| Ukraine V England 17:33 - Sep 9 with 7182 views | QPRSteve |
74% possession and 1-0 down. Useless so far. [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 17:35]
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| Ukraine V England on 19:15 - Sep 9 with 2010 views | connell10 |
| Ukraine V England on 19:09 - Sep 9 by HAYESBOY |
Southgate just annoys the sht out of me.
He made statements early in his England manager career about players have to be playing for their clubs to be considered and then proceeds to pick players not playing.
He constantly makes changes to not lose games instead of trying to win them.
This evening a prime example. Bellingham off. Saka off to bring Gallagher on. Henderson stays on.
Don't get it. |
I'd have Eze in the team always , I'd build a team around Eze. But I'm biased  |  |
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| Ukraine V England on 19:18 - Sep 9 with 1990 views | Boston |
| Ukraine V England on 19:10 - Sep 9 by connell10 |
I just woke up from my siesta and missed the game. |
You, and most of the first team squad. | |
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| Ukraine V England on 19:21 - Sep 9 with 1990 views | daveB |
| Ukraine V England on 19:06 - Sep 9 by Northernr |
So I'm so club over country it's ridiculous, England is basically like the Cyclades - it's something I can do every other summer while waiting for QPR to start again. I want them to win, but I'm done with it 2 mins after full time. A lot of my mates, and my brother now, go home and away with England.
My experience of them in recent years has been sitting listening to my brother and Simmo moan throughout the 90 minutes about how terrible it is, how awful the team selection is, what an idiot Southgate is, and then we win. His record is beyond reproach, by anybody bar Alf Ramsey. He probably knows more about this than us.
The big thing I have liked about his approach is it's more of a club environment, where the same squad is back all the time. It's really hard to break into, but also it's hard to get dropped from. People are made to earn their place, but also people who have gone through that journey before are trusted and faith is kept with them through drops in form. It's exactly what Germany and Spain did when they were cleaning up while we were fannying about picking whatever vaguely in form midtable player was flavour of the month in The Sun that month. It solves all the problems of a disparate squad driving itself crazy at tournements like we saw particularly under Capello in South Africa.
I also like his firm 'no dickheads' policy. Again, this has worked for national squads in other sports, particularly the All Blacks. You'd rather a good player who toes the line, than a brilliant one who doesn't. Southgate was waaaaay ahead of the curve in bombing out Mason Greenwood for behaving like a horny, privileged little dickhead in the hotel up in Finland. He's never been involved since, and hopefully never will be again.
But I feel like he's becoming obstinate and stubborn now, to the point that he's contradicting himself.
Some players are being left out for football reasons because of their "form" (Raheem Sterling). Fine, in theory. But others are being picked who've literally been out of form for years (Maguire). Henderson is in his 30s, not playing well, now playing in a pub league, and gets picked - tonight he gets picked in attacking midfield, when you've got Foden, and you've got Eze who's literally the form player in the entire country in that position.
On non football reasons, Henderson has sold his soul to the Kingdom of Executing All The Gay People. He shouldn't be involved because he's not at the level, nor playing at the level, required. But he also shouldn't be involved because you can't pitch yourself as this all inclusive, representative, holier than thou England set up that takes the knee and gives it back to the racists and bigots (too fcking right), but then also park all of that for a favourite who sold out.
It should be made clear to anybody that goes there - that's fine, you do you, but you're not getting picked for England again, because football wise the level is a joke, and non-football wise the whole thing is disgusting.
That sort of contradiction, one rule for one and one for another, is lethal in team environments - sport or work.
His selection and subs tonight were stubborn and obstinate. And I'm his biggest fan, and like I say his record is beyond reporach. But Henderson gets 90 mins in attacking midfield, while Eze sits on the bench? Not for me Clive.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
devils advocate he's faced a game tonight which is probably the toughest away one left, lose and still work to do to qualify so went with experience and despite a poor performance (relatively compared to the last 4) we didn't lose and never really looked like losing so are pretty much qualified now if Italy beat Ukraine in the week
The Maguire thing has become a bit of a joke now, he really needs to at least try someone else but he's one of those who rarely has a bad game for England so can see why he picked him tonight with Stones and Shaw both out even though I personally wouldn't have.
