| Open Al R's tonight 09:16 - Nov 6 with 13643 views | finney |
we will have a member of the coaching set up on tonight any questions? |  | | |  |
| Open Al R's tonight on 10:59 - Nov 7 with 1756 views | Jamie |
| Open Al R's tonight on 10:52 - Nov 7 by daveB |
that was almost 10 years ago now though and since then he did a very good rescue job at Portsmouth and Spurs. Big money was spent at Spurs but big money has been spent here as well without the results to follow.It was more than a little pathetic of Bowen to dig out Redknapp. |
Pompey were in a similar position to us, Redknapp spent £15m in January and kept them up in 17th. Basically what Hughes did last season.
If TF would be willing to give Redknapp a blank cheque then fair enough, but if he's expecting him to work with what we have then he's the wrong option IMO.
As for Bowen, he's hardly going to give a ringing endorsement to the man most likely to replace them. |  | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 11:03 - Nov 7 with 1747 views | daveB |
I'm not suggesting we should go for Redknapp but his name wasn't mentioned and Bowen went on a needless rant about him which i thought was unfair and inaccurate when you consider what he did at Spurs and Pompey after that first season of keeping them up was far more impressive than our season so far. |  | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 11:03 - Nov 7 with 1749 views | JonDoeman |
| Open Al R's tonight on 00:10 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
It was very interesting, he came across very well, imagine all that effort they go to with interviews on the official website and you can get x1000 better PR by putting somebody up for something like that.
However...
1 - I lost count of the amount of times he said, in not so many words, "we don't understand..."
2 - He said "Want them to be a bit angrier with each other." Which I took as either the players are not bothered or not aware of how serious this situation is.
3 - "searching for a formula to get us up and running... trying certain things" - no real idea what they're going to do, other than thrash around and hope to stumble across something.
4 - "these players are going to set the league on fire, I'm convinced of it" - keep trying the same things, hope for different results.
I really liked him, came across as a proper football bloke and somebody desperate to do well for us. But he didn't reassure me much. |
Yep came across well as a bloke, did not inspire much confidence in me though.
Feel sorry for Tony, big decision coming up, which I predict he will make too late. |  |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 11:08 - Nov 7 with 1736 views | daveB |
the problem for me is the transfer policy and we've signed too many players with nothing to prove so when the chips are down no matter how often they are told to mark someone at a corner they look for an excuse and don't do it knowing full well they won't be blamed and they'll be paid regardless. You saw that attitude with Bosingwa walking back on Sunday and with Zamora against Everton for the Distan goal.
I felt for the bloke but like others am not really confident they know what the problem is, let alone how to fix it. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Open Al R's tonight on 11:26 - Nov 7 with 1707 views | adhoc_qpr |
The defence is not going to be magically fixed by the return of Fabio and Mbia - so we might as well go gung-ho and attack teams going for the win everytime.
Hoillet and Taarabt are unplayable on their day, Mackie has an eye for goal, Cisse is a goal machine if you create the right kind of chances (i.e. give him the ball in the box or running off the last defender) and other can chip in here and there.
No combination of our defensive options is going to keep many clean sheets, so let's at least try and win!
However, Hughes will doggedly do the same thing again and again until TF is forced to fire him - by my reckoning another away loss to a hopeless Sunderland team at the end of the month should force the situation! | | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 11:36 - Nov 7 with 1694 views | fakekerby |
Incredibly concering how he basically admitted that this coaching set up have pretty much done very little set piece defending coaching throughout their careers - how can we turn around our weakest area without the experience and knowledge required? | | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 12:31 - Nov 7 with 1629 views | DesertBoot |
Our squad is flooded with midfielders and weak in other areas. Therefore you have players who know, regardless of how bad they play, there are no other options but to play them again.
Throw in huge salaries and a "nothing more to achieve" attitude and you have performances like Sunday.
I found this interview quite despairing as the well of ideas seems dry. |  |
| Wish I could be like David Watts |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 13:31 - Nov 7 with 1583 views | smegma |
A great point was made by one of the regulars when he said about how these players are not young kids but experienced players that have played for Man Utd & Arsenal yet they are not doing the basics.
