| Matheson to.... 11:56 - Jan 31 with 22778 views | IOMDale |
Wolves. That's what Pete O'Rourke is reporting. He'll be loaned back to us as part of the deal.
Given Norwich have just signed a young right-back from Coventry which could total £3 million, we should be looking at similar for a player who's been lauded in the Nationals. |  | | |  |
| Matheson to.... on 15:37 - Jan 31 with 3057 views | DaleFan7 |
| Matheson to.... on 15:18 - Jan 31 by RippDale |
Fans get deluded when it comes to valuations of our players. 1 million for a 17 year old who has played well at times this season but as also looked average in games . There is potential there but he may not develop further both physically and technically? I think it's a great fee if we also put in our usual clauses |
So Coventry get £3.5m plus addons for Sam McCallum who has a very similar profile to Luke, yet has never been called up to the international 'U' teams, has limited experience against higher league teams compared to Luke. But we should accept less than a 3rd because we're Rochdale and will roll over for a belly rub from anyone? |  | | |
| Matheson to.... on 15:38 - Jan 31 with 3045 views | sweetcorn |
| Matheson to.... on 15:37 - Jan 31 by DaleFan7 |
So Coventry get £3.5m plus addons for Sam McCallum who has a very similar profile to Luke, yet has never been called up to the international 'U' teams, has limited experience against higher league teams compared to Luke. But we should accept less than a 3rd because we're Rochdale and will roll over for a belly rub from anyone? |
Maybe Sam McCullum is a better player than Matheson? Has that thought ever crossed your mind? |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Matheson to.... on 15:42 - Jan 31 with 3003 views | judd |
| Matheson to.... on 15:38 - Jan 31 by sweetcorn |
Maybe Sam McCullum is a better player than Matheson? Has that thought ever crossed your mind? |
How would you define that? |  |
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| Matheson to.... on 15:44 - Jan 31 with 2987 views | boromat |
So £3.38m is the highest for a right back and he was 23 yes old. Move was Sheff Utd to Villa (in the Prem). Not sure what that tells us really. | |
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| Matheson to.... on 15:47 - Jan 31 with 2954 views | 49thseason |
So from that I conclude that this is a tad under the £1.1m Arsenal paid Charlton for Jenkinson as the only other right back,to have been sold for £1m or more by a league 1 club. Midfielders, and, forwards attract bigger fees which is why Peterborough concentrate on finding decent forwards and developing them.
We were never going to get anyone to invest much more in a 17 year old so I think this is a goodish deal and we still get to use him for the rest of the season rather than exposing us to the vagaries of McLaughlin's fitness issues.
I am more interested to see how the club invests the money, hopefully it isnt used just to stem losses each month but is used in part at least to grow attendances and improve other money making facilities |  | | |
| Matheson to.... on 15:48 - Jan 31 with 2937 views | sweetcorn |
| Matheson to.... on 15:42 - Jan 31 by judd |
How would you define that? |
Well I'm not a football scout and I've never seen the lad, so I can't. That doesn't mean he isn't though.
You can't just say though "player A went for 3 million, so player B should also go for that because they play similar positions" football doesn't work like that.
Just quickly looked on YouTube, straight away you can see the lad is far more physically developed than Matheson is, I'd imagine that contributes massively to a fee. Matheson is always a gamble, he has talent with his feet, but is built like a school boy, he may never develop to level expected.. [Post edited 31 Jan 2020 15:54]
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| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:00 - Jan 31 with 2841 views | dingdangblue |
| Matheson to.... on 15:44 - Jan 31 by boromat |
So £3.38m is the highest for a right back and he was 23 yes old. Move was Sheff Utd to Villa (in the Prem). Not sure what that tells us really. |
I suppose 1 thing to notice on that list is there are no 17 year olds on it. |  |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:00 - Jan 31 with 2845 views | dawlishdale |
| Matheson to.... on 15:48 - Jan 31 by sweetcorn |
Well I'm not a football scout and I've never seen the lad, so I can't. That doesn't mean he isn't though.
You can't just say though "player A went for 3 million, so player B should also go for that because they play similar positions" football doesn't work like that.
