| Football Governance Bill on 10:07 - Mar 6 with 1890 views | QPRConor2000 |
Unfortunately, I completely disagree with your comments.
Organisations such as the FA, The EFL and the Premier League have failed in their duty to protect their clubs from rogue owners for far too long. The cases of Hereford United, Bury, Macclesfield, Reading, Bolton all come to mind.
You also fail to mention in your articles that the regulator would give fans a bigger say in their clubs over heritage items such as kits, badges as well as their stadium.
I get that this regulator isn't perfect, and it certainly won't solve every issue, however when governance from the top has failed the game for far too long, there has to be a tipping point, and whilst I'm normally against this, its got to that point now. [Post edited 6 Mar 14:09]
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| Football Governance Bill on 10:42 - Mar 6 with 1816 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Oh goody, another government regulator.
How have regulator's worked out in other areas? Anyone able to point to tangible benefits passed on to the people?
Football unable to regulate itself. Governments rarely capable of governing properly: What could possibly go wrong?
My money is on it being a load of old monkey pooh, and I bet SLF is in the frame for it!! |  |
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| Football Governance Bill on 11:02 - Mar 6 with 1776 views | kensalriser |
No thanks. Claire Fox is an extremist nutcase and sure enough, a little way in the politically charged agenda is revealed. |  |
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| Football Governance Bill on 12:37 - Mar 6 with 1642 views | TheChef |
| Football Governance Bill on 11:02 - Mar 6 by kensalriser |
No thanks. Claire Fox is an extremist nutcase and sure enough, a little way in the politically charged agenda is revealed. |
Ha quite!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Fox
Affiliations with the Brexit Party and Revolutionary Communist Party - so she's both loony left and loony right??  |  |
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| Football Governance Bill on 15:13 - Mar 6 with 1495 views | GaryHaddock |
State asset allegedly. |  | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 15:17 - Mar 6 with 1481 views | TheChef |
| Football Governance Bill on 15:13 - Mar 6 by GaryHaddock |
State asset allegedly. |
Well she is quite the playa!  | |
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| Football Governance Bill on 15:19 - Mar 6 with 1469 views | daveB |
It's a good idea in theory but not sure it will actually work |  | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 12:15 - Mar 7 with 1185 views | LazyFan |
The only model that works is ownership by the fans.
Even if you have great owners like ours, one day they leave or die or something else rotten happens in another business of theirs.
Either way, one day, they will be gone.
To sustain and ensure a club survives, the only recourse is fan ownership.
Everything else is delaying the inevitable destruction, which is proven by what has already happened to many clubs, not all of them came back, either. |  |
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| Football Governance Bill on 15:09 - Mar 7 with 1091 views | derbyhoop |
| Football Governance Bill on 12:15 - Mar 7 by LazyFan |
The only model that works is ownership by the fans.
Even if you have great owners like ours, one day they leave or die or something else rotten happens in another business of theirs.
Either way, one day, they will be gone.
To sustain and ensure a club survives, the only recourse is fan ownership.
Everything else is delaying the inevitable destruction, which is proven by what has already happened to many clubs, not all of them came back, either. |
Good idea.
How many of us have a couple of million spare? Year after year. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Football Governance Bill on 19:38 - Mar 7 with 966 views | stevec |
| Football Governance Bill on 12:15 - Mar 7 by LazyFan |
The only model that works is ownership by the fans.
Even if you have great owners like ours, one day they leave or die or something else rotten happens in another business of theirs.
Either way, one day, they will be gone.
To sustain and ensure a club survives, the only recourse is fan ownership.
Everything else is delaying the inevitable destruction, which is proven by what has already happened to many clubs, not all of them came back, either. |
You do realise that for the 15000 of us that show up at LR to cover the wage bill alone, each and every one of us would have to stump up about £1500 a year. TV and gate receipts (assuming we were still paying to get in) might just about cover most of the other overheads.
Are you sure you’ve thought this through? |  | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 19:44 - Mar 7 with 961 views | KensalT |
| Football Governance Bill on 10:42 - Mar 6 by PlanetHonneywood |
Oh goody, another government regulator.
How have regulator's worked out in other areas? Anyone able to point to tangible benefits passed on to the people?
Football unable to regulate itself. Governments rarely capable of governing properly: What could possibly go wrong?
