Koeman Talks Tough And Saints Fans Everywhere Applaud Friday, 8th Jan 2016 10:05 From what Ronald Koeman is saying it seems that a couple of his squad are not focused on Southampton Football Club and are having their heads turned by offers elsewhere.
When Victor Wanyama and Sadio Mane signed contracts at Southampton Football Club they were delighted to join because firstly they were getting their chance in the Premier League and secondly they were being offered a lot more money than they were getting at their then current employers.
Initially both players were the subject of debate amongst Saints supporters as to whether either player was worth the fee and the wages they were being paid, their early performances were far from convincing.
But had they turned out to be poor signings then Saints would, like in the case of Gaston Ramirez and Osvaldo not have been able to tear up their contracts or pay them something more in line with their actual worth to the team, no they would have had no choice but to keep paying them the agreed salary plus hefty bonus's, as we know from the aforementioned pair, neither was willing to leave and sign with another club due to the fact that they would get nowhere near the wages or perhaps a club of the stature of Saints.
So that is why it is very reasonable for Saints to be able to ask for a player under contract to fulfill that contract and not start demanding a move the moment his name is linked with so called big clubs and Spurs in the media.
Ronald Koeman and indeed the club have made their position quite clear from the start and since the start of the Katharina Liebherr era and the mass exodus that initially took place, it seems that they have made their stance towards when and for what they will sell a player very transparent.
Saints know that January transfer windows are overpriced and so seem determined not to do business in them unless the price is right, similarly they seem adamant that they will not sell players in it themselves unless it s in their interest.
They have made quite clear to all and sundry that this is the club policy and that is a good way of doing things, it spells it out to players just how Saints operate and what they can expect.
So the acts of petulance shown by Mane & Wanyama of late seem to indicate that they are both well aware of the policy, that they have had it reiterated to them and that they are not happy at being asked to simply honour a contract that they were both happy with six months ago till speculation reared its ugly head.
Speaking ahead of the Crystal Palace game Ronald Koeman said.
“It’s too easy to mention after the mistake of Sadio, or Victor’s second yellow, that the players are showing that they like to move,” Koeman said. “No, no, it’s too easy.
“It’s not like that and players know the position in the club and what we think about the players and there’s no reason to doubt about that.
“If there is any player thinking [like that], if his behaviour is not good, that makes easier for the player, then I put the player on the stands until the end of the contract.
“In my opinion it is not the way how you have to do your job as a football player.”
For Ronald Koeman to tackle the situation publicly and make a bold statement perhaps shows that there is an issue with both mane & Wanyama, the Dutch manager is clearly fuming and showing that he is not a man to be trifled with.
He is by speaking out, hardening the club's stance and letting the supporters know that this is not the club of May 2014 when certain ex players took advantage of a club in a transitional period, but a club who now have their strategy very much in place and are now willing to stick to their guns.
In fact this is a very rare moment in football for a club to make a stance like this public, it is provocative to the players in question and usually football clubs try and make players happy by cosseting them rather than threatening and it perhaps shows that although it is only inference that both players actions at Norwich last week could be more than just an innocent mistake, that deep down the club could feel that there is a lot more substance to that theory than they would like to admit.
But if he is wielding the stick in one hand, he is offering the carrot in the other by immediately making it clear that all the club want is the two players to fulfill their contracts.
“Mane is not in a different situation now to when it was last week. He is a player of Southampton. He likes to play for Southampton. He is not for sale,” said Koeman.
“We spoke to Sadio, of course. I punished him because we have rules in the team. You have to confirm to those rules.
“He was late. It was a big mistake. He makes his excuse for everybody and that’s now behind and the rest is internal discussions about how we have to handle this kind of situations.
“He will start on Saturday, no problem.”
Of course Saints would prefer both players to stay, with Mane the player still as 2 1/2 years left on his deal, the club are not under any immediate pressure to sell otherwise see his value drop, with Wanyama it is different, the reality is that if he doesn't sign a new deal between now and the summer then he will depart St Mary's in the next transfer window, this is part and parcel of the modern game, sometimes it works in your favour, sometimes it doesn't.
Koeman also revealed that Les Reed is in discussion with Victor Wanyama about a new contract and those talks remain on going, of course it will be difficult for Saints to persuade him to sign a new deal with the media telling him that this club and that club are willing to pay him big money for his services, but sometimes reality is different and he might decide his future is better with Saints.
What is happening now though perhaps gives supporters an insight at what goes on week in week out, year in year out at football clubs, a year ago Nathaniel Clyne was in the same position as Wanyama, contract talks were ongoing with Saints and he was clearly through his agent also receiving offers from elsewhere. But Saints made their position clear as to when they would sell him and Clyne accepted that and there was no insinuation that he was dong anything than his best for Saints before his move to Liverpool in the summer, both club ad player knew what the situation was.
So Saints supporters applaud and completely back Ronald Koeman and the club in standing up and making it quite clear what they are prepared to do, yes they have made a rod for their own back but Saints supporters want to see them stick to their guns and show today's pampered players that contracts are two way things and that both sides need to realise that and fulfill their obligations.
