| Hillys worst game ever here? 21:39 - Feb 26 with 12987 views | olympicdale |
Taking in to account the oposition, cant be many worse, absolutely toothless up front without Grant. Tutte is just running down his contract, JK was the only one to show any desire to change the game. Credit to Accy they deserved the win. |  |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 22:55 - Feb 27 with 1325 views | Swissdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 22:40 - Feb 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
Perkins was 25 when he came to Dale after playing all his football in non-league. Tutte is currently 22 and has played nearly 100 games of league football and played in a very succesful Premiership youth team. Age difference, yes. Experience difference, Tutte may even edge it.
The comparison with Perkins I think is appropriate. Both are a similar stature and could be described as all-action type midfielders. If Tutte wants to be a good League 2 player and go on to play at a higher level, which some on here think he is capable of, then someone like Perkins should be a good benchmark for him.
1) Passing - Tutte is nowhere near Perkins when it comes to moving the ball. Perkins has/had a good footballing brain whereas Tutte needs alot of time.
2) Tackling - Perkins was a great tackler, Tutte rarely tackles.
3) Energy - Both have it in abundance. With Perkins it had an end result. With Tutte it's a case of never has so little been achieved with so much effort.
4) Goals - Tutte has a better goal record.
Conclusion: Nowhere near the standard required for himself to be a play at a higher level or for Dale to be a promotion chasing side.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Comparing every aspect of Tutte's game to Perkins is a very strange way to sum up his ability as a player. Perkins was a diamond in the rough, and has gone on to play at a higher level ever since leaving us!
In my opinion you are being far too critical. So to put it into perspective, can you name 5 better midfield players we've had in the past 15 years say? |  | | |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:02 - Feb 27 with 1317 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 22:55 - Feb 27 by Swissdale |
Comparing every aspect of Tutte's game to Perkins is a very strange way to sum up his ability as a player. Perkins was a diamond in the rough, and has gone on to play at a higher level ever since leaving us!
In my opinion you are being far too critical. So to put it into perspective, can you name 5 better midfield players we've had in the past 15 years say? |
Hang on, Perkins got a move to Chesterfield. We didn't sell him to a Premiership or Championship club. He was no Will Buckely or Craig Dawson. He was subsequently shipped out to Stockport on loan in that (first) awful season they had. Perkins, when at Rochdale, was an example of a good non-league player becoming a good League 2 player.
Is this really an unfair comparison?
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:07 - Feb 27 with 1309 views | olympicdale |
This thread has now seemed to turn into a big Tutte bashing thread now. I don't know why we are comparing him to Perkins, Perkins had energy to burn, and could see a pass no one else could, he was a true terrier, Tutte is nothing like this, he is much more a luxury player, who wants to dictate the game higher up the pitch.
As Ive already said i hope Tutte is able to play in a centre midfield 2, because that seems to be a lot of peoples savior, with regards to him. I feel he isn't good enough when we aren't on the ball, to play in this position, and cant rely on JK to do all the dirty work.
I think his best work would be more suited to a role Matt Done made his own, playing just behind the strikers, in a false 9 role, giving him freedom to provide the strikers, and have a free role just in front of the box, and the 2 central midfielders doing the so called dirty work, having him as he is now, almost in a fake winger role, seems to be hampering his game, and restricting him. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:09 - Feb 27 with 1303 views | 442Dale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:02 - Feb 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
Hang on, Perkins got a move to Chesterfield. We didn't sell him to a Premiership or Championship club. He was no Will Buckely or Craig Dawson. He was subsequently shipped out to Stockport on loan in that (first) awful season they had. Perkins, when at Rochdale, was an example of a good non-league player becoming a good League 2 player.
Is this really an unfair comparison?
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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'twas Colchester, went on loan to Chesterfield.
But 5 better midfielders in last 15 years from post before?
Alex Russell
Jason Peake
Gary Jones
Jason Kennedy
Jason Taylor |  |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:22 - Feb 27 with 1288 views | Swissdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:09 - Feb 27 by 442Dale |
'twas Colchester, went on loan to Chesterfield.
But 5 better midfielders in last 15 years from post before?