My money is on it being a load of old monkey pooh, and I bet SLF is in the frame for it!! |
The Bill requires clubs to consult fans on ticket prices:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/football-governance-bill-2024-support
Given that football is far more expensive to watch here than the rest of Europe I would say this is long overdue:
https://onefootball.com/en/news/most-expensive-and-most-affordable-season-ticket
Top 10 expensive adult season tickets in Europe
Arsenal – £1,073
Tottenham Hotspur – £856
Chelsea – £810
Liverpool – £713
Newcastle United – £662
Aston Villa – £640
Bournemouth – £633
Fulham – £619
Brighton – £595
Manchester United – £579
Top 10 affordable adult season tickets in Europe
Stade Brestois – £42
Osasuna – £42
Hellas Verona – £59
Le Havre – £101
Montpellier – £110
Hoffenheim – £126
Wolfsburg – £135
Angers – £143
Bayern Munich – £143
Heidenheim – £147 | | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 22:06 - Mar 7 with 881 views | GaryHaddock |
| Football Governance Bill on 15:09 - Mar 7 by derbyhoop |
Good idea.
How many of us have a couple of million spare? Year after year. |
There are million threads on this forum about how it’s worked in this country and others. If we are making a £2m a month loss to finish 16th every year maybe we shouldn’t be here (the Championship) anyway.
No need to take a tone about it either way. I can’t see what’s controversial about what LazyFan has said. [Post edited 7 Mar 22:37]
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| Football Governance Bill on 22:06 - Mar 7 with 880 views | GaryHaddock |
| Football Governance Bill on 19:38 - Mar 7 by stevec |
You do realise that for the 15000 of us that show up at LR to cover the wage bill alone, each and every one of us would have to stump up about £1500 a year. TV and gate receipts (assuming we were still paying to get in) might just about cover most of the other overheads.
Are you sure you’ve thought this through? |
As above. | | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 22:27 - Mar 7 with 856 views | GroveR |
On any given day, any club can beat any other club. If you change that competitive nature and it becomes more predictable, broadcast revenues reduce [and] if you affect the broadcast value of the Premier League - the only funder of the entire pyramid, nobody else funds it - you affect the whole pyramid and to do that would be reckless and wrong…
Thanks Baroness Brady, I was wondering how football got along before 1992. I can predict one thing with absolute utter certainty and that's that West Ham won't win the Premier League while I have a hole in my arsenal. |  | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 04:04 - Mar 8 with 757 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Football Governance Bill on 19:44 - Mar 7 by KensalT |
The Bill requires clubs to consult fans on ticket prices:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/football-governance-bill-2024-support
Given that football is far more expensive to watch here than the rest of Europe I would say this is long overdue:
https://onefootball.com/en/news/most-expensive-and-most-affordable-season-ticket
Top 10 expensive adult season tickets in Europe
Arsenal – £1,073
Tottenham Hotspur – £856
Chelsea – £810
Liverpool – £713
Newcastle United – £662
Aston Villa – £640
Bournemouth – £633
Fulham – £619
Brighton – £595
Manchester United – £579
Top 10 affordable adult season tickets in Europe
Stade Brestois – £42
Osasuna – £42
Hellas Verona – £59
Le Havre – £101
Montpellier – £110
Hoffenheim – £126
Wolfsburg – £135
Angers – £143
Bayern Munich – £143
Heidenheim – £147 |
I'd wager now, that the 'consulting' will see the clubs point to the fact they sell many seats at lower prices and while taking on board the fans views, here's your prices: take it or leave it!
I asked earlier if there are any examples of effective regulators in other areas, none seen yet. I suspect that the football regulator will be the source of sternly worded leters, expressing disappointment at outcomes, and little in the way of action, rendering fans breathless with awe.
Just by the by, I looked on Munich's website and while no doubt you can get a ST £143, is that seating or standing? You can also pay up to €80 for a match ticket rising to €130 if its a European Cup match. So, Harry isn't giving them all away for zilch. https://fcbayern.com/en/tickets/info/prices-and-concessions | |
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| Football Governance Bill on 07:26 - Mar 8 with 700 views | Gus_iom |
| Football Governance Bill on 04:04 - Mar 8 by PlanetHonneywood |
I'd wager now, that the 'consulting' will see the clubs point to the fact they sell many seats at lower prices and while taking on board the fans views, here's your prices: take it or leave it!
I asked earlier if there are any examples of effective regulators in other areas, none seen yet. I suspect that the football regulator will be the source of sternly worded leters, expressing disappointment at outcomes, and little in the way of action, rendering fans breathless with awe.
