| Fans on the board 08:33 - May 10 with 5454 views | Pikey |
Interested to hear views on Govt proposal of fans ( or fan) on board. We know a club like ours needs owners with deep pockets so what would a fan on thd board achieve?
For instance who would nominate that fan? Would it need to be from one of the recognised groups? Or a randomly selected season ticket holder?
How would we ,the fans, ensure that person didnt simply work to his/ her own agenda that could be very different from the majority.
If we just read through the postings on various subjects on this forum we can see how hard it can be to get a consensus on a variety of important issues.
Having one person on the board is unlikely to change anything apart from possibly transparency although when we used to have union reps on company boards a lot of delicate discussions took place away from the boardroom.
Just throwing it out there, would be interested to hear the views if others
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| Fans on the board on 08:40 - May 10 with 3767 views | Rangersw12 |
In principle I think its a good thing and I would hope fan(s) would apply for the position and then we would vote for the best candidate .
Problem with Rangers is that there are too many egos , I mean for the size of the club how many fan groups do we have with infighting and agendas . You only have to look at the stick Clive has had over the years just for doing a website .
We couldn't even do the Stan Bowles stuff without infighting etc | | | |
| Fans on the board on 08:58 - May 10 with 3745 views | slmrstid |
To be honest I'm a bit wary of this. A fan on a board level, to be anything more than a box ticking exercise, needs to be someone who is actually qualified to work at that level in their regular day job to have any chance of truly understanding the full business and footballing operations of the club.
Otherwise they will be so far in over their heads that they will simply be overrun in any meetings and be next to useless.
And whilst as fans we are naturally emotional, you cannot be in the position of being in a board position and then knee jerking after every win, draw or loss.
Its just a populist soundbite move to me, unless it can be someone who can actually be effective at that sort of level. |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 09:04 - May 10 with 3733 views | daveB |
The club should have put Andy Evans on the board years ago |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 09:15 - May 10 with 3717 views | Phildo |
Listening to Dotties dad on the pod explaining the grief he has had from trolls can you imagine the cr@p a fan rep would get. Not that I am opposed in principle but it would be a tough job. |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 11:04 - May 10 with 3615 views | PinnerPaul |
If I'm sitting there putting in over £1M PER MONTH to keep the club going, how much am I REALLY going to listen to someone putting in £0 per month, no matter how much they 'care'.
Others have raised other good points above as well. | | | |
| Fans on the board on 11:44 - May 10 with 3558 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fans on the board on 11:04 - May 10 by PinnerPaul |
If I'm sitting there putting in over £1M PER MONTH to keep the club going, how much am I REALLY going to listen to someone putting in £0 per month, no matter how much they 'care'.
Others have raised other good points above as well. |
This will be news to me and the other 50,000 fans who pay in match day revenue, merchandise, official streams, and Sky TV which all ends up in QPR's pockets.
That's before petrol, trains tickets, and away tickets.
Like the other thousand threads on this subject; it demonstrably works. I am sad how easily we defer to those with a few quid. [Post edited 10 May 2022 11:45]
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| Fans on the board on 12:29 - May 10 with 3487 views | QPR_Jim |
| Fans on the board on 11:44 - May 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
This will be news to me and the other 50,000 fans who pay in match day revenue, merchandise, official streams, and Sky TV which all ends up in QPR's pockets.
That's before petrol, trains tickets, and away tickets.
Like the other thousand threads on this subject; it demonstrably works. I am sad how easily we defer to those with a few quid. [Post edited 10 May 2022 11:45]
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My assumption would be that a fan on the board would have the clubs best interests at heart which would assist the club in making better decisions and hopefully put us in a better position. This in turn would benefit the shareholders.
The money men appreciate that they don't know the football side of things so defer to manager, DoF, scouts etc for the best outcome. Why not do the same with a fans representative to give an inside knowledge of decisions which effect the fans? |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 12:40 - May 10 with 3468 views | slmrstid |
| Fans on the board on 11:44 - May 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
This will be news to me and the other 50,000 fans who pay in match day revenue, merchandise, official streams, and Sky TV which all ends up in QPR's pockets.
That's before petrol, trains tickets, and away tickets.
Like the other thousand threads on this subject; it demonstrably works. I am sad how easily we defer to those with a few quid. [Post edited 10 May 2022 11:45]
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I do think you're right in that it can demonstrably work (as Exeter and Portsmouth have shown - although interestingly I have also read the Portsmouth fan owners explain they eventually sold out because they didn't think the fan ownership aspect could take the club above League One ("The Lies and Fall of OwnaFC" being the source there)).
