| Warburton, Stick or twist? 19:06 - Apr 2 with 75405 views | RangersDave |
Ok, so we arent doing as well as most of us thought we would.
However, we all know we should have had a new striker in during the last window, but didnt and this appears it might have been a mistake.
If form continues the way it is, Stoke etc will beat us, and we will be almost where we were last season......ergo no real improvement, and a squad thats fat, old, lazy, or comtractually obliged to play every game.
However, next season will need more players, as some will be leaving us, so who do you want to pick those players and next seasons formations?
So, do we keep Warburton (Stick) or do we get rid (twist)
I will start this........ Twist |  |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:17 - Apr 4 with 2877 views | A40Bosh |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:48 - Apr 4 by DieByYourSide |
Interesting timing.
Gives Warburton effectively 7 games to re-interview for his job, show he's still got the mettle and hunger for it and can get a tune out of this (depleted) group. Much as people claim they'd have bitten your hand off to even be in with a shout of the playoffs...the playoffs was the remit. If we don't get that, then the season has ultimately been a failure - couple that with the alarming drop off in form/ideas/some very concerning performances and you can see why we might make a change.
This revelation about his contract changes things, it's no longer sacking him but just changing course.
Could see an argument for Eustace - the succession option, already known to the players but can freshen things up, clearly rated and possibly given assurances he might get the main job given he turned down Swansea in the Summer.
Then there are names like Jokanovic, Farke, Wagner all with proven promotion pedigree, but are we an attractive enough proposition for them, could we put together the financial package for them and transfers? Maybe given we already have the nucleus of a good squad but names like these would be pushing the boat out a bit more.
Or of course Warburton could use this to rally himself and the players, put together some results and get us into the Top 6 - unlikely but still not impossible. [Post edited 4 Apr 2022 12:49]
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Whilst I cannot agree with much of what you have written, mainly because I think that his hunger and mettle don't need questioning, I think it will simply come down to money and how desperate the owners are to get us back in the Premier League for the big Sky pay day and how immediate their need/wish is to reduce much of the losses they continue to bankroll, especially during the last couple of pandemic affected years.
Since he has been here Warbs, albeit working with Les and Lee Hoos and the wider management and coaching staff, has brought improvements across a number of different areas up until the wheels came off of performances and results after Christmas. Season on season final place finish improvement, style of football, bringing through youth players, bringing in new young players from other clubs and up until recently a feel good factor which extended to the actual 1st team performance and results and not just the QPR in the Community work elements. All this whilst bringing QPR back in line financially with the rules.
Now, if at the start of the season, when he was openly talking about the minimum expectation being to "push on" and aim for the playoffs, this was based on his performance management with the board telling him he had to get us up, then if that is his only performance management goal for this season, then he may way "part company" with the club at the end of this season. If the owners do have the patience to see that generally the on the pitch progress has been steady and generally in the right direction, then they may give him another year. |  |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:20 - Apr 4 with 2840 views | Myke |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:04 - Apr 4 by TheChef |
Was playoffs the remit though?
I'd have thought it would be to improve on 9th place from last season (and if that is Top 6, then great). |
i think play-off became the remit once we pushed the boat out to sign all of last years loanees. I guess nobody could have foreseen that only Field would work out - and even he missed the first 3rd. Very disappointed in Chaz and Steph this season - smacks of Park and Rio and seriously hinders our progress. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:38 - Apr 4 with 2752 views | BklynRanger |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:23 - Apr 4 by TacticalR |
I don't think any decision should be made on the basis of the rest of this season's results.
I thought after the Peteborough game when it was announced that Willock was out for the rest of the season that with all the injuries and off-form players we needed to forget about the play-offs and plan for next season. |
Same here. We've gone from over-achieving to underachieving, but the idea of scrapping it all and trying to get someone else in on the assumption that they will again over-achieve, but better, just doesn't add up to me. Not at this stage in our journey anyway.
