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Football has no interest in trying to appeal to legacy fans anymore, it increasingly seems like it actively tries to make itself less appealing to us. It's sad but I'm starting to take the hint.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
whether you like the flag or not I don't think it's up to Nike or the FA to re design it to something they prefer
But it is up to Nike and the FA to re design the England kit as they see fit. Whether it should be is another question.
The majority of England shirts are terrible. It's the exception that we produce a good design. Also, historically the flag has not featured or been an integral part of the kit design.
No-one cared back in 2012 Dave when the colours of a flag on a kit were altered, because the world we lived in then wasn't as mental as the one we live in now is.
(Gawd I'd love to go back to 2012, what a summer...)
This was very much a thought I had. although others say there was a fuss I don't remember it, and always quite like it.
Also, the cops have been at it for a while now. Can't remember when I first noticed it. And again, I've always 'got it'. I expect there have been complaints...
But it is up to Nike and the FA to re design the England kit as they see fit. Whether it should be is another question.
The majority of England shirts are terrible. It's the exception that we produce a good design. Also, historically the flag has not featured or been an integral part of the kit design.
[Post edited 22 Mar 12:58]
But if you decide to stick a little flag on the collar, what exactly is the point of making up a completely different flag and then sticking that on?! If the shirt didn't have a flag on the collar, no-one would have cared. I'm not fussed about it, but it just seems like a strange decision to make when it was inevitably going to wind-up a lot of people who care more about these things than I do. Either have the proper flag or don't bother.
PS. The British Rail logo is fu cking magic, isn't it.
But if you decide to stick a little flag on the collar, what exactly is the point of making up a completely different flag and then sticking that on?! If the shirt didn't have a flag on the collar, no-one would have cared. I'm not fussed about it, but it just seems like a strange decision to make when it was inevitably going to wind-up a lot of people who care more about these things than I do. Either have the proper flag or don't bother.
PS. The British Rail logo is fu cking magic, isn't it.
[Post edited 22 Mar 13:07]
The point of it is to pander to the woke crowd, just like everything does these days. From Reality TV culture (Where that stuff belongs) to football, motorsport, combat sports (Where it clearly doesn't) - The message is clear - We're in charge here, not you.
Why don't more of us notice and resist it? That bit I struggle with.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
But if you decide to stick a little flag on the collar, what exactly is the point of making up a completely different flag and then sticking that on?! If the shirt didn't have a flag on the collar, no-one would have cared. I'm not fussed about it, but it just seems like a strange decision to make when it was inevitably going to wind-up a lot of people who care more about these things than I do. Either have the proper flag or don't bother.
PS. The British Rail logo is fu cking magic, isn't it.
[Post edited 22 Mar 13:07]
I don't think that just because some people will get upset is a good enough reason to not try something different. It's a design element and the colours aren't completely random either. It's fair to argue the quality of the design and IMO I don't think it's very good. Unfortunately it's not a process built on consensus.
I don't like the England flag, it's ugly and isn't a traditional symbol of our heritage.
I don't think that just because some people will get upset is a good enough reason to not try something different. It's a design element and the colours aren't completely random either. It's fair to argue the quality of the design and IMO I don't think it's very good. Unfortunately it's not a process built on consensus.
I don't like the England flag, it's ugly and isn't a traditional symbol of our heritage.
[Post edited 22 Mar 13:20]
What country has a flag that is a traditional symbol of their heritage? There are plenty of countries that only designed their flag in the last 100 years - Are they all fakes? English association with the St George Cross goes back 1000 years.
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
The point of it is to pander to the woke crowd, just like everything does these days. From Reality TV culture (Where that stuff belongs) to football, motorsport, combat sports (Where it clearly doesn't) - The message is clear - We're in charge here, not you.
Why don't more of us notice and resist it? That bit I struggle with.
What country has a flag that is a traditional symbol of their heritage? There are plenty of countries that only designed their flag in the last 100 years - Are they all fakes? English association with the St George Cross goes back 1000 years.