I don't think many would have expected likes of Bellingham and Saka to be so poor, Maddison as well who has been brilliant for Spurs this year. Do think England always look worse when Shaw isn't playing, offers real balance on the left and much better player than Chillwell.
The Henderson thing it's a real problem because if you say I'm not picking you because you took the Saudi money you have to say the same to any Newcastle players and do we then look at not picking players paid for by qatar money who also ban homosexuality. Bang goes all the Man City players. It's also a religious belief so do you also not pick any muslim players because they do not accept being gay?
Southgate imo did the right thing but I'd be looking to phase him out of the squad before the Euros more due to us having better options than where he plays his football [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 19:23]
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| Ukraine V England on 19:29 - Sep 9 with 1956 views | Northernr |
| Ukraine V England on 19:21 - Sep 9 by daveB |
devils advocate he's faced a game tonight which is probably the toughest away one left, lose and still work to do to qualify so went with experience and despite a poor performance (relatively compared to the last 4) we didn't lose and never really looked like losing so are pretty much qualified now if Italy beat Ukraine in the week
The Maguire thing has become a bit of a joke now, he really needs to at least try someone else but he's one of those who rarely has a bad game for England so can see why he picked him tonight with Stones and Shaw both out even though I personally wouldn't have.
I don't think many would have expected likes of Bellingham and Saka to be so poor, Maddison as well who has been brilliant for Spurs this year. Do think England always look worse when Shaw isn't playing, offers real balance on the left and much better player than Chillwell.
The Henderson thing it's a real problem because if you say I'm not picking you because you took the Saudi money you have to say the same to any Newcastle players and do we then look at not picking players paid for by qatar money who also ban homosexuality. Bang goes all the Man City players. It's also a religious belief so do you also not pick any muslim players because they do not accept being gay?
Southgate imo did the right thing but I'd be looking to phase him out of the squad before the Euros more due to us having better options than where he plays his football [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 19:23]
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Well I'm on your side, and his side, on the majority of stuff. But as you say yourself, this Maguire thing is getting silly now. And Henderson is 33 and playing in a pub league, he shouldn't be involved even before you get into the politics. He's doubling down and down and becoming stubborn and obstinate. It happens to a lot of mangers late in a long reign - we saw it with Holloway here first time around. |  | | |
| Ukraine V England on 19:33 - Sep 9 with 1936 views | distortR |
| Ukraine V England on 19:21 - Sep 9 by daveB |
devils advocate he's faced a game tonight which is probably the toughest away one left, lose and still work to do to qualify so went with experience and despite a poor performance (relatively compared to the last 4) we didn't lose and never really looked like losing so are pretty much qualified now if Italy beat Ukraine in the week
The Maguire thing has become a bit of a joke now, he really needs to at least try someone else but he's one of those who rarely has a bad game for England so can see why he picked him tonight with Stones and Shaw both out even though I personally wouldn't have.
I don't think many would have expected likes of Bellingham and Saka to be so poor, Maddison as well who has been brilliant for Spurs this year. Do think England always look worse when Shaw isn't playing, offers real balance on the left and much better player than Chillwell.
The Henderson thing it's a real problem because if you say I'm not picking you because you took the Saudi money you have to say the same to any Newcastle players and do we then look at not picking players paid for by qatar money who also ban homosexuality. Bang goes all the Man City players. It's also a religious belief so do you also not pick any muslim players because they do not accept being gay?
Southgate imo did the right thing but I'd be looking to phase him out of the squad before the Euros more due to us having better options than where he plays his football [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 19:23]
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Yeah, my point earlier about Henderson was 'purely in footballing terms'. As you say, when you bring politics, beliefs into it, you make a rod for your own back. Which Southgate and Henderson have done, in many ways.
We live in such a polarised society, I think it's best to keep politics out of sport, where at all possible. [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 19:56]
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| Ukraine V England on 19:35 - Sep 9 with 1918 views | Northernr |
| Ukraine V England on 19:33 - Sep 9 by distortR |
Yeah, my point earlier about Henderson was 'purely in footballing terms'. As you say, when you bring politics, beliefs into it, you make a rod for your own back. Which Southgate and Henderson have done, in many ways.