I'd add we have players with CL experience who are struggling playing against the likes of Reading, Swansea, Norwich , West Ham etc so gawd help us when we go to OT in a few weeks. | | | |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 14:25 - Nov 7 with 1548 views | R_from_afar |
Did Bowen say when "the" win is coming?
If he and the rest of the coaching staff are exasperated, well, that's a shame but they are being paid whereas we have to pay to feel that pain.
One last rant while I am here: Which member of Hughes' staff told Hoilett it's OK to give the opposition the time and space to do whatever they want with the ball? Shaun Derry must've been grinding his teeth in frustration as he sat on the bench watching that happen time and again. No I insist, after you, Kaspars old chap.
RFA
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 14:26 - Nov 7 with 1540 views | stuabd |
| Open Al R's tonight on 12:31 - Nov 7 by DesertBoot |
Our squad is flooded with midfielders and weak in other areas. Therefore you have players who know, regardless of how bad they play, there are no other options but to play them again.
Throw in huge salaries and a "nothing more to achieve" attitude and you have performances like Sunday.
I found this interview quite despairing as the well of ideas seems dry. |
I think this is the key point. The squad is so unbalanced that there is little competition for places in some areas. Zamora can pretty much guarantee he's in the team if remotely fit. Having HH or even Hulse as an option would have been something instead of wasting a place in the squad on people that won't get a game (Derry, Hogan, etc.).
Competition for places is crucial.
Bowen comes over to me as a more clued up Mick Jones, but neither inspire me with much confidence.
|  | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 14:28 - Nov 7 with 1540 views | A40Bosh |
I had a massive dose of written diarrhea on this podcast and it must have been so rank the servers decided to bomb out and allow me to post it.
Probably best for all concerned in hindsight. |  |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 14:43 - Nov 7 with 1525 views | TacticalR |
| Open Al R's tonight on 14:28 - Nov 7 by A40Bosh |
I had a massive dose of written diarrhea on this podcast and it must have been so rank the servers decided to bomb out and allow me to post it.
Probably best for all concerned in hindsight. |
Act of God. |  |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 14:46 - Nov 7 with 1515 views | A40Bosh |
| Open Al R's tonight on 14:26 - Nov 7 by stuabd |
I think this is the key point. The squad is so unbalanced that there is little competition for places in some areas. Zamora can pretty much guarantee he's in the team if remotely fit. Having HH or even Hulse as an option would have been something instead of wasting a place in the squad on people that won't get a game (Derry, Hogan, etc.).
Competition for places is crucial.
Bowen comes over to me as a more clued up Mick Jones, but neither inspire me with much confidence.
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However, your position on wasting spaces on the likes of Derry and Hogs is at direct odds to many of those who feel the solution is to return many of the old guard to the starting 11 for the old guard will automatically sweat blood and guts for the cause. | |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 14:54 - Nov 7 with 1502 views | Juzzie |
Firstly, a big thanks for Bowen coming on and being allowed to come on and be quite honest.
As others have said on here, I'm utterly astounded that they don't practise defensive duties and they (as in the coaching team) haven't done for years. FK ME!!! Defending is a key part and anyone can tell you that you have to build a team from the back. No wonder the players are awful at it.
Hughes has gone to pains to tell us time & time again they meticulously study the opposition and put a lot of effort into stats etc.
Really???
I'm getting tired of the same phrases coming out "we need to gel" etc. It's fking November, they have been together for 4-5 months now.
or "we just need to get that first win" a) when? they've been saying it for weeks and b) when/if we do actually win, there's no guarantee that we'll suddenly win 2 out of every 3 from here to the end of the season (unless we get the first win in game 35/36).
Too many midfielders bought. We knew this in the summer. Whilst we were excited at the (supposed) calibre of these players, we're short in defence and attack. Two key areas you'd think.
Slightly off topic but I couldn't give two $hits if any player(s) doesn't like football. It's their job and a job they get paid not just well for it but obscenely well.
They should be watching as many games on TV as they can, not for the enjoyment of it but to study other teams. If they don't watch it at home then the Club need to record it and play it the next day to the whole squad in training. Every game.
