| Warburton not the problem 18:36 - Dec 12 with 9948 views | T_Block |
Warburton not the issue.
Team created enough to score, but again did not
Team just need time and support .They are all young
Dykes is limited but needs time to develop.
Bright is as good as anyone in this league.but not good enough for premiership.Needs to find consistency to get move he so clearly wants.
Chair -doing well -improving.Carrol played well.Barbet played well
Deserved a draw today.
Players need to support manager .Manager needs to try one or two new players from somewhere.
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| Warburton not the problem on 10:20 - Dec 14 with 1721 views | TheChef |
| Warburton not the problem on 19:59 - Dec 13 by ParkRoyalR |
Santa, went to the game yesterday, first time I have seen Dickie live and was super-impressed.
We know he's not the quickest but moved quick enough yesterday and his positional sense and leadership was superb.
I put Dickie well above a few recent incumbents and think we have a real find here, hope I'm right.
Just need a mobile CDM to sweep up in front of him so he's not forced to rush out like maybe yesterday's goal and leave his man unmarked.
Liked that he just about looked up and applauded fans as was gutted on full-time. He's one who deserves our full support! |
I'd say Dickie is the best defender we've bought for several seasons.
Highlighting any deficiencies he has only highlights what is lacking around him - Dickie is just the first piece in the puzzle, get someone better than Barbet alongside him for a start.
Dieng has been very good, so with him and Dickie we have half of a team spine we can build around. Priority is getting in a dominant central midfielder, and let's hope that Dickie improves too. |  |
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| Warburton not the problem on 11:01 - Dec 14 with 1682 views | Juzzie |
| Warburton not the problem on 01:23 - Dec 13 by FredManRave |
There's no "I" in Queens Park Rangers Football Club. |
technically, there is;
QUEENS PARK RANGERS FOOTBALL & ATHLETIC CLUB,LIMITED,(THE)
Sorry, being a pedant  |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 11:44 - Dec 14 with 1616 views | paulparker |
Can I ask the OP that if Warburton isn’t the problem /issue then who is ? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Warburton not the problem on 13:54 - Dec 14 with 1546 views | PinnerPaul |
| Warburton not the problem on 19:33 - Dec 13 by hantssi |
He hadn’t been “consistently terrible” because he hasn’t been terrible at all, in fact he’s probably the least of our problems. |
Even as an optimist, if Dickie is a 'problem' then we ARE down! | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 17:24 - Dec 14 with 1460 views | StanFan |
I'm as frustrated as anyone about the recent results but I agree with the OP. We're actually playing quite well. We could have/should have won several of the recent games. We created enough chances. So why would we change the manager and completely change the system?
The system isn't our problem. I'd argue that our biggest problem has been not taking our chances when we're on top. |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 18:08 - Dec 14 with 1418 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
Ultimately the problem is a small out-of-date stadium.
= low income.
= small player budget.
= players of limited ability
The way out of that is many years building, developing young players, cashing in on increased values, and repeating. A clear plan, consistency of implementation and staffing.
We are told the club are committed to that.
If that is true they will not be sacking the manager or his senior staff in the face of short term setbacks. If fans buy into that there should be a fair chance of success in the longer term.
Personally I see us as a 13-18th team at present. Exactly where you would expect our club to be on 2019-2020 attendances and performances. We have been going through an unlucky/bad patch during Nov/Dec in part due to a tougher than average schedule. We have scored 18 goals, 16th in the division. Our biggest weakness is at fullback. They are young inexperienced players who will improve. Which, of course, is part of the plan.
Absolutely no reason to panic and undermine the manager.
Less than two weeks ago there was a poll here which had 95 out of 132 voting the manager must stay, 24 decide when the contracts up, 5 undecided and only 8 voting needs to go.
Conclusion
1. There isn't a problem
2. Even if there was Warburton is not it. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 19:05 - Dec 14 with 1362 views | WestonsuperR |
| Warburton not the problem on 17:24 - Dec 14 by StanFan |
I'm as frustrated as anyone about the recent results but I agree with the OP. We're actually playing quite well. We could have/should have won several of the recent games. We created enough chances. So why would we change the manager and completely change the system?
