Minutes from the recent meeting between QPR and representatives from the club's supporters' groups.

Date: Monday March 18, 2013

Venue: Loftus Road Stadium

Time: 5:45pm

In attendance:

From the club: CEO Philip Beard, CFO Mark Donnelly and customer services officer Andy Rees

From the supporter groups: Neil Dejyothin (QPR 1st), John Reid (QPR LSA), Paul Finney (Indy R's) and Paul Moore (QPR DSA)

Apologies:

Dave Thomas (AKUTRs – www.akutrs.co.uk)

Introduction: - The club stressed the importance it placed on regular and constructive dialogue with supporters

- QPR1st, The LSA and IndyR’s thanked the club for providing the forum for fans’ views to be heard and to understand some of the reasoning behind key issues.

- QPR1st explained that the majority of QPR fans were passionate but supportive of the club and wanted their views to be listened to.

- IndyRs stressed the importance of the club within the community and it was important the club continued to appreciate that.

- The club reiterated that the short term goal was Premier League survival.

The Official Supporters Club (The OSC)

- The LSA expressed their concern around the OSC and the resignation of their committee.

- The club reiterated that they had offered to meet the OSC to discuss any concerns or issues but the OSC had declined.

- The club reiterated that the OSC was the fans’ group and therefore asked all the fan groups present their views on what they wanted from an Official Supporters Club.

- It was agreed that the LSA members present would meet with the OSC and try to find an acceptable resolution.

- There followed a discussion on how the OSC should communicate with the club and how this should be communicated back to the wider supporter base.

Dedicated Customer Services Officer – Andy Rees

- Andy Rees is the new Customer Services Officer at the club and can be contacted on andyr@qpr.co.uk

- Andy will act as a central hub for all lines of enquiries from supporters and supporters groups.

- The club agreed that it was important for all queries and issues to be responded to and communicated back to those raising them.

- Andy offered to meet with supporter group representatives regularly to discuss any topics of interest or concern.

The Training Ground

- The Club updated on the plans for a new training ground at Warren Farm.

- Plans have been submitted for planning consent and the club will provide an update as appropriate.

- QPR1st, The LSA and IndyR’s agreed with the importance of a new training ground for the long term success and sustainability of the Club.

- The club confirmed that the new training ground was a clear priority and potential relegation was not expected to impact on the development or timing.

- The club provided some design images of the plans (which are available on Ealing’s planning website).

- The DSA asked about the disabled access and facilities at the new training ground and the club confirmed they would be DDA compliant.

- QPR1st asked if a Women’s Super League team could be based there and the club confirmed the plans could be adapted to meet requirements if the need arose.

- The club confirmed that all aspects of the club, particularly all the football departments, were feeding into the requirements for the training ground and also project representatives had visited other prominent training facilities.

The New Stadium:

- The club stressed that any discussions around a new stadium were very sensitive and confidential. The club confirmed they have looked at a large number of sites within the local area and are working on their preferred option.

- QPR1st asked what consideration and investigations had been made to improving and upgrading Loftus Road with the Club responding that a full feasibility study of options for Loftus Road had confirmed that there were no opportunities to expand or redevelop Loftus Road. All the supporter groups recognised that despite the affection for Loftus Road that there was a need to move to a new stadium for the club to progress.

- The club confirmed that at the appropriate time supporters would be consulted regarding plans for a new stadium to ensure that the essence of Loftus Road was captured and preserved.

- The club stressed that this was a long term project and there was no quick or easy solution.

Ticket Pricing

- The LSA raised the £20 price cap for away tickets campaign by the Football Supporters Federation and whether the club would commit to doing it. The club explained that it was the home team who set prices for away teams and the only requirement was that away tickets had to be priced comparatively as home tickets therefore The club had no say over prices charged to QPR away fans.

- A discussion followed about membership fees and booking fees and the club explained the commercial requirements, the cost of administration and the fact that all charges and fees were benchmarked regularly against other clubs.

- The LSA feel that supporters are being priced out of the game and that there are many die hard Queens Park Rangers supporters who can no longer afford to attend. QPR1st also cited knowing of many supporters who can no longer afford to come to Loftus Road.

- QPR1st asked about the ticket prices for next year and the club confirmed that they would be communicated in due course. QPR1st asked whether the club could consider an early bird discount scheme and whether there would be any incentive schemes in the event of relegation.

