| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? 11:40 - Nov 6 with 33943 views | ladyjack |
Anyone voting Conservative must be mad and or selfish, the majority of people are politically illiterate due to a lack of interest in politics and that many people are selfish and that lots are brainwashed by the media and press but anyone voting Conservative will be helping to continue doing lasting damage to the country and i'm a so called Welsh nationalist where in a perverse way a Conservative majority would be the best possible result in helping to break up the UK so that an independent Wales would then have the opportunity of voting in a party that distributes wealth more equally, I wouldn't want to see even more and more extreme right wing policies enforced on the people. |  | | |  |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 09:58 - Nov 8 with 1881 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 12:43 - Nov 7 by jackrmee |
I disagree.
It might be marketed as the best country, but certainly doesn't feel like it. |
We have food banks
Not just a dozen or so
Food banks where people who work need to go .
Hurrah for the uk government |  |
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 10:07 - Nov 8 with 1865 views | Lohengrin |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 09:58 - Nov 8 by oh_tommy_tommy |
We have food banks
Not just a dozen or so
Food banks where people who work need to go .
Hurrah for the uk government |
You seem surprised, Tom?
In 1979 when planning was ditched and everybody was gulled into believing that faith for the future was best placed on a roulette wheel’s spin. Did you think it was guaranteed to come to rest on black? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 10:19 - Nov 8 with 1853 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:58 - Nov 7 by Kilkennyjack |
No trouble in the north of Ireland for 20 years.
Did you just wake up from the 1970s ? |
Have you just woken from a coma? The Republicans are still dishing out punishments beating in NI and still planting bombs. |  |
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 13:44 - Nov 8 with 1793 views | Legend83 |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 22:05 - Nov 7 by LeonWasGod |
No, and lot of wealth is tied up too.
Apple eh? Worth a $trillion and they're fighting a $14m tax bill. That's 0.000014%.
That'd be like one of us owning a typical house, maybe having a hundred £k put by in a pension pot, quibbling over a tax bill of £4.20 on our total worth. I suspect it's just about affordale for Apple when they're holding $252+ billion dolars of profits tax free off shore.
A bit like someone on an average salary being told to pay 40p annual income tax bill and them trying to get out of it.
Also, without wishing to sound like a Corbynite, their wealth is a by-product of their workers. Yes, the ideas and entrepreneurship lead the way, and need to be nurtured and encouraged for the sake of jobs, but the workers make their wealth.
Hmph. |
But that's a circular argument no? Chicken and egg spring to mind.
No idea, no business, no workers. No wealth, no additional investment, no additional workers etc etc etc.
What people forget is yes billionaires exist as a by-product of their successful businesses but this trickles down and makes everyone "more wealthy" which for me as a conservative (note the lower case C) is the ideal.
Take Amazon - they are the devil in many eyes because they avoid tax and yes it makes Jeff Bezos a billionaire, but it does so by delivering value (cheaper products, more easily available) to millions of people. Those people are wealthier (the proper definition) for receiving that value. The same applies to Google, Walmart, Apple and so on - they make their key staff rich beyond most of our dreams, but the benefit is that over the last few decades we have all become wealthier - our needs and desires are met more easily and at lower cost.
You could certainly remove the incentives or prevent people like Jeff Bezos from creating wealth and that may make a 'more equal' society but it may not make a wealthier society.
Chose your poison - we can all be equal but live in mud huts, or we can all have flat screen TVs but a few distant strangers we'll never meet happen to be able to drive Ferraris.
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 16:55 - Nov 8 with 1754 views | jackrabbit |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 13:44 - Nov 8 by Legend83 |
But that's a circular argument no? Chicken and egg spring to mind.
No idea, no business, no workers. No wealth, no additional investment, no additional workers etc etc etc.
What people forget is yes billionaires exist as a by-product of their successful businesses but this trickles down and makes everyone "more wealthy" which for me as a conservative (note the lower case C) is the ideal.
Take Amazon - they are the devil in many eyes because they avoid tax and yes it makes Jeff Bezos a billionaire, but it does so by delivering value (cheaper products, more easily available) to millions of people. Those people are wealthier (the proper definition) for receiving that value. The same applies to Google, Walmart, Apple and so on - they make their key staff rich beyond most of our dreams, but the benefit is that over the last few decades we have all become wealthier - our needs and desires are met more easily and at lower cost.
You could certainly remove the incentives or prevent people like Jeff Bezos from creating wealth and that may make a 'more equal' society but it may not make a wealthier society.
Chose your poison - we can all be equal but live in mud huts, or we can all have flat screen TVs but a few distant strangers we'll never meet happen to be able to drive Ferraris.