DaveB voices a couple of issues above that do seem to have very subtly come up in recent weeks, but that should be the kind of thing that is discussed at the end of the season over the new contract. If those discussions reveal a wider gap that can't be resolved then fair enough. ( I'd also like to know why he's stuck so steadfastly to 3 CBs in games and situations when it wasn't needed and in fact counter-productive - but WTF do I literally know? )
Magic wand talk like this at this moment just seems to me to be beneath us. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:40 - Apr 4 with 2748 views | vanrrrr |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 14:20 - Apr 4 by Myke |
i think play-off became the remit once we pushed the boat out to sign all of last years loanees. I guess nobody could have foreseen that only Field would work out - and even he missed the first 3rd. Very disappointed in Chaz and Steph this season - smacks of Park and Rio and seriously hinders our progress. |
Blimey that is harsh on Chaz and Stef! Most clubs who will make playoffs pushed out much bigger boats so that needs to be factored in
for me it is not even the playoffs but a loss of focus on what we are . MW seems to have gotten away from developing our young players -not playing Amos and Thomas, looking at loans rather than bringing in next good young prospect… maybe got distracted by shiny lights of prem
Get to summer and refocus on building the best club we can for attracting and developing young players- best chance of making playoffs as we cannot outspend bigger clubs , as well as having a sustainable model- that would be what I would tell MW over the summer and hive him a 2 year deal to carry on | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:05 - Apr 4 with 2703 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 10:29 - Apr 4 by daveB |
Oh Blimey I thought he signed a 3 year deal. He won't be here next year then unless we see an upturn in results pretty soon |
Isn't this the same as Barbet not offered a new contract shocker?!
How can club offer/MW accept a new contract not knowing what division we will be in.
If he improves on 9th, think it would be daft to let him go IMHO. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:07 - Apr 4 with 2695 views | robith |
Does anyone err remember what it was like before Warbs came?
In the years since we came down before Warbs, we averaged 16th. Season finishes today and his average finish is 10th.
In those seasons we averaged 54 goals per season. Take this incomplete season as a whole and he averages 59.
How the season is ending is super disappointing, and there are quite a few legitimate criticisms of Warburton that I'd agree with. We'd certainly need to think about what will be different next year so we can sustain a challenge.
But people are acting like he's come into a successful team and bodged it, rather than being a key architect of a sustained improvement over multiple seasons? And it's making me lose my mind? |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:10 - Apr 4 with 2691 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:07 - Apr 4 by robith |
Does anyone err remember what it was like before Warbs came?
In the years since we came down before Warbs, we averaged 16th. Season finishes today and his average finish is 10th.
In those seasons we averaged 54 goals per season. Take this incomplete season as a whole and he averages 59.
How the season is ending is super disappointing, and there are quite a few legitimate criticisms of Warburton that I'd agree with. We'd certainly need to think about what will be different next year so we can sustain a challenge.
But people are acting like he's come into a successful team and bodged it, rather than being a key architect of a sustained improvement over multiple seasons? And it's making me lose my mind? |
Yep! | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:13 - Apr 4 with 2681 views | BklynRanger |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:05 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Isn't this the same as Barbet not offered a new contract shocker?!
How can club offer/MW accept a new contract not knowing what division we will be in.
If he improves on 9th, think it would be daft to let him go IMHO. |
Think those are two different things though PP:
Barbet may not sign a new contract because of this apparent desire he has to go back to France.
Whereas the line about Warbs is he may not be offered one if we aren't shown to have made progress and/or nosedive for the rest of the season.
As far as I know there would be nothing to stop the club deciding that, despite the situation, Warburton has done enough to be allowed to know where he'll be next season, if he want to be here. Bordering on the naive by me in this day and age but it could be done. | | | |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:17 - Apr 4 with 2675 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:13 - Apr 4 by BklynRanger |
Think those are two different things though PP:
Barbet may not sign a new contract because of this apparent desire he has to go back to France.
Whereas the line about Warbs is he may not be offered one if we aren't shown to have made progress and/or nosedive for the rest of the season.
As far as I know there would be nothing to stop the club deciding that, despite the situation, Warburton has done enough to be allowed to know where he'll be next season, if he want to be here. Bordering on the naive by me in this day and age but it could be done. |
Not quite the same I agree, but Les did say NO player out of contract would be spoken to until the end of the season, so not unreasonable to apply that logic to the manager? | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:18 - Apr 4 with 2669 views | DieByYourSide |
Maybe hunger was the wrong word, but think we do need to see some evidence that he hasn't run out of ideas in the seven games we have left.