The system isn't our problem. I'd argue that our biggest problem has been not taking our chances when we're on top. |
Completely agree with this, almost incomprehensible that we are discussing a change of Manager considering that in recent matches we have had extended spells when we have outplayed some of the better teams in this division. It was only 5 games ago when we were on a run of 10pts from 5 matches!
Shame that almost any poor run from any team (not just QPR) means the Manager comes under pressure, I’m convinced that in most cases a team would benefit from the stability of a more long term appointment giving the Manager enough time to build a team. |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 19:24 - Dec 14 with 1336 views | QPR_John |
| Warburton not the problem on 18:08 - Dec 14 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
Ultimately the problem is a small out-of-date stadium.
= low income.
= small player budget.
= players of limited ability
The way out of that is many years building, developing young players, cashing in on increased values, and repeating. A clear plan, consistency of implementation and staffing.
We are told the club are committed to that.
If that is true they will not be sacking the manager or his senior staff in the face of short term setbacks. If fans buy into that there should be a fair chance of success in the longer term.
Personally I see us as a 13-18th team at present. Exactly where you would expect our club to be on 2019-2020 attendances and performances. We have been going through an unlucky/bad patch during Nov/Dec in part due to a tougher than average schedule. We have scored 18 goals, 16th in the division. Our biggest weakness is at fullback. They are young inexperienced players who will improve. Which, of course, is part of the plan.
Absolutely no reason to panic and undermine the manager.
Less than two weeks ago there was a poll here which had 95 out of 132 voting the manager must stay, 24 decide when the contracts up, 5 undecided and only 8 voting needs to go.
Conclusion
1. There isn't a problem
2. Even if there was Warburton is not it. |
Whatever the solution 1 point out of 15 means there is a problem | | | |
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| Warburton not the problem on 19:57 - Dec 14 with 1287 views | paulparker |
| Warburton not the problem on 17:24 - Dec 14 by StanFan |
I'm as frustrated as anyone about the recent results but I agree with the OP. We're actually playing quite well. We could have/should have won several of the recent games. We created enough chances. So why would we change the manager and completely change the system?
The system isn't our problem. I'd argue that our biggest problem has been not taking our chances when we're on top. |
We are not playing well that’s why we are getting beat all the time , are we that desperate that we cling on to the odd half hour of decent football here and there ?
Let’s see if Warburton makes some tactical changes tommorow like dropping Bright, starting kelman
And going with a free role for chair because the same old same old isn’t working atm | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Warburton not the problem on 20:06 - Dec 14 with 1287 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Warburton not the problem on 19:57 - Dec 14 by paulparker |
We are not playing well that’s why we are getting beat all the time , are we that desperate that we cling on to the odd half hour of decent football here and there ?
Let’s see if Warburton makes some tactical changes tommorow like dropping Bright, starting kelman
And going with a free role for chair because the same old same old isn’t working atm |
We’re always a substitution, transfer, formation, sacking, or tactical change away from success.
It is a massive, massive 10 year change in circumstances that we need and we are 4 or 5 years into it. It needs a new training ground, a new stadium, and a established and functioning pathway for youngsters to make it to the first team.
Sacking Warburton for Pearson or Bowyer will massively damage the un deniable long term progress we are making and can’t guarantee is success in the short term either.
Is Warburton and our squad flawed? Yes. |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 20:26 - Dec 14 with 1256 views | paulparker |
| Warburton not the problem on 20:06 - Dec 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
We’re always a substitution, transfer, formation, sacking, or tactical change away from success.
It is a massive, massive 10 year change in circumstances that we need and we are 4 or 5 years into it. It needs a new training ground, a new stadium, and a established and functioning pathway for youngsters to make it to the first team.
Sacking Warburton for Pearson or Bowyer will massively damage the un deniable long term progress we are making and can’t guarantee is success in the short term either.
