| Lisa Clement 22:40 - Feb 17 with 6617 views | builthjack |
Tied the Trust board in knots tonight.
It looks like Dalton, Rupert etc didnt have a bloody clue what they were signing.
It really is unbelievable. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Lisa Clement on 16:02 - Feb 18 with 1576 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 16:00 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They have given the Trust what they asked for. Some form of protection the 5%.
The £500k is relatively small beer and possibly a small acceptance by them of failing to resolve the issue earlier. It needed a master networker Silverstein to smooth thing s over and come to s settlement.
It gives the reasonable people in the Trust something to show for their efforts.
the fact that the protected 5% can be sold puts a whole new complexion on the deal. In the event of promotion to the PL it would be worth at least £10m.
The Trust retain most of their shares and Swansea should be able to return to the PL in the next 25 years. Their holding will probably not fall below 10% or so, Inflation is currently running at faster than dilution. Premier league team are not getting cheaper. |
Yes so by conceding these concessions, the Americans / sellouts admit they were in the wrong. |  |
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| Lisa Clement on 16:27 - Feb 18 with 1530 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 16:02 - Feb 18 by Chief |
Yes so by conceding these concessions, the Americans / sellouts admit they were in the wrong. |
Life is not black and white Chief. This farce has gone on for too long and simply worked itself to a highly predicted conclusion. No funders and a 30% chance of obliteration. (after SIX YEARS). The Trust activist are primarily to blame by taking a confrontational position when all they had to do was to prepare the membership to give them a mandate to sell. (anytime after 2012) . The sellers and US owners have accepted some repsonibility and coughhed up. Decent people in my view.
In investment terms a 10,000% gain is stupendous. They did not cash in because
a) it was not their money.
b) They are financially unsophisticated.
The Trust members were not keen on 10,000% return given to the by the work of HJ, but perfectly satisfied with the 0.15%given to them by the Santander bank (67,000% less)
Trust dignitaries are talking about Dilution but not inflation (now 5.5%) which is equally damaging.
Business investment advice urgently needed. If the Model Rules do not allow for protection from inflation the rule by which the Trust are working need to be changed. 0.15% or even 1% is b not sustainable in these inflation days. The Trust will simple wither away without actin.
[Post edited 18 Feb 2022 17:11]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 16:41 - Feb 18 with 1515 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 16:27 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Life is not black and white Chief. This farce has gone on for too long and simply worked itself to a highly predicted conclusion. No funders and a 30% chance of obliteration. (after SIX YEARS). The Trust activist are primarily to blame by taking a confrontational position when all they had to do was to prepare the membership to give them a mandate to sell. (anytime after 2012) . The sellers and US owners have accepted some repsonibility and coughhed up. Decent people in my view.
In investment terms a 10,000% gain is stupendous. They did not cash in because
a) it was not their money.
b) They are financially unsophisticated.
The Trust members were not keen on 10,000% return given to the by the work of HJ, but perfectly satisfied with the 0.15%given to them by the Santander bank (67,000% less)
Trust dignitaries are talking about Dilution but not inflation (now 5.5%) which is equally damaging.
Business investment advice urgently needed. If the Model Rules do not allow for protection from inflation the rule by which the Trust are working need to be changed. 0.15% or even 1% is b not sustainable in these inflation days. The Trust will simple wither away without actin.
[Post edited 18 Feb 2022 17:11]
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Obliterated to what? Basically where they are now.
Nonsense, the trust have given the Americans a ridiculous amount of chances to sort this over the years.
Prince Andrew accepted some responsibility and coughed up too.
What return have the trust had then? Whatever influence Huw Jenkins and others had years ago is completely irrelevant. Doesn't give them a free pass to act as they like afterwards. And be non compliant to the point having having to rely on a weak trust board and having money (because ironically he sold his share) to thank for not having a civil court judgement against his name.
Fact is the Americans and sellouts have got away very lucky. The sellouts especially should feel ashamed of themselves, although it's pretty clear that they aren't capable of experiencing that emotion. They'll be celebrating no doubt but it's pathetic. They were in the wrong and decided to tease a weak trust board with an offer because they didn't have the balls to go to court. Them settling speaks volumes. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 17:09 - Feb 18 with 1479 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 16:41 - Feb 18 by Chief |
Obliterated to what? Basically where they are now.