Just by the by, I looked on Munich's website and while no doubt you can get a ST £143, is that seating or standing? You can also pay up to €80 for a match ticket rising to €130 if its a European Cup match. So, Harry isn't giving them all away for zilch. https://fcbayern.com/en/tickets/info/prices-and-concessions |
Yeah, when I hear the word 'consult', I sigh and turn away. | | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 09:48 - Mar 8 with 547 views | KensalT |
| Football Governance Bill on 04:04 - Mar 8 by PlanetHonneywood |
I'd wager now, that the 'consulting' will see the clubs point to the fact they sell many seats at lower prices and while taking on board the fans views, here's your prices: take it or leave it!
I asked earlier if there are any examples of effective regulators in other areas, none seen yet. I suspect that the football regulator will be the source of sternly worded leters, expressing disappointment at outcomes, and little in the way of action, rendering fans breathless with awe.
Just by the by, I looked on Munich's website and while no doubt you can get a ST £143, is that seating or standing? You can also pay up to €80 for a match ticket rising to €130 if its a European Cup match. So, Harry isn't giving them all away for zilch. https://fcbayern.com/en/tickets/info/prices-and-concessions |
If you want an example of effective regulation then how about American banking after the Great Depression of 1929:
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/011916/brief-history-us-banking-
Tight financial regulation remained in place for over 50 years before regulation started to be loosened in the 1980's.
Depending on your politics you might argue that regulation stifled growth and loosening regulation was a good thing.
But the Great Depression led to 9,000 banks failing:
https://www.ssa.gov/history/bank.html#:~:text=In%20all%2C%209%2C000%20banks%20fa
The introduction of tight banking regulations led to a significant drop in bank failures for 50 years, until regulations were loosened and banks started failing again in large numbers in the 1980's:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/11/most-u-s-bank-failures-have-c
And since regulations were loosened we've had Black Monday in 1987 and the Subprime Mortgage Crisis of 2008, and a few more market crashes along the way. | | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 11:01 - Mar 8 with 471 views | kensalriser |
Regulators are fine when they’re given the tools and powers to do the job properly.
They’re not fine when they’re undermined and hobbled by governments and officials that have been compromised by the industries under regulation, ie hiring MPs as consultants etc. Then when people say regulation doesn’t work the practitioners of corruption can sit back in the satisfied knowledge that the mugs have been suckered again for just a little chump change. | |
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| Football Governance Bill on 13:54 - Mar 8 with 358 views | PlanetHonneywood |
No offence, but FFS!!
If you're going to cite wholesale deregulation of the financial industry standard rules, where disasters ensued, then yeah And you might as well throw in similar situations for the environmental degradation that's taken place, too.
However, that's not what we're talking about here is it?
We are talking about some person/body with 'oversight' and we are not talking about the equivalent of the football 'gold standard' here, either. We are, however, talking about the likes of: ofwat, ofgen, ofcom, the myriad of health regulatory bodies, and so forth.
Thus, and for the avoidance of doubt: are there any consistent examples of such persons/bodies doing regulatory work that the public is confident in, for which we could extrapolate some belief that a footy regulator would do likewise?
I had to deal with the CQC last couple of years. A complete joke, and tick box exercise at best. There's a water regulator, in the UK, and I doubt many believe the country's water system is good.
Hence, my suspicion as to the effectiveness of a football regulator. | |
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| Football Governance Bill on 15:12 - Mar 8 with 303 views | KensalT |
| Football Governance Bill on 13:54 - Mar 8 by PlanetHonneywood |
No offence, but FFS!!
If you're going to cite wholesale deregulation of the financial industry standard rules, where disasters ensued, then yeah And you might as well throw in similar situations for the environmental degradation that's taken place, too.
However, that's not what we're talking about here is it?
We are talking about some person/body with 'oversight' and we are not talking about the equivalent of the football 'gold standard' here, either. We are, however, talking about the likes of: ofwat, ofgen, ofcom, the myriad of health regulatory bodies, and so forth.
Thus, and for the avoidance of doubt: are there any consistent examples of such persons/bodies doing regulatory work that the public is confident in, for which we could extrapolate some belief that a footy regulator would do likewise?
I had to deal with the CQC last couple of years. A complete joke, and tick box exercise at best. There's a water regulator, in the UK, and I doubt many believe the country's water system is good.
Hence, my suspicion as to the effectiveness of a football regulator. |
Well you asked for an example :-)
OK, hands up, it was a teensy overreaction, but not bad going for a Saturday morning.
On the whole I agree with this from Kensalriser:
"Regulators are fine when they’re given the tools and powers to do the job properly.
They’re not fine when they’re undermined and hobbled by governments and officials that have been compromised by the industries under regulation, ie hiring MPs as consultants etc. Then when people say regulation doesn’t work the practitioners of corruption can sit back in the satisfied knowledge that the mugs have been suckered again for just a little chump change."
