What would have been a good point before the game seems to be a disappointment after it due to a red card for Stoke.

Whilst it cannot be dressed up that Saints do have a problem creating and scoring goals at the moment, it should also be noted that in playing poorly we are still keeping our heas above water and keeping pace with the top 7.

So from that point of view if we can achieve this whilst playing badly, then it bodes well for what we can achieve when we start to click, if poor form is 8 points from 6 games a point per game ratio that would have got us into 9th place last season, then that shows how our standards are set higher these days.

It can't be denied that it is disappointing that Saints failed to break down Stoke after the home side had a man sent off after only 25 minutes, but in some respects this did not help us, at that stage we were already on top of the game, afterwards Stoke concentrated on staying behind the ball and keeping a clean sheet and for a side like us low on confidence and creativity that was not an advantage.

We can't buy a goal at the moment, 15 shots yielded only 5 on target and a handful of very nearly goals not on target, not least Jay Rodriguez's lunge that failed to put the ball into an empty net, although the chance was not as easy as it looked due to the attention of a stoke defender.

Others came near to scoring but only yan Bertrand forced a good save from the keeper and that is a point that needs to be addressed.

But when a team is on a run like this they have to look at the plus points and improve on them, we are not conceding goals and that is a good foundation to build on, now we need the confidence that a goal or two brings, at the moment we are scared to gamble, the side are not taking risks, they are playing the percentage balls and trying to create the perfect chance rather than look for the unexpected.

But if Saints can break out of this circle of missed chances then there is every chance we can start scoring, again we have taken a step forward, Stoke is a tough place to go, we can go to Bournemouth with our confidence to keep a clean sheet intact, 4 out of the last 6 games is a good basis, Bournemouth are a team that gambles and we can capitaise on that.

Some will continue to moan about entertainment etc, but I don't support Saints to be entertained, I support them to see them win games and try to add to our solitary trophy win, this season we are as close to that as we have been in all but one season out of the last 30 years, that gives me hope and optismism.

There will be a time for a post mortem of this season, but that is in May, till then we have to give Clause Puel the chance to fashion his own side.

This was not the greatest game in Saints top flight history, but if you think it is anywhere near the worse then you haven't been following this club very long.

Yes we need some passion, fight and enthusiasm in the side, but these are all things that are generated by results and confidence and last night at Stoke was a step nearer.

Photo: Action Images

arthurfane added 14:10 - Dec 15 Prize for obvious statement of the day goes to Nick: "if Saints can break out of this circle of missed chances then there is every chance we can start scoring"
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BoondockSaint added 14:17 - Dec 15 "Saints failed to break down Stoke after the home side had a man sent off after only 25 minutes, but in some respects this did not help us, "????
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davepid added 14:20 - Dec 15 I've run out of adjectives to describe our front men. All I can say , until McQueen dusts down the bike he toured Germany with 70 years ago, we will never break through a defence to score.
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Winchsaint added 14:23 - Dec 15 The problem is the manner of the draw...come back from 3-1 down to get a 3-3 draw and I'd have been thrilled with the point as it means we are creating and converting chances (even if conversely we would also have been defensively suspect) but to grind out a 0-0 against 10 men is just disappointing. In terms of entertainment...well maybe people would be happy if we parked the bus and nicked 1-0 results every week a la Mourinho's Chelsea of old and won everything in sight then maybe we would all be happy, but as that is never going to happen and people pay a lot of money to travel the country (and beyond this season) to watch the team then I think they are entitled to want a bit of entertaining football. Yes, we are not conceding many but I feel that's because we are essentially a jenga tower with VVD as the pivotal piece; take him out and the whole thing may come crashing down...

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corkcitysaint added 14:35 - Dec 15 A case of deja vu again last night. Dominated possession, lots of passes but not going anywhere resulting in either (a) a cross from either wing being easily defended, (b) shoot aimlessly high and or wide from outside the box, (c) get a series of corner kicks which do nothing and (d) free kicks - see point c. We badly need passes that split a defence for Long to run on to. That's when he is at his best. he's not a poacher like a Defoe. We need height in the box if we are going to put crosses in and we need midfielders making runs into the box. At the moment, it is all in front of the opponent and too easy to defend. Thank goodness we have a strong defence (currently).