We live in such a polarised society, I think it's best to keep politics out of sport, where at all possible. [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 19:56]
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Ok, take all of that out of it - he's a 33 year old playing in a pub league. | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 19:40 - Sep 9 with 1883 views | Arty |
Southgate stating post match that we didn't have enough creativity in the final third! WTF, he's the TW4T who picked the team.
How Maguire, Henderson and Phillips are anywhere near an England squad is beyond me | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 19:41 - Sep 9 with 1879 views | distortR |
| Ukraine V England on 19:35 - Sep 9 by Northernr |
Ok, take all of that out of it - he's a 33 year old playing in a pub league. |
I agree mate, that was my original point. | | | |
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| Ukraine V England on 19:45 - Sep 9 with 1861 views | distortR |
| Ukraine V England on 19:41 - Sep 9 by distortR |
I agree mate, that was my original point. |
And with the keeping politics out of sport line, I actually had this website partly in mind. I love political debate, but the polarisation has just made it too toxic. | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 20:20 - Sep 9 with 1775 views | daveB |
| Ukraine V England on 19:29 - Sep 9 by Northernr |
Well I'm on your side, and his side, on the majority of stuff. But as you say yourself, this Maguire thing is getting silly now. And Henderson is 33 and playing in a pub league, he shouldn't be involved even before you get into the politics. He's doubling down and down and becoming stubborn and obstinate. It happens to a lot of mangers late in a long reign - we saw it with Holloway here first time around. |
I wouldn't have started him either, would have gone with Rashford and played Maddison in the middle but can see the thinking behind it going with experience for tonight.
if he starts in the friendly on tuesday then I won't be offering any sort of defence for him | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 21:00 - Sep 9 with 1678 views | paulparker |
| Ukraine V England on 19:21 - Sep 9 by daveB |
devils advocate he's faced a game tonight which is probably the toughest away one left, lose and still work to do to qualify so went with experience and despite a poor performance (relatively compared to the last 4) we didn't lose and never really looked like losing so are pretty much qualified now if Italy beat Ukraine in the week
The Maguire thing has become a bit of a joke now, he really needs to at least try someone else but he's one of those who rarely has a bad game for England so can see why he picked him tonight with Stones and Shaw both out even though I personally wouldn't have.
I don't think many would have expected likes of Bellingham and Saka to be so poor, Maddison as well who has been brilliant for Spurs this year. Do think England always look worse when Shaw isn't playing, offers real balance on the left and much better player than Chillwell.
The Henderson thing it's a real problem because if you say I'm not picking you because you took the Saudi money you have to say the same to any Newcastle players and do we then look at not picking players paid for by qatar money who also ban homosexuality. Bang goes all the Man City players. It's also a religious belief so do you also not pick any muslim players because they do not accept being gay?
Southgate imo did the right thing but I'd be looking to phase him out of the squad before the Euros more due to us having better options than where he plays his football [Post edited 9 Sep 2023 19:23]
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Ukraine were terrible Dave , there was nothing to fear from them at all
They were there for the taking but Southgate has to go into every game trying to nick a 1-0
It sums it up that his family talked him into another tournament rather than the FA laying down terms , he bottled that France game like he does the other big games
I cannot get my head around Maddison instead of Foden |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Ukraine V England on 21:56 - Sep 9 with 1610 views | connell10 |
| Ukraine V England on 21:00 - Sep 9 by paulparker |
Ukraine were terrible Dave , there was nothing to fear from them at all
They were there for the taking but Southgate has to go into every game trying to nick a 1-0
It sums it up that his family talked him into another tournament rather than the FA laying down terms , he bottled that France game like he does the other big games
I cannot get my head around Maddison instead of Foden |
If that's true mate I can't see Eze getting to much game time, to risky for Southgate. | |
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| Ukraine V England on 22:50 - Sep 9 with 1545 views | thame_hoops |
Italy drawing with North Macedonia has done us a huge favour |  | | |
| Ukraine V England on 23:01 - Sep 9 with 1533 views | loftupper |
| Ukraine V England on 21:00 - Sep 9 by paulparker |
Ukraine were terrible Dave , there was nothing to fear from them at all
They were there for the taking but Southgate has to go into every game trying to nick a 1-0
It sums it up that his family talked him into another tournament rather than the FA laying down terms , he bottled that France game like he does the other big games
I cannot get my head around Maddison instead of Foden |
Honest question here, is there anything you would give Southgate credit for? Getting to finals and semifinals is better than I have seen an England team do for 30 years. Maybe he wasn’t (isn’t) bold enough, maybe he just stuck to what got them to those semi finals and finals in the place.
