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Was shot 50 years ago today and I can't believe we haven't had a conspiraloony threads about grassy knolls, CIA cover ups, mafia hits, Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't hit a cows @rse with shovel etc.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
It is naive to think that men throughout history,with absolute power,are not capable of such acts with a consequential cover up afterwards.
Personally,I don t think Oswald did it alone with a mail order rifle as has been perpetuated.even the official enquiry hinted was wrong.
The same day Kennedy was assassinated,Lyndon b. Johnson was sworn in as president. Just two days later ALL of Kennedy's policies on Vietnam were reversed. A new resolution was immediately put in place to the Joint Chiefs of Staff to escalate the war in Vietnam.
Just a coincidence.? You decide
[Post edited 22 Nov 2013 13:05]
Nice bit of revisionism there, do we actually have any evidence that JFK was against any war in Vietnam to the extent that the head of the FBI would want to kill him? Everything I've read/seen about it says that JFK was very much involved in Vietnam and deployed tens of thousands of troops there.
Let's say for argument's sake that you're right and he was bumped off by J Edgar, if the powers that be are able to cover up such a plot why do such a messy job with such a large margin for error where any one of the many bystanders could've foiled the plot. Surely if it was carried out by pros it would've been done much more cleanly, with as few people as possible involved and not in front of a crowd of hundreds.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
And the vice president being sworn in as president more or less as soon as the president is confirmed to be dead is kind of what's supposed to happen. That's why he's the vice president. It's in the constitution and everything.
And the vice president being sworn in as president more or less as soon as the president is confirmed to be dead is kind of what's supposed to happen. That's why he's the vice president. It's in the constitution and everything.
Now I don't make any claim to be any sort of an expert on the Kennedy assassination but its a racing certainty that he wasn't killed because he partook of The Tridentine Mass every once in a while!
That whole Kennedy clan was a hydra of criminality. That its most prominent head was cut off wouldn't, I don't believe, come as that much of surprise to the Intelligence community of the '60s. Nor his passing much lamented in those same quarters.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2013 17:52]
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
Considering the US buildup in Vietnam was basically started by Kennedy it's somewhat odd to claim that he was assassinated because he wanted to end it.
It's possible that Oswald had an accomplice who "got away with it", but the whole Oliver Stone esque conspiracy bollocks that has grown up around it is laughable.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
When Kennedy first took office there was a small number of US military in Vietnam. Mainly advisors.
His policy was that by 1965 the troops that had been put in should be withdrawn to 1961 levels again.
Unfortunately,there is a lot of money and power to be made from war. No way were the elite rich banking,military families going to miss out on this opportunity.they were dismayed and hated him for even thinking such a thing and ruining their plans. His Vice President Lyndon Johnson unfortunately was well connected to these families,he and Kennedy hated each other,Johnson was like a Donald Rumsfeld of his time. When Kennedy was assassinated in 1963,his policies on nam were quickly reversed when Johnson took office.
As a result 28,000 young Americans lost their lives and many times that figure were never the same again...all for nothing,but a lot of people got really,mega rich from it
In the meantime, Kennedy had created a lot of enemies.he fired the top people in the FBI and CIA . He refused to give the Israelis nuclear weapons.he had a big argument with the Catholic Church and refused to carry out their orders. He openly talked about breaking up the corrupt CIA in public.
His brother Bobby Kennedy in the meantime set about confronting big organised crime and in particular the Mafia.
So the stage was ultimately set,something had to give.both died young...the real truth is out there somewhere and maybe we ll never find it as no one agrees on this subject.
Each to their own to make up their own mind I think...
[Post edited 23 Nov 2013 4:23]
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Here is JFK movie director himself Oliver Stone, a veteran of Vietnam and well respected Hollywood figure explaining how the government explanation of events that day was a cover up. The vast majority of people 50 years on in poll after poll are convinced there was a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy.