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Alehouse added 10:28 - Jan 8
I agree, it's great to hear Koemen asserting himself. Football before business, the club's interests before the player's. That's how it should be. There was a very well observed article in the Guardian this morning by Jacob Steinberg about Mane, Wanyama and recent departees from the club. He makes the point that even if Mane did go to Man Utd, he wouldn't necessarily thrive there. He also comments that it is most unlikely that Wanyama would be chased by a top club given his "lack of composure on the ball". Nicely understated!! | | |
saintsnutcase added 10:42 - Jan 8
Nick I generally agree with you but Clyne was rubbish in the second half of last season. He wasn't anywhere near 100%. The same will happen with Mane and Wanyama. Our main problem at present is not the sales of top players, which are inevitable. It is the failure of the academy to produce an outstanding player for a couple of years. And recruitment which has not been that good either. | | |
jmsaint added 10:54 - Jan 8
Can people stop saying the academy isn't producing atm. The fact is from each crop of youngsters you get maybe one or two who will break into the team at 18-19, and then a couple more who might break through later. We were lucky to get slightly more than that over the last few years thanks to increased opportunities in the lower leagues. However from our current crop, from the early breakthroughs (shaw, chambers and jwp) 2 left after a matter of months in the team, so there has been a bit of a gap. We are now seeing reed, and hopefully the likes of Seager starting to push into the fold. It is a fact of life that many of the current u21s will never make the first team. 5-10 years ago 99% of fans would never have heard of them, but watching th u21 games on YouTube you notice them more so when they disappear or move to a lower league club everyone thinks the academy has failed. That is not the case. If our players hadn't been sold we would have 4-5 starters from the academy atm. What other club could say that. | | |
SaintNick added 10:58 - Jan 8
I dont think Clyne was any different in standard in the 2nd half of the season than anyone else in the squad, but my point was that he didnt whinge or show petulant just got on with the job. jmsaint is spot on with regard to the academy | | |
Dan_P326 added 11:11 - Jan 8
"Big clubs and Spurs" , I like the dig. Well said Koeman, exactly what I wanted to hear! Of course if we start getting offered stupid amounts of money for these players we'd have to consider accepting but until we have the players should butt out and get on with their contracted jobs. | | |
BaselSaint added 11:24 - Jan 8
It seems obvious to me that money is the main factor in luring these players away therefore we must re-examine the nature of their contracts and consider building in performance related payments to motivate them to achieve their full salary. Passes completed / Goal Assists / Goals / Goals not conceded / Wins / Personal Discipline /League position / Fitness levels (notwithstanding injury) etc. should be factored in. Hit them where it hurts and I guarantee you will see their performances magically transformed and rejuvenated. | | |
DPeps added 11:27 - Jan 8
To repeat what I've said before on this: Mane has not said he wants a move. He turned up late for a meeting and the media and saints fans have pounced on this as conclusive evidence that he's unhappy. It'd be better if we didn't get fixated on this issue as all these stories don't help the team. Wanyama is a different issue as I believe he has been quoted in the past saying he wants to play for a 'big' team. Jmsaint is correct about the academy, but the problem is that we sold the prize assets without allowing them to contribute to our success. At the moment we're producing players for wealthier clubs. Yeah we're getting money but buying good replacements is not easy as this season shows | | |
mesquita added 11:31 - Jan 8
Today the academy successes go into the 1st team squad, the "almosts" go out on loan to get game practice to bring them on. But we continue to hang on to academy graduates who will not make it, they need to be moved on to promote younger players in the academy who should be given their chance earlier and the players who do not develop on loan also need to be moved on, not come back into the ranks blocking the progresso of younger players | | |
SaintJez added 11:48 - Jan 8
I think it is fair comment to say we could expect more from the academy. It's clearly not an easy task but we don't seem to have anyone really pushing hard for a first team spot these days and those going out on loan to the lower leagues aren't covering themselves in glory either. Is a fraction disappointing but if we keep doing the right things in scouting and training methods, then we will unearth a few more gems in the years to come - it's just we could do with it now! | | |
SaintBrock added 13:28 - Jan 8
Nick, Koeman said no such thing and I think you are completely wrong in your assertions. You are too gullible mate and too wrapped up in all the press gossip pages. Why didn't you pick up on his comment that Les is talking to Vic's agent about a new long term contract when his existing one runs out in 18 months? Why always look for the bad news? | | |
BoondockSaint added 13:30 - Jan 8
Just once I would like to see a headline about a quality player on another team "having his head turned by Saints". Mesquita has it spot on: If wages were based on performance, players would play harder, fight for starting spots an be afraid of losing or "sitting in the stands" because they wouldn't get paid Sometimes I wonder about the academy: are we just running it for the benefit of other teams? Would we be better off scrapping it and using the money to pay higher wages, or buy players, if they work out fine, if not dump them on lower league teams and buy again? That's the system teams above us in the standings. The press always goes on about Saints having a better academy than the big clubs-that's because the big clubs don't need to, they just swoop in and buy our players after we have spent time and money, and done all the hard work for them. | | |
