| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning 14:59 - Aug 17 with 6571 views | tkqpr |
Hello Fellow R's
I come to you to seek your knowledge!
I live in a town in rural Lincolnshire, one of our neighbours is an old garage forecourt (4 old pumps) but has his residential house and gardens mainly backing onto my property, but there is a shop area and there is a maitenance workshop also on another boundary to me and some rear yard area also that he bought off another residential neighbour 13 years ago.
I dont hear any noise, you wouldnt know it was there as he shuts (the workshop) at 5pm and the forecourt & shop at 7pm not open Sundays either, and only petrol on Saturdays til 6/7pm, no cooking on site, no enigne noise, absolutely nothing. Albeit it he is an absolute w@nker, as he cuts my conifers (his side) with a chainsaw back to the trunk and refuses to let me on his land to tend to my tree.
Anyway i have recieved proposed redevelement plans through last week and they (BartonWillmore- developers) want to demolish his residential house and gardens and workshop and build a new convenience store and petrol forecourt - 6 pumps, 4,000sqft store, out back and next to my private garden (partly was residential land 13 years prior) a jet wash station, Industrial Vac and Air Compressor station. Also a Plant unit. The new Convenience store is literally going to be right back onto my boundary 1/2m wheresas the existing shop is atleast 20m away and obstructed by his house.
Obviously im not happy, we only bought the property 18 years ago as there was always this residential house inbetween ours and the petrol station. Now they want to demolish it and build a bigger fully commercial outlet right against my boundary!
What do i need to look out for?
Obviously noise pollution will go up, there is no jet wash, air or vac facilities currently and theres proposed are right on my boundary that they propose a 1.8m board fence? Hardly going to keep noise down? Can they do this?
Then theres the smell of the baking that they are bound to do? Any legal requirement to that?
What will go in this 'Plant' station?
looks to be 8 air con units and satetlite dishes also?
Also some of the land was bought off a residential dwelling 13 years ago, can this be turning into commercial just like that?
These are proposals at present and they intend to submit full plans late summer. Do i make contact no and voice my concerns or wait until planning comes?
The other 4 residential neighbours object to this, but i dont want to tell them too much yet as they might use it against me saying they have satisfied my raised concerns??
Anyway, heres hoping for some help and guidance please.
It really is surprising sometimes to see help and advice and from what walks of life us Rangers fans come from.
Thanks in advance
Tim |  | | |  |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 15:06 - Aug 17 with 5802 views | kensalriser |
Two things you can do straight off: check your local authority's website site for their planning guidance and try to work out what you can base your objections on, and enlist the help of a local councillor. |  |
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 15:51 - Aug 17 with 5722 views | Mick_S |
Hello Tim,
We have a planning issue with our newish neighbours as they wish to put a first floor extension on their wrap around ground floor extension. I won’t bore you with the blah, blahs, - we have objected through the council website ( bear in mind all your thoughts will be in the public domain) so firm, but fair, with your concerns.
Still waiting for the outcome due to Covid. My son, who is a bit of a terrier found the email address of our borough’s principal planning officer who I suggest should be your new best mate.
Good luck. He sounds like a right knob.
Ahem : your council, obviously. [Post edited 17 Aug 2021 17:10]
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 17:24 - Aug 17 with 5615 views | Logman |
I work in town planning so may be able to help somewhat (albeit in London and not Lincoln).
Something quite important here is the 'planning unit'. The planning unit is the term for the site and the uses that it comprises.
Essentially, if the house is a separate entity then a residential unit may have to be retained because there is a policy against the loss of any housing in pretty much all the country.
But if the house is ancillary to the petrol station and purely occupied for purposes of running the petrol station then it may not be considered a separate house and it could potentially be replaced by a petrol station associated building.
You need to go onto the Council website and check the history of planning applications for the site.
From the planning history try to glean if the house is a separate dwelling house or if it is occupied solely in relation to the garage/petrol station.
That is my initial advice. |  | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 17:54 - Aug 17 with 5561 views | ted_hendrix |
Being as you're in a rural area I'd imagine there'll be Rural Restrictive covenants involved?
Some of which can date back Years.
These can be a complete pain in the bottom for the developer, I'd imagine you're local council will have this info. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 19:00 - Aug 17 with 5455 views | Sharpy36 |
Start breeding newts and building a colony of bats |  |
| 'You didn't know that was wrong, but now you do. If you do it again, I'll know you are doing it on purpose.' |
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 19:48 - Aug 17 with 5377 views | SimplyNico |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 17:54 - Aug 17 by ted_hendrix |
Being as you're in a rural area I'd imagine there'll be Rural Restrictive covenants involved?