We are lucky to have many free thinking,high profile ,brave individuals who have the balls to give their opinion even at the risk of damaging their career in the name of truth and justice.they are not afraid to think outside the box and don t believe everything the television tells them is the truth.
Too many people these days afraid to speak up for fear of being ridiculed or looking foolish.
This video shows how it would be impossible using the same rifle to fire off three shots in 6 seconds
[Post edited 23 Nov 2013 4:54]
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
One of my personal heroes Karl Popper is probably the leading intellectual critic of the concept of conspiracy theories, which he has thought about a great deal due to the link with his philosophical criticism of historicism.
Basically he regards the 'conspiracy theory of society' as a modern and secularised version of primitive religious superstition.
In the past the gods - for example in Greek tragedies - were considered able to minutely control the actions of men, say by making them go to war or fall in love with their mother. Today the gods have been ditched, but are now popularly replaced by conspiracies of powerful shadowy men and organisations, who are so and devious and supremely cunning that they can shape events and the minds of men exactly as they wish.
It is the latter bit he specifically takes issue with, because real life events are shaped by almost infinite social factors that the dedicated conspirator can not possible anticipate. Further, Popper presents brilliant arguments why many of the conspirators actions are likely to directly go against the aims of conspiracy itself, only partly due to unintended consequences.
In effect he doesn't doubt that conspiracies exist, merely that they are as a rule successful as is surprisingly commonly believed.
However, one area he specifically states that conspiracies are more likely to be found is as counter conspiracies against non-existent imaginary conspiracies. He gives the example of of Nazism which as a Jewish refugee from Austria he regards as a counter-conspiracy against a non-existing Jewish conspiracy.
Now fast forward to America in the early 1960s in the aftermath of Macarthyism and widespread public hysteria about national security and the commie threat. Extremely high ranking officers in the US military and intelligence communities were rabid, foaming at the mouth anti-communists. Meanwhile some, like the the legendary head of CIA counter intelligence Jim Angleton, chief detector of counter-conspiracies against the US and well known accuser of numerous political leaders as Soviet moles, were certifiable.
In this environment JFK is backed into a corner over Cuba, which the Russians were forced into due to the overwhelming superiority of the US nuclear arsenal. As a consequence of the crisis the US in effect abandoned the Monroe Doctrine, which had been a cornerstone of US foreign and security policy for over 100 years.
Even many moderates in those times saw that as a fundamental betrayal, and it is a minor intellectual leap to go from betrayer to traitor. Personally I don't for a second believe the lone gunman theory, and as I see it anybody who dismisses any other possibility out of hand simply doesn't understand the US at the time.
One of my personal heroes Karl Popper is probably the leading intellectual critic of the concept of conspiracy theories, which he has thought about a great deal due to the link with his philosophical criticism of historicism.
Basically he regards the 'conspiracy theory of society' as a modern and secularised version of primitive religious superstition.
In the past the gods - for example in Greek tragedies - were considered able to minutely control the actions of men, say by making them go to war or fall in love with their mother. Today the gods have been ditched, but are now popularly replaced by conspiracies of powerful shadowy men and organisations, who are so and devious and supremely cunning that they can shape events and the minds of men exactly as they wish.
It is the latter bit he specifically takes issue with, because real life events are shaped by almost infinite social factors that the dedicated conspirator can not possible anticipate. Further, Popper presents brilliant arguments why many of the conspirators actions are likely to directly go against the aims of conspiracy itself, only partly due to unintended consequences.
In effect he doesn't doubt that conspiracies exist, merely that they are as a rule successful as is surprisingly commonly believed.
However, one area he specifically states that conspiracies are more likely to be found is as counter conspiracies against non-existent imaginary conspiracies. He gives the example of of Nazism which as a Jewish refugee from Austria he regards as a counter-conspiracy against a non-existing Jewish conspiracy.