The issue isn't the authenticity/tradition of such an underwhelming flag, but what motivates such strong feelings. I think the strength of feeling some people have is a reflection of a deep rooted sense of insecurity.
Also, in the context of football there hasn't been such a strong association with the flag.
The difference between us and other nations is that other nations seem to have a bit more fun with it whereas England and England fans are utterly joyless.
The issue isn't the authenticity/tradition of such an underwhelming flag, but what motivates such strong feelings. I think the strength of feeling some people have is a reflection of a deep rooted sense of insecurity.
Also, in the context of football there hasn't been such a strong association with the flag.
The difference between us and other nations is that other nations seem to have a bit more fun with it whereas England and England fans are utterly joyless.
Yeah, I'm not really bothered about the flag being on the shirt either, although changing the colours thing is something I doubt they would do in many other countries.
England fans joyless? Really? That's not my experience of following England - Bit drunk and violent sometimes but joyless? Not in my experience
Edit, also why underwhelming? Not many flags I'm impressed by - Union Jack is up there - US not bad - But vast majority of flags are just different coloured stripes. France, Ireland, Italy.....Same flag in different colours. So what?
[Post edited 22 Mar 13:55]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
But if you decide to stick a little flag on the collar, what exactly is the point of making up a completely different flag and then sticking that on?! If the shirt didn't have a flag on the collar, no-one would have cared. I'm not fussed about it, but it just seems like a strange decision to make when it was inevitably going to wind-up a lot of people who care more about these things than I do. Either have the proper flag or don't bother.
PS. The British Rail logo is fu cking magic, isn't it.
[Post edited 22 Mar 13:07]
Quite. Emily Thornberry, who has learned from experience to choose her words carefully on this subject, makes the very reasonable point that it would be inconceivable for an Irish team to change the colours of their flag on a national kit. Clearly these symbols have a powerful emotional significance for some people and none at all for others. What boggles the mind is that the latter group are putting forward their remixed version as a symbol of “unity”. They have to be seriously deluded to believe love of Nike design unites people more firmly than national identity (whatever the rights and wrongs of the latter), but I suppose that is possible in brand-world.
Yeah, I'm not really bothered about the flag being on the shirt either, although changing the colours thing is something I doubt they would do in many other countries.
England fans joyless? Really? That's not my experience of following England - Bit drunk and violent sometimes but joyless? Not in my experience
Edit, also why underwhelming? Not many flags I'm impressed by - Union Jack is up there - US not bad - But vast majority of flags are just different coloured stripes. France, Ireland, Italy.....Same flag in different colours. So what?
[Post edited 22 Mar 13:55]
You might well be right that other nations wouldn't do it, but does that mean we shouldn't?
It's underwhelming because from a design perspective I don't think it lends itself well to football kits. Italy have chosen the Azzurri blue for their sports colour and France and Ireland draw upon a single colour from their flags which IMO are better for designing a nice kit.
You might well be right that other nations wouldn't do it, but does that mean we shouldn't?
It's underwhelming because from a design perspective I don't think it lends itself well to football kits. Italy have chosen the Azzurri blue for their sports colour and France and Ireland draw upon a single colour from their flags which IMO are better for designing a nice kit.
Agree, I really like the Union Jack.
Well, to discover whether we should or shouldn't, it'd be good to first understand the reasons why other countries wouldn't - Since we've lost so much confidence in ourselves that we daren't assert this kind of thing on our own behalf. Do those reasons apply to us? Well, we're nothing special, just another fckin Nation state at the end of the day, so why shouldn't they?
If the FA decided we're wearing Royal blue from now on, to pay homage to our Royal family - I would be fine with that btw - Would you accept that? Would the links to the Royalty not put you off?
I'll finish by just saying - And I know I'm in a tiny minority - I actually think England should compete as GB in football. I get why Rugby needs separate England and Wales teams, football don't. The Union Jack can be played with and remixed as much as they like - That's the whole purpose of that flag.
[Post edited 22 Mar 14:23]
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
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