Just quickly looked on YouTube, straight away you can see the lad is far more physically developed than Matheson is, I'd imagine that contributes massively to a fee. Matheson is always a gamble, he has talent with his feet, but is built like a school boy, he may never develop to level expected.. [Post edited 31 Jan 2020 15:54]
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Sorry...but if we've sold him for only £1m, then whoever's done the negotiation on our part can fook right off.
I'm sick and tired of DB telling us that we can only survive for 2 months on £500k.
The club can do one. | | | |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:06 - Jan 31 with 2790 views | sweetcorn |
| Matheson to.... on 16:00 - Jan 31 by dawlishdale |
Sorry...but if we've sold him for only £1m, then whoever's done the negotiation on our part can fook right off.
I'm sick and tired of DB telling us that we can only survive for 2 months on £500k.
The club can do one. |
He's had about 12 months of adult football, performing inconsistently (to be expected from a 17 year old) and to my eye looks physically under developed.
Why are people expecting such a high fee? | |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:11 - Jan 31 with 2733 views | fitzochris |
| Matheson to.... on 16:06 - Jan 31 by sweetcorn |
He's had about 12 months of adult football, performing inconsistently (to be expected from a 17 year old) and to my eye looks physically under developed.
Why are people expecting such a high fee? |
Everybody in the media is banging on about the goal he scored against Man U but, for me, anybody who saw his contribution to the goal against Newcastle knows what's coming once he's fully developed.
Yes, he could injure himself etc etc, but I'd say that potential is worth a lot more than £1m in today's market.
The fee has yet to be confirmed, however - and probably won't be. |  |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:11 - Jan 31 with 2724 views | DaleiLama |
| Matheson to.... on 16:00 - Jan 31 by dingdangblue |
I suppose 1 thing to notice on that list is there are no 17 year olds on it. |
Another thing to notice is Luke isn't going to make the Top 100 if it's a flat £1m. |  |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:15 - Jan 31 with 2690 views | DaleiLama |
| Matheson to.... on 16:11 - Jan 31 by fitzochris |
Everybody in the media is banging on about the goal he scored against Man U but, for me, anybody who saw his contribution to the goal against Newcastle knows what's coming once he's fully developed.
Yes, he could injure himself etc etc, but I'd say that potential is worth a lot more than £1m in today's market.
The fee has yet to be confirmed, however - and probably won't be. |
His pace was also on show when he tracked back to chase an attacker. Can't remember who now but he gained about 10 yards on the attacker in less than half a pitch. Ok he wasn't running with a ball, but ......... that speed with an eye for a cross and the ability to beat a man is a lot more than £1m of talent. | |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:17 - Jan 31 with 2666 views | judd |
| Matheson to.... on 16:06 - Jan 31 by sweetcorn |
He's had about 12 months of adult football, performing inconsistently (to be expected from a 17 year old) and to my eye looks physically under developed.
Why are people expecting such a high fee? |
You simply cannot overlook his performances against higher level opposition. That is where he is being judged, in my opinion.
Week in week out he is targeted by physicality bordering on assault (Ched Evans, anyone?)
Put him up against Premiership teams and he has been outstanding - at least 2 if not 3 wide men seen off at Man U (yes, I know), and the run and pass v Newcastle...
Does washing our finances so publicly mean that buyers see us as desperate? | |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:24 - Jan 31 with 2591 views | DaleiLama |
| Matheson to.... on 16:17 - Jan 31 by judd |
You simply cannot overlook his performances against higher level opposition. That is where he is being judged, in my opinion.
Week in week out he is targeted by physicality bordering on assault (Ched Evans, anyone?)
Put him up against Premiership teams and he has been outstanding - at least 2 if not 3 wide men seen off at Man U (yes, I know), and the run and pass v Newcastle...
Does washing our finances so publicly mean that buyers see us as desperate? |
I think by doing so, it's clear for anyone to see we were well rinsed! | |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:29 - Jan 31 with 2544 views | Cleedale |
| Matheson to.... on 15:48 - Jan 31 by sweetcorn |
Well I'm not a football scout and I've never seen the lad, so I can't. That doesn't mean he isn't though.
You can't just say though "player A went for 3 million, so player B should also go for that because they play similar positions" football doesn't work like that.
