beckton? And it flows out to sea from there? Strongly doubt anybody walking along the river in Richmond is going to see a floater
I'm interested to read more about this though, the reading I've done so far implies it's nowhere near as big an issue as you are implying here, but I know echo chambers have that kind of effect which is why it's good to have these threads on here. |
I think the issues are greater in certain areas. They recently did a survey of the number of discharges per year into rivers and seas from the various water companies and I think the worst was up at 300+, so nearly every day just flowing untreated out into the environment.
It certainly seems to have got worse recently where I am in the South East with regular reports of beaches being shut or swimmers getting sick, beaches losing blue flag status etc. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 13:11 - May 30 with 1895 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 12:58 - May 30 by QPR_Jim |
I think the issues are greater in certain areas. They recently did a survey of the number of discharges per year into rivers and seas from the various water companies and I think the worst was up at 300+, so nearly every day just flowing untreated out into the environment.
It certainly seems to have got worse recently where I am in the South East with regular reports of beaches being shut or swimmers getting sick, beaches losing blue flag status etc. |
Here in Suffolk Anglian water have said they’ll clean up the water but customers have to pay for it despite them paying millions in dividends to their shareholders and not repairing the sewers, the North Sea is unswimmable at the moment. | |
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| General Election Thread on 13:14 - May 30 with 1869 views | SheffieldHoop |
Sorry but a random corporation managing their tax affairs in a way that means they only pay in the Republic of Ireland or something.......is not as egregious as the government forcibly taking money out of my wages every month and carelessly giving it away to people who live in the same block of flats as me but can't be bothered to work - It's just not. I'd much rather my taxes are spent on Defence or R&D investments than benefits for people who cba.
Corps avoiding tax is annoying, but tax is highly complicated, the people who write the laws often end up advising the corporations on how to avoid them anyway, how are we supposed to prevent that? Taxing amazon on products manufactured in China, Shipped via Hong Kong & Netherlands, sold in UK.....not that straight forward. Businesses create jobs, jobs pay salaries, and salaries = PAYE cows to milk. That's the preferred model because it actually works. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 13:17 - May 30 with 1851 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 12:58 - May 30 by QPR_Jim |
I think the issues are greater in certain areas. They recently did a survey of the number of discharges per year into rivers and seas from the various water companies and I think the worst was up at 300+, so nearly every day just flowing untreated out into the environment.
It certainly seems to have got worse recently where I am in the South East with regular reports of beaches being shut or swimmers getting sick, beaches losing blue flag status etc. |
Isn't this also partly a result of us just experiencing the wettest winter on record? Along with a booming population. More people = More sewage. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 13:24 - May 30 with 1809 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| General Election Thread on 12:58 - May 30 by QPR_Jim |
I think the issues are greater in certain areas. They recently did a survey of the number of discharges per year into rivers and seas from the various water companies and I think the worst was up at 300+, so nearly every day just flowing untreated out into the environment.
It certainly seems to have got worse recently where I am in the South East with regular reports of beaches being shut or swimmers getting sick, beaches losing blue flag status etc. |
Thames Super Sewer won't help Windemere!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/16/sewage-dumps-windermere-data [Post edited 30 May 13:24]
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