| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate 09:57 - Aug 23 with 14934 views | MAK |
On Saturday, for what was a fairly insignificant reason, in the first half of the match I needed the assistance of a Taurus steward. I waited until half time and went down to chat to the steward manning the Sandy/Wilbutts corner gate.
Unfortunately I made the stupid assumption that this steward, as he's looking after a main access point/emergency exit, would be of such a high standing that he'd easily sort out my minor problem. How wrong was I.
After I'd asked for him help, he looked at me in such a blank way, it was if one of us had just landed from Mars. This chap could neither understand nor speak a word of English. That's right, the steward Taurus has chosen to man an exit that hundreds of fans would have to pass through in an emergency, couldn't speak or understand English. If, God forbid, someone had a heart attack or similar at that end of the stand, he's the steward you're going to run to for help. The 30 seconds lost in trying explain to him what's going on could be the difference between life and death.
This isn't a dig at the stewards, it's a question why Taurus management would choose to put a particular steward in that particular role. He didn't even carry a radio. The nearest radio carrying Taurean could be found near the kiosk. Imagine if there was an emergency, trying to relay messages to the far end of the Sandy stand when the only radios are at the opposite end.
It's likely that those radio carriers are free to roam so this might not be an accurate portrayal of most of the match. However, it still doesn't look good. Thankfully my minor issue was sorted perfectly well at the end of the game.
While I'm at it, can anybody explain why that corner gate is now always shut? I know it's a couple of years since it was always open at the end of the match but it was so handy. I can understand if there's a huge away following and the powers that be see it as a possible place for trouble to flare up, but with 70 travelling fans last Saturday, surely it's time to consider occasionally opening it up again. |  | | |  |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 11:05 - Aug 23 with 9776 views | EllDale |
It is unfortunate but some of the Taurus stewards do only have basic English.
Travelling to a game last season a long queue formed at the 468 bus stop in Rochdale Bus Station caused by one of the stewards (who obviously lived out of town) being unable to explain to the bus driver where he wanted to go to.
When I tried to help we eventually worked out that the one word which he kept repeating turned out to be "stadium" but it was only because he was wearing a Taurus tabard that I put two and two together.
I doubt if he would have been able to communicate adequately whilst working at the match if there had been a medical emergency. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 11:14 - Aug 23 with 9757 views | DorkingDale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 11:05 - Aug 23 by EllDale |
It is unfortunate but some of the Taurus stewards do only have basic English.
Travelling to a game last season a long queue formed at the 468 bus stop in Rochdale Bus Station caused by one of the stewards (who obviously lived out of town) being unable to explain to the bus driver where he wanted to go to.
When I tried to help we eventually worked out that the one word which he kept repeating turned out to be "stadium" but it was only because he was wearing a Taurus tabard that I put two and two together.
I doubt if he would have been able to communicate adequately whilst working at the match if there had been a medical emergency. |
Seen it time & time again with security firms down south. Queen's Platinum Jubilee & prior to funeral last year there were hundreds of stewards in Green Park & on The Mall, none of whom could understand basic English & had no training in the routes around the area. Absolutely impossible to get any sense of the them when requesting information. Likewise around here when we've had big cycling events - they just ship coach loads of them in from London & they have zero knowledge of the area or routes. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 13:22 - Aug 23 with 9526 views | ChaffRAFC |
I happen to agree with your point about that exit needing to be re-opened.
The stadium manager closed it a couple of years ago and the board said that was his decision and his job to make that decision which is fair enough I guess but it was useful for a few reasons, one being, we have a fair few families at that end of the ground with young kids and it's just easier with prams and toddlers to have less distance to travel to get out of a crowd.
Not only that, but there have been a few instances of crowd trouble, nothing major or anything but a few pockets of trouble on Sandy Lane behind that stand and having to come out of the main gate and turn left means we were having to walk through it rather than being able to get out ahead of it.