As the saying goes, "fail to prepare, prepare to fail"
I don't care if it means they'll be late for tee-ing off of whatever it is they do in the afternoon.
|  | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 15:39 - Nov 7 with 1457 views | beeeater |
Nice bloke but clearly has no idea how we are going to get out of this run. | | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 16:20 - Nov 7 with 1431 views | A40Bosh |
| Open Al R's tonight on 14:54 - Nov 7 by Juzzie |
Firstly, a big thanks for Bowen coming on and being allowed to come on and be quite honest.
As others have said on here, I'm utterly astounded that they don't practise defensive duties and they (as in the coaching team) haven't done for years. FK ME!!! Defending is a key part and anyone can tell you that you have to build a team from the back. No wonder the players are awful at it.
Hughes has gone to pains to tell us time & time again they meticulously study the opposition and put a lot of effort into stats etc.
Really???
I'm getting tired of the same phrases coming out "we need to gel" etc. It's fking November, they have been together for 4-5 months now.
or "we just need to get that first win" a) when? they've been saying it for weeks and b) when/if we do actually win, there's no guarantee that we'll suddenly win 2 out of every 3 from here to the end of the season (unless we get the first win in game 35/36).
Too many midfielders bought. We knew this in the summer. Whilst we were excited at the (supposed) calibre of these players, we're short in defence and attack. Two key areas you'd think.
Slightly off topic but I couldn't give two $hits if any player(s) doesn't like football. It's their job and a job they get paid not just well for it but obscenely well.
They should be watching as many games on TV as they can, not for the enjoyment of it but to study other teams. If they don't watch it at home then the Club need to record it and play it the next day to the whole squad in training. Every game.
As the saying goes, "fail to prepare, prepare to fail"
I don't care if it means they'll be late for tee-ing off of whatever it is they do in the afternoon.
|
Juzzie
Where I dont get all upset about some of Bowens comments is this whole thing about not practising defensive duties. I think we have to keep in context what he probably means by that because no one had a chance to but in and pick him up on that.
To state the bleeding obvious, a back 5 of Cesar, Traore, Nelson, Ferdinand/Mbia/Onuha and Bosingwa is a back five of one of the greatest goalkeepers in the last few years and four defenders who are established, widely experienced premier league defenders.
If at the age of 26+ and 30+ they still require defensive coaching week in week out before they can face the next game, then there is something seriously fcukin flawed in the British football system that allows boys to go from the age of 6 at school and local clubs through the whole academy set up and then up through the professional ranks to the premier league without checking that they have been taught anything useful on how to defend.
I would suggest to put words in Mark Bowen's mouth is that they have been fortunate that in the clubs they have successfully managed and coached to date they have had a sqaud of professional defenders who had been playing in defence since the age of 12 and understand the principles of stopping the other team from scoring goals. What they probably will have done is work on the team shape as a whole and plan how to play the next oppostion as a whole trusting everyone to do their jobs. It now appears that the current crop of defenders with the exception of Ryan Nelson whilst having had this schooling in the art of defence for 15-20 years are flawed individuals who have arrived at LR because they are big teams cast offs. Where have they come from? Why do they no longer want them? It speaks volumes. Now if MH and Co are at fault it is the scouting and recruitment policy that may have let them down rather than their ability to coach professional players to be prepared against the next oppostion side.
I personally think that the ambition of TF has resulted in the club trying to bypass several stages of natural organic growth by gradually adding the up and coming players from the lower league and abroad over a period of years and instead have panic bought cast offs who may or may not be in it for the money but have "flaws" such as "cant be arsed to back track and defend" "loses concentration", "wont jump" and that is why they are no longer with Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Man U, Man City etc etc etc. | |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 16:25 - Nov 7 with 1420 views | Juzzie |
I'm not suggesting our players need to be coached per see and I agree that if they do then something has gone wrong far earlier in their careers than MH & Co can be responsible for but they SHOULD be practicing defending as a team to get to know how each other person behaves in given situations... corners from the left, corners from the right, free kicks from left, middle & right and so on.