Nonsense, the trust have given the Americans a ridiculous amount of chances to sort this over the years.
Prince Andrew accepted some responsibility and coughed up too.
What return have the trust had then? Whatever influence Huw Jenkins and others had years ago is completely irrelevant. Doesn't give them a free pass to act as they like afterwards. And be non compliant to the point having having to rely on a weak trust board and having money (because ironically he sold his share) to thank for not having a civil court judgement against his name.
Fact is the Americans and sellouts have got away very lucky. The sellouts especially should feel ashamed of themselves, although it's pretty clear that they aren't capable of experiencing that emotion. They'll be celebrating no doubt but it's pathetic. They were in the wrong and decided to tease a weak trust board with an offer because they didn't have the balls to go to court. Them settling speaks volumes. |
The trust stated this which i take to be correct.
{To proceed with legal action (but with the risk of exposing the Trust to potentially consuming all of its funds and having to find an additional funder to see the case through to its natural conclusion). Note —the Trust would also have had to advise members that proceeding with this option would in all probability resulted in a period of 2-3 years of litigation that would significantly undermine the Trust’s ability to influence the running of the football club.}
There was no "no win no fee" deal available by the looks of it . "Risking all its funds" would be £880,000 and needing an extra funder for another £1m or so perhaps. If the member want it they can pay. £1000 each. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 17:16 - Feb 18 with 1472 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 17:09 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The trust stated this which i take to be correct.
{To proceed with legal action (but with the risk of exposing the Trust to potentially consuming all of its funds and having to find an additional funder to see the case through to its natural conclusion). Note —the Trust would also have had to advise members that proceeding with this option would in all probability resulted in a period of 2-3 years of litigation that would significantly undermine the Trust’s ability to influence the running of the football club.}
There was no "no win no fee" deal available by the looks of it . "Risking all its funds" would be £880,000 and needing an extra funder for another £1m or so perhaps. If the member want it they can pay. £1000 each. |
Don't believe that. The vast majority of hours would be involving people no longer involved with the trust board. Not like the trust are instrumental as it is. Last to know everything as it stands.
So you're comment about the members not contributing was nonsense then wasn't it. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 17:17 - Feb 18 with 1470 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 08:00 - Feb 18 by Tummer_from_Texas |
Not to be nitpicky, but US point of view is understood as nothing beyond the Levien/Kaplan point of view, right?
I've seen no sign that any of the Stateside Jacks think any different of those a-holes than the locals do, nor are any less frustrated with them.
I don't speak for anyone but me, but I want them out ASAP as much as Builth and everyone else here.
Sorry, this thread is about the trust developments, an infinitely more pressing topic, just needed to throw that out there. Carry on.  |
As a Welsh local am pretty happy with what they are doing. Swansea city historically are a Premier league club. They appear to me to be going about things in the righ way to give the club the best chance of promotion. They have two chairman on the board who have been promoted as shareholders a good director of football and a manager who will stay calm. He and the board are v building quietly.
The radicals and activist elements of the ownership group have been routed and hopefully sidelined for good. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 17:42 - Feb 18 with 1447 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 17:17 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
As a Welsh local am pretty happy with what they are doing. Swansea city historically are a Premier league club. They appear to me to be going about things in the righ way to give the club the best chance of promotion. They have two chairman on the board who have been promoted as shareholders a good director of football and a manager who will stay calm. He and the board are v building quietly.
The radicals and activist elements of the ownership group have been routed and hopefully sidelined for good. |
"hopefully sidelined for good."
You didn't believe that nonsense in the official club release about mutually working together going forward either then. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 18:33 - Feb 18 with 1393 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Lisa Clement on 12:17 - Feb 18 by builthjack |
Hi Tummer, hope all is well with you.
When i say Yanks, I actually mean the owners, not the fans.
I have met many stateside Jacks over the years, lovely people. |
Thank builth, yes I figured that, just wanted to reiterate that those of us I know are on your side. But again, didn't want to get sidetracked on a thread about much more important issues. Thanks again! |  |
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| Lisa Clement on 18:33 - Feb 18 with 1393 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 17:42 - Feb 18 by Chief |
"hopefully sidelined for good."