IWOZTHERE added 16:36 - Jan 8
Some people are never satisfied! ..>>>....... I applaud RK/the boards principled 'stand' but think they've rather backed themselves into a corner over Wanyama. IF we get a decent offer I think it would be in the club's interests to let him go. As we know, he will be worth less in the Summer, but if we retain him, are we sure the real VW will turn up for the rest of the season and help us or will he continue to be uncommitted and his value further diminish? Romeu's a 'shoe-in' Sell VW and strengthen where needed. | | |
SanMarco added 16:49 - Jan 8
My reaction to this is that Ron is talking to the Board in a very public way. He is saying that it will be the board's fault if continued sales lead to lower league positions, not his. He knows full well that if key players go in the summer he will have to 'rebuild' yet again for his final season and that will effect the final verdict on his 3 years in England. He wants everyone to know that it won't be his fault. He is also in essence saying he will resign if VW and or Mane go this month. His comments about the academy also suggest that the Board will have to put their hands in their pockets and buy some players instead of expecting the academy to do the job. | | |
saintmark1976 added 17:13 - Jan 8
Sorry, but neither Mane or Wanyama are currently top flight Premiership players. The Guardian correspondent hits the nail on the head in pointing out that Mane has only scored 13 goals in 50 appearances for us. 3 of those goals were against Aston Villa who just avoided relegation last term and are as good as down already this. Wanyama is a great athlete but struggles to hit a barn door with a banjo when it comes to passing.His goal scoring record is also very poor. If any of the so called big clubs are prepared to pay silly money for either of them then more fool them in my opinion.We are still mid table and if the proceeds of their sale were spent sensibility then I am sure that we can obtain another 16 points necessary to stay up. | | |
IanRC added 17:56 - Jan 8
Agree with SaintBrock and the first part at least of DPeps post, you do seem to be trying these players without anything other than the usual dodgy media reports from the like of the Mail. I see Sky is reporting that Wanyama has committed to Saints tonight. Personally I still think that dropping Mane was the wrong move last weekend, there are other ways of punishing him for being late to a meeting without punishing the club and supporters too, but RK has not said that he is agitating for a move. | | |
BoondockSaint added 19:54 - Jan 8
I have to disagree Saint Mark, using that logic, Rooney and Hazard are not top flight players. It's a team sport and no matter how good a player is, if the rest are crap, it affects their game. Mane has lofted loads of great passes in only to see Long make a meal of it. Wanyama's game is muscling players off the ball and giving it to someone who can make a pass. But we sold Scheiderlain.. That's like saying George Best wasn't world class because he never got to the World Cup. What I would like to see is Saints grabbing good players from crap teams below us. | | |
saintmark1976 added 08:32 - Jan 9
With respect Boondocks if you read my post again you will see that I use the word currently in describing their abilities. Using the same definition then I think most people would agree that Rooney and Hazard fall into the same category.After all,neither are setting the world alight at present are they? My own opinion which I concede may not be worth a lot is that both Mane and Wanyama will not improve should they be purchased by a so called bigger club. They are at the limit of their abilities and will not get better who ever the players around them are.On that basis let them go for silly money and as you say spend the money on good players from teams below us. In regard to George Best. I am not sure how he fits into our differing views on Mane and Wanyama but would agree that he was a wonderful talent.I remember seeing him at the Dell for an evening game against Man Utd. He was simply unplayable and it was a privilege to have been there even if from memory we lost 1-4. | | |
BoondockSaint added 23:24 - Jan 9
Hi SaintMark-sorry this is a late reply (I seem to have more spare time at work than I do at home!) Yeah, I know, after I posted, I thought "Rooney?" Maybe not the best example. But I was really thinking of price tags that he and Hazard would get. I'm just saying with the team playing bad (as are ManU and Chelsea) all players numbers drop. Mane is off his game at the moment (hopefully) but can you imagine him playing up front with Aguero or Ozil? In referring to Best I meant that even the top players' need some supporting players in order to play up to their potential. Yeah, George Best, accept for the booze issue, that was the life we all dream of.......and now you tell me he could play football as well?? Actually, I am jealous you saw him play live. That's like seeing the Beatles live (don't tell me you did that as well!!) | | |
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Blogs 31 bloggersKnees-up Mother Brown #19 by wessex_exile February, and the U’s enter the most pivotal month of the season. Six games in just four weeks, with four of them against sides also in the bottom six. By March we should be either well clear of danger, or even deeper in the sh*t. With Danny Cowley’s U’s still unbeaten, and looking stronger game on game, I’m sure it’ll be the former, but first we have to do our bit to consign Steve ‘Sour Grapes’ Cotterill’s FGR back to non-league. After our shambolic 5-0 defeat at New Lawn, nothing would give me greater pleasure, even if it meant losing one of my closest awaydays in the process. What’s the excuse going to be today Steve – shocking pitch, faking head injuries, Mexican banditry or some other bit of sour-grapery bullsh*t? Fulham Polls |