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highfield49 added 14:48 - Dec 15 Groundhog Day.
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dirk_doone added 15:39 - Dec 15 "Some will continue to moan about entertainment etc, but I don't support Saints to be entertained, I support them to see them win games " The game may have been so dire that you averted your eyes, Nick, so you didn't know the result. But, we didn't win it and that was against 10 men. Time for Les Reed to retire. He made good decisions in the past but nowadays he's just a grumpy old man, getting things wrong. He's stubborn and slow on the uptake. Somebody younger and sharper would have noticed back in the summer that we needed a new striker.

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SaintNick added 16:00 - Dec 15 I know some of you dont like to hear it, but 16 games is no time to make a judgement ona manager, Pochetino only got 18 points in his first 16 league games and Koeman managed the same number of points last season. To write off Puel is just plain short sightedness especially when his record when joining the club is as good as any other manager. Look at McMenemy in his first season Yes we arent scoring much at the moment, but that will change as Puel gets the squad he wants that can play the way he wants to. Of course this doesnt fit the agenda that some want to prove, but the reality is that any manger deserves a little time and the time to judge Puel is at the end of the season till then give him chance. After all a lot of Saints fans have been proved wrong on several occasions in the last couple of years when they have predicted doom and gloom for the club

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Jesus_02 added 16:30 - Dec 15 I think 16 games is a pretty good time to judge a manager to be honest. 80mins with a spare man and no alteration to tactics is a probably long enough time when you have already watched dull unimaginative football for 16 games. I reserved judgement for a long time but I simply can’t see the logic of playing slow build up possession football only to push the ball wide and deliver beautiful crosses into a vertically disadvantaged (but skillful) attacking midfielders Its like practice match for Keepers

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Whatsforpud added 16:40 - Dec 15 Going down to 10 men encourages that side to sit back and defend what they have. It would have been better for us to have played against 11 as the home side would have attacked far more. Can't understand why VVD wasn't told to go centre forward for the last 15 minutes. He always looks more like scoring than anyone. Perhaps he should have started there!
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DPeps added 16:58 - Dec 15 I'm not writing off Puel. It's clear to see that we're seriously compromised by a lack of attacking threat in terms of personnel. None of the strikers we have are prolific at the top level. What annoys me is that the majority of us flagged this up as a problem before the season started, and we're not the ones with experience of running a football club! Don't know if it's short-sightedness, miserliness, or lack of ambition from the club.

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SanMarco added 17:08 - Dec 15 " I don't support Saints to be entertained" - a slightly sad statement in my view. We all accept that no team can ever entertain the whole time but we do need something to excite us. I didn't see the game so will make no comment on it. We are in the fortunate position of knowing exactly what is wrong (and right as well of course). That surely makes it easier to sort things out? None of us are exactly shaking our heads and saying "I wonder what is wrong" are we? Sort it out in January please Claude, or Les or whoever...

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aceofthebase added 17:42 - Dec 15 Without a 'Pelle' type centre forward most of those long crosses are wasted. We need our midfield and wingbacks to get down to the byline and pull the ball back along the ground to our waiting striker. They would be genuine chances rather than a full speed sprint lunge. If you watch MOTD that's how many goals are scored, we rarely make that move. I prefer Martina to Cedric but was frustrated against Stoke that he was given the ball many times but showed no enthusiasm to go forward preferring the old back to someone route. Tadic has lost abit of confidence, Boufal is entertaining (is that what fans want?) , he will get a few more goals. Well done Bertrand for taking a few potshots

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BoondockSaint added 18:26 - Dec 15 We can't really blame Puel as the pool of talent he has to work with is horrible. However, the team should never have been in the position of waiting for "the squad he wants" ----the board should have provided that for him after they signed him!! You would think they would have said, "OK who do you want? We have a ton of money to spend."
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deanosfc8 added 19:40 - Dec 15 Do we have a plan B? we do like for like when Long went off when maybe an extra body in the box was needed. Why not play VD up front! at least for the last 10 minutes. I am losing patients with Puel! Bournemouth could be embarrassing!!
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SaintNick added 20:21 - Dec 15 Jesus 02, look at most successful managers and you will find that they have all had periods where if you had judged them on a 16 game/4 month spell and sacked them then their clubs would have perhaps not have achieved great things.
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bstokesaint added 22:38 - Dec 15 I think the "Groundhog Day" was the most concise and accurate comment in all honesty. Nothing has actually changed in these past few games. It is still too early to lay into Puel, the board messed up in the summer (to be fair for the first time) in not signing a striker when we all said we needed another one (well most of us), the transfer window is still shut and the players that our getting their chances during rotation aren't taking them. And, we are still quite dull, although in Puel's defence it's not like he has a plethora of exciting players at his disposal. On the bright side as Nick points out we have the same amount of points as last season. So we are actually playing well below par and yet are still on track with last season, our best in the PL. In fact this time last year we took just three points from the next four games. So we could go better. The biggest problem until then is working out how we are going to get any goals. Once we've got past that point we need to buy at least quality striker, maybe two. It'll cost us a lot but then that totally serves us right for not addressing this properly back in July.