As I see it the real problem is that the game seems to be run for the benefit of an elite few plus a handful of clubs fortunate enough to share the Premier League with them and whose sole purpose isn't about winning things but ensuring that they stay at the top table with the big boys, because that's where all the money is.
Since the Premier League started in 1993 the two major trophies in English football have been the property of five clubs: Arsenal; Chelsea; Liverpool; Man City; Man Utd.
Only two other clubs have won the PL (Blackburn and Leicester), and only three other clubs have won the FA Cup (Leicester, Portsmouth, and Wigan)
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/13136017/premier-league-winners-fu
https://www.topendsports.com/events/soccer/fa-cup/winners.htm
In the meantime nine football clubs have gone bust since the Premier League started:
https://thefootballfreak.com/english-football-league-clubs-that-went-bust/
And lets not get started on the way big clubs hoover up young talent from the likes of us, whilst paying peanuts in compensation.
In America major sports are self-regulated. But in America they have deeply entrenched rules to ensure their sports remain competitive, and they require potential owners of clubs to stump up a huge sum of money in advance.
OK, American sports are structured differently from ours and what works there wouldn't necessarily work here. But at least their sports are genuinely competitive. They don't have dodgy owners and clubs don't go out of business.
The reason I think there is interest in an independent football regulator is because so many of the traditional fans of the game in this country have lost faith in the game's regulators to properly govern the game and want someone independent to do it. | | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 16:43 - Mar 8 with 262 views | Match82 |
| Football Governance Bill on 15:12 - Mar 8 by KensalT |
Well you asked for an example :-)
OK, hands up, it was a teensy overreaction, but not bad going for a Saturday morning.
On the whole I agree with this from Kensalriser:
"Regulators are fine when they’re given the tools and powers to do the job properly.
They’re not fine when they’re undermined and hobbled by governments and officials that have been compromised by the industries under regulation, ie hiring MPs as consultants etc. Then when people say regulation doesn’t work the practitioners of corruption can sit back in the satisfied knowledge that the mugs have been suckered again for just a little chump change."
As I see it the real problem is that the game seems to be run for the benefit of an elite few plus a handful of clubs fortunate enough to share the Premier League with them and whose sole purpose isn't about winning things but ensuring that they stay at the top table with the big boys, because that's where all the money is.
Since the Premier League started in 1993 the two major trophies in English football have been the property of five clubs: Arsenal; Chelsea; Liverpool; Man City; Man Utd.
Only two other clubs have won the PL (Blackburn and Leicester), and only three other clubs have won the FA Cup (Leicester, Portsmouth, and Wigan)
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/13136017/premier-league-winners-fu
https://www.topendsports.com/events/soccer/fa-cup/winners.htm
In the meantime nine football clubs have gone bust since the Premier League started:
https://thefootballfreak.com/english-football-league-clubs-that-went-bust/
And lets not get started on the way big clubs hoover up young talent from the likes of us, whilst paying peanuts in compensation.
In America major sports are self-regulated. But in America they have deeply entrenched rules to ensure their sports remain competitive, and they require potential owners of clubs to stump up a huge sum of money in advance.
OK, American sports are structured differently from ours and what works there wouldn't necessarily work here. But at least their sports are genuinely competitive. They don't have dodgy owners and clubs don't go out of business.
The reason I think there is interest in an independent football regulator is because so many of the traditional fans of the game in this country have lost faith in the game's regulators to properly govern the game and want someone independent to do it. |
The reason American sports are competitive is because it has a draft system. The worst team doesn't get relegated, they get to pick the best "young" player the next year. Great equaliser, but only works because it's a closed league with a) no relegation/promotion and b) self contained (no NFL player wants to go and play outside the US)
Pros and cons, and I personally move the US system, but wouldn't work in the UK |  | | |
| Football Governance Bill on 17:20 - Mar 8 with 235 views | KensalT |
| Football Governance Bill on 16:43 - Mar 8 by Match82 |
The reason American sports are competitive is because it has a draft system. The worst team doesn't get relegated, they get to pick the best "young" player the next year. Great equaliser, but only works because it's a closed league with a) no relegation/promotion and b) self contained (no NFL player wants to go and play outside the US)
Pros and cons, and I personally move the US system, but wouldn't work in the UK |
My point about American sports is that they try to keep their sports competitive. So yes they have the draft system. They also have salary caps, or a "luxury tax" in the case of baseball:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_luxury_tax
The aim is to keep the playing field as level as possible.
Over here we have FFP and P&S which really only serve to ringfence the power of the big clubs and make it harder for a new challenger to disrupt their elite group. | | | |
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