Alex Russell
Jason Peake
Gary Jones
Jason Kennedy
Jason Taylor |
Alex Russell is the best player on that list (just in the 15 year bracket)
Can't say I agree that Taylor is a better player. Regardless, outside that list there aint many more in the past 15 years any better, so he can't be that bad! | | | |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:32 - Feb 27 with 1274 views | SaxonDale |
http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/141409/andrew-tutte?cc=5739
According to the above Tutte has assisted/scored almost a quarter of all our goals this season, a very good total for a midfielder. I agree that defending is a very weak part of his game, but his strengths as a player is primarily to contribute to the attack, something which the statistics would suggest he's doing effectively. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:38 - Feb 27 with 1266 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:07 - Feb 27 by olympicdale |
This thread has now seemed to turn into a big Tutte bashing thread now. I don't know why we are comparing him to Perkins, Perkins had energy to burn, and could see a pass no one else could, he was a true terrier, Tutte is nothing like this, he is much more a luxury player, who wants to dictate the game higher up the pitch.
As Ive already said i hope Tutte is able to play in a centre midfield 2, because that seems to be a lot of peoples savior, with regards to him. I feel he isn't good enough when we aren't on the ball, to play in this position, and cant rely on JK to do all the dirty work.
I think his best work would be more suited to a role Matt Done made his own, playing just behind the strikers, in a false 9 role, giving him freedom to provide the strikers, and have a free role just in front of the box, and the 2 central midfielders doing the so called dirty work, having him as he is now, almost in a fake winger role, seems to be hampering his game, and restricting him. |
Exactly, that is what the thread should be about, players not Keith Hill. Instead, emphasis is constantly placed upon the manager. Excuse after excuse is made for players that are essentially not good enough. New levels have been reached now - he's a luxury player and he'd suit a Done role (he can't pass a ball for chrissake man)!! for fook sake.
Anyway, you're right let's get back to normal. Grimes is a tortued genius, Hilly looks as though he's not up to it doesn't he? | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:45 - Feb 27 with 1262 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:22 - Feb 27 by Swissdale |
Alex Russell is the best player on that list (just in the 15 year bracket)
Can't say I agree that Taylor is a better player. Regardless, outside that list there aint many more in the past 15 years any better, so he can't be that bad! |
Swissdale, Perkins played in a period that was part of a very successful period for the club. He is the calibre of player - including JK, Jones, Taylor etc we require to get somewhere near there again. If the comparison is unfair then ok, but it's because it's unfair on Tutte.
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 00:15 - Feb 28 with 1242 views | olympicdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:38 - Feb 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
Exactly, that is what the thread should be about, players not Keith Hill. Instead, emphasis is constantly placed upon the manager. Excuse after excuse is made for players that are essentially not good enough. New levels have been reached now - he's a luxury player and he'd suit a Done role (he can't pass a ball for chrissake man)!! for fook sake.
Anyway, you're right let's get back to normal. Grimes is a tortued genius, Hilly looks as though he's not up to it doesn't he? |
the original thread wasn't a criticism of Hills tactics or whatnot, just his worst result, and worst team performance in his time here. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 00:45 - Feb 28 with 1231 views | Shun |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:32 - Feb 27 by SaxonDale |
http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/141409/andrew-tutte?cc=5739
According to the above Tutte has assisted/scored almost a quarter of all our goals this season, a very good total for a midfielder. I agree that defending is a very weak part of his game, but his strengths as a player is primarily to contribute to the attack, something which the statistics would suggest he's doing effectively. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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This post is all that needs to be read in the Tutte debate. |  | | |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 08:18 - Feb 28 with 1198 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 00:15 - Feb 28 by olympicdale |
the original thread wasn't a criticism of Hills tactics or whatnot, just his worst result, and worst team performance in his time here. |
Emphasis on the manager. Emphasis. Instead of the players. 'HILLYS worst game ever here? He's only been here five games. Some of the players 18 months.