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Well said. |  | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 17:55 - Nov 8 with 1711 views | Fireboy2 |
Ive always said that multi millionaires business people should be treated better, they have used their brains and bravado to set businesses up so they should pay a fair share not a higher rate, then they wouldnt dodge paying tax and fyi most of them dont pass the wealth down, try asking workers at amazon, sports direct et al, who are on zero hour contracts and have terrible working conditions, its the middle who keep this country going by staying on the wheel, hoodwinked by the establishment into trying to better themselves by getting mortgages, cars, having loads of holidays, then losing sight of where they have come from and voting tory because they listen to the tory propaganda media and think they are better than they really are.
This countries people have become so selfish and greedy, people dont really care about each other anymore, this has gradually happened over the last 30 years, thatcher has alot to do with it, there are a few who care but not many, these uncaring people are the ones who vote tory, im lucky enough to have quite a few mates and most if not all would never dream of voting for a party who only cares for people who are doing well, people who are selfish. |  | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 17:57 - Nov 8 with 1710 views | Catullus |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 13:44 - Nov 8 by Legend83 |
But that's a circular argument no? Chicken and egg spring to mind.
No idea, no business, no workers. No wealth, no additional investment, no additional workers etc etc etc.
What people forget is yes billionaires exist as a by-product of their successful businesses but this trickles down and makes everyone "more wealthy" which for me as a conservative (note the lower case C) is the ideal.
Take Amazon - they are the devil in many eyes because they avoid tax and yes it makes Jeff Bezos a billionaire, but it does so by delivering value (cheaper products, more easily available) to millions of people. Those people are wealthier (the proper definition) for receiving that value. The same applies to Google, Walmart, Apple and so on - they make their key staff rich beyond most of our dreams, but the benefit is that over the last few decades we have all become wealthier - our needs and desires are met more easily and at lower cost.
You could certainly remove the incentives or prevent people like Jeff Bezos from creating wealth and that may make a 'more equal' society but it may not make a wealthier society.
Chose your poison - we can all be equal but live in mud huts, or we can all have flat screen TVs but a few distant strangers we'll never meet happen to be able to drive Ferraris.
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I thought the trickle down theory had been discredited....to be polite. The gap is growing. The rich are getting richer and the rest of us are not just standing still, we are actually falling backwards. | |
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 18:39 - Nov 8 with 1684 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 17:57 - Nov 8 by Catullus |
I thought the trickle down theory had been discredited....to be polite. The gap is growing. The rich are getting richer and the rest of us are not just standing still, we are actually falling backwards. |
Those slagging Amazon for legally avoiding tax imo are the same happy to pay tradesmen in cash, enabling them to illegally evade tax. [Post edited 8 Nov 2019 18:39]
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 18:47 - Nov 8 with 1676 views | Catullus |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 18:39 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
Those slagging Amazon for legally avoiding tax imo are the same happy to pay tradesmen in cash, enabling them to illegally evade tax. [Post edited 8 Nov 2019 18:39]
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I take the point but I don't really care. Any local tradesman getting paid cash won't avoid enough tax to cover the interest on the interest Amazon will save on their legal tax avoidance.
Last year Amazon halved their tax bill to 4.5 million while profits tripled to 1.9 BILLION. If we want everyone to pay their fair share of tax that means EVERYONE. Now we just need the capability to make big companies pay tax in the country the profits are earned. After all, I can't go self employed and register my business in Eire or Luxembourg. | |
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 18:55 - Nov 8 with 1668 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 17:55 - Nov 8 by Fireboy2 |
Ive always said that multi millionaires business people should be treated better, they have used their brains and bravado to set businesses up so they should pay a fair share not a higher rate, then they wouldnt dodge paying tax and fyi most of them dont pass the wealth down, try asking workers at amazon, sports direct et al, who are on zero hour contracts and have terrible working conditions, its the middle who keep this country going by staying on the wheel, hoodwinked by the establishment into trying to better themselves by getting mortgages, cars, having loads of holidays, then losing sight of where they have come from and voting tory because they listen to the tory propaganda media and think they are better than they really are.
This countries people have become so selfish and greedy, people dont really care about each other anymore, this has gradually happened over the last 30 years, thatcher has alot to do with it, there are a few who care but not many, these uncaring people are the ones who vote tory, im lucky enough to have quite a few mates and most if not all would never dream of voting for a party who only cares for people who are doing well, people who are selfish. |
People doing well = Selfish People  | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:26 - Nov 8 with 1649 views | Fireboy2 |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 18:55 - Nov 8 by A_Fans_Dad |
People doing well = Selfish People |
They come selfish or are brought upto be selfish.