Is Warburton and our squad flawed? Yes. |
The point is Bazza is your looking at a bloke who is out of contract in 5 months , if we are shipping goals and losing games why are we keeping him ? If we go down he isn’t going to be here so then what do we do ?
99.9% of this fan base has been patient and bought into this especially after the fiascos of the Hughes/Redknapp reign of terror , but again we have been let down , poor signings, poor manager appointments, I wouldn’t trust this board to sell our ground and lease another , would you?
For me it’s vital we stay up , because going down will be a disaster especially in this current climate
I’d love Warburton to prove me wrong , I’d love for him tommorow to have the balls and drop BOS and try a new formation if he does that then that’s a start but i can’t see it | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Warburton not the problem on 20:40 - Dec 14 with 1242 views | hantssi |
| Warburton not the problem on 20:26 - Dec 14 by paulparker |
The point is Bazza is your looking at a bloke who is out of contract in 5 months , if we are shipping goals and losing games why are we keeping him ? If we go down he isn’t going to be here so then what do we do ?
99.9% of this fan base has been patient and bought into this especially after the fiascos of the Hughes/Redknapp reign of terror , but again we have been let down , poor signings, poor manager appointments, I wouldn’t trust this board to sell our ground and lease another , would you?
For me it’s vital we stay up , because going down will be a disaster especially in this current climate
I’d love Warburton to prove me wrong , I’d love for him tommorow to have the balls and drop BOS and try a new formation if he does that then that’s a start but i can’t see it |
You could argue that apart from Liverpool, City and perhaps Leicester all clubs have made bad managerial appointments and poor player signings.
We are where we are, we can’t afford to go out and sign this player or that player or change managers mid stream.
As previously asked who would you bring in?
Bowyer was relegated with Charlton, Barton only in his second season and he’s Barton why on earth would we want him or why would he come the way he slated us?
Pearson, can’t see it myself and the rest mentioned are just meh and IMHO no better than what we’ve got. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 22:30 - Dec 14 with 1147 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Warburton not the problem on 19:24 - Dec 14 by QPR_John |
Whatever the solution 1 point out of 15 means there is a problem |
No.
Almost any midtable team goes through spells like this. In the last few seasons we have many of these spells. Three similar spells last season including a 1pt in 5 games.
A few tough matches, below average luck with referee decisions etc and the sheer randomness of Championship football is more than enough to explain the occasional bad run. It only becomes a problem when the team loses confidence and starts to play badly.
Yet the teams performances have been well up to standard. Over the last 8 matches we have better numbers than the opposition on the Expected Goals measure for and against. Average us 1.49 per game, opposition 1.32. Only in two matches did the opposition get the better of us on chances created - Blackburn and Huddersfield. Also in that period we played 4 of the top 7 teams.
There is every reason to stay patient. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:03 - Dec 14 with 1117 views | QPR_John |
| Warburton not the problem on 22:30 - Dec 14 by Spaghetti_Hoops |
No.
Almost any midtable team goes through spells like this. In the last few seasons we have many of these spells. Three similar spells last season including a 1pt in 5 games.
A few tough matches, below average luck with referee decisions etc and the sheer randomness of Championship football is more than enough to explain the occasional bad run. It only becomes a problem when the team loses confidence and starts to play badly.
Yet the teams performances have been well up to standard. Over the last 8 matches we have better numbers than the opposition on the Expected Goals measure for and against. Average us 1.49 per game, opposition 1.32. Only in two matches did the opposition get the better of us on chances created - Blackburn and Huddersfield. Also in that period we played 4 of the top 7 teams.
There is every reason to stay patient. |
"Over the last 8 matches we have better numbers than the opposition on the Expected Goals measure for and against. Average us 1.49 per game, opposition 1.32."
Unfortunately games are not decided on expected goals. If you look at actual goals the figures are us 1 per game, opposition 1.75 | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:11 - Dec 14 with 1109 views | SydneyRs |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:03 - Dec 14 by QPR_John |
"Over the last 8 matches we have better numbers than the opposition on the Expected Goals measure for and against. Average us 1.49 per game, opposition 1.32."