Anyway, what were you smoking when you wrote that Tutte was a luxury player or should have a Done role. It takes him half an hour to decide whether he should pass five yards to his right or left. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 08:19 - Feb 28 with 1197 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 00:45 - Feb 28 by Shun |
This post is all that needs to be read in the Tutte debate. |
Abject performances? | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 10:08 - Feb 28 with 1158 views | judd |
Weren't Perkins fetched in as a left back from then non-league Morecambe, only to have to play in midfield because of injuries and/or suspensions? |  |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 13:00 - Feb 28 with 1107 views | olympicdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 10:08 - Feb 28 by judd |
Weren't Perkins fetched in as a left back from then non-league Morecambe, only to have to play in midfield because of injuries and/or suspensions? |
I think he's played left back for Barnsley a few times too this season. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 13:06 - Feb 28 with 1106 views | olympicdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 08:18 - Feb 28 by BigDaveMyCock |
Emphasis on the manager. Emphasis. Instead of the players. 'HILLYS worst game ever here? He's only been here five games. Some of the players 18 months.
Anyway, what were you smoking when you wrote that Tutte was a luxury player or should have a Done role. It takes him half an hour to decide whether he should pass five yards to his right or left. |
the actual original post did focus on the ACTUAL players, clearly stating the lack of performance from the players aside from JK to an extent.
Tuttes biggest attribute is his ability to run past a player at a short distance, so having him just in front of the box, and given his ability to shoot, I believe that would be a good position for him to play. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 14:30 - Feb 28 with 1059 views | NotEyreClue |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 23:45 - Feb 27 by BigDaveMyCock |
Swissdale, Perkins played in a period that was part of a very successful period for the club. He is the calibre of player - including JK, Jones, Taylor etc we require to get somewhere near there again. If the comparison is unfair then ok, but it's because it's unfair on Tutte.
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This is Tutte's second season at the club. The first season was dire in every sense of the word and to be honest nobody really impressed last season due to the fact that team morale was at an all time low after getting nobbed every gane. This season Tutte has a very impressive goal/assist ratio for a midfielder. He has gone missing in a fair few games there's no doubt about that but he's still only young. Perkins time in the lower leagues probably served him better when moving up to the FL as he was a very tough, combative and tenacious player. I think its often easier for a player to move up the leagues as opposed to being wrapped in cotton wool as a youngster at a higher divison club. Perkins was/is a box to box midfielder with a remarkable engine and I honestly don't see Tutte as that kind of player. Its also easy to play your best football when the rest of the team is doing well and that's something Tutte hasn't really experienced in abundance yet (and probably never will tbh). |  |
| The modern pioneer of mealy mouthed bollocks. |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 18:43 - Feb 28 with 1001 views | olympicdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 14:30 - Feb 28 by NotEyreClue |
This is Tutte's second season at the club. The first season was dire in every sense of the word and to be honest nobody really impressed last season due to the fact that team morale was at an all time low after getting nobbed every gane. This season Tutte has a very impressive goal/assist ratio for a midfielder. He has gone missing in a fair few games there's no doubt about that but he's still only young. Perkins time in the lower leagues probably served him better when moving up to the FL as he was a very tough, combative and tenacious player. I think its often easier for a player to move up the leagues as opposed to being wrapped in cotton wool as a youngster at a higher divison club. Perkins was/is a box to box midfielder with a remarkable engine and I honestly don't see Tutte as that kind of player. Its also easy to play your best football when the rest of the team is doing well and that's something Tutte hasn't really experienced in abundance yet (and probably never will tbh). |
I think your right with regards to higher league youngsters moving down the football league, it is much easier for non league players moving up the league, than released premier league youngsters moving down the football league ladder. They have so many people at a young age telling them how great they are etc, and they often find it tough to adapt to proper football, but Tutte has had a few years in the football league now, this cant be an excuse for him now. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:10 - Feb 28 with 984 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 18:43 - Feb 28 by olympicdale |
I think your right with regards to higher league youngsters moving down the football league, it is much easier for non league players moving up the league, than released premier league youngsters moving down the football league ladder. They have so many people at a young age telling them how great they are etc, and they often find it tough to adapt to proper football, but Tutte has had a few years in the football league now, this cant be an excuse for him now. |
This gets better and better. Ok, let's have a recap. Andrew Tutte has never played consistently well because:
1.) he's been playing in a midfield three;
2.) he's not being played in a midfield two;
3.) he's been playing wide;
4.) he's not being played wide;
5.) he's been playing central midfield;
6.) he's not being played in central midfield;
7.) he's essentially a 'luxury player' (my personal 2nd best);
8.) he's not being playing behind the strikers;
9.) he's been wrapped in cotton wool as youngster (my personal 2nd best (a));
10.) he needs to move up the leauges (my personal 2nd best (b)).