Some of which can date back Years.
These can be a complete pain in the bottom for the developer, I'd imagine you're local council will have this info. |
Gopd point re covenants. It won't be the local authority that has details on restrictive covenants though; it will be your land title. The issue then is whether you have registered or unregistered land (likely the former). Check on the HM Land Registry site for your property - it will cost a couple of pounds to check the title if registered. Covenants typically protect against unreasonable nuisance. If it is unregistered land, ask your mortgage lender (if you have one) for a copy of the title deeds - they will likely charge you for it.
If you can't stop them, consider speaking to the developer to buy you out. Your property and associated land may be worth more to a developer of a unit like that than as a freestanding property. | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 20:08 - Aug 17 with 5347 views | Boston |
If not...see if they'll give you a discount on petrol. | |
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 20:30 - Aug 17 with 5316 views | kernowhoop |
Is there a 'Local Plan' for your area?
If so, go through it and you will find policies and proposals. It is against their policies (including national ones sometimes) that local planning authorities have to make decisions. Almost certainly, you will find some policies that appear to help you.
By the way, did you say eight aircon units? They will make a racket. | | | |
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 20:52 - Aug 17 with 5283 views | tkqpr |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 19:00 - Aug 17 by Sharpy36 |
Start breeding newts and building a colony of bats |
OMG, we do have bats in our garden, but obviously only come out at night but so difficult capture on video, how do i prove this? Would this stand up? | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 20:59 - Aug 17 with 5255 views | tkqpr |
Great information chaps, many thanks.
Ive just come in from hom having a bonfire in his back garden, his wife of 40 years has left him, so im not sure if he is burning her stuff or trying to burn my laurels down???
Anyway, re the Title, can i pay to get a copy of his Title?
I have seen on an old planning application he had to extend the back workshop and the boundary lines went all around the workshop and forecourt and yet excluded the residential house and garden, so im hoping that this may be on 2 deeds? i.e Residential and Commercial? Does it disclose the type on the Title?
The bit of land he bought at the back was residential land (neighbours garden) 13 years ago, so this may have covenants on it? How can i find this out?
MAny thanks chaps again. | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 22:05 - Aug 17 with 5201 views | Logman |
That is encouraging about the house not being included in the previous planning application. It suggests that it is or was a separate house and if he is now trying to include it in a commercial redevelopment then he might be on a sticky wicket.
Regarding the purchase of the residential land which he has changed to a commercial use. It would be interesting to see if that is included in any planning applications because that would need planning permission. But if it was ten years ago then it may have 'deemed planning consent'.
If it is possible, share the address (I realise it may be sensitive) and then when we have a spare moment (which isn't used up speculating about Dickie) we can have a look. | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 08:56 - Aug 18 with 4936 views | tkqpr |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 22:05 - Aug 17 by Logman |
That is encouraging about the house not being included in the previous planning application. It suggests that it is or was a separate house and if he is now trying to include it in a commercial redevelopment then he might be on a sticky wicket.
Regarding the purchase of the residential land which he has changed to a commercial use. It would be interesting to see if that is included in any planning applications because that would need planning permission. But if it was ten years ago then it may have 'deemed planning consent'.
If it is possible, share the address (I realise it may be sensitive) and then when we have a spare moment (which isn't used up speculating about Dickie) we can have a look. |
Appreciate your help Logman its very kind of you.
Richard Dear Ltd, Mountview Garage
17 Lincoln Road, Horncastle, Lincs, LN9 5AW is his business addreess.
However i have seen an old planning notice from 2013 that was an extension to his residential address and that says Viewmount, 17 Lincoln Road, Horncastle LN9 5AW. The area for this is outlined in red and is seperate from the garage itself, although access overlaps?
This also begs the question to what address did the additional residential land at the rear of the garage get added to? The gargage or the Resi? it must have been the garage as its not adjoining the resi property, if indeed they are seperate?
I await your update on a knife edge!!
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| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 10:42 - Aug 18 with 4840 views | Logman |
Hi and no problem.
I've had a quick look at that 2013 app and you are right. The house at 17 Lincoln Road seems to be a house in its own right and not part of the garage.
So, in due course, you may be able to object to the loss of the house.
As Barton Willmore haven't submitted their application yet you don't want to jump the gun but you could drop the previous Planning Officer (I. Carrington) an email (if he still works there) to see if he is aware of any plans for the redevelopment of the site.
Not sure you can object to the acquistion of the land at the back. That seems to be long gone.  | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 11:17 - Aug 18 with 4804 views | QPR_Jim |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 08:56 - Aug 18 by tkqpr |
Appreciate your help Logman its very kind of you.