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halftimeorange added 23:24 - Dec 15 This was the worst and most boring game I have seen any Saints side play since our return to the EPL. Against a poor, pedestrian and tired defence we were hopeless. The game was crying out for some incisiveness, a Josh Sims might have provided in such circumstances. If this carries on much longer there will be dwindling gates at St Marys because, right now, we aren't worth watching and that's the truth.

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SaintNick added 23:40 - Dec 15 Saints 0 Wigan 2 in our first game back was bursting with excitement, then there was Saints 0 Sunderland 1 in the same season. Also try Saints 0 West Brom 0 in Koemans first home game when Pelle was booed after 15 minutes , we had 2 shots on target and only 5 off far worse than either of this weeks game. Watford 0 Saints 0 last season was another corker where we did not manage a single shot on target with a paltry 6 off it. West Brom 0 Saints 0 last season, 1 shot on target, 4 off and Mane missed a sitter and was abused alongside Pelle as the fans gave vent to the fact that we were struggling to score goals I dont mean to belittle you, but the Boro and stoke games where still nowhere near as bad as these games in terms of chances created and excitement

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vanmans added 23:59 - Dec 15 I fully agree with halftimeorange right now we must be the most boring team in the prem. We have sold nearly all our stars and now have a team of average journey men who are struggling to score goals in this league. We need to buy at least 2 good strikers in January and a creative midfielder. I think the football that saints are playing now is as bad as it was when Branfoot was here. I have supported saints for nearly 50 years and this season is becoming one of the worst. We have always had good strikers.

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SanMarco added 00:15 - Dec 16 Mane didn't miss a sitter at WBA last year Nick. The miss you are referring to was not brilliant play but not a sitter like JRod missed on Sunday (and by all accounts at Stoke too). It was JRod who missed the easiest chance of the match with a header in the first half. Of course these are all 'in the eye of the beholder issues'.... It is perfectly true that the three players we sold in the summer weren't always good and we weren't always good when they played but they made a big difference over the season. Pelle scored 4 goals in his three visits to Stoke.... PS Also that Wigan game was our first home match back up so a bit unfair to compare it to the current side.

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Ali_Diarea added 00:52 - Dec 16 In our last ten games (EPL and Europa) we have scored SIX goals. 0.6 goals per game. One goal every 150 minutes of football. At the start of the season those saying that we needed more strikers were accused of being bedwetters, and not to worry because Redmond would score ten, long would score ten, jrod would score ten and Austin would score ten. By my reckoning we're gonna be about 30 goals short.

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steve73 added 07:25 - Dec 16 Curious article. Each to their own of course but I most certainly DO support Saints to be entertained. Obviously winning helps but I is it really the be all and end all? If it was then I probably would've chosen to support Liverpool when I was a kid. I've always loved the excitement of being a Saints supporter. Even when it's been bad it's been great. I've not felt so disconnected from the team as I do right now. It's not just the club's fault of course, modern football is financially healthy but very sick in just about every other way.

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SaintNick added 09:00 - Dec 16 Looking back on here at the verdicts on the games mentioned it is uncanny how they could describe Saints recent games, the game at west brom for instance "Yes another clean sheet from Saints but little inventiveness going forward as Saints dominated the game to remain unbeaten on the road. The statistics say a lot about this game, Saints had 65% possession, restricted the home side to just 4 shots with only 1 on target and looked comfortable throughout yet they had few moments of note in the West Brom penalty area despite 14 attempts on goal " Sound familiar

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SaintNick added 09:08 - Dec 16 Ali makes a point about our last 10 games in the EPL and Europa yielding only 6 goals (although not including the league cup distorts the view a little) But if we apply the same criteria to the 10 games prior to that then we scored 13 goals which is over double at 1.3 per game an average that only the top 5 plus west brom are currently beating. So we have proved we can score goals which perhaps gives hope that we can turn the lack of them around

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