Don't get me wrong, if a club are going to bring a big away following then I completely get it, but there won't be many teams that bring anything close to that this season making it unnecessary to have that exit closed. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 13:31 - Aug 23 with 9485 views | 49thseason |
Unfortunately the stewards seem to be yet another box-ticking exercise rather than a serious effort to ensure a safe environment inside and around the Stadium. You wonder how much use they would be in the event of a major incident. You also wonder what the safety certificate on the ground has to say about non-english speaking stewards, and what the attitude of the Club's insurance company might be. |  | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 13:56 - Aug 23 with 9424 views | EllDale |
It makes you wonder how the contract reads with Taurus that I believe was agreed by a former CEO who has subsequently been seen enjoying their hospitality?
Did it just stipulate that a certain number of stewards had to be supplied for each section of the ground for every game full stop or did it go into depth regarding any necessary qualifications and competence?
I notice that some of them wear the sort of arm bands that you see worn by doormen which I presume indicates some sort of first aid proficiency. [Post edited 23 Aug 2023 13:56]
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 13:59 - Aug 23 with 9411 views | pioneer |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 11:14 - Aug 23 by DorkingDale |
Seen it time & time again with security firms down south. Queen's Platinum Jubilee & prior to funeral last year there were hundreds of stewards in Green Park & on The Mall, none of whom could understand basic English & had no training in the routes around the area. Absolutely impossible to get any sense of the them when requesting information. Likewise around here when we've had big cycling events - they just ship coach loads of them in from London & they have zero knowledge of the area or routes. |
but they are willing to work for next to nothing and thats all that counts in 2023 britain. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 14:56 - Aug 23 with 9310 views | Rodingdale |
A real opportunity to innovate - army of volunteer fans - provide season tickets and training to volunteer fans to be stewards. Saves money, builds community in the ground. Arsenal do it but of course the board aren’t interested. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 14:58 - Aug 23 with 9308 views | EllDale |
The problem there may be that fans want to watch the game?
Stewarding guidelines state that they should have their back to the action scanning the crowd. | | | |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 15:05 - Aug 23 with 9295 views | D_Alien |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 14:58 - Aug 23 by EllDale |
The problem there may be that fans want to watch the game?
Stewarding guidelines state that they should have their back to the action scanning the crowd. |
There's also a danger should any drink/drugged-up hoolie fall foul of local volunteers and shout "i know where you live" and actually mean it |  |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 15:12 - Aug 23 with 9268 views | Sandyman |
There have been a few threads about the poor stewarding provided by Taurus since they got the job, and their association with public enemy number one.
As alluded to in the OP, you just can't have confidence in the Taurus lot when it matters, in our parts of the ground and especially when a larger, more boisterous away support turn up when Taurus have been hopeless at best.
RAFC used to run their own stewarding which was of a much better standard than that we have now. Time for a serious rethink before something happens that threatens the ground safety certificate. |  | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 15:29 - Aug 23 with 9251 views | TalkingSutty |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 14:56 - Aug 23 by Rodingdale |
A real opportunity to innovate - army of volunteer fans - provide season tickets and training to volunteer fans to be stewards. Saves money, builds community in the ground. Arsenal do it but of course the board aren’t interested. |
In all fairness the board and the Chairman are looking to sell the club to investors. You can understand why they wouldn't be interested in this, when they aren't interested in running the club full stop. You can't knock them for it, they have been very upfront about their intentions. The Chairman and a Director are willing to inject money into the club over the next few months and then after that we could be looking at liquidation if a investor isn't found..that's what the Chairman has told the shareholders and the fans. To suddenly expect them to run the club with one eye on the future and put plans in place going forward, embracing the fan base etc, is not understanding the message that they sent out only a matter of weeks ago, that's why they called a EGM. They want out and they want their money back, volunteer army's are the last thing on their minds. It's a concept that was put to them last season remember. If we ever do end up with new owners, it might be something they will rally around but that will be dependent on what type of owners they are. [Post edited 23 Aug 2023 15:35]
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 15:32 - Aug 23 with 9237 views | EllDale |
The bottom line, literally, is that it's cheaper to outsource.