Just quickly looked on YouTube, straight away you can see the lad is far more physically developed than Matheson is, I'd imagine that contributes massively to a fee. Matheson is always a gamble, he has talent with his feet, but is built like a school boy, he may never develop to level expected.. [Post edited 31 Jan 2020 15:54]
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Interesting last para. there.
Just happened to meet someone recently who'd played quite a lot of pro. rugby in Wales. OK, know it's a totally different sport but he was telling me how coaches looking for talent would turn up at the family home of a youngster and meet the parents in deciding who they would and wouldn't sign. Often times it would be to do with looking at physical attributes - not necessarily the skills - of the youngster but in particular looking at their parents to see how physical development might unravel itself.
'Perhaps' one of the reasons Vardy was in lower leagues having once been at Sheff. Wed.(youth). He was already 25 whilst at Fleetwood but as we all know banging goals in. And lightening pace! You can't buy that.
At the end of the day Luke's only 17 so good luck to him and hope he has a long and successful footie career. | | | |
| Matheson to.... on 16:38 - Jan 31 with 2439 views | boromat |
| Matheson to.... on 16:00 - Jan 31 by dingdangblue |
I suppose 1 thing to notice on that list is there are no 17 year olds on it. |
A closer comparison might be left back Rico Henry a 19 years old. But he was bought by a championship side for £1.62m.
I'd say if Luke is attracting top half premier League sides at 17 then maybe we are right to feel a bit short changed with £1m. I hoping the high 7 figure fee that was mentioned is closer to the real value. | |
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| Matheson to.... on 16:40 - Jan 31 with 2423 views | dalelee |
| Matheson to.... on 16:17 - Jan 31 by judd |
You simply cannot overlook his performances against higher level opposition. That is where he is being judged, in my opinion.
Week in week out he is targeted by physicality bordering on assault (Ched Evans, anyone?)
Put him up against Premiership teams and he has been outstanding - at least 2 if not 3 wide men seen off at Man U (yes, I know), and the run and pass v Newcastle...
Does washing our finances so publicly mean that buyers see us as desperate? |
I am delighted for Luke that he has signed for a top division team, however its a shame that we dont get to see our players develop in our first team and play regularly over a longer period of time.
In the late 80's and early 90's I was jealous of how many young players Crewe brought through into their first team, from the youth team and players signed from local non league.
To compare Matheson (16 games) and Daniel Adshead (11 games), some of Crewe's 80's/90's young stars:
David Platt played 134 times for Crewe - 56 goals
Craig Hignett 121 - 42 goals
Danny Murphy 132 - 27 goals
I know this is nothing new for us. Stephen Bywater didnt even play a league game for us! Still, its a shame when we lose our players so young and dont get to see a bigger part of their journey to the top...... | | | |
| Matheson to.... on 16:53 - Jan 31 with 2296 views | KenBoon |
How much does the academy cost to run? I know we’ve had some good games out of Matheson, but we got pretty much nothing out of Adshead. The transfer fees are underwhelming so is it worth the money being invested? The club decided to focus on living from transfer fees above building the fan base, but with the big clubs expanding their youth set ups they’re more likely to sweep up more players, leaving fewer and fewer. For it to be worth it’s while it needs to make good money. |  | | |
| Matheson to.... on 16:59 - Jan 31 with 2233 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Matheson to.... on 16:38 - Jan 31 by boromat |
A closer comparison might be left back Rico Henry a 19 years old. But he was bought by a championship side for £1.62m.
I'd say if Luke is attracting top half premier League sides at 17 then maybe we are right to feel a bit short changed with £1m. I hoping the high 7 figure fee that was mentioned is closer to the real value. |
I reckon they will get him playing in a much more advanced position, he is better going forward than defending , assuming he ever makes their first team |  |
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| Matheson to.... on 17:04 - Jan 31 with 2182 views | 49thseason |
| Matheson to.... on 16:53 - Jan 31 by KenBoon |
How much does the academy cost to run? I know we’ve had some good games out of Matheson, but we got pretty much nothing out of Adshead. The transfer fees are underwhelming so is it worth the money being invested? The club decided to focus on living from transfer fees above building the fan base, but with the big clubs expanding their youth set ups they’re more likely to sweep up more players, leaving fewer and fewer. For it to be worth it’s while it needs to make good money. |
I thought that the EFL pay a fee for each kid we take on, maybe not a lot but it probably helps to pay for pitches and coaches. If we can move up to a higher grade of Academy, I think they pay more. Tranmere restarted their academy when they got back into league 2 and were looking forward to EFL money to help run it as a level 4 academy (think we are level 3) | | | |
| Matheson to.... on 17:29 - Jan 31 with 1996 views | jonahwhereru |
On the face of it a good deal all round, if the million with add ons is true. Although I have my reservations about the add ons at this stage. It could be years before we see any return on these, if any at all. That is partly why it’s a good compromise.