- The supporters’ representatives expressed the importance of keeping the supporters on side in the event of relegation and the ground filled to capacity and requested the club consider lowering ticket pricing if they were in the Championship.

Lower Loft Family Stand

- The issue of moving non family season ticket members out of the Lower Loft was discussed again. - The club reiterated the process and the difficulties but were prepared to discuss ideas on how to solve this problem and that if representatives came up with proposals they would be reviewed and considered. However it was clear from the discussion around the table that the solutions were not easy as any alternative would impact on other supporters in other areas of the ground. The number of supporters affected and moved out of the Lower Loft was around 280 of which only 40 did not renew their season tickets.

- The club confirmed that the free upgrade for those season ticket holders who had to move to gold tickets would not apply for next season.

Touting

- The issue of ticket touting was raised and is an on-going concern for supporters. IndyR’s, The LSA and QPR1st expressed concern about the use of Viagogo and the potential issue of opposition supporters buying tickets for QPR fans. The club explained that Viagogo was essentially a service to season ticket holders who were unable to attend particular games and offered them a secure market place to sell their tickets.

- The club committed to investigating any instances of tickets being touted that could be traced back to the club or season ticket holders.

- The club also confirmed that the presence of away supporters in home sections should be stewarded and offenders removed from the ground. The club would pursue this with the stewarding companies.

- IndyR’s said the club need to do more to tackle this issue.

Club Finances and Expenditure

- IndyR’s asked about the fees paid to agents and the club explained that the high total was due to the activity and number of transfers that had occurred over the last 18 months.

- QPR1st asked for the restoration of the annual general meeting (AGM) or a platform to discuss the club’s financial information to ensure supporters understood the strategy rather than reading views from the media.

Branding & Advertising

- IndyR's gave several examples of clubs who have posters or signs around different areas of the city – including in our areas – advertising and promoting their football clubs. The club explained that there was little commercial value in paid for advertising given our capacity and ticket sales.

- IndyR's asked whether the club could do more to promote itself and its players in and around the stadium via banners.

Player Appearances

- The club confirmed that the players were committed to community activity and would all be making appearances before the end of the season and some good progress had been made since the fans forum. The Club would work to ensure that they would publicise more of the good work being done. - The LSA stated they felt it important that player’s turn up for the LSA children’s Christmas Party.

Treatment of ex-players

- IndyR's raised that there was a lack of appreciation shown towards former players and that the club should do more to recognise their achievements. - There were suggestions made about bringing back the teams at special occasions, such as anniversaries for the likes of the 1967 and 1982 teams. - The Club replied that they receive a lot of applications for the high profile matches and it was not possible to fulfil all requests. Consideration would be given to marking particular anniversaries and to use players as ambassadors on certain match days.

DSA:

- The DSA asked about the requirement of showing your proof of disability every season and the club responded that it was following DWP guidelines and practice. Consideration would be given for individual cases if there were special circumstances.

AOB:

- The club agreed to schedule a follow up meeting.

- Ian Taylor (Head of Media & Comms) will follow up with Paul Finney of IndyR’s regarding Philip Beard potentially appearing on the Open All Rs Podcast.

- The LSA raised the question of why there is a protective cage / fencing between the Q Block in the Upper Loft and the R Block in Ellerslie Road and the fact that the views from that area of the stadium are already quite poor and hindered further by this cage / fence – the club agreed to look into this.

Tweet @PaulFinney1969, @neildejyothin, @QPR1st, @QPR_LSA, @qprindyrs Pictures - Action Images

Photo: Action Images

toboboly added 09:18 - Mar 25 Whilst I appreciate that you cannot glean everything from minutes and that the people involved from a fan side are going out of their way to try and get improvements I can help but feel in reading that that the club don't care; -Have a local prescence, builds up a fanbase that may turn up when the tourists go "We don't care about that as we currently sell out". -Bring prices down "Other clubs are expensive so we are too". -Bring prices down when we are relegated, supporters are being priced out "Meh". -Why did the OSC resign? "We tried talking to them already, if you care then you should try" -Stop touts, Viagogo doesn't work "Yes it does"

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Northernr added 10:15 - Mar 25 The prices if relegated is going to be a big turning point. If they think they can charge about the same as they have this season in the Championship then the attendances will plummet and the good will for Fernandes and co will completely vanish. You simply cannot charge £700+ and £40+ for Championship season tickets and match tickets. They decided to spunk all this money on players, the fans shouldn't be made to pay for that.