You may mock but its true. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:45 - Nov 8 with 1636 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:26 - Nov 8 by Fireboy2 |
They come selfish or are brought upto be selfish.
You may mock but its true. |
Too much of a generalised statement for me. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:47 - Nov 8 with 1634 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 18:47 - Nov 8 by Catullus |
I take the point but I don't really care. Any local tradesman getting paid cash won't avoid enough tax to cover the interest on the interest Amazon will save on their legal tax avoidance.
Last year Amazon halved their tax bill to 4.5 million while profits tripled to 1.9 BILLION. If we want everyone to pay their fair share of tax that means EVERYONE. Now we just need the capability to make big companies pay tax in the country the profits are earned. After all, I can't go self employed and register my business in Eire or Luxembourg. |
Yeah, ok skippy. We get you don't care, tradesmen illegally avoiding VAT are just sticking it to the man. Sum the totals up via illegal evasion of tax, far greater than that of Amazon. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:52 - Nov 8 with 1624 views | NeathJack |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:47 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
Yeah, ok skippy. We get you don't care, tradesmen illegally avoiding VAT are just sticking it to the man. Sum the totals up via illegal evasion of tax, far greater than that of Amazon. |
Do you offer anything other than whataboutery?
Are you actually saying that a global company like Amazon shouldn't be paying their tax because John the plumber does the occasional hobble? |  | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:55 - Nov 8 with 1621 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:47 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
Yeah, ok skippy. We get you don't care, tradesmen illegally avoiding VAT are just sticking it to the man. Sum the totals up via illegal evasion of tax, far greater than that of Amazon. |
Don’t be so ridiculous Bluey.
You have mentioned how unfair the loan charge on here at least half a dozen times. And IR35. And now you care about people avoiding tax?
The impact of large companies avoiding tax is so much higher than a bunch of plumbers or chippies not charging VAT it’s laughable. You do realise that you don’t have to register for VAT unless you have turnover in excess of £85k per year don’t you? | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:55 - Nov 8 with 1619 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:52 - Nov 8 by NeathJack |
Do you offer anything other than whataboutery?
Are you actually saying that a global company like Amazon shouldn't be paying their tax because John the plumber does the occasional hobble? |
I'm saying it's double standards when legal evasion us slated yet people remain slient about illegal evasion.
I'd also point out people are fvcking clueless about tax when they ignore HMRC's actions - see loan charge. See IR35 appeals, where HMRC themselves state that they ignore the result of their own CEST tool when inconvenient for themselves.
Corporation Tax can be minimised for numerous reasons. Pension contributions, training costs being two obvious examples. The whole point being that profits get reduced by investing into the company.. People seem to confuse sales for profits, | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:58 - Nov 8 with 1614 views | NeathJack |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:55 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
I'm saying it's double standards when legal evasion us slated yet people remain slient about illegal evasion.
I'd also point out people are fvcking clueless about tax when they ignore HMRC's actions - see loan charge. See IR35 appeals, where HMRC themselves state that they ignore the result of their own CEST tool when inconvenient for themselves.
Corporation Tax can be minimised for numerous reasons. Pension contributions, training costs being two obvious examples. The whole point being that profits get reduced by investing into the company.. People seem to confuse sales for profits, |
So yes, then. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:59 - Nov 8 with 1614 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:55 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
I'm saying it's double standards when legal evasion us slated yet people remain slient about illegal evasion.
I'd also point out people are fvcking clueless about tax when they ignore HMRC's actions - see loan charge. See IR35 appeals, where HMRC themselves state that they ignore the result of their own CEST tool when inconvenient for themselves.
Corporation Tax can be minimised for numerous reasons. Pension contributions, training costs being two obvious examples. The whole point being that profits get reduced by investing into the company.. People seem to confuse sales for profits, |
Oh, you’ve mentioned loan charge and IR35 then again. Lol.
Amazon don’t avoid tax by investing in training. They avoid tax by moving profits offshore or to low tax environments. The problem is that you constantly defend things that you obviously don’t understand. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 20:03 - Nov 8 with 1603 views | sherpajacob |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:47 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
Yeah, ok skippy. We get you don't care, tradesmen illegally avoiding VAT are just sticking it to the man. Sum the totals up via illegal evasion of tax, far greater than that of Amazon. |
I don't recall Amazon ever offering me a discount for cash |  |
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| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 20:09 - Nov 8 with 1587 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:55 - Nov 8 by londonlisa2001 |
Don’t be so ridiculous Bluey.
