| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? 23:08 - Feb 19 with 45436 views | GloryHunter |
I was 22 in 1975, and I voted "No". This was based on my political heroes Michael Foot and Tony Benn warning against the dangers of entering the EU. After that, I softened my opposition somewhat. I like the fact that I can now cross most European borders without being searched and showing my passport, and I have since acquired a German wife, who is free to live and work in the UK (although she is not allowed to vote here, despite having paid UK taxes for 25 years). But, to be honest, I am thinking of voting "Out". What do other posters on here think? |  | | |  |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 15:26 - Feb 23 with 2432 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:50 - Feb 23 by R_from_afar |
And: "Exit would be negative for trade and investment in the UK, given the close links with the EU as the UK's single most important trading partner and largest source of foreign-direct investment," Kathrin Muehlbronner, a senior vice president at Moody's, said.
Standard & Poor's, which still rates Britain as AAA, said in October that Britain's credit rating could be cut by as much as two notches if it left the EU.
RFA |
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/17/brexit-benefits-neil-woodford-fu
I trust this bloke more than ex Deutsche Bank and Merril Lynch employees .
"A nil sum game" |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:54 - Feb 24 with 2351 views | shedhateruk |
OUT OUT OUT good to see a QPR season ticket holder doing something worthwhile, well done MR. MICHAEL GOVE.and the best news about the outs winning would be that the jocks would get another independence vote and leave the uk yeehaaaa {thats just for you karl} |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:05 - Feb 24 with 2343 views | richranger |
Reasons for staying in?
Michael Gove
Boris Johnson
Ian Duncan Smith
George Galloway
all want out.
Need I say more :>) | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:08 - Feb 24 with 2341 views | stevec |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:54 - Feb 24 by shedhateruk |
OUT OUT OUT good to see a QPR season ticket holder doing something worthwhile, well done MR. MICHAEL GOVE.and the best news about the outs winning would be that the jocks would get another independence vote and leave the uk yeehaaaa {thats just for you karl} |
The establishment's ratcheting up 'Project Fear' so brace yourselves.
23rd June 2016. The one and only chance of giving these knts a kicking, don't waste it. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:10 - Feb 24 with 2331 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:08 - Feb 24 by stevec |
The establishment's ratcheting up 'Project Fear' so brace yourselves.
23rd June 2016. The one and only chance of giving these knts a kicking, don't waste it. |
I don't think you know what the establishment is. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:23 - Feb 24 with 2324 views | stevec |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:10 - Feb 24 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don't think you know what the establishment is. |
enlighten me | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:34 - Feb 24 with 2311 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:23 - Feb 24 by stevec |
enlighten me |
If you don't think the Justice Secretary, Mayor of London, Education Secretary, and Former Chancellor of the Exchequer are part of the establishment then I don't know what to say. | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:55 - Feb 24 with 2295 views | stevec |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:34 - Feb 24 by BazzaInTheLoft |
If you don't think the Justice Secretary, Mayor of London, Education Secretary, and Former Chancellor of the Exchequer are part of the establishment then I don't know what to say. |
Don't you think they just might be saying NO to the establishment? | | | |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:59 - Feb 24 with 2286 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 09:54 - Feb 24 by shedhateruk |
OUT OUT OUT good to see a QPR season ticket holder doing something worthwhile, well done MR. MICHAEL GOVE.and the best news about the outs winning would be that the jocks would get another independence vote and leave the uk yeehaaaa {thats just for you karl} |
I am a confirmed outer but for balance Alan Johnson another Rangers fan is fronting up the Labour remain camp .
The Scottish thing is very interesting , if we vote out they may get a straight vote . Britain or Europe . [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 11:01]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:09 - Feb 24 with 2273 views | Discodroids |
Blair, Cameron, Brown, Obama, Milliband, Milliband, Clegg, Corbyn, Kinnock, Kinnock, Kinnock, Mandelson, McGuinness, Patten, Balls, Balls, Sturgeon, Cumberbatch, Emma Thompson, Jude Law, Russel Brand, Eddie Izzard, Letwin, Rudd,everyone at the BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian, Magic Circle Law firms, Goldman Sachs, Google, JP Morgan, KPMG, Branson, major charity executives and everyone else sucking on the public teat all support Stay.
Reasons to be leaving Kinnocks 1, 2, 3. |  |
| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:14 - Feb 24 with 2268 views | essextaxiboy |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:34 - Feb 24 by BazzaInTheLoft |
If you don't think the Justice Secretary, Mayor of London, Education Secretary, and Former Chancellor of the Exchequer are part of the establishment then I don't know what to say. |
I disagree in part .
I think the establishment are the Civil Service , the senior judiciary, heads of the armed forces and some huge business leaders .
The politicians you mention of course may be part of it but the politicians on the "remain " side, The Prime Minister , The current Chancellor and the Home secretary have all of the resources of the people I mention in the first paragraph at their disposal .
They have openly denied the "out " campaign access to the same resources .