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| Open Al R's tonight on 16:33 - Nov 7 with 1403 views | A40Bosh |
| Open Al R's tonight on 16:25 - Nov 7 by Juzzie |
I'm not suggesting our players need to be coached per see and I agree that if they do then something has gone wrong far earlier in their careers than MH & Co can be responsible for but they SHOULD be practicing defending as a team to get to know how each other person behaves in given situations... corners from the left, corners from the right, free kicks from left, middle & right and so on.
|
and if we were in a pub with Mark Bowen and could carry on the conversation with him and put that very point to him then he will either disagree with you and say, its still 11 v 11 and the principles remain the same regardless of who you are playing because if someone is taking a corner, then the basic prinicple is to ensure that either your goalie catches it or if not you make sure your head gets to it first before the oppostion........................
or he will say that they do already do that during the week by sitting down going through the videos with the players to assess the next opposition which I believe he said they do do and he and Eddie N were actually at the West Brom Swansea game in person as part of that preparation. | |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 17:07 - Nov 7 with 1370 views | Neil_SI |
I'll say something a little radical now.
I don't think they need to do a great amount of work on defensive set plays. Perhaps a bit, maybe a little bit extra depending on the context of certain situations that they may face.
The solution to it all is two fold.
First accept that at some point in a match you are going to come under pressure from set plays. You know you will have to contest at some moments and you need to be ready and switched on for them, both mentally and physically. It's here where your concentration and focus is incredibly important.
Secondly and the the art to solving this problem, is to reduce the amount of situations that lead to these type of set plays and areas of attack. That means not giving the ball away cheaply in certain areas of the pitch and taking extra care of it, it means holding onto possession and keeping it in play far more than we have been doing and it also means we have to play less direct.
We often launch the ball forward into an area that asks somebody to win a difficult dual or challenge, most of the time, it's not even 50-50, the odds are worse. And guess what, if you keep doing that, you are more likely to lose the ball and come under pressure and attack.
What Reading did really well against us was keep situations alive. When they went direct into the channels, it forced our defenders to chase backwards and put them in a situation that made them make a decision. Do I go back to the goalkeeper? Do I clear the ball off the pitch and concede a throw? Or do I try to get out of this situation from a technical perspective and try to find a pass to another team mate?
That is where we are falling down. The lack of confidence in the side means that they are hesitant to put the keeper under pressure and too scared to pass the ball in fear for giving it away in a dangerous area, so they play safe and just kick it out, either for a throw in or sometimes a corner. This is handing these situations to the opposition on a plate.
What do we do? We just pump it forward and give it away. Or if we put it into the channels it's over hit, goes out for a throw, or our strikers and wide men don't bother to chase and keep situations alive (unless you're name is Jamie Mackie - one of the reasons why he is so effective in percentage terms for the team).
On a similar note, don't even accept throw ins for us when the opportunity arises. Keep the bloody ball in play as long as you can and make it less stop start, particularly because we ourselves are so poor from our own throw ins and are likely to concede possession. If we actually worked on our throw ins and positioning, we'd find our ball retention and ability to recycle possession and maintain territorial possession increases massively. It's one way to remove pressure of yourself at the back, but, given how bad we've done at this in my entire lifetime, it's obviously something a lot of teams and management staff fail to get right.
Last season we played Stoke off the park at their place because we kept the ball in play and we played with aplomb. It's important not to go from A to C, if A is the defence and C is the attack. They need more square passes as they move up the pitch, because this slows the play, keeps it moving and forces all units from both teams to go in the direction you want them to go and that makes them retreat.
If you force Stoke to retreat and shift all their units up the pitch, more towards the half way line, even if they hit you with a flash ball over the top they don't possess a great deal of pace in a lot of their strikers, so you always have a chance of making a defensive recovery.
Look for the angles that work. If they are going to launch this ball at you from deep, where is best? If you let the centre backs have it and let them fire straight balls down the throat, these are easier to deal with and defend against. If you let them fire from full back position, the angle means it gives greater weight to the striker who can use that to buy a yard, and with Peter Crouch's height, that's not what you want to do. Even so, if that comes in, the defensive midfielder has a responsibility to close the ball down sharply from the other side so they can't lay it off cleanly.