Now fast forward to America in the early 1960s in the aftermath of Macarthyism and widespread public hysteria about national security and the commie threat. Extremely high ranking officers in the US military and intelligence communities were rabid, foaming at the mouth anti-communists. Meanwhile some, like the the legendary head of CIA counter intelligence Jim Angleton, chief detector of counter-conspiracies against the US and well known accuser of numerous political leaders as Soviet moles, were certifiable.
In this environment JFK is backed into a corner over Cuba, which the Russians were forced into due to the overwhelming superiority of the US nuclear arsenal. As a consequence of the crisis the US in effect abandoned the Monroe Doctrine, which had been a cornerstone of US foreign and security policy for over 100 years.
Even many moderates in those times saw that as a fundamental betrayal, and it is a minor intellectual leap to go from betrayer to traitor. Personally I don't for a second believe the lone gunman theory, and as I see it anybody who dismisses any other possibility out of hand simply doesn't understand the US at the time.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.
I'll tell you something that may have you smiling through gritted teeth. Popper was Thatcher's mentor too. She used to give copies of Popper's Poverty of Historicism as gifts to visiting leaders and used to take a stack of them to distribute at summits.
I first read Popper when I was about sixteen, I'd imagine. I knew that he'd given my Greek heroes of the time a good shoeing in The Open Society and was curious to see how much of a dent he would put into my own conceptions. Quite a healthy process that.
PS: As regards Jim Angleton have you read much about Operation Gladio?
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
I'll tell you something that may have you smiling through gritted teeth. Popper was Thatcher's mentor too. She used to give copies of Popper's Poverty of Historicism as gifts to visiting leaders and used to take a stack of them to distribute at summits.
I first read Popper when I was about sixteen, I'd imagine. I knew that he'd given my Greek heroes of the time a good shoeing in The Open Society and was curious to see how much of a dent he would put into my own conceptions. Quite a healthy process that.
PS: As regards Jim Angleton have you read much about Operation Gladio?
I was well aware that Popper is popular in some circles on the right, but their problem - as usual -is they don't get much beyond the headlines and miss all the subtleties. Hayek is in reality much more up their street ;-)
I haven't read Oeration Gladio; instead my info about Angleton comes mainly from 'Cold Warrior ' by Tom Mangold -- truly frightening stuff!
I was well aware that Popper is popular in some circles on the right, but their problem - as usual -is they don't get much beyond the headlines and miss all the subtleties. Hayek is in reality much more up their street ;-)
I haven't read Oeration Gladio; instead my info about Angleton comes mainly from 'Cold Warrior ' by Tom Mangold -- truly frightening stuff!
[Post edited 23 Nov 2013 9:32]
Buckley's Spytime is great read too. You'd enjoy that.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
Lets just get the word "conspiracy"into perspective here.
It means a group of people conspiring to carry out an act. Thats all. In criminal law at least two people must be involved to carry our an act of malice for it to be recognized as a conspiracy.
So if some people believe there was more than one individual involved who conspired to harm JFK then that is a conspiracy theory,the process of writing about such theories is known as investigative journalism.
In many polls over the years,the majority of people thought there was a conspiracy or plot against JFK.
Conspiracy (criminal) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act must also have been undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense
[Post edited 23 Nov 2013 16:02]
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Lets just get the word "conspiracy"into perspective here.
It means a group of people conspiring to carry out an act. Thats all. In criminal law at least two people must be involved to carry our an act of malice for it to be recognized as a conspiracy.
So if some people believe there was more than one individual involved who conspired to harm JFK then that is a conspiracy theory,the process of writing about such theories is known as investigative journalism.
In many polls over the years,the majority of people thought there was a conspiracy or plot against JFK.
Conspiracy (criminal) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime at some time in the future. Criminal law in some countries or for some conspiracies may require that at least one overt act must also have been undertaken in furtherance of that agreement, to constitute an offense
[Post edited 23 Nov 2013 16:02]
"Investigative journalism"
The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they don't employ the principles of Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor and end up creating wildly complex and complicated plots, blindly accepting the spurious evidence that supports their position (more often than not lifted from another conspiracy theory).