Like I said the news about the contract changes the equation. It's now not a question of 'getting rid' of him, but whether we shake hands at the end of a successful three years and go in a different direction. | |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:25 - Apr 4 with 2630 views | BklynRanger |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:17 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Not quite the same I agree, but Les did say NO player out of contract would be spoken to until the end of the season, so not unreasonable to apply that logic to the manager? |
Not unreasonable at all no, but if the players are also wondering it might help to introduce a bit of stability into things. Or not, who knows any more. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:44 - Apr 4 with 2566 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:25 - Apr 4 by BklynRanger |
Not unreasonable at all no, but if the players are also wondering it might help to introduce a bit of stability into things. Or not, who knows any more. |
Yes I agree with that, as I said its never quite the same with manager contracts as players. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:44 - Apr 4 with 2565 views | daveB |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:05 - Apr 4 by PinnerPaul |
Isn't this the same as Barbet not offered a new contract shocker?!
How can club offer/MW accept a new contract not knowing what division we will be in.
If he improves on 9th, think it would be daft to let him go IMHO. |
It's slightly different for the manager imo, I think given the way the results are going I'd be surprised if he got a new deal unless we see an upturn in the next few weeks.
Of course if he improves on last season he will probably stay but that not going to be easy without Deing, Willock and now possibly Johansen as well. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:47 - Apr 4 with 2546 views | daveB |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 12:23 - Apr 4 by TacticalR |
I don't think any decision should be made on the basis of the rest of this season's results.
I thought after the Peteborough game when it was announced that Willock was out for the rest of the season that with all the injuries and off-form players we needed to forget about the play-offs and plan for next season. |
I think you plan for next season in the summer. I want and hope the team go out and try and win as many points as possible then see where that leaves us. Surely you stand a better chance of the playoffs when you are 3 points off with 7 games to go than you do at the start of a season when all on 0 points. Even if we fall short the experience of pushing for them would stand them in good stead for next season | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:03 - Apr 4 with 2474 views | queensparker |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 15:07 - Apr 4 by robith |
Does anyone err remember what it was like before Warbs came?
In the years since we came down before Warbs, we averaged 16th. Season finishes today and his average finish is 10th.
In those seasons we averaged 54 goals per season. Take this incomplete season as a whole and he averages 59.
How the season is ending is super disappointing, and there are quite a few legitimate criticisms of Warburton that I'd agree with. We'd certainly need to think about what will be different next year so we can sustain a challenge.
But people are acting like he's come into a successful team and bodged it, rather than being a key architect of a sustained improvement over multiple seasons? And it's making me lose my mind? |
This - a bit of flirtation with the top of the table and our fans are losing their minds. He’s built a proper team (twice) and deserves to learn from his mistakes this season by leading us into next season [Post edited 4 Apr 2022 16:04]
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:16 - Apr 4 with 2406 views | kingsburyR |
Twist if we can get Pep or Klopp in.....otherwise Stick! |  |
| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:25 - Apr 4 with 2363 views | ted_hendrix |
After reading that interview I'd safely say that Warburton will be gone May 7th after the Swansea game which Is a shame.
Our home form/results have done for us. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:33 - Apr 4 with 2330 views | Rangersw12 |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:25 - Apr 4 by ted_hendrix |
After reading that interview I'd safely say that Warburton will be gone May 7th after the Swansea game which Is a shame.
Our home form/results have done for us. |
agree
God knows who we will go for in the summer | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 16:42 - Apr 4 with 2292 views | vanrrrr |
Eustace to take the reins? I always assumed this was proposed to him when Swansea were after him. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 17:52 - Apr 4 with 2188 views | Guppy |
Stick - weren`t we all having this same conversation around November 2020? | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 20:15 - Apr 4 with 1976 views | Dorse |
I have fed all the available data into the Dorse Industries mega computer (Ceefax) and the results are in. It says 'twig'.
I will continue the research. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:38 - Apr 4 with 1806 views | DannytheR |
Just as important is who the manager is next season is whether we go back to what we were led to believe was the whole foundation of the club these days, which is finding and developing younger players and hidden gems to a) ideally get us into the top 6 themselves or b) make us some significant money either way.
Every bit as disappointing as recent results and performances has been us slipping back into bad habits with our recrutiment. First we give a pair old warhorses a classic one last payday, which has backfired massively with Johansen and Austin. Then we go back to stuffing the squad (and starting 11) with disinterested, sub-par loanees from the Premiership. I thought we were done with all that bullsht, and it would be really fascinating to know where the impetus for it was coming from within the club.
Warburton's clearly made a series of big and often baffling mistakes in the last couple of months, and yeah, there's an argument that his whole approach is now a season out of date given how badly we cope with pressing teams and how unfit we often look. But again, that's not going be helped by having a team full of injury-prone 35 year olds and 30 year olds who play like they're 80.