I'm at risk of cross-purposing here as fan ownership and board reps are two different things - although of course being fan owned means you've got a fan board.
My main concern from the whole exercise comes from having someone who is competent enough to be there in the first place and hold their own and have a genuine impact.
With the greatest will in the world, Dave from Tesco could be the ultimate and most popular fan, but he's unlikely to be anything other than completely overwhelmed by being in a boardroom situation and that's where my concern comes from.
On the other hand - wasn't the bloke who owned/ran CarGiant as MD meant to be a QPR fan? Just using him as an example so lets say he is for now - he is someone who could probably come onto a board as a fan rep and kick some butt and hold his own comfortably.
Call me a cynic but I could see a club (any club, not just us) deliberately putting a fan in that sort of position that they can basically override and control, rather than someone to help hold them accountable and have a genuine impact. | | | |
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| Fans on the board on 13:15 - May 10 with 3425 views | joe90 |
A fan on the board will only work if the corporate structure and governance of the club is in good working order - which given the events of the past few weeks, isn't the case.
There needs to be a very clear line on what fans can and can not give input on. The role needs to be carefully positioned so it is not subsumed into the bureaucratic structure rendering it ineffective.
It needs to hold those in power to account on issues that impact the integrity of the club but doesn't impede on difficult business decisions.
It's a fine balance and one I don't think can be achieved given the nature of football. I'd be interested to see some case studies of where it's worked and what's been achieved. |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 13:34 - May 10 with 3375 views | PunteR |
Isn't that what Les Ferdinand is there for? Someone who knows the club ,has an affinity with the club and has its best interest at heart rather then purely a business venture. Also has the benefit of knowing the game inside and out..?
Or is that DoF role slightly compromised?
Struggling to think what a run of the mill football fan will bring to the boardroom.
Cheaper tickets.
Cheaper food and drink.
Better beer.
No more 12.30 kick offs
Need better strikers
Need LB
Need RB
Hand dryers need improvement....
Etc etc |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Fans on the board on 14:14 - May 10 with 3371 views | daveB |
| Fans on the board on 11:04 - May 10 by PinnerPaul |
If I'm sitting there putting in over £1M PER MONTH to keep the club going, how much am I REALLY going to listen to someone putting in £0 per month, no matter how much they 'care'.
Others have raised other good points above as well. |
Maybe it would help them to stop losing money by understanding more about the club and culture from day 1. By the time the current lot seemed to understand what QPR were it was too late and they'd blown all the money | | | |
| Fans on the board on 14:25 - May 10 with 3324 views | Juzzie |
| Fans on the board on 13:34 - May 10 by PunteR |
Isn't that what Les Ferdinand is there for? Someone who knows the club ,has an affinity with the club and has its best interest at heart rather then purely a business venture. Also has the benefit of knowing the game inside and out..?
Or is that DoF role slightly compromised?
Struggling to think what a run of the mill football fan will bring to the boardroom.
Cheaper tickets.
Cheaper food and drink.
Better beer.
No more 12.30 kick offs
Need better strikers
Need LB
Need RB
Hand dryers need improvement....
Etc etc |
Cheaper tickets = income down
Cheaper food and drink. = income down
Better beer = income down
No more 12.30 kick offs = income down (less Sky money)
Need better strikers = expenditure up
Need LB = expenditure up
Need RB = expenditure up
Hand dryers need improvement.... = expenditure up
How/who is going to offset the difference? having lower player salaries would be the main option but then you'll only get what you are willing to pay for so pretty much take promotion out of the equation.
[Post edited 10 May 2022 15:11]
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| Fans on the board on 14:29 - May 10 with 3317 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Fans on the board on 13:34 - May 10 by PunteR |
Isn't that what Les Ferdinand is there for? Someone who knows the club ,has an affinity with the club and has its best interest at heart rather then purely a business venture. Also has the benefit of knowing the game inside and out..?
Or is that DoF role slightly compromised?
Struggling to think what a run of the mill football fan will bring to the boardroom.
Cheaper tickets.
Cheaper food and drink.
Better beer.
No more 12.30 kick offs
Need better strikers
Need LB
Need RB
Hand dryers need improvement....
Etc etc |
I’m not sure the DOF needs to have any sort of affinity with the fans. Accountable to fans yes but not representative. It’s more of a link between first team management, recruitment, development squad and the owners. I think Neil Warnock highlighted a need for the position at QPR when he was manager, specifically between management and owners. |  |
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| Fans on the board on 15:13 - May 10 with 3252 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
This is a particular special interest of mine. You may have noticed.
The article below has been posted before on a few threads but I really recommend reading it properly again.