You have mentioned how unfair the loan charge on here at least half a dozen times. And IR35. And now you care about people avoiding tax?
The impact of large companies avoiding tax is so much higher than a bunch of plumbers or chippies not charging VAT it’s laughable. You do realise that you don’t have to register for VAT unless you have turnover in excess of £85k per year don’t you? |
I'm stating that HMRC don't play by the rules. No-one seems concerned by that.
I'm well aware of the 85k limit for VAT. I'm also well aware cash in hand puts many below the limit in the eyes of HMRC.
Avoidance is legal, for valid reasons. Evasion is illegal, yet plenty turn a blind eye to it. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 20:11 - Nov 8 with 1581 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:59 - Nov 8 by londonlisa2001 |
Oh, you’ve mentioned loan charge and IR35 then again. Lol.
Amazon don’t avoid tax by investing in training. They avoid tax by moving profits offshore or to low tax environments. The problem is that you constantly defend things that you obviously don’t understand. |
I gave examples where it's legal. Simple examples. Examples you cite are also legal.
You might not like it, but funnily enough the legal system doesn't work around your beliefs. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 20:17 - Nov 8 with 1570 views | ladyjack |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 13:44 - Nov 8 by Legend83 |
But that's a circular argument no? Chicken and egg spring to mind.
No idea, no business, no workers. No wealth, no additional investment, no additional workers etc etc etc.
What people forget is yes billionaires exist as a by-product of their successful businesses but this trickles down and makes everyone "more wealthy" which for me as a conservative (note the lower case C) is the ideal.
Take Amazon - they are the devil in many eyes because they avoid tax and yes it makes Jeff Bezos a billionaire, but it does so by delivering value (cheaper products, more easily available) to millions of people. Those people are wealthier (the proper definition) for receiving that value. The same applies to Google, Walmart, Apple and so on - they make their key staff rich beyond most of our dreams, but the benefit is that over the last few decades we have all become wealthier - our needs and desires are met more easily and at lower cost.
You could certainly remove the incentives or prevent people like Jeff Bezos from creating wealth and that may make a 'more equal' society but it may not make a wealthier society.
Chose your poison - we can all be equal but live in mud huts, or we can all have flat screen TVs but a few distant strangers we'll never meet happen to be able to drive Ferraris.
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/21/death-of-neoliberalism-cri
Trickle down does not work its failed. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 20:42 - Nov 8 with 1551 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 20:09 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
I'm stating that HMRC don't play by the rules. No-one seems concerned by that.
I'm well aware of the 85k limit for VAT. I'm also well aware cash in hand puts many below the limit in the eyes of HMRC.
Avoidance is legal, for valid reasons. Evasion is illegal, yet plenty turn a blind eye to it. |
The whole tax system could do with an overhaul,
I’ve said on here many times that I would impute tax on turnover on large companies. And would change the system of avoidance by using tax havens.
Which is bizarrely close to the system being implemented by the EU on 1 January. Which some are trying to avoid.
Your argument is simply around what is legal and not, mine is around fairness. I don’t believe the current definitions of legality are fair. Incidentally, in a strange turn of events, neither does Trump. He’s changed the system in the US towards my suggestion as well. Which many in here LOVE. Lol.
As an aside - many tradesmen have a turnover way below £85k. And VAT isn’t paid by them anyway, it’s paid by the consumer. | | | |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 21:49 - Nov 8 with 1513 views | Catullus |
| Anyone voting Conservative must be mad ? on 19:47 - Nov 8 by bluey_the_blue |
Yeah, ok skippy. We get you don't care, tradesmen illegally avoiding VAT are just sticking it to the man. Sum the totals up via illegal evasion of tax, far greater than that of Amazon. |
Do you remember when Vodaphone had a cosy meal wih a HMRC bigwig and got let off a really very hefty tax bill of around 8 billion.
I don't know the figures but I'd be surprised if all local tradesmen from the UK added together got anywhere near the amount of tax corporations manage to avoid.
Regardless of that, which is the greater wrong, a relatively low earner skimming a few thousand (at best) or corporations, often with help from governments, avoiding billions?
Apple made 1.2 billion in UK sales in the last tax year and paid 3.8 million in tax, the list of corporate low tax payers is long and the figures are vast.
I've heard talk of a boycott on ASDA because of their recent attempt to force employees to change terms and conditions. A friend who workd there tells me the pay rise they wiill get is wiped out by the change in terms and they have to forfeit some holiday days too, a week I think he said. Why? so they can keep profits up.
So spare me the moralising about local tradesmen/women, what they get away with is a drop in a very large ocean. | |
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