Of course, you want your strikers to be shutting off the angles and forcing them to hit the ball from where we want them to hit it from.
Be wary of conceding free kicks to those kind of balls, but then, you can use that midfielder to be the one who challenges, the centre back doesn't need to be climbing all over the back of the player.
How else do they play? Their wide game, where they use the wings for crosses. Look at how they get those players in and stop the source of the attack and the ball from getting there. If you let them in, either you have a situation where they will be looking to get to the byline and cross for the big men in the box, or we face delicate situations of needing to make challenges that concede those throws and corners we talked about.
Alejandro Faurlin and Esteban Granero are the answer in this one. Play Faurlin at the base of the midfield and allow him to control the tempo from there, to provide a foundation and let Granero do exactly the same in the attacking area. Granero did this so well in his first two matches, but those situations where he brought others into play and retained the ball have suddenly evaporated. He's getting more and more direct, and when Cissé is playing they're going for broke every single time and trying to get him in, but often getting caught out to the offside and seeing attacks break down...and guess what, yep, free kicks and opportunities for other teams to launch balls in and build attacks from there.
Going off on a tangent here, but really... |  | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 17:30 - Nov 7 with 1343 views | adhoc_qpr |
| Open Al R's tonight on 17:07 - Nov 7 by Neil_SI |
I'll say something a little radical now.
I don't think they need to do a great amount of work on defensive set plays. Perhaps a bit, maybe a little bit extra depending on the context of certain situations that they may face.
The solution to it all is two fold.
First accept that at some point in a match you are going to come under pressure from set plays. You know you will have to contest at some moments and you need to be ready and switched on for them, both mentally and physically. It's here where your concentration and focus is incredibly important.
Secondly and the the art to solving this problem, is to reduce the amount of situations that lead to these type of set plays and areas of attack. That means not giving the ball away cheaply in certain areas of the pitch and taking extra care of it, it means holding onto possession and keeping it in play far more than we have been doing and it also means we have to play less direct.
We often launch the ball forward into an area that asks somebody to win a difficult dual or challenge, most of the time, it's not even 50-50, the odds are worse. And guess what, if you keep doing that, you are more likely to lose the ball and come under pressure and attack.
What Reading did really well against us was keep situations alive. When they went direct into the channels, it forced our defenders to chase backwards and put them in a situation that made them make a decision. Do I go back to the goalkeeper? Do I clear the ball off the pitch and concede a throw? Or do I try to get out of this situation from a technical perspective and try to find a pass to another team mate?
That is where we are falling down. The lack of confidence in the side means that they are hesitant to put the keeper under pressure and too scared to pass the ball in fear for giving it away in a dangerous area, so they play safe and just kick it out, either for a throw in or sometimes a corner. This is handing these situations to the opposition on a plate.
What do we do? We just pump it forward and give it away. Or if we put it into the channels it's over hit, goes out for a throw, or our strikers and wide men don't bother to chase and keep situations alive (unless you're name is Jamie Mackie - one of the reasons why he is so effective in percentage terms for the team).
On a similar note, don't even accept throw ins for us when the opportunity arises. Keep the bloody ball in play as long as you can and make it less stop start, particularly because we ourselves are so poor from our own throw ins and are likely to concede possession. If we actually worked on our throw ins and positioning, we'd find our ball retention and ability to recycle possession and maintain territorial possession increases massively. It's one way to remove pressure of yourself at the back, but, given how bad we've done at this in my entire lifetime, it's obviously something a lot of teams and management staff fail to get right.
Last season we played Stoke off the park at their place because we kept the ball in play and we played with aplomb. It's important not to go from A to C, if A is the defence and C is the attack. They need more square passes as they move up the pitch, because this slows the play, keeps it moving and forces all units from both teams to go in the direction you want them to go and that makes them retreat.
If you force Stoke to retreat and shift all their units up the pitch, more towards the half way line, even if they hit you with a flash ball over the top they don't possess a great deal of pace in a lot of their strikers, so you always have a chance of making a defensive recovery.