It might be that I mistake your opinions for statements of fact because of the way you write. | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 23:30 - Sep 9 with 1483 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Have you noticed when England (rarely) loses or draws, no quarter is given to Southgate but when they win all the extenuating circumstances and litany of conditions are given. |  | | |
| Ukraine V England on 23:34 - Sep 9 with 1456 views | paulparker |
| Ukraine V England on 23:01 - Sep 9 by loftupper |
Honest question here, is there anything you would give Southgate credit for? Getting to finals and semifinals is better than I have seen an England team do for 30 years. Maybe he wasn’t (isn’t) bold enough, maybe he just stuck to what got them to those semi finals and finals in the place.
It might be that I mistake your opinions for statements of fact because of the way you write. |
Southgate has the best England squad in years and every big game he bottles it
We are still p1ss about with Maguire who never plays and Henderson who is in semi retirement
His treatment of Foden is a disgrace imo , if he was French, Brazilian, Italian then they would be building a team around him but slothgate has no fcuking idea what to do with him | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Ukraine V England on 08:19 - Sep 10 with 1249 views | gazza1 |
Of course Southgate has done good things in his time.....he has been there long enough. Credit to him in the early days getting the squad together as a team. That is where it ends I'm afraid. Could & Should have won big international trophies but failed due to his poor decisions from team selection, team tactics, substitutions, penalty takers and it goes on. He is so limited, just like he was when he was a player.
Throughout his reign we have played pretty poorly in many of the matches but won because of the quality of the squad.....we have a lot of 'proper' decent players but because of Southgate we fail to win tournaments that matter.
Never seen England play away from home but fair play to those patriotic supporters who follow England home and away.....I know a few and they generally enjoy it big time.
And btw the performance last night was very poor indeed against a pretty below par Ukraine team. | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 08:31 - Sep 10 with 1228 views | daveB |
| Ukraine V England on 21:00 - Sep 9 by paulparker |
Ukraine were terrible Dave , there was nothing to fear from them at all
They were there for the taking but Southgate has to go into every game trying to nick a 1-0
It sums it up that his family talked him into another tournament rather than the FA laying down terms , he bottled that France game like he does the other big games
I cannot get my head around Maddison instead of Foden |
I don't think thats fair he rarely plays for a 1-0, number of times England have by 3 or 4 under him is a lot more than a 1-0. Ukraine were dangerous on the break and well organised, thought they played well and we were well below our best.
There is a real myth around international football than if teams go for it they will win things, there is a reason Germany always did well and its because they are so pragmatic in how they play | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 08:32 - Sep 10 with 1217 views | hubble |
I find it hard to make a clear judgement on Southgate, because on paper his achievements are hard to argue with, but at the same time he irritates the fck out of me and, like Gazza and others have said, his poor decisions in key games have probably cost us titles.
The other obvious consideration is: who would you replace him with? I'd heard that after he left the old scummers, Tuchel was interested in the job and he's someone I think could have taken this extremely talented crop of young players to the very pinnacle. But who else could do it? You're never going to get an elite manager, so it would be either taking a punt on someone up and coming again, or..... well, who? |  |
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| Ukraine V England on 08:40 - Sep 10 with 1202 views | daveB |
| Ukraine V England on 23:34 - Sep 9 by paulparker |
Southgate has the best England squad in years and every big game he bottles it
We are still p1ss about with Maguire who never plays and Henderson who is in semi retirement
His treatment of Foden is a disgrace imo , if he was French, Brazilian, Italian then they would be building a team around him but slothgate has no fcuking idea what to do with him |
You can't build a team around one player, surely we've learnt this as England fans by now, only time we've done well is when we've created a team as we have the last few years
Brazil built a team around Neymar, how did that work out for them?