Richard Dear Ltd, Mountview Garage
17 Lincoln Road, Horncastle, Lincs, LN9 5AW is his business addreess.
However i have seen an old planning notice from 2013 that was an extension to his residential address and that says Viewmount, 17 Lincoln Road, Horncastle LN9 5AW. The area for this is outlined in red and is seperate from the garage itself, although access overlaps?
This also begs the question to what address did the additional residential land at the rear of the garage get added to? The gargage or the Resi? it must have been the garage as its not adjoining the resi property, if indeed they are seperate?
I await your update on a knife edge!!
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I got my partner to snoop around a bit on the land registry map search. The land to the rear of the garage is still under two separate titles which back onto the garage. He must own them under the garage though because it shows the workshop building being over a couple of titles which I don't think is a problem so long as he does own them all.
The residential building is a separate title, so assume his planning application would need to convert this from residential to commercial use. Garage (freehold title number LL121185), 17 Lincoln Road (freehold title number LL121183).
She also noticed that there was a failed planning application for a Tesco in 2010 which was linked to the garage's title information but appears to actually be for the other side of the road. There's a link below to the failed application, it might be worth looking at some of the objections to see if any of them would also be relative to his application.
https://publicaccess.e-lindsey.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?
Hope this is of some use, good luck. |  | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 11:20 - Aug 18 with 4800 views | izlingtonhoop |
Find it difficult to believe that at this stage of the game updating fossil fuel outlets, to increase profits is being considered by anyone.
This may be a line of attack to add to your quiver. |  | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 13:26 - Aug 18 with 4747 views | tkqpr |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 10:42 - Aug 18 by Logman |
Hi and no problem.
I've had a quick look at that 2013 app and you are right. The house at 17 Lincoln Road seems to be a house in its own right and not part of the garage.
So, in due course, you may be able to object to the loss of the house.
As Barton Willmore haven't submitted their application yet you don't want to jump the gun but you could drop the previous Planning Officer (I. Carrington) an email (if he still works there) to see if he is aware of any plans for the redevelopment of the site.
Not sure you can object to the acquistion of the land at the back. That seems to be long gone. |
Thanks Logman,
Just checked the register, I. Carrington is not listed at local or county level.
The outskirst land i.e 400 metres NW of me has a 200/300 new homes developement ongoing, so i can see why a 'convenience store and petrol station might be needed, but to object to the loss of one residential dwelling where there is 300 new ones going up probably isnt going to cut it do you think? | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 13:31 - Aug 18 with 4744 views | tkqpr |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 11:17 - Aug 18 by QPR_Jim |
I got my partner to snoop around a bit on the land registry map search. The land to the rear of the garage is still under two separate titles which back onto the garage. He must own them under the garage though because it shows the workshop building being over a couple of titles which I don't think is a problem so long as he does own them all.
The residential building is a separate title, so assume his planning application would need to convert this from residential to commercial use. Garage (freehold title number LL121185), 17 Lincoln Road (freehold title number LL121183).
She also noticed that there was a failed planning application for a Tesco in 2010 which was linked to the garage's title information but appears to actually be for the other side of the road. There's a link below to the failed application, it might be worth looking at some of the objections to see if any of them would also be relative to his application.
https://publicaccess.e-lindsey.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?
Hope this is of some use, good luck. |
Tremendous work Jim,
Many thanks for this information, i did try and look on Land Registry, but there was a paper form need to fill in to request for the information?? How archaic??
So it is 2 idividual dwellings, one residential and one commercial. Thats good then i hope.
Yes planning was refused opposite for a new Tesco's and it was assumed at the time they would take over this garage forecourt as their petrol 'front'. So i have seen a list of the objections and will note them accordingly should full planning go in. Or should i raise some of these issues now with the developer? I dont want to give them fore warning as such. But want to register my displeasure with redevelopement proposal? | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 14:47 - Aug 18 with 4664 views | Logman |
Yes, you are right. Objecting to the loss of one house per se is unlikely to hold a massive amount of water with the Councillors. But if you add in that its in a residential area, that the new commercial building will have an adverse impact on you in terms of noise, emissions and light then your objection will start to carry some weight.
But that is for a later day.
Did you say that Barton Willmore had sent you some initial plans ? Or how was it that you found out about the proposals ? | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 10:34 - Aug 19 with 4481 views | tkqpr |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 14:47 - Aug 18 by Logman |
Yes, you are right. Objecting to the loss of one house per se is unlikely to hold a massive amount of water with the Councillors. But if you add in that its in a residential area, that the new commercial building will have an adverse impact on you in terms of noise, emissions and light then your objection will start to carry some weight.