You need to be able to offer stewards regular work and you probably can't do that in a league where one side of the ground is effectively mothballed apart from perhaps six times a year.
Just out of interest do Taurus work at Hornets' home games? | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 16:12 - Aug 23 with 9124 views | Dalenet |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 15:32 - Aug 23 by EllDale |
The bottom line, literally, is that it's cheaper to outsource.
You need to be able to offer stewards regular work and you probably can't do that in a league where one side of the ground is effectively mothballed apart from perhaps six times a year.
Just out of interest do Taurus work at Hornets' home games? |
They only have 2 or 3 stewards at Hornets - a car park steward and turnstiles. I don't recall seeing any in the stand when I was at a game a few weeks ago. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 16:18 - Aug 23 with 9096 views | Rodingdale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 15:29 - Aug 23 by TalkingSutty |
In all fairness the board and the Chairman are looking to sell the club to investors. You can understand why they wouldn't be interested in this, when they aren't interested in running the club full stop. You can't knock them for it, they have been very upfront about their intentions. The Chairman and a Director are willing to inject money into the club over the next few months and then after that we could be looking at liquidation if a investor isn't found..that's what the Chairman has told the shareholders and the fans. To suddenly expect them to run the club with one eye on the future and put plans in place going forward, embracing the fan base etc, is not understanding the message that they sent out only a matter of weeks ago, that's why they called a EGM. They want out and they want their money back, volunteer army's are the last thing on their minds. It's a concept that was put to them last season remember. If we ever do end up with new owners, it might be something they will rally around but that will be dependent on what type of owners they are. [Post edited 23 Aug 2023 15:35]
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Obvious fly in the ointment- what if we don’t get a buyer? | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 16:19 - Aug 23 with 9084 views | 442Dale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 13:59 - Aug 23 by pioneer |
but they are willing to work for next to nothing and thats all that counts in 2023 britain. |
The pertinent issues brought up aside, they’ll be getting minimum wage at least like anyone else. |  |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:42 - Aug 23 with 8959 views | TalkingSutty |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 16:18 - Aug 23 by Rodingdale |
Obvious fly in the ointment- what if we don’t get a buyer? |
If we don't get a buyer then the Chairman mentioned the possibility of liquidation..he should know the forecast better than anybody else, including the fans. He didn't mention an alternative plan. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:49 - Aug 23 with 8921 views | Rodingdale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:42 - Aug 23 by TalkingSutty |
If we don't get a buyer then the Chairman mentioned the possibility of liquidation..he should know the forecast better than anybody else, including the fans. He didn't mention an alternative plan. |
Oh dear. That’s a worry. Maybe we should have a plan B. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:56 - Aug 23 with 8914 views | D_Alien |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:49 - Aug 23 by Rodingdale |
Oh dear. That’s a worry. Maybe we should have a plan B. |
This has been mooted a number of times
From what i can gather, there doesn't seem to be either the financial wherewithal among the fanbase or appetite for it (perhaps the latter due to the former) | |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 18:03 - Aug 23 with 8885 views | 442Dale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:56 - Aug 23 by D_Alien |
This has been mooted a number of times
From what i can gather, there doesn't seem to be either the financial wherewithal among the fanbase or appetite for it (perhaps the latter due to the former) |
Hopefully the latter can be acted upon. Waiting and seeing with no contingency planning would reflect badly on anyone who could make a difference, no matter how small and even if it’s not financial. | |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 19:29 - Aug 23 with 8748 views | TalkingSutty |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 18:03 - Aug 23 by 442Dale |
Hopefully the latter can be acted upon. Waiting and seeing with no contingency planning would reflect badly on anyone who could make a difference, no matter how small and even if it’s not financial. |