Look for the angles that work. If they are going to launch this ball at you from deep, where is best? If you let the centre backs have it and let them fire straight balls down the throat, these are easier to deal with and defend against. If you let them fire from full back position, the angle means it gives greater weight to the striker who can use that to buy a yard, and with Peter Crouch's height, that's not what you want to do. Even so, if that comes in, the defensive midfielder has a responsibility to close the ball down sharply from the other side so they can't lay it off cleanly.
Of course, you want your strikers to be shutting off the angles and forcing them to hit the ball from where we want them to hit it from.
Be wary of conceding free kicks to those kind of balls, but then, you can use that midfielder to be the one who challenges, the centre back doesn't need to be climbing all over the back of the player.
How else do they play? Their wide game, where they use the wings for crosses. Look at how they get those players in and stop the source of the attack and the ball from getting there. If you let them in, either you have a situation where they will be looking to get to the byline and cross for the big men in the box, or we face delicate situations of needing to make challenges that concede those throws and corners we talked about.
Alejandro Faurlin and Esteban Granero are the answer in this one. Play Faurlin at the base of the midfield and allow him to control the tempo from there, to provide a foundation and let Granero do exactly the same in the attacking area. Granero did this so well in his first two matches, but those situations where he brought others into play and retained the ball have suddenly evaporated. He's getting more and more direct, and when Cissé is playing they're going for broke every single time and trying to get him in, but often getting caught out to the offside and seeing attacks break down...and guess what, yep, free kicks and opportunities for other teams to launch balls in and build attacks from there.
Going off on a tangent here, but really... |
Can we get this man on the QPR coaching staff please!?
Great insight and sums up so many of the teams issues. | | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 18:06 - Nov 7 with 1319 views | TacticalR |
I am not sure if I am any the wiser after hearing that podcast. Mark Bowen gave off the air of a harassed junior officer under fire in the trenches, trying to keep the show on the road while Gerry brings up the big mortars.
Neil's post reminded me of something Richard Langley said in the previous podcast about Mark Hughes' footballing philosophy:
"It is difficult to see sometimes. Sometimes we do go out there and we look we're going to pass the ball with Granero and Faurlin in the middle. They look like they can take control of the game. And then there are times when we look very, very direct: we're hitting Zamora, and missing out the midfield."
It's like there are two different teams with two different styles fighting to get out.
Would certainly love to see Faurlin 'doing a Pirlo'. | |
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| Open Al R's tonight on 19:01 - Nov 7 with 1294 views | THEBUSH |
| Open Al R's tonight on 17:07 - Nov 7 by Neil_SI |
I'll say something a little radical now.
I don't think they need to do a great amount of work on defensive set plays. Perhaps a bit, maybe a little bit extra depending on the context of certain situations that they may face.
The solution to it all is two fold.
First accept that at some point in a match you are going to come under pressure from set plays. You know you will have to contest at some moments and you need to be ready and switched on for them, both mentally and physically. It's here where your concentration and focus is incredibly important.
Secondly and the the art to solving this problem, is to reduce the amount of situations that lead to these type of set plays and areas of attack. That means not giving the ball away cheaply in certain areas of the pitch and taking extra care of it, it means holding onto possession and keeping it in play far more than we have been doing and it also means we have to play less direct.
We often launch the ball forward into an area that asks somebody to win a difficult dual or challenge, most of the time, it's not even 50-50, the odds are worse. And guess what, if you keep doing that, you are more likely to lose the ball and come under pressure and attack.
What Reading did really well against us was keep situations alive. When they went direct into the channels, it forced our defenders to chase backwards and put them in a situation that made them make a decision. Do I go back to the goalkeeper? Do I clear the ball off the pitch and concede a throw? Or do I try to get out of this situation from a technical perspective and try to find a pass to another team mate?
That is where we are falling down. The lack of confidence in the side means that they are hesitant to put the keeper under pressure and too scared to pass the ball in fear for giving it away in a dangerous area, so they play safe and just kick it out, either for a throw in or sometimes a corner. This is handing these situations to the opposition on a plate.