11.) And finally, my numero uno, our eyes are deceiving us, he's actually been playing great because of a statistic that he's set up 25% of goals or something - end of discussion.
But rest assured, he's definately good enough, because once he either (choose from below - Olympicdale and NotEyreClue mix and match so don't be shy):
1.) plays in a midfield three;
2.) plays in a midfield two;
3.) plays wide;
4.) stops playing wide;
5.) plays in central midfield;
6.) stops playing in central midfield;
7.) is given a 'luxury player' role (whatever that is);
8.) plays behind the strikers;
9.) toughens up;
10.) moves up the leagues (love it).
11.) Or, just carries on his stat busting form.
he'll be awesome.
cue - I meant moving up the leagues generally not regarding Tutte he just prefers grannary bread and we give him wholemeal bread arguments. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:21 - Feb 28 with 970 views | olympicdale |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:10 - Feb 28 by BigDaveMyCock |
This gets better and better. Ok, let's have a recap. Andrew Tutte has never played consistently well because:
1.) he's been playing in a midfield three;
2.) he's not being played in a midfield two;
3.) he's been playing wide;
4.) he's not being played wide;
5.) he's been playing central midfield;
6.) he's not being played in central midfield;
7.) he's essentially a 'luxury player' (my personal 2nd best);
8.) he's not being playing behind the strikers;
9.) he's been wrapped in cotton wool as youngster (my personal 2nd best (a));
10.) he needs to move up the leauges (my personal 2nd best (b)).
11.) And finally, my numero uno, our eyes are deceiving us, he's actually been playing great because of a statistic that he's set up 25% of goals or something - end of discussion.
But rest assured, he's definately good enough, because once he either (choose from below - Olympicdale and NotEyreClue mix and match so don't be shy):
1.) plays in a midfield three;
2.) plays in a midfield two;
3.) plays wide;
4.) stops playing wide;
5.) plays in central midfield;
6.) stops playing in central midfield;
7.) is given a 'luxury player' role (whatever that is);
8.) plays behind the strikers;
9.) toughens up;
10.) moves up the leagues (love it).
11.) Or, just carries on his stat busting form.
he'll be awesome.
cue - I meant moving up the leagues generally not regarding Tutte he just prefers grannary bread and we give him wholemeal bread arguments. |
If you actually read the post right you will see that i don't mention Tutte persay only in the last part, instead, stating that it is sometimes much easier for players moving up the football league ladder, as they are accustomed to the rigors of the football league, than players released from premierleague sides, having to start lower league. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:23 - Feb 28 with 964 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:21 - Feb 28 by olympicdale |
If you actually read the post right you will see that i don't mention Tutte persay only in the last part, instead, stating that it is sometimes much easier for players moving up the football league ladder, as they are accustomed to the rigors of the football league, than players released from premierleague sides, having to start lower league. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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cue - I meant moving up the leagues generally not regarding Tutte he just prefers grannary bread and we give him wholemeal bread arguments. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:47 - Feb 28 with 939 views | 442Dale |
Was this really anywhere near the worst result or performance under Hill? Apologies if it's already been posted amongst the player analysis, but there have been plenty over the year to rival a game that would have ended 0-0 but for some wonder strikes. | |
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 20:02 - Feb 28 with 914 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Hillys worst game ever here? on 19:47 - Feb 28 by 442Dale |
Was this really anywhere near the worst result or performance under Hill? Apologies if it's already been posted amongst the player analysis, but there have been plenty over the year to rival a game that would have ended 0-0 but for some wonder strikes. |
After watching another abject display from some players, I wondered why the thread was titled 'Hillys worst game ever here?' Olympicdale has stated that it wasn't a criticism of Hill, but then why post a thread like that?
What was even more astounding was the numerous excuses (many of which are ridiculous and some border on the bizare - see my last post) that then came defending certain players who quite frankly should be playing better. It appears certain players are beyond reproach - namely Grimes and Tutte - whilst everything is about the manager. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hillys worst game ever here? on 20:05 - Feb 28 with 911 views | ColDale |
changing tact, was it the lowest attendance for a home league game under Hill? |  | | |
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