I would say the politicians that you mention have chosen to step outside of the establishment on this issue. | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:33 - Feb 24 with 2245 views | ElHoop |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:14 - Feb 24 by essextaxiboy |
I disagree in part .
I think the establishment are the Civil Service , the senior judiciary, heads of the armed forces and some huge business leaders .
The politicians you mention of course may be part of it but the politicians on the "remain " side, The Prime Minister , The current Chancellor and the Home secretary have all of the resources of the people I mention in the first paragraph at their disposal .
They have openly denied the "out " campaign access to the same resources .
I would say the politicians that you mention have chosen to step outside of the establishment on this issue. |
'I would say the politicians that you mention have chosen to step outside of the establishment on this issue. '
That's clearly the case for the dissenting ministers, although Boris's position is a bit iffy. The Tories won the election by recognising the fact that UKIP were going to do them a lot of damage unless they promised a referendum. Labour were outflanked through poor leadership and a freak SNP situation and they remain totally oblivious to the feelings of the public on immigration. If we stay in, the next election will be interesting, that's for sure. It would be rather typical of the Tories to keep us in Europe and then elect Boris as their next leader. Does he really care too much about the EU either way? I somehow doubt it. He probably can't lose whatever happens here, as the Tories will replace Cameron with whomever looks most likely to win the next election. By then we'll probably be back to square one on immigration and such like, so instead of Farage v Referendum it'll be Farage v Boris. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:41 - Feb 24 with 2239 views | johncharles |
Beware the Boris creature. He believes himself to be intelligent and in his arrogance has convinced other people he is but in truth he is deeply and intensely stupid. His vanity will end in disaster.
He was born running with scissors. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:56 - Feb 24 with 2226 views | Discodroids |
imo, Vichy Lord Haw Haw Dave is misleading everyone. He's presenting his 'concessions' as real knowing full well they're subject to a review by EU Courts which will almost certainly strike them out rendering them as impotent as his estrogen flabby body.
The 'Leave' campaign shouldn't get too bogged down with nebulous 'concessions'.
i want 'OUT'. It's a simple message. Why the fck get drawn into the minutiae of non-existent concessions when the argument should be 'Why the fck should we be begging high on the hog Juncker and the suckling piglets fixed to his flabby expense account teat for "concessions", in the first case?.
I'm at the point where I think the likes of Toynbee are simply the Grauniad equivalent of The much maligned Daily Mail journalist on here.
Deliberately writing any old shit knowing it will drive their respective audiences demented with righteous fury. They don't believe a word of it. They're just giving their readers what they want. same rules apply. A bear pit for both the left and the right. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 11:59]
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| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:21 - Feb 24 with 2196 views | R_from_afar |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:56 - Feb 24 by Discodroids |
imo, Vichy Lord Haw Haw Dave is misleading everyone. He's presenting his 'concessions' as real knowing full well they're subject to a review by EU Courts which will almost certainly strike them out rendering them as impotent as his estrogen flabby body.
The 'Leave' campaign shouldn't get too bogged down with nebulous 'concessions'.
i want 'OUT'. It's a simple message. Why the fck get drawn into the minutiae of non-existent concessions when the argument should be 'Why the fck should we be begging high on the hog Juncker and the suckling piglets fixed to his flabby expense account teat for "concessions", in the first case?.
I'm at the point where I think the likes of Toynbee are simply the Grauniad equivalent of The much maligned Daily Mail journalist on here.
Deliberately writing any old shit knowing it will drive their respective audiences demented with righteous fury. They don't believe a word of it. They're just giving their readers what they want. same rules apply. A bear pit for both the left and the right. [Post edited 24 Feb 2016 11:59]
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I genuinely believe that we will do better to stay in and I do feel that there is more data to support that, plus I like having clean beaches, the EHIC, cheaper mobile roaming charges, a mechanism for controlling the excesses of the Tories, feeling part of Europe (to which we used to be physically attached, pop pickers; Doggerland has nothing to do with Stan Collymore), BUT... whichever way it goes, in or out, our puppet masters in UK government, the EU bigwigs and big industry will not allow it to be a total disaster.
Wheels will be quietly greased in London clubs and Michelin starred Brussels restaurants, thereby ensuring the outcome will not be binary.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:30 - Feb 24 with 2183 views | Discodroids |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:21 - Feb 24 by R_from_afar |
I genuinely believe that we will do better to stay in and I do feel that there is more data to support that, plus I like having clean beaches, the EHIC, cheaper mobile roaming charges, a mechanism for controlling the excesses of the Tories, feeling part of Europe (to which we used to be physically attached, pop pickers; Doggerland has nothing to do with Stan Collymore), BUT... whichever way it goes, in or out, our puppet masters in UK government, the EU bigwigs and big industry will not allow it to be a total disaster.
Wheels will be quietly greased in London clubs and Michelin starred Brussels restaurants, thereby ensuring the outcome will not be binary.
RFA |
left or right, we do seem to agree on quite a few things lately R.
It pains me, to see Quisling Cameron inform all and sundry that the choice is between a reformed Europe or Brexit when imo, the former has not or ever been ,an option . | |
| The Duke Of New York. A-Number One.