You didn't believe that nonsense in the official club release about mutually working together going forward either then. |
Some folk are suited to conflict and other suited for constructive working. The Trust if they are serious about being 'protector of the faith' need to concentrate on making money not running the club with veto powers.
The club have some experience and reliable professional in place to do that. Winter on he board Morgan Jenkins, Mr Allen for example. Past players in the academy Britton and O'Leary who have already made their mark.
Martin is demanding patience and in response is not sulking when he does not get his way like Potter and Cooper did with their "January Blues" 2018 and 2020. .
I back Mr Dalton who had his 'Kinnock moment' this week according to my narrative. That 5% could be a a massive asset in the future especially if they expand the stadium. These seem far way now but then so does the Vetch field and John Hollins.
Winter will no longer be "scurrying around Swansea in taxis handing out redundancy notices". | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 19:03 - Feb 18 with 1354 views | BillyChong |
Lisa tied the board and their legal representation in knots. It’s a shame the new trust board had some sort of agenda which kept information away from the more street wise hard hitters, resulting in their resignations. The brains of Lisa and the passion of Nigel Davies alongside others is what the trust needed. A chair who got the role by default, two corporate bods and a load of blank faces wasn’t what we needed at this moment in time. Still, they wouldn’t have found themselves in this position if it wasn’t for the sellouts. |  | | |
| Lisa Clement on 19:12 - Feb 18 with 1347 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 18:33 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Some folk are suited to conflict and other suited for constructive working. The Trust if they are serious about being 'protector of the faith' need to concentrate on making money not running the club with veto powers.
The club have some experience and reliable professional in place to do that. Winter on he board Morgan Jenkins, Mr Allen for example. Past players in the academy Britton and O'Leary who have already made their mark.
Martin is demanding patience and in response is not sulking when he does not get his way like Potter and Cooper did with their "January Blues" 2018 and 2020. .
I back Mr Dalton who had his 'Kinnock moment' this week according to my narrative. That 5% could be a a massive asset in the future especially if they expand the stadium. These seem far way now but then so does the Vetch field and John Hollins.
Winter will no longer be "scurrying around Swansea in taxis handing out redundancy notices". |
As I say, we'll see how this relationship of cooperation lasts for.
I notice the Americans wouldn't actually give any guarantees of when or whether the loans will be converted.
So that's a good start. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 20:43 - Feb 18 with 1257 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 19:12 - Feb 18 by Chief |
As I say, we'll see how this relationship of cooperation lasts for.
I notice the Americans wouldn't actually give any guarantees of when or whether the loans will be converted.
So that's a good start. |
You are a man who likes guarantees and has little faith. it seems, in the spoken word and personal interactions. A firm handshake is often enough in business once CV s are verified and references noted. People with a track record of reliability will most probably be reliable.
Why the the Trust bothered about converting the loans? If the loans are not converted the Trust are not diluted and remain 21% shareholders.
Silvertsein has staked his reputation with the fans the Trust the US and Welsh shareholders by claiming he is a long term investor. He has demonstrated commitment by checking out the landscape meeting all the movers and shakers seen a couple of games over a period a few weeks on station. He has also solved the little problem between the Welsh guys all before lunch. I have faith that he will convert at a or before the term period. It is normally no more than 2 years. I thought I read somewhere it was 5 years but can find no reference for this.
More importantly he has developed friendship and Trust with the individual involved. The previous chairman asked what was to stop the dilution process valuing the Club at undervalued £10m to excessively dilute the Trust. Business people in long standing arrangement do not do this ti business partners and friends. Ideally the Trust should ask to be involved in the next tranch of Convertible loan notes and simple take the interest not buy new shares. This would give them some compensation for dilution.
If he is getting 5% this is not robbery because UK inflation is 5.5% at the moment. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 20:47 - Feb 18 with 1246 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 20:43 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
You are a man who likes guarantees and has little faith. it seems, in the spoken word and personal interactions. A firm handshake is often enough in business once CV s are verified and references noted. People with a track record of reliability will most probably be reliable.
Why the the Trust bothered about converting the loans? If the loans are not converted the Trust are not diluted and remain 21% shareholders.