But that is for a later day.
Did you say that Barton Willmore had sent you some initial plans ? Or how was it that you found out about the proposals ? |
Hi Logman,
Yes Barton Williams sent through some redevelopement plans,
'to engage with local staekholders and neighboursto ensure that they have the opportunity to review and provide initial feedback on the proposals prior to the submission of any application'
they are asking for my thoughts as aneighbour by the 27th August! | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 15:31 - Aug 19 with 4398 views | Logman |
Without seeing those plans it's difficult to comment fully but I think you should say, as the owner of the immediately neighbouring property, that you are concerned with the loss of the existing family house which is contrary to national and East Lindsey policy regarding the retention of existing housing.
Additionally, the proposed scale and uses on the site, which is surrounded by residential properties, would harm the character and amenity of the residents by way of excessive noise and disturbance, light pollution and increased emissions.
Particular concern is raised with regard to the siting of the new commercial buildings and garage operations immediately alongside the gardens of the neighbouring houses to the detriment of the enjoyment of the gardens. The proposed siting, uses, scale of development and likely hours and days of use would contravene the Council's policies for protecting the character and amenity of residential areas.
There is also the impact on highway conditions but its a bit difficult for me to comment on that without knowing what the access and road is like. | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 17:27 - Aug 19 with 4348 views | JimmyR |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 17:24 - Aug 17 by Logman |
I work in town planning so may be able to help somewhat (albeit in London and not Lincoln).
Something quite important here is the 'planning unit'. The planning unit is the term for the site and the uses that it comprises.
Essentially, if the house is a separate entity then a residential unit may have to be retained because there is a policy against the loss of any housing in pretty much all the country.
But if the house is ancillary to the petrol station and purely occupied for purposes of running the petrol station then it may not be considered a separate house and it could potentially be replaced by a petrol station associated building.
You need to go onto the Council website and check the history of planning applications for the site.
From the planning history try to glean if the house is a separate dwelling house or if it is occupied solely in relation to the garage/petrol station.
That is my initial advice. |
Sorry to hijack this post but i have a planning issue too
I've moved back into my mums house as she has had to go into a home.
The next door neighbours have built an extension that blocks out the light into our house. I have measured it (from the earth) to be about 3.5meters. They have also built installed a large wooden outbuilding at the bottom of the garden. The apex of which is well above 3 meters too, same issue blocking out the sun
I've spent all of about 3 mins googling planning regs as as it is an joining building it is not meant to be more than 3m high. They have also poured a load of concrete into my garden to support a fence post, left screws sticking out of the fence and what looks like 2 live wires into my garden. Oh and installed ridiculously bright light that shines into my garden.
My question is what do i do about it and where to start - Ideally i would want them to move that outbuilding to the other side of their garden and reduce the height of their extension to 3 meters
Should i start with a solicitor? | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 20:35 - Aug 19 with 4261 views | QPR_Jim |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 17:27 - Aug 19 by JimmyR |
Sorry to hijack this post but i have a planning issue too
I've moved back into my mums house as she has had to go into a home.
The next door neighbours have built an extension that blocks out the light into our house. I have measured it (from the earth) to be about 3.5meters. They have also built installed a large wooden outbuilding at the bottom of the garden. The apex of which is well above 3 meters too, same issue blocking out the sun
I've spent all of about 3 mins googling planning regs as as it is an joining building it is not meant to be more than 3m high. They have also poured a load of concrete into my garden to support a fence post, left screws sticking out of the fence and what looks like 2 live wires into my garden. Oh and installed ridiculously bright light that shines into my garden.
My question is what do i do about it and where to start - Ideally i would want them to move that outbuilding to the other side of their garden and reduce the height of their extension to 3 meters
Should i start with a solicitor? |
I don't know for sure but I would guess not to start with a solicitor, possibly talk to them first to try and reach an amicable solution or if you're not comfortable doing that speak to your local planning enforcement department to establish if they have breached any planning regs. | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 21:25 - Aug 19 with 4231 views | Logman |
Again, if you can send the address where the works have been done then I can have a look but if the address is sensitive and you don't want to post it on this public forum then you can p.m. it. | | | |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 11:36 - Aug 20 with 4069 views | JimmyR |
| Neighbouring Garage Redevelopment Proposal - Planning on 21:25 - Aug 19 by Logman |
Again, if you can send the address where the works have been done then I can have a look but if the address is sensitive and you don't want to post it on this public forum then you can p.m. it. |
Many thanks Logman
I have DM'd you the post codes | | | |
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