The Motherwell template is the ideal for me, but fan ownership and governance (different things but both in our interests) can take many forms and dismissing all systems because one wouldn't work is a shame. I think the best way for our particular circumstances is an elected fan on the board directing advising on fan matters. The areas that Hook and Ferdinand have no expertise in.
Even if overspend is a issue for the shareholders, at the very least an elected fan can make recommendations on the zero cost aspects of the match experience and fan engagement.
If they can afford to have Jamie Reuben they can afford to have John Smith from L Block.
I've worked with Derek and my org is about to release an hour long podcast on the subject which I'll be sure to share when it's released.
Incidentally, Motherwell are in contention for Europe.
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/how-motherwell-is-leading-the-way-for-fan-owned | | | |
| Fans on the board on 17:29 - May 10 with 3146 views | themodfather |
seems to me a good idea to have fans on the board but bbc news has cardiff owner Tan saying he doesn't recognise their fans trust!?
for me tv pays it's money but dictates to much, clubs must realise they are the product and have a voice. sending say qpr fans to effing NEWCASTLE for a noon ko on a sunday , well that still rankles . regionalise those times not send fans to opposite ends of the galaxy!
police used to have input on fixtures, times...do they now/
football is already a luxury and expensive, many simply cannot afford to go or have cut back.
myself i pretty much stopped going as fans are treated like dog muck , near criminalised and utter unfairness of fair play!>> ??? the gulf is getting wider, who'd have thought crystal palace, skint a few years ago are now possibly bigger than us! and that hurts to write.... | | | |
| Fans on the board on 17:59 - May 10 with 3118 views | PinnerPaul |
| Fans on the board on 17:29 - May 10 by themodfather |
seems to me a good idea to have fans on the board but bbc news has cardiff owner Tan saying he doesn't recognise their fans trust!?
for me tv pays it's money but dictates to much, clubs must realise they are the product and have a voice. sending say qpr fans to effing NEWCASTLE for a noon ko on a sunday , well that still rankles . regionalise those times not send fans to opposite ends of the galaxy!
police used to have input on fixtures, times...do they now/
football is already a luxury and expensive, many simply cannot afford to go or have cut back.
myself i pretty much stopped going as fans are treated like dog muck , near criminalised and utter unfairness of fair play!>> ??? the gulf is getting wider, who'd have thought crystal palace, skint a few years ago are now possibly bigger than us! and that hurts to write.... |
All fair points, but don't see how having a fan on the board is going to solve that lot, most of which are out of the club's hands in any case. | | | |
| Fans on the board on 18:14 - May 10 with 3108 views | LazyFan |
It may have problems, but long term fan ownership is the way to go.
Let's start with 1 fan, who may be a token, but that's 1 token fan over nothing. Then over time maybe that token fan turns into an influencer and then maybe a game-changer and then maybe we get more of them.
Lean into the correct pather, we may get burned, but over time it will improve. |  |
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| Fans on the board on 08:46 - May 11 with 2898 views | dmm |
| Fans on the board on 15:13 - May 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
This is a particular special interest of mine. You may have noticed.
The article below has been posted before on a few threads but I really recommend reading it properly again.
The Motherwell template is the ideal for me, but fan ownership and governance (different things but both in our interests) can take many forms and dismissing all systems because one wouldn't work is a shame. I think the best way for our particular circumstances is an elected fan on the board directing advising on fan matters. The areas that Hook and Ferdinand have no expertise in.
Even if overspend is a issue for the shareholders, at the very least an elected fan can make recommendations on the zero cost aspects of the match experience and fan engagement.
If they can afford to have Jamie Reuben they can afford to have John Smith from L Block.
I've worked with Derek and my org is about to release an hour long podcast on the subject which I'll be sure to share when it's released.
Incidentally, Motherwell are in contention for Europe.
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/how-motherwell-is-leading-the-way-for-fan-owned |
Thanks for posting the article about Motherwell, Bazza. It's an encouraging read on many levels and perhaps could help us think about the future once our present owners have had enough.
The article also put into stark relief what football has become. The values and culture of Motherwell that it describes are very similar to those that existed in most football clubs when I started supporting QPR many years ago. It's so good to see clubs reviving that community experience society needs so much. |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 08:52 - May 11 with 2884 views | Rangersw12 |
| Fans on the board on 15:13 - May 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
This is a particular special interest of mine. You may have noticed.
The article below has been posted before on a few threads but I really recommend reading it properly again.
The Motherwell template is the ideal for me, but fan ownership and governance (different things but both in our interests) can take many forms and dismissing all systems because one wouldn't work is a shame. I think the best way for our particular circumstances is an elected fan on the board directing advising on fan matters. The areas that Hook and Ferdinand have no expertise in.