What do we do? We just pump it forward and give it away. Or if we put it into the channels it's over hit, goes out for a throw, or our strikers and wide men don't bother to chase and keep situations alive (unless you're name is Jamie Mackie - one of the reasons why he is so effective in percentage terms for the team).
On a similar note, don't even accept throw ins for us when the opportunity arises. Keep the bloody ball in play as long as you can and make it less stop start, particularly because we ourselves are so poor from our own throw ins and are likely to concede possession. If we actually worked on our throw ins and positioning, we'd find our ball retention and ability to recycle possession and maintain territorial possession increases massively. It's one way to remove pressure of yourself at the back, but, given how bad we've done at this in my entire lifetime, it's obviously something a lot of teams and management staff fail to get right.
Last season we played Stoke off the park at their place because we kept the ball in play and we played with aplomb. It's important not to go from A to C, if A is the defence and C is the attack. They need more square passes as they move up the pitch, because this slows the play, keeps it moving and forces all units from both teams to go in the direction you want them to go and that makes them retreat.
If you force Stoke to retreat and shift all their units up the pitch, more towards the half way line, even if they hit you with a flash ball over the top they don't possess a great deal of pace in a lot of their strikers, so you always have a chance of making a defensive recovery.
Look for the angles that work. If they are going to launch this ball at you from deep, where is best? If you let the centre backs have it and let them fire straight balls down the throat, these are easier to deal with and defend against. If you let them fire from full back position, the angle means it gives greater weight to the striker who can use that to buy a yard, and with Peter Crouch's height, that's not what you want to do. Even so, if that comes in, the defensive midfielder has a responsibility to close the ball down sharply from the other side so they can't lay it off cleanly.
Of course, you want your strikers to be shutting off the angles and forcing them to hit the ball from where we want them to hit it from.
Be wary of conceding free kicks to those kind of balls, but then, you can use that midfielder to be the one who challenges, the centre back doesn't need to be climbing all over the back of the player.
How else do they play? Their wide game, where they use the wings for crosses. Look at how they get those players in and stop the source of the attack and the ball from getting there. If you let them in, either you have a situation where they will be looking to get to the byline and cross for the big men in the box, or we face delicate situations of needing to make challenges that concede those throws and corners we talked about.
Alejandro Faurlin and Esteban Granero are the answer in this one. Play Faurlin at the base of the midfield and allow him to control the tempo from there, to provide a foundation and let Granero do exactly the same in the attacking area. Granero did this so well in his first two matches, but those situations where he brought others into play and retained the ball have suddenly evaporated. He's getting more and more direct, and when Cissé is playing they're going for broke every single time and trying to get him in, but often getting caught out to the offside and seeing attacks break down...and guess what, yep, free kicks and opportunities for other teams to launch balls in and build attacks from there.
Going off on a tangent here, but really... |
A question Neil, do you think our coaching staff understand what you've just said ?
Because for me they would understand, so why isn't it happening, is it all down to Mark Hughes !! |  | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 19:45 - Nov 7 with 1271 views | kropotkin41 |
| Open Al R's tonight on 17:07 - Nov 7 by Neil_SI |
I'll say something a little radical now.
I don't think they need to do a great amount of work on defensive set plays. Perhaps a bit, maybe a little bit extra depending on the context of certain situations that they may face.
The solution to it all is two fold.
First accept that at some point in a match you are going to come under pressure from set plays. You know you will have to contest at some moments and you need to be ready and switched on for them, both mentally and physically. It's here where your concentration and focus is incredibly important.
Secondly and the the art to solving this problem, is to reduce the amount of situations that lead to these type of set plays and areas of attack. That means not giving the ball away cheaply in certain areas of the pitch and taking extra care of it, it means holding onto possession and keeping it in play far more than we have been doing and it also means we have to play less direct.
We often launch the ball forward into an area that asks somebody to win a difficult dual or challenge, most of the time, it's not even 50-50, the odds are worse. And guess what, if you keep doing that, you are more likely to lose the ball and come under pressure and attack.
What Reading did really well against us was keep situations alive. When they went direct into the channels, it forced our defenders to chase backwards and put them in a situation that made them make a decision. Do I go back to the goalkeeper? Do I clear the ball off the pitch and concede a throw? Or do I try to get out of this situation from a technical perspective and try to find a pass to another team mate?