Unfortunately games are not decided on expected goals. If you look at actual goals the figures are us 1 per game, opposition 1.75 |
The point being made is we are not playing terribly. Sorry we can't just go and drop 10 mill on a better striker. Also the loss of Amos long term is a big blow just as he was coming good.
Wall only got a point due to a lucky deflection. Another deflection gifted Bristol City a goal after we had been murdering them. Brentford should have been down to 10 men before half time when we played there. We hit the post and Reading score with very similar shots. We haven't had any luck recently and things could be very different if we had. Huddersfield was the only game where were were totally outplayed.
Luck generally evens out over a season and we're due more than a bit. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:18 - Dec 14 with 1099 views | QPR_John |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:11 - Dec 14 by SydneyRs |
The point being made is we are not playing terribly. Sorry we can't just go and drop 10 mill on a better striker. Also the loss of Amos long term is a big blow just as he was coming good.
Wall only got a point due to a lucky deflection. Another deflection gifted Bristol City a goal after we had been murdering them. Brentford should have been down to 10 men before half time when we played there. We hit the post and Reading score with very similar shots. We haven't had any luck recently and things could be very different if we had. Huddersfield was the only game where were were totally outplayed.
Luck generally evens out over a season and we're due more than a bit. |
You could argue that losing while not playing terribly is a situation more difficult to correct. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:28 - Dec 14 with 1079 views | SydneyRs |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:18 - Dec 14 by QPR_John |
You could argue that losing while not playing terribly is a situation more difficult to correct. |
You could, in which case accept relegation as a near certainty. Even if you are right, I don't see how a new manager with no money would make any difference.
I prefer to be more optimistic. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 08:03 - Dec 15 with 960 views | stevec |
We can’t blame bad luck, that’s ludicrous.
As virtually everybody agreed, MW put out his best team last week, he did. But when I look down it I know it’s not good enough. And when I look at the bench I know there’s nothing there that’ll change anything for the better.
Whatever MWs done since he’s been here we only have 4 pros who any other manager would want in his team.
We’re in a dreadful league this year and we’re peering over our shoulder how Rotherham and Coventry are doing. It’s not acceptable. |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 09:29 - Dec 15 with 884 views | Spaghetti_Hoops |
| Warburton not the problem on 23:18 - Dec 14 by QPR_John |
You could argue that losing while not playing terribly is a situation more difficult to correct. |
You clearly struggle with the randomness of football results. Referee decisions, deflections, once in a blue moon shots from distance....... Mid-div in the Championship is almost as random as tossing a coin. A 50/50 chance. Toss a coin and you will sometimes get runs of heads and runs of tails even though the chances of each are 50%. The opposition are as good as you, trying equally hard, are equally well managed and coached means sometimes spells of drawing, spells of winning or spells of losing.
If your process is as good as their's, which Expected Goals is intended to measure, then the explanation for a poor run of results is likely to be nothing more than randomness.
That people get so hot under the collar about it and come up with all sorts of explanations, many irrational, helps make professional football the No.1 spectator sport it is. | | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 09:39 - Dec 15 with 868 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Warburton not the problem on 20:26 - Dec 14 by paulparker |
The point is Bazza is your looking at a bloke who is out of contract in 5 months , if we are shipping goals and losing games why are we keeping him ? If we go down he isn’t going to be here so then what do we do ?
99.9% of this fan base has been patient and bought into this especially after the fiascos of the Hughes/Redknapp reign of terror , but again we have been let down , poor signings, poor manager appointments, I wouldn’t trust this board to sell our ground and lease another , would you?
For me it’s vital we stay up , because going down will be a disaster especially in this current climate
I’d love Warburton to prove me wrong , I’d love for him tommorow to have the balls and drop BOS and try a new formation if he does that then that’s a start but i can’t see it |
To be honest, if we fck him off at the end of the season there will be no tears from me if it costs nothing but we need someone in a similar vein who knows how to operate under the same football economic model that he does. I’m not talking about managers who can operate at a small budget, I’m talking about managers that can work and develop players to sell on.