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:40 - Feb 24 with 2174 views | R_from_afar |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 12:30 - Feb 24 by Discodroids |
left or right, we do seem to agree on quite a few things lately R.
It pains me, to see Quisling Cameron inform all and sundry that the choice is between a reformed Europe or Brexit when imo, the former has not or ever been ,an option . |
I thought Cameron would get short shrift if he tried to get improved terms and so I am impressed by what he claims he has secured. Whether, in reality, that turns out to be what he says it is is all together another matter, though.
As I write this, I am sure there is a container ship leaving China laden with a very special cargo: ten million "Bored with the EU referendum" T shirts.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 14:28 - Feb 24 with 2129 views | isawqpratwcity |
What I like about this thread is that if you haven't already made up your mind, it certainly points to some areas where you'd want some specific questions answered.
If you have already made up your mind, you'd have to at least allow that the opposition has raised some valid points that demand further investigation. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 14:50 - Feb 24 with 2119 views | FDC |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:09 - Feb 24 by Discodroids |
Blair, Cameron, Brown, Obama, Milliband, Milliband, Clegg, Corbyn, Kinnock, Kinnock, Kinnock, Mandelson, McGuinness, Patten, Balls, Balls, Sturgeon, Cumberbatch, Emma Thompson, Jude Law, Russel Brand, Eddie Izzard, Letwin, Rudd,everyone at the BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian, Magic Circle Law firms, Goldman Sachs, Google, JP Morgan, KPMG, Branson, major charity executives and everyone else sucking on the public teat all support Stay.
Reasons to be leaving Kinnocks 1, 2, 3. |
As far as ad hominem arguments go, it is quite compelling |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:01 - Feb 24 with 2078 views | HendonHoop |
I reckon Obama has put his two pennyworth into the Stay in campaign as he doesn't want any of his US States in America to want to break away i.e Vermont and Texas ect. An American pal told me that. | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:10 - Feb 24 with 2068 views | Aitch |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:01 - Feb 24 by HendonHoop |
I reckon Obama has put his two pennyworth into the Stay in campaign as he doesn't want any of his US States in America to want to break away i.e Vermont and Texas ect. An American pal told me that. |
He's stuck his oar in because of TTIP and how the NHS will be at the mercy of the U.S. health companies.
The EU are selling us down the river. They want a homogenized, corporate, private healthcare service throughout Europe. |  |
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:19 - Feb 24 with 2059 views | Juzzie |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 10:05 - Feb 24 by richranger |
Reasons for staying in?
Michael Gove
Boris Johnson
Ian Duncan Smith
George Galloway
all want out.
Need I say more :>) |
I suspect those people have seen a sniff that out is very likely and are jumping on the bandwagon for personal gain, not for what's good for the country. I don't trust one single polictician to do anything that isn't for anything other than personal gain.
Same as red top papers switching allegiances from Labour to Conservative depending on which one of them is elected for government.
[Post edited 24 Feb 2016 18:19]
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| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:34 - Feb 24 with 2239 views | easthertsr |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 11:09 - Feb 24 by Discodroids |
Blair, Cameron, Brown, Obama, Milliband, Milliband, Clegg, Corbyn, Kinnock, Kinnock, Kinnock, Mandelson, McGuinness, Patten, Balls, Balls, Sturgeon, Cumberbatch, Emma Thompson, Jude Law, Russel Brand, Eddie Izzard, Letwin, Rudd,everyone at the BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian, Magic Circle Law firms, Goldman Sachs, Google, JP Morgan, KPMG, Branson, major charity executives and everyone else sucking on the public teat all support Stay.
Reasons to be leaving Kinnocks 1, 2, 3. |
So when Farage claims expenses from the 'public teat' of the E U parliament that's all right then? Actually that's a pretty impressive list of people from all over the political spectrum who have decided that a collective response to our political difficulties is better then a splintered one. Our world is a complicated and dangerous at present , the more there is a joint approach to this the greater the likelihood that we can remain peaceful. Like all organisations there are faults with the EU but at present we need to join together rather than fracture apart. I vote REMAIN | | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:44 - Feb 24 with 2205 views | QPRDave |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:34 - Feb 24 by easthertsr |
So when Farage claims expenses from the 'public teat' of the E U parliament that's all right then? Actually that's a pretty impressive list of people from all over the political spectrum who have decided that a collective response to our political difficulties is better then a splintered one. Our world is a complicated and dangerous at present , the more there is a joint approach to this the greater the likelihood that we can remain peaceful. Like all organisations there are faults with the EU but at present we need to join together rather than fracture apart. I vote REMAIN |
What joint approach is that then?
From what I see Britain and USA send the majority of troops and the rest wring their hands. |  | | |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:49 - Feb 24 with 2188 views | easthertsr |
| Euro Referendum - What do Loft for Words posters think? on 17:44 - Feb 24 by QPRDave |
What joint approach is that then?
From what I see Britain and USA send the majority of troops and the rest wring their hands. |
Responses to international problems are not just sending troops, sometimes that is the worst thing to do! | | | |
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