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toboboly added 11:59 - Mar 25 Definately. Lets not forget that our attendences weren't brilliant even in our Championship year. Away tickets (bar Cardiff and Watford) were easy to come by and only the last home game was any trouble getting a ticket for. I don't think they really understand about football. Next year will be a massive eye opener for them.
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Neil_SI added 14:02 - Mar 25 I attended this meeting on behalf of QPR1st. I can only speak from my personal point of view, but the Club had not been communicating well enough with its supporters for a long time and that predates the current owners. My personal view is that the owners came here and perhaps did not realise the extent of the proud history and tradition of the Club, and that's not unexpected when you've inherited a Club in the poor state ours was in when they arrived. But their money does not mean that they should do as they pleased and not be answerable to the fans, because that is should never be the case for any football club, not least such a community driven one as ours. I think it's obvious we have some smart businessmen on the senior management with excellent business acumen, but there does seem to be a lack of football experience or understanding football, culture and that can only come over time. Either they need to learn themselves, by which they will make some mistakes along the way, or get some people in to help them progress. I viewed this meeting as a starting point and any relationship needs to start somewhere and grow and evolve over a period of time. I'm hopeful that there will be a positive two-way process where we can help educate each other for the greater good of the Club and the community it serves. It's important that they do take some guidance from supporters as well. I mean lets face it, the majority of us have seen it all before over the many years and decades of following the Club and the sport of football as a whole. But our attitude has to be willing too. We've had to put up with a lot over the years and that's made us restless and impatient, or full of apathy, so we have to give the benefit of the doubt at certain times too. I'd like to think the Club were surprised to find that we weren't in the meeting to just make demands all of the time and expect them to be met, but that there was a desire to discuss key issues in a reasonable and rationale manner and that it was important that whatever decisions the Club came to on certain matters, that the supporters views were respected and taken into consideration. I'm certain that whatever the owners vision is for the Club, that they can be met and to a level that satisfies the supporters too. It's how you go about doing it that's important, and what level of respect you show to certain issues and topics along the way that supporters are sensitive about. As ever, let's see how the Club respond to the feedback they've received and give them a chance and the time to do that. There's a real opportunity to make this a fantastic relationship rather than just lip service, but as ever, it's up to the Club to show they're willing and able to do that and we've made some decent steps forward in recent months and simply have to keep chipping away at it.

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toboboly added 15:21 - Mar 25 Thanks for that Neil. Were there any timeframes discussed? Or further meetings planned?
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Neil_SI added 15:56 - Mar 25 No problem mate. There were some time frames discussed, but nothing concrete and the Club were unwilling to commit to any specific dates, as they don't want to disappoint anybody should those dates not be met. They've submitted plans for Planning Consent for the new training ground and I would anticipate that they will provide an update on their progress before the end of the season, and from that point, I would expect dates and time frames to become a little clearer and more concrete. The proposals for the new training ground are impressive and really encouraging for us as a Club and something we should all be very much looking forward to, and this does appear to be the immediate focus and priority in terms of the owners larger plans. There is obviously a desire on their part to relocate to a new stadium in the medium to long term, but they stressed there's a lot of sensitive and confidential issues involved with that and we're probably some way off from hearing concrete details. In any case, you can expect this topic to be regularly on the agenda of the meeting's between the Club and Supporters Groups. There are definitely further meeting's planned between the Club and the Fan Sites and Supporters Groups. The Club are already actively working towards penning some dates in for some of these to take place. Hope that helps.