I just don’t think there are many of those around. If we stay up this season, I’d like to see him get a yearly rolling contract. [Post edited 15 Dec 2020 9:41]
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| Warburton not the problem on 09:56 - Dec 15 with 837 views | daveB |
| Warburton not the problem on 11:44 - Dec 14 by paulparker |
Can I ask the OP that if Warburton isn’t the problem /issue then who is ? |
I don't think he's the only problem and it will be magically fixed by sacking him but it is daft to say he can't do a lot better. The results in 2020 bar that 6 game run before lockdown and the wins over Cardiff and Swansea have been pretty crap.
Personally I hope we can put a few results together and Warburton stays for the season, I think he can help with individual player development and have thought with the last few managers as long as we are not in a relegation battle there is little point in changing. Obviously if we lose the next 2 he's probably had it as we will be right in trouble. |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 10:44 - Dec 15 with 784 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Warburton not the problem on 09:56 - Dec 15 by daveB |
I don't think he's the only problem and it will be magically fixed by sacking him but it is daft to say he can't do a lot better. The results in 2020 bar that 6 game run before lockdown and the wins over Cardiff and Swansea have been pretty crap.
Personally I hope we can put a few results together and Warburton stays for the season, I think he can help with individual player development and have thought with the last few managers as long as we are not in a relegation battle there is little point in changing. Obviously if we lose the next 2 he's probably had it as we will be right in trouble. |
That's where I am too.
Plus, I would add, we're getting out-thought in the second half on a fairly regular basis now. |  |
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| Warburton not the problem on 11:05 - Dec 15 with 756 views | paulparker |
| Warburton not the problem on 09:39 - Dec 15 by BazzaInTheLoft |
To be honest, if we fck him off at the end of the season there will be no tears from me if it costs nothing but we need someone in a similar vein who knows how to operate under the same football economic model that he does. I’m not talking about managers who can operate at a small budget, I’m talking about managers that can work and develop players to sell on.
I just don’t think there are many of those around. If we stay up this season, I’d like to see him get a yearly rolling contract. [Post edited 15 Dec 2020 9:41]
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Karl Robinson another name if you want to develop players
And why not lee Bowyer ? Done a good job at charlton bringing through youth
If Warburton is our man then the board need to give him another contract if they don’t think he is and we are starting to drop them what are we waiting for it makes no sense to me | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Warburton not the problem on 11:48 - Dec 15 with 714 views | dm97 |
| Warburton not the problem on 11:05 - Dec 15 by paulparker |
Karl Robinson another name if you want to develop players
And why not lee Bowyer ? Done a good job at charlton bringing through youth
If Warburton is our man then the board need to give him another contract if they don’t think he is and we are starting to drop them what are we waiting for it makes no sense to me |
To use a Warbs cliche against him; he’s a professional football manager. His contract ending shouldn’t affect performance. I agree it’s not ideal, but if a manager genuinely checks out because his contract is expiring that’s a Barton Bad Egg if we’ve ever seen one.
P.S. Think Karl Robinson is a likely replacement in summer or January, I believe he was close when JFH got it. But trading like for like there IMO. |  | | |
| Warburton not the problem on 11:51 - Dec 15 with 702 views | switchingcode |
| Warburton not the problem on 10:44 - Dec 15 by BrianMcCarthy |
That's where I am too.
Plus, I would add, we're getting out-thought in the second half on a fairly regular basis now. |
Don’t you think you are just repeating what’s happened at this stage for the past couple of seasons.You start well and get a bit excited of maybe making the play offs then go on a poor run and it’s all talk of relegation sack the manager then win a few on the trot and settle for 16 th.
I fully expect that to be the same this season and every chance you win the next 2 games both not as easy as some think though.Would think the big decision will be whether to extend Warburtons contract before the new year. | | | |
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