It's not easy to see the wood for the trees and difficult to try to formulate any sort of plans when nobody seems to know the full financial state of the club. The finances seem to have fallen off the edge of a cliff over the last 18 months or so. It's certainly not something that the Supporters Trust can be expected to sort out on their own ( formulating a plan). It needs input from everybody connected with the club and I include the current Chairman and Directors in that, after all they collectively purport to be dyed in the wool Dale fans. We come back to that word communication again though and some struggle with it. Maybe we might strike lucky and a credible investor turns up, i hope so because otherwise the MH fight and the money invested by the Chairman and Directors to buy back their shares will have been for nothing. [Post edited 23 Aug 2023 19:33]
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 19:39 - Aug 23 with 8692 views | 49thseason |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 17:56 - Aug 23 by D_Alien |
This has been mooted a number of times
From what i can gather, there doesn't seem to be either the financial wherewithal among the fanbase or appetite for it (perhaps the latter due to the former) |
The fans have not been given a good enough reason for investing in the club since the threat of MH went away. By comparison, Bolton fans raised over £3m when a Bond was offered that paid a return on the investment. There is more than one way to skin a cat and asking fans to keep investing in shares with no prospect of a return may not be the best way. Offering a 5% return on a £1000 + over 3 years via a Bond might be a better solution. Personally I take the Boards lack of public panic as a good sign that a buyer is on the horizon, but maybe not until January and a new US financial year. Its only a hunch and I have no tangible reasoning for it but I do think they would have turned up the volume on the " for sale" shouts if they didnt have a sniff of a buyer. | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 19:49 - Aug 23 with 8666 views | 442Dale |
The Trust, their members and supporters can only look to make the most of opportunities to establish what can be done in various scenarios, including best and worst case, and what that means today, tomorrow and the future in terms of achievable actions.
It’s basic contingency planning that can be added to/amended in reaction to possible events.
At least then we will all know what’s in place rather that hastily manoeuvring when something happens. Looking at the efforts over recent months, there’s certainly a willingness amongst supporters to help with this.
We really can’t keep meandering on the basis that we don’t really know what the situation is at the club, nor carry on waiting for follow up from those at Spotland on previous hard work that has taken place. | |
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| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 20:50 - Aug 23 with 8559 views | Rodingdale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 19:49 - Aug 23 by 442Dale |
The Trust, their members and supporters can only look to make the most of opportunities to establish what can be done in various scenarios, including best and worst case, and what that means today, tomorrow and the future in terms of achievable actions.
It’s basic contingency planning that can be added to/amended in reaction to possible events.
At least then we will all know what’s in place rather that hastily manoeuvring when something happens. Looking at the efforts over recent months, there’s certainly a willingness amongst supporters to help with this.
We really can’t keep meandering on the basis that we don’t really know what the situation is at the club, nor carry on waiting for follow up from those at Spotland on previous hard work that has taken place. |
I agree. But we are meandering. Time for more a more, progressive approach from the Trust??
The problem is we want to avoid decisiveness (very bury) but at the same time the leadership of the current trust simply acquiesces to the board - a silent Murray at the forum says it all.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” | | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 20:51 - Aug 23 with 8559 views | windowsbug2002 |
Taurus security are the reason I no longer go to Spotland.
Continually being searched whilst my wife wasn't and when you complain you get accused of being racist. |  | | |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 20:54 - Aug 23 with 8537 views | 442Dale |
| Taurus and the Sandy/Wilbutts gate on 20:50 - Aug 23 by Rodingdale |
I agree. But we are meandering. Time for more a more, progressive approach from the Trust??
The problem is we want to avoid decisiveness (very bury) but at the same time the leadership of the current trust simply acquiesces to the board - a silent Murray at the forum says it all.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” |
The Trust do a lot of fine work. They also need the input and assistance of their members and all Dale supporters.
This happened four months ago. Things have now changed. Defined approaches need to be established.
There’s a meeting on Friday at 5.45pm. A time for all good people to attend. | |
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