The more people that get added to a plot the more layers of complexity get added which in turn adds to the probability of something going wrong. For example a secret service/FBI/CIA conspirator at one of the secret JFK assassination committee meetings saying, "sorry, why are we attempting to kill the President? And why are we doing it in such a needlessly complicated way that even the most amateur of investigative journalists with the shoddiest research methods will be able to tell that we did it?"
In roughly 8 seconds LHO fired 3 rifle shots from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository building. The first shot missed completely, hitting a kerb that sent debris into the face of a bystander.
The second shot, the so called "magic bullet" hits JFK in the back passing through him into the governor sat in front of him.
The third shot hits JFK in the back of the head blowing his brains out of the front right of his head.
How do I know for sure?
1. The Zapruder film shows JFK's brains getting blown out of the front right side of his head after being hit in the back. If there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll then his brain would've gone out of the other side of his head.
2. The overwhelming physical evidence that places LHO at the snipers nest and his actions following the assassination including gunning down a policeman in broad daylight.
3. It's the simplest and therefore most likely scenario.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they don't employ the principles of Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor and end up creating wildly complex and complicated plots, blindly accepting the spurious evidence that supports their position (more often than not lifted from another conspiracy theory).
The more people that get added to a plot the more layers of complexity get added which in turn adds to the probability of something going wrong. For example a secret service/FBI/CIA conspirator at one of the secret JFK assassination committee meetings saying, "sorry, why are we attempting to kill the President? And why are we doing it in such a needlessly complicated way that even the most amateur of investigative journalists with the shoddiest research methods will be able to tell that we did it?"
In roughly 8 seconds LHO fired 3 rifle shots from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository building. The first shot missed completely, hitting a kerb that sent debris into the face of a bystander.
The second shot, the so called "magic bullet" hits JFK in the back passing through him into the governor sat in front of him.
The third shot hits JFK in the back of the head blowing his brains out of the front right of his head.
How do I know for sure?
1. The Zapruder film shows JFK's brains getting blown out of the front right side of his head after being hit in the back. If there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll then his brain would've gone out of the other side of his head.
2. The overwhelming physical evidence that places LHO at the snipers nest and his actions following the assassination including gunning down a policeman in broad daylight.
3. It's the simplest and therefore most likely scenario.
And on top of all that, Stephen Kind wrote a novel based on the entire premise that Oswald killed Kennedy. Good enough for me.
Bill hicks on the Kennedy ASSASINATION. How the whole thing of the single gunman and magic bullet just does nt add up...sorry the video is a bit graphic in the end.
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Bill hicks on the Kennedy ASSASINATION. How the whole thing of the single gunman and magic bullet just does nt add up...sorry the video is a bit graphic in the end.
Love Bill Hicks but I'm sure there are better videos you could have used to support your argument for the JFK conspiracy than a five minute stand-up routine.
Love Bill Hicks but I'm sure there are better videos you could have used to support your argument for the JFK conspiracy than a five minute stand-up routine.
Bill Hicks had a brilliant mind and was such a funny guy.
For this type of forum I m trying to keep it light hearted.next I was going to put up the cast of Seinfeld and their sketch outlining how ridiculous the official story is.
I could be here all week posting more serious scientific credible evidence especially about the ballistics of the subject.
But alas,as I seem to be the only one against many it s best if I keep it simple and humorous.
I m glad we re having a proper exchange of views and it has nt descended into the usual ....
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
Bill hicks on the Kennedy ASSASINATION. How the whole thing of the single gunman and magic bullet just does nt add up...sorry the video is a bit graphic in the end.
A nice little clip from Penn & Teller's Bullsh!t explaining why the second gunman is bullsh!t.
As for the magic bullet
This is wrong for many reasons, this video explains why.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
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