Doesn't matter if it's Warburton in charge or not if we're going to continue to act like a poundshop version of the Redknapp era. |  | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:59 - Apr 4 with 1741 views | davman |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:38 - Apr 4 by DannytheR |
Just as important is who the manager is next season is whether we go back to what we were led to believe was the whole foundation of the club these days, which is finding and developing younger players and hidden gems to a) ideally get us into the top 6 themselves or b) make us some significant money either way.
Every bit as disappointing as recent results and performances has been us slipping back into bad habits with our recrutiment. First we give a pair old warhorses a classic one last payday, which has backfired massively with Johansen and Austin. Then we go back to stuffing the squad (and starting 11) with disinterested, sub-par loanees from the Premiership. I thought we were done with all that bullsht, and it would be really fascinating to know where the impetus for it was coming from within the club.
Warburton's clearly made a series of big and often baffling mistakes in the last couple of months, and yeah, there's an argument that his whole approach is now a season out of date given how badly we cope with pressing teams and how unfit we often look. But again, that's not going be helped by having a team full of injury-prone 35 year olds and 30 year olds who play like they're 80.
Doesn't matter if it's Warburton in charge or not if we're going to continue to act like a poundshop version of the Redknapp era. |
Can't disagree with any of this.
It is always so, so sad when it comes to this. Managers (apart from Venables) are sacked when the team has stopped performing.
He isn't gone yet, but something has not been quite right since the AFCON. Can't figure what that is, but the spark has gone. Austin seemed like a positive spark when he came back last season and it looked like whether he was on the pitch or not, he'd been a catalyst for team spirit, but no. Johansson is undoubtedly a class act, but his spark seems to have gone. Chair, youthful exuberance buzzing around the pitch early season making us tick; now not in the Morocco team and he just doesn't look like he is enjoying himself (which is a positive by the way, because if he was enjoying this shite, I'd worry).
We felt like a youthful team early season, but as Danny says, we feel like a bunch of old farts now, tired, slow, running down time 'til the contract is up.
Saturday wasn't that bad outside of their box, but we did not look like scoring or creating anything as we haven't for a few weeks now.
I thought Warbs needed to stay as it looked like he was building something, but I think that one or two of the walls have fallen down. Can he rebuild?
I hope so, but as I say, when we get to this point, it is so sad because to get here the team must be doing badly. And we are.
Just think a few weeks ago Clive said that the form of the team in 19th would likely get us in to the playoffs. So typical that we surpass tyhat by being 24th in the form table.
And to top it all I had to watch the red n' blue poo to play that way without Eze.
DEPRESSING.  |  |
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| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 22:06 - Apr 4 with 1725 views | Shunter |
Stick !
best season we have had for ages and the future looks good. | | | |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 22:14 - Apr 4 with 1696 views | 1JD |
| Warburton, Stick or twist? on 21:38 - Apr 4 by DannytheR |
Just as important is who the manager is next season is whether we go back to what we were led to believe was the whole foundation of the club these days, which is finding and developing younger players and hidden gems to a) ideally get us into the top 6 themselves or b) make us some significant money either way.
Every bit as disappointing as recent results and performances has been us slipping back into bad habits with our recrutiment. First we give a pair old warhorses a classic one last payday, which has backfired massively with Johansen and Austin. Then we go back to stuffing the squad (and starting 11) with disinterested, sub-par loanees from the Premiership. I thought we were done with all that bullsht, and it would be really fascinating to know where the impetus for it was coming from within the club.
Warburton's clearly made a series of big and often baffling mistakes in the last couple of months, and yeah, there's an argument that his whole approach is now a season out of date given how badly we cope with pressing teams and how unfit we often look. But again, that's not going be helped by having a team full of injury-prone 35 year olds and 30 year olds who play like they're 80.
Doesn't matter if it's Warburton in charge or not if we're going to continue to act like a poundshop version of the Redknapp era. |
Agree Danny, it’s a big concern that we have seemingly gone full circle.
- Ageing pros on huge wages
- 2 and 3 year deals for Austin and Johansen (neither whom I want to see in the squad next year)
- Expensive loan signings on more massive wages, Gray and Hendrick
- A £500k transfer fee on Johansen (which probably would fetch the best young player in league 2)
- £4m wage increase LAST season
- Further £multi-million increase THIS season
All in all it’s a significant deviation from our stated youth strategy - and no prospects are currently being brought through our academy/u23 system.
I guess the question is, how has this been allowed to happen, and who is behind it? | | | |
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