That is where we are falling down. The lack of confidence in the side means that they are hesitant to put the keeper under pressure and too scared to pass the ball in fear for giving it away in a dangerous area, so they play safe and just kick it out, either for a throw in or sometimes a corner. This is handing these situations to the opposition on a plate.
What do we do? We just pump it forward and give it away. Or if we put it into the channels it's over hit, goes out for a throw, or our strikers and wide men don't bother to chase and keep situations alive (unless you're name is Jamie Mackie - one of the reasons why he is so effective in percentage terms for the team).
On a similar note, don't even accept throw ins for us when the opportunity arises. Keep the bloody ball in play as long as you can and make it less stop start, particularly because we ourselves are so poor from our own throw ins and are likely to concede possession. If we actually worked on our throw ins and positioning, we'd find our ball retention and ability to recycle possession and maintain territorial possession increases massively. It's one way to remove pressure of yourself at the back, but, given how bad we've done at this in my entire lifetime, it's obviously something a lot of teams and management staff fail to get right.
Last season we played Stoke off the park at their place because we kept the ball in play and we played with aplomb. It's important not to go from A to C, if A is the defence and C is the attack. They need more square passes as they move up the pitch, because this slows the play, keeps it moving and forces all units from both teams to go in the direction you want them to go and that makes them retreat.
If you force Stoke to retreat and shift all their units up the pitch, more towards the half way line, even if they hit you with a flash ball over the top they don't possess a great deal of pace in a lot of their strikers, so you always have a chance of making a defensive recovery.
Look for the angles that work. If they are going to launch this ball at you from deep, where is best? If you let the centre backs have it and let them fire straight balls down the throat, these are easier to deal with and defend against. If you let them fire from full back position, the angle means it gives greater weight to the striker who can use that to buy a yard, and with Peter Crouch's height, that's not what you want to do. Even so, if that comes in, the defensive midfielder has a responsibility to close the ball down sharply from the other side so they can't lay it off cleanly.
Of course, you want your strikers to be shutting off the angles and forcing them to hit the ball from where we want them to hit it from.
Be wary of conceding free kicks to those kind of balls, but then, you can use that midfielder to be the one who challenges, the centre back doesn't need to be climbing all over the back of the player.
How else do they play? Their wide game, where they use the wings for crosses. Look at how they get those players in and stop the source of the attack and the ball from getting there. If you let them in, either you have a situation where they will be looking to get to the byline and cross for the big men in the box, or we face delicate situations of needing to make challenges that concede those throws and corners we talked about.
Alejandro Faurlin and Esteban Granero are the answer in this one. Play Faurlin at the base of the midfield and allow him to control the tempo from there, to provide a foundation and let Granero do exactly the same in the attacking area. Granero did this so well in his first two matches, but those situations where he brought others into play and retained the ball have suddenly evaporated. He's getting more and more direct, and when Cissé is playing they're going for broke every single time and trying to get him in, but often getting caught out to the offside and seeing attacks break down...and guess what, yep, free kicks and opportunities for other teams to launch balls in and build attacks from there.
Going off on a tangent here, but really... |
Could we just send this direct to MH et al?
Good post Neil, thought-provoking. |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
| |
| Open Al R's tonight on 20:08 - Nov 7 with 1260 views | Neil_SI |
| Open Al R's tonight on 19:01 - Nov 7 by THEBUSH |
A question Neil, do you think our coaching staff understand what you've just said ?
Because for me they would understand, so why isn't it happening, is it all down to Mark Hughes !! |
I really don't know — but I'm sure they know a lot more about this stuff than we do. It's easy for us to pass judgement when we're not in the thick of it and we should be mindful about that.
I think it comes down to values, beliefs and style and ultimately what you want to pay attention to. They may disagree with some or all of my analysis and have their own view on what the problems are. | | | |
| Open Al R's tonight on 21:52 - Nov 7 with 1225 views | Vish |
Not had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, but was formation or Faurlin mentioned? | | | |
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