Silvertsein has staked his reputation with the fans the Trust the US and Welsh shareholders by claiming he is a long term investor. He has demonstrated commitment by checking out the landscape meeting all the movers and shakers seen a couple of games over a period a few weeks on station. He has also solved the little problem between the Welsh guys all before lunch. I have faith that he will convert at a or before the term period. It is normally no more than 2 years. I thought I read somewhere it was 5 years but can find no reference for this.
More importantly he has developed friendship and Trust with the individual involved. The previous chairman asked what was to stop the dilution process valuing the Club at undervalued £10m to excessively dilute the Trust. Business people in long standing arrangement do not do this ti business partners and friends. Ideally the Trust should ask to be involved in the next tranch of Convertible loan notes and simple take the interest not buy new shares. This would give them some compensation for dilution.
If he is getting 5% this is not robbery because UK inflation is 5.5% at the moment. |
Lot of nothingness waffle there.
As I say, the case is wrapped but no timescale for conversion forthcoming. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 21:06 - Feb 18 with 1233 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 20:47 - Feb 18 by Chief |
Lot of nothingness waffle there.
As I say, the case is wrapped but no timescale for conversion forthcoming. |
No conversion no dilution. I thought you did not want dilution. The CLN has a fixed term. it is highly unlikely Winter will be able to settle any loans with out selling a player for £20m | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 21:14 - Feb 18 with 1216 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 21:06 - Feb 18 by ReslovenSwan1 |
No conversion no dilution. I thought you did not want dilution. The CLN has a fixed term. it is highly unlikely Winter will be able to settle any loans with out selling a player for £20m |
Now the trust can't sell at premier league prices anytime soon, I'd rather they convert rather than the club having debts.
What does the fixed term mean? When it ends do they automatically convert? Automatically get their money back? Do a jig?
Either way, the trust signed this agreement yet still no confirmation if or when they'll convert. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 21:24 - Feb 18 with 1205 views | AndyCole |
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Oh dear. Some folk ought to recalibrate their standards, and standards of expectation.
'Lisa of London' is a proper 'B' teamer, from most professionals' perspectives. What the fans deserved was far better pedigree, across the Board. ECB, another way out of depth, doin 'Comms', ffs the worst 'comms' in yonks from someone who rather 'comms' puerile infighting and inter-forum wars.
Witness the shouting n screaming after the horse has bolted. By her and some of the 'failures' - it's rife on another forum, on another planet, in so many ways. It's beyond cringeworthy. It's Comedy central if it weren't so tragic.
Where was the front foot shouting n screaming when it 100% mattered ?
Hindsight doesn't look so pretty on some ex Trust folk right now, in so many ways. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Lisa Clement on 22:05 - Feb 18 with 1169 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 21:24 - Feb 18 by AndyCole |
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Oh dear. Some folk ought to recalibrate their standards, and standards of expectation.
'Lisa of London' is a proper 'B' teamer, from most professionals' perspectives. What the fans deserved was far better pedigree, across the Board. ECB, another way out of depth, doin 'Comms', ffs the worst 'comms' in yonks from someone who rather 'comms' puerile infighting and inter-forum wars.
Witness the shouting n screaming after the horse has bolted. By her and some of the 'failures' - it's rife on another forum, on another planet, in so many ways. It's beyond cringeworthy. It's Comedy central if it weren't so tragic.
Where was the front foot shouting n screaming when it 100% mattered ?
Hindsight doesn't look so pretty on some ex Trust folk right now, in so many ways. |
Your dot game remains poor.
Missed the closing one this time. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 22:55 - Feb 18 with 1139 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Lisa Clement on 21:14 - Feb 18 by Chief |
Now the trust can't sell at premier league prices anytime soon, I'd rather they convert rather than the club having debts.
What does the fixed term mean? When it ends do they automatically convert? Automatically get their money back? Do a jig?
Either way, the trust signed this agreement yet still no confirmation if or when they'll convert. |
Shame the trust didn't have your tenacity. How you continue to engage is a credit to you. |  | | |
| Lisa Clement on 00:16 - Feb 19 with 1081 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Lisa Clement on 21:14 - Feb 18 by Chief |
Now the trust can't sell at premier league prices anytime soon, I'd rather they convert rather than the club having debts.