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merovingian added 16:03 - Mar 25 Some of the Players tend to do the same mistakes over & over again, why? This is single most important question, infact the ONLY one that matters all across the board.
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Neil_SI added 16:56 - Mar 25 That's an open ended question that doesn't have a clear answer, and you have to allow for mistakes to happen and expect them to. :) But I'll have a stab on what contributes to ours; - The lack of footballing vision and philosophy as a club. The amount of manager's and player's we've seen come and go over a lengthy period of time mean we've accumulated layers and layers of players. - Those players have had to fit or adapt to different manager's philosophy's and styles on how the game should be played. Look at the contrasting differences between the likes of Iain Dowie, Paulo Sousa, Luigi De Canio, Neil Warnock, Mark Hughes to Harry Redknapp. And that's not naming them all. - The constant chopping and changing of manager's means that there's been little opportunity to coach our players and work on both their strengths and weaknesses over a period of time. It's such a results driven business that our younger players haven't been afforded the opportunity or time to grow and learn from their mistakes; more likely they'll be replaced for poor form. Just how many manager's did Matthew Connolly see come and go before he was eventually shown the door? - The club's lack of footballing philosophy and identity or employing a model that only focuses on the first-team, means the reserves and youth team suffer. There has been no connection between the teams and progression that allows players to come to QPR and understand what they're going to expect and how they will evolve and develop as the age and start to realise their potential. - That in turn is supposed to connect your club to it's scouting system, so that the model to identify players is one that can attract and find the right character that fits that vision from the youth team all the way through to the seniors. This in theory should also apply to the back room staff right across the club. The club should know at any given point, if a player left at whatever part of their lifecycle and chain, what targets would be in place to replace that player, who fits the model and profile we want for the club. - The state of the playing surface at Loftus Road continues to be a problem. It's certainly not conducive to an attractive, expansive game of football and is no doubt causing our players all sorts of problems. Major investment would be wise here, it's more of a hindrance than a help. - The amount of players we've signed and sold means they've not had a proper chance to gel and get to know one another. The key part of this is knowing a player's mentality and temperament inside out. How do they react when the chips are down and the going gets tough? How willing are they to dig deep when it matters? In terms of this season, this is where the club went wrong: - The pre-season was atrocious. The tour to Asia was for commercial purposes and provided opposition that was of no benefit to the attacking or defensive shape needed at Premier League level. - Mark Hughes' decision to rip up and offload a settled and committed team. It was ageing, but he replaced it with so called more technical and experienced Premier League players. Too many. - There wasn't enough due diligence done on those said players in terms of their mental and physical state, despite their past achievements, or because of the high profile nature of the club's they came from. - Mark Hughes didn't seem to know how he wanted to play; he signed a lot of players but there was no balance to the side, regardless of what formation he chose to use and he didn't have a settled formation either, constantly chopping and changing it throughout the same match. Never really a smart idea, especially when you're trying to gel so many new players. - Not playing to players' strengths, such as Djibril Cisse, who we seemed to play in a lone role and pump the ball to his head and wonder why it wasn't working. - Creating a situation where the squad is absolutely enormous and you've a large number of professional's unable to take part, because it's way over the 25 allowed for the season. - Ostracising some of those who made it in the 25 and making it clearly obvious that they had no future or very little part to play. I suppose I could go on, but I guess I'm just swaying further away from being able to give any clear answer. ;)

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merovingian added 21:50 - Mar 25 Sir Alex recipe of success is to instill dicipline up to as if the players being brainwashed, indoctrinated with sole purpose to carry out what has been agreed upon by players, coaches & none other by the gaffer himself. They hardly ease out their pace & intensity. Giving away easy goals none apparent as a result. Barca ball possession average astronomically high. Less mistakes will occur if the players are diciplined enough & through greater control the risks are minimized. We loose to many awkward slip up at the back while firing too many blanks, Harry brought in Samba, Remy to name a few signings to partly solve all these. As of today we look much more like a decent mid table team yet again failed on last match against Villa, before it was good vs Shampton & Sland. Why the sudden spike of performance? Are QPR team lack mental strenght to sustain high level of awareness through out the 95mins? Lack of intuitiveness? Or certain players simply failed to perfom up to the mark? It is small for you in fact much less a threat, yeah mistakes do happened at times if not always at crucial moment. Rock bottom as now. The fam trip, squad selection, condition of facility etc as borne out earlier some contributing factors in fact nearly all premiere league club experience the same story but the gist of argument is, why simply they perform better than us based on the result. Go ahead make another long winded post but remember, it is long & "winded." Bear that in mind.

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YorkRanger added 21:52 - Mar 25 As ever it is hard to assess a meeting from the Minutes, but it is hard not to feel spin and underwhelmed
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TacticalR added 16:37 - Mar 26 Thanks for the minutes from the meeting. It's actually a little bit hard to plough through them, especially since a lot of it concerns long-standing and detailed issues which are not going to be easy to resolve. But you've got to start somewhere. Neil_SI's last post is important, because it concerns some of the more strategic matters that we're all concerned about, and the meeting had quite a narrow focus, and so wasn't really about those things. Hopefully if the club can take on board some of that input about strategic matters it can avoid some of the mistakes it has made in the past.

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