Foden is very good but rarely plays for Man City, is only in now due to injuries. Saka is a better option on the right, Sterling, Grealish and Rashford have been better on the left and he's not played in the middle enough for City to be a real option yet | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 08:41 - Sep 10 with 1199 views | daveB |
| Ukraine V England on 08:32 - Sep 10 by hubble |
I find it hard to make a clear judgement on Southgate, because on paper his achievements are hard to argue with, but at the same time he irritates the fck out of me and, like Gazza and others have said, his poor decisions in key games have probably cost us titles.
The other obvious consideration is: who would you replace him with? I'd heard that after he left the old scummers, Tuchel was interested in the job and he's someone I think could have taken this extremely talented crop of young players to the very pinnacle. But who else could do it? You're never going to get an elite manager, so it would be either taking a punt on someone up and coming again, or..... well, who? |
When he goes it will be Steve Cooper or Eddie Howe | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 09:28 - Sep 10 with 1120 views | gazza1 |
| Ukraine V England on 08:40 - Sep 10 by daveB |
You can't build a team around one player, surely we've learnt this as England fans by now, only time we've done well is when we've created a team as we have the last few years
Brazil built a team around Neymar, how did that work out for them?
Foden is very good but rarely plays for Man City, is only in now due to injuries. Saka is a better option on the right, Sterling, Grealish and Rashford have been better on the left and he's not played in the middle enough for City to be a real option yet |
I agree you cannot build a team around one player Dave but some of Southgate's team selections have been so bad and so wrong Dave......how he leaves players like Grealish, who plays frequently for the best club team in the world on the bench, etc, etc I do not know. It isn't just Grealish either. Why is he picking players who cannot get into their club sides?? I just do not understand his thinking. | | | |
| Ukraine V England on 09:49 - Sep 10 with 1087 views | paulparker |
| Ukraine V England on 08:40 - Sep 10 by daveB |
You can't build a team around one player, surely we've learnt this as England fans by now, only time we've done well is when we've created a team as we have the last few years
Brazil built a team around Neymar, how did that work out for them?
Foden is very good but rarely plays for Man City, is only in now due to injuries. Saka is a better option on the right, Sterling, Grealish and Rashford have been better on the left and he's not played in the middle enough for City to be a real option yet |
Foden is a generational talent that comes around once every 20 years but Southgate would rather plod on with Henderson who is slower than a constipated Sh1t
I’d love to know the reasoning for the sub of Saka for Gallagher , if that’s not playing for a point then I’m a Dutchman | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Ukraine V England on 11:41 - Sep 10 with 993 views | BostonR |
Southgate is just suffering what every England manager has since 1970 - no balls! Apart from Venable in 96 who went for it all Eng managers are dull, risk-adverse and lacking balls.
He had a perfect opportunity to make history against Croatia (SF), Italy (F) and France (QF) and bottled it.
In all three of those games if he had been bold and gone on the front foot against what were ageing teams in Croatia and Italy he changes history.
His football approach was perfectly summed up in that dirge against Ukraine yesterday. H e should never have been allowed another shot when the FA gave him three perfect opportunities. |  | | |
| Ukraine V England on 12:29 - Sep 10 with 930 views | denhamhoop2 |
| Ukraine V England on 19:35 - Sep 9 by Northernr |
Ok, take all of that out of it - he's a 33 year old playing in a pub league. |
Not only that it's hardly like he was Bobby Charlton or Gazza in his pomp is he, he was and is a water carrier every club in the country has someone who could do his job more or less the same and even more mad to pick him when you have a younger better version of him in Rice. The whole moral argument doesn't come into my thinking as basically anyone who plays for a top club their owners will have some sort of skeleton in their closet. You don't get obscenely rich whilst having a clean slate morally. Southgate has done a fantastic job for England turning around the whole ethos spirit from club cliques and mystery injuries if the player doesn't fancy the trip or opposition and where we lost to a f*****g Sunday morning team complete with noisy sideline support and big lads playing for long throws to Euros finals and World Cup defeats because your star striker doesn't square the ball in the semi for Sterling to tap in for 2 nil job done in Semi and putting a penalty over the bar in Quarter Finals. He reminds me quite a bit now of Sir Alf and his dog days of picking Bobby Moore on his last legs and pairing him with his younger self Norman Hunter was a disaster in the making | | | |
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