Even if overspend is a issue for the shareholders, at the very least an elected fan can make recommendations on the zero cost aspects of the match experience and fan engagement.
If they can afford to have Jamie Reuben they can afford to have John Smith from L Block.
I've worked with Derek and my org is about to release an hour long podcast on the subject which I'll be sure to share when it's released.
Incidentally, Motherwell are in contention for Europe.
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/how-motherwell-is-leading-the-way-for-fan-owned |
Decent article and thanks for posting
A concern is that the money needed to compete n Championship is far more than the Scottish Premier League
I certainly think fan representation at board level should be explored further. | | | |
| Fans on the board on 12:05 - May 11 with 2802 views | PinnerPaul |
| Fans on the board on 18:14 - May 10 by LazyFan |
It may have problems, but long term fan ownership is the way to go.
Let's start with 1 fan, who may be a token, but that's 1 token fan over nothing. Then over time maybe that token fan turns into an influencer and then maybe a game-changer and then maybe we get more of them.
Lean into the correct pather, we may get burned, but over time it will improve. |
Fair point well made | | | |
| Fans on the board on 12:31 - May 11 with 2758 views | joe90 |
| Fans on the board on 15:13 - May 10 by BazzaInTheLoft |
This is a particular special interest of mine. You may have noticed.
The article below has been posted before on a few threads but I really recommend reading it properly again.
The Motherwell template is the ideal for me, but fan ownership and governance (different things but both in our interests) can take many forms and dismissing all systems because one wouldn't work is a shame. I think the best way for our particular circumstances is an elected fan on the board directing advising on fan matters. The areas that Hook and Ferdinand have no expertise in.
Even if overspend is a issue for the shareholders, at the very least an elected fan can make recommendations on the zero cost aspects of the match experience and fan engagement.
If they can afford to have Jamie Reuben they can afford to have John Smith from L Block.
I've worked with Derek and my org is about to release an hour long podcast on the subject which I'll be sure to share when it's released.
Incidentally, Motherwell are in contention for Europe.
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/04/how-motherwell-is-leading-the-way-for-fan-owned |
What organisation do you work for and why is this of particular interest to you?
What makes you think such a scheme would work at QPR?
Personally I think as club and with our history, location and fans we don't have the necessary characteristics to make such a thing work. The relationship between the fans, club and local community is too disjointed to work. Too many of our fans no longer live in the local area, and too many of the local community support other teams. There isn't significant unifying characteristic between the fans and the club unlike other clubs who may be from a town with a link to a particular industry. London is too transient and culturally broad. | | | |
| Fans on the board on 15:59 - May 11 with 2675 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fans on the board on 12:31 - May 11 by joe90 |
What organisation do you work for and why is this of particular interest to you?
What makes you think such a scheme would work at QPR?
Personally I think as club and with our history, location and fans we don't have the necessary characteristics to make such a thing work. The relationship between the fans, club and local community is too disjointed to work. Too many of our fans no longer live in the local area, and too many of the local community support other teams. There isn't significant unifying characteristic between the fans and the club unlike other clubs who may be from a town with a link to a particular industry. London is too transient and culturally broad. |
Even if you really believe that, you are describing the symptoms and I am describing fan governance as a potential cure.
Personally, I don’t think this club is disjointed any more than any other club. You should read the article because Motherwell’s situation before fan ownership was dire. If you want another urban London club as an example consider AFC Wimbledon or Brentford. Two very different systems granted, but both have benefitted according to their size.
LazyFan has it right. Why would anyone turn their nose up at it, token or otherwise? [Post edited 11 May 2022 16:12]
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| Fans on the board on 16:09 - May 11 with 2665 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Fans on the board on 08:52 - May 11 by Rangersw12 |
Decent article and thanks for posting
A concern is that the money needed to compete n Championship is far more than the Scottish Premier League
I certainly think fan representation at board level should be explored further. |
In Germany they have the 51+ model across the board. Everyone is in the same boat then.
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/german-soccer-rules-50-1-fifty-plu [Post edited 11 May 2022 16:11]
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| Fans on the board on 16:16 - May 11 with 2654 views | Northernr |
Whatever the merits or drawbacks, you'd have to be certifiably insane to want to do that job at QPR. |  | | |
| Fans on the board on 16:42 - May 11 with 2600 views | stantheman10 |
If you wanted a fan on the board who knows the game then surely Marc Bircham, Lee Cook or Uncs (when he hangs his boots up) would be ideal candidates | | | |
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