Great advert for our academy, and our flexibility once players have ceased the opportunity.
Great for Luke himself, thanks lad for not walking away from us and signing a first pro contract elsewhere, and leaving us with just £240k compensation.
Good for the club, that’s over 2 million alone raised from fees from acadamy players since Jamie left (not including ad ons that may still come our way). Plus well over 400 appearances for Dale from acadamy players.
Sweetcorn et al are simply more realistic than some others with player valuations. I valued him at 800k.
I wonder how many opposition managers and scouts valued Luke at 3 million plus after seeing him in the flesh. Clearly not many an no one has come in with an offer that trumps Wolves. Like a lot of instances in life a product is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
We did right by Luke and he did right by us. A good news story, end of. | | | |
| Matheson to.... on 17:49 - Jan 31 with 1843 views | macro |
Seems a good deal to me as long as the add ons are done well which Dale have a superb record of doing.
My only gripe will be if a proportion of this money doesn't bring in some new blood. |  | | |
| Matheson to.... on 17:55 - Jan 31 with 1794 views | dingdangblue |
Another thing to note is the timing of the sale. Are we that desperate that we have been forced to sell on transfer deadline day? What's the rush - especially if he is being loaned back to us? He's signed a 3 year contract and we are selling him on the last day of this window to what seems like the only bidder? Why the rush? | |
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| Matheson to.... on 17:58 - Jan 31 with 1769 views | Shun |
| Matheson to.... on 16:06 - Jan 31 by sweetcorn |
He's had about 12 months of adult football, performing inconsistently (to be expected from a 17 year old) and to my eye looks physically under developed.
Why are people expecting such a high fee? |
He has the frame of a typical 17-year-old. It’s far easier to bulk somebody up than it is to teach them to be skilful, pacy, intelligent - all three of which Luke shows on a regular basis that he is.
I’m genuinely stunned there are some (a small minority, mind) who think £1m regardless of add-ons is a good deal.
- His whole career ahead of him
- England U18 international
- Playing (and holding his own) regularly in League One
- Two outstanding performances in high profile matches against Premier League opposition where he scored and assisted, and then received nationwide attention
- Is sitting comfortably on the hype train
- Monitored by PL clubs
- The highest-profile youngster outside The Championship
- Wasn’t nearing the end of his contract
The Sky Sports reporter said he was one of the most sought-after players in the country, for an indication of how he’s viewed. Taking all that into account, it beggars belief that anyone in their right mind could think £1m is an acceptable fee. [Post edited 31 Jan 2020 18:06]
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| Matheson to.... on 18:09 - Jan 31 with 1683 views | AtThePeake |
| Matheson to.... on 17:29 - Jan 31 by jonahwhereru |
On the face of it a good deal all round, if the million with add ons is true. Although I have my reservations about the add ons at this stage. It could be years before we see any return on these, if any at all. That is partly why it’s a good compromise.
Great advert for our academy, and our flexibility once players have ceased the opportunity.
Great for Luke himself, thanks lad for not walking away from us and signing a first pro contract elsewhere, and leaving us with just £240k compensation.
Good for the club, that’s over 2 million alone raised from fees from acadamy players since Jamie left (not including ad ons that may still come our way). Plus well over 400 appearances for Dale from acadamy players.
Sweetcorn et al are simply more realistic than some others with player valuations. I valued him at 800k.
I wonder how many opposition managers and scouts valued Luke at 3 million plus after seeing him in the flesh. Clearly not many an no one has come in with an offer that trumps Wolves. Like a lot of instances in life a product is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
We did right by Luke and he did right by us. A good news story, end of. |
Or what someone is willing to accept. |  |
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