What does the fixed term mean? When it ends do they automatically convert? Automatically get their money back? Do a jig?
Either way, the trust signed this agreement yet still no confirmation if or when they'll convert. |
The CLN has a fixed end date as I understand it. At that point it has to be either converted or repaid. It is not open ended. I am no expert and had never heard of them before this. I promote common sense not expertise. The information on line talks of generally around 2 year terms.
I am convinced they would not convert until the Trust issue was settled hence Mr Silverstein pushing things along and the Trust getting concessions. Had the Trust issue dragged on they might have had to withdraw the cash and start a new CLN perhaps.
The newly popular Trust should lobby to join the next CLN and make some money to cover the declining membership fees. One idea is to push through the 3g pitches which the club has promised to the council. Giving back to grass roots football is part of the brief. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Lisa Clement on 08:15 - Feb 19 with 998 views | Chief |
| Lisa Clement on 00:16 - Feb 19 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The CLN has a fixed end date as I understand it. At that point it has to be either converted or repaid. It is not open ended. I am no expert and had never heard of them before this. I promote common sense not expertise. The information on line talks of generally around 2 year terms.
I am convinced they would not convert until the Trust issue was settled hence Mr Silverstein pushing things along and the Trust getting concessions. Had the Trust issue dragged on they might have had to withdraw the cash and start a new CLN perhaps.
The newly popular Trust should lobby to join the next CLN and make some money to cover the declining membership fees. One idea is to push through the 3g pitches which the club has promised to the council. Giving back to grass roots football is part of the brief. |
Right so this fixed term thing you brought up has no bearing on whether they'll convert or not then because at the end of the fixed term, the money can be taken back.
As I say the trust issue is over with now, so what's the plan for conversion? What's the hold up? | |
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| Lisa Clement on 09:03 - Feb 19 with 957 views | KeithHaynes |
I’ve never seen such a large amount of people scramble to protect their own credibility rating when they were equally as responsible as anyone else for the situation they claim now to care about. |  |
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| Lisa Clement on 09:30 - Feb 19 with 904 views | builthjack |
| Lisa Clement on 09:03 - Feb 19 by KeithHaynes |
I’ve never seen such a large amount of people scramble to protect their own credibility rating when they were equally as responsible as anyone else for the situation they claim now to care about. |
Many had the chance to do something over the last 6 years or so.
They talked lots, and fed the members/fans stuff that sounded good.
But never actually did anything concrete.
The thing about the legal guy had got ill, he was getting better, but it would be a while. That went on for what seemed about a year or more.
Do they think people are idiots? | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Lisa Clement on 09:44 - Feb 19 with 873 views | trampie |
| Lisa Clement on 09:03 - Feb 19 by KeithHaynes |
I’ve never seen such a large amount of people scramble to protect their own credibility rating when they were equally as responsible as anyone else for the situation they claim now to care about. |
Yes indeed. |  |
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| Lisa Clement on 09:46 - Feb 19 with 862 views | trampie |
| Lisa Clement on 09:30 - Feb 19 by builthjack |
Many had the chance to do something over the last 6 years or so.
They talked lots, and fed the members/fans stuff that sounded good.
But never actually did anything concrete.
The thing about the legal guy had got ill, he was getting better, but it would be a while. That went on for what seemed about a year or more.
Do they think people are idiots? |
People involved in the past (as well as the ones in the present) had the chance and failed. | |
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| Lisa Clement on 09:56 - Feb 19 with 846 views | shaggyrogers |
| Lisa Clement on 09:03 - Feb 19 by KeithHaynes |
I’ve never seen such a large amount of people scramble to protect their own credibility rating when they were equally as responsible as anyone else for the situation they claim now to care about. |
This.
I have sat back and watched this unfold. I then sat back and watched the blame game.
A lot of chest beating going on from ex board members and a lot adulation from their 5 supporters !!!
One thing i did find funny was a post by Baroness Clement on the other forum. She wasn't happy that there was not a statement from the board reference her leaving her role on the board.... so she had to go public .... on planetswans...... to all 30 people !   | | | |
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