| Trust statement on 21:39 - Feb 22 with 6620 views | RAFCBLUE |
Great statement.
Those not in the inner circle will understandably want names but as the Trust statement says, they're not to be shared and given the sensitivity you can understand why. |  |
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| Trust statement on 22:10 - Feb 22 with 6476 views | Sandyman |
Feel a lot more assured reading this statement that we might be on to something good. |  | | |
| Trust statement on 22:14 - Feb 22 with 6450 views | D_Alien |
Progress, then
In an earlier post, there was mention of "talking"
That's all it takes; rather late in the day, but to be welcomed nevertheless [Post edited 22 Feb 22:14]
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| Trust statement on 22:16 - Feb 22 with 6418 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust statement on 22:10 - Feb 22 by Sandyman |
Feel a lot more assured reading this statement that we might be on to something good. |
We all have to wait and see however the one thing that reassures me is that everyone with shares is in the same boat by passing these motions.
9,000,000 A shares will give some party a real crack at taking Rochdale AFC fowards.
It's limped along throughout it's history and times have changed however the principled nature of many custodians of the club since Fred Ratcliffe means it has just about got by.
And if that happens it will be good for the club, good for the community and good for the town.
But its not guaranteed and remember investors (good ones and bad ones) read this board and it will form their view.
The EGM is a last chance saloon of sorts. We've all got to make the club attractive to those who can put Rochdale on the map for all the right reasons. | |
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| Trust statement on 22:27 - Feb 22 with 6336 views | 442Dale |
| Trust statement on 22:14 - Feb 22 by D_Alien |
Progress, then
In an earlier post, there was mention of "talking"
That's all it takes; rather late in the day, but to be welcomed nevertheless [Post edited 22 Feb 22:14]
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As we’ve always said, despite missing opportunity after opportunity, there’s always a chance to do something. Even when it might appear to be a stage that’s too late.
Let’s make the most of this opportunity to try and find the best route forward for the club. |  |
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| Trust statement on 22:32 - Feb 22 with 6285 views | DaleiLama |
Thanks for the update Judd. I was erring in the side of it being better to roll the 🎲 on this vote anyway but it seems we might be more likely to get a six now. A good development - if it comes off. [Post edited 22 Feb 23:21]
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| Trust statement on 22:51 - Feb 22 with 6173 views | judd |
| Trust statement on 22:32 - Feb 22 by DaleiLama |
Thanks for the update Judd. I was erring in the side of it being better to roll the 🎲 on this vote anyway but it seems we might be more likely to get a six now. A good development - if it comes off. [Post edited 22 Feb 23:21]
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There's still time for things to progress or not.
I hope this thread, if there are additions, will focus on the way forward and not searching for blame. That thread is over there..... |  |
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| Trust statement on 00:20 - Feb 23 with 5987 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
| Trust statement on 22:51 - Feb 22 by judd |
There's still time for things to progress or not.
I hope this thread, if there are additions, will focus on the way forward and not searching for blame. That thread is over there..... |
Many thanks for the update Judd.
Last Saturday, with our largest stand closed, a sparse crowd, a bog of a pitch made how far we had fallen, seam so real.
Something needed to happen.
I trust The Trust and if they are happy, so am I.
Fingers crossed. |  |
| Everything thats been, has past. The answers in the looking glass! |
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| Trust statement on 01:09 - Feb 23 with 5923 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust statement on 22:51 - Feb 22 by judd |
There's still time for things to progress or not.
I hope this thread, if there are additions, will focus on the way forward and not searching for blame. That thread is over there..... |
The fact that this statement has come from the Trust is what ignites the flame of hope. It gives me a lot more confidence that Simon Gauge is communicating with credible individuals. Communication has always been key and the fact there's been a distinct lack of it, more a 'us and them' over the last couple of years has resulted in discord. I hope there are brighter days ahead and I hope Simon Gauge gets some of his money back in whatever guise that may be. With communication now having taken place with the Trust regarding potential investors, shareholders are not going into the EGM blind and can make a more calculated decision. Hopefully we will soon have a new trustworthy regime to rally around and we can all pull together as one to get the club back into the EFL. Time to look forward now and as suggested, stop the blame game. [Post edited 23 Feb 4:14]
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| Trust statement on 08:10 - Feb 23 with 5633 views | Marjorie_Plane |
What a breath of fresh air. Thank you so much for the Trusts involvement in this communication. It is all we ask for. |  | | |
| Trust statement on 08:10 - Feb 23 with 5633 views | scooby |
This in itself is the issues. This a reaction to cover his arse, and only time will tell how realistic and true this is. Part of me wonders if this just noise to get the egm through.
Why couldn’t this had been part of the egm announcement? Now, if they’d have said:
We need an egm because the way the club is set up, investors are not interested but this change will allow talks to advance rapidly as they have stalled. In addition, as I’m £500k in to this, this approach will also provide me protection by x y z.
Surely there wouldn’t have been the panic? Many people would have instantly understood and it wouldn’t feel underhanded.
Time will tell, over to the shareholders to decide. As someone has already said, we’re near the top of the rollercoaster climb, enjoy the ride people… |  | | |
| Trust statement on 09:10 - Feb 23 with 5462 views | KnavesmireBob |
Excellent communication and transparency again - when you can't say much, saying just enough and in the right way can have such a powerful impact. There's diligence and diplomacy in everything the Trust is doing of late.
I don't think Simon is a wrong 'un but I do think he comes across aloof, and it's maybe this that creates the sense of being dismissive to us and vacuums to form for our minds to fill with worst possible scenarios.
It doesn't have to be this way, and I hope the quality of communication on display from the Trust leadership starts to rub off soon. Positive glimmers, looking forward to seeing what's next. | | | |
| Trust statement on 10:00 - Feb 23 with 5282 views | SuddenLad |
| Trust statement on 09:10 - Feb 23 by KnavesmireBob |
Excellent communication and transparency again - when you can't say much, saying just enough and in the right way can have such a powerful impact. There's diligence and diplomacy in everything the Trust is doing of late.
I don't think Simon is a wrong 'un but I do think he comes across aloof, and it's maybe this that creates the sense of being dismissive to us and vacuums to form for our minds to fill with worst possible scenarios.
It doesn't have to be this way, and I hope the quality of communication on display from the Trust leadership starts to rub off soon. Positive glimmers, looking forward to seeing what's next. |
Simon isn't a wrong'un, and that must be communicated far and wide.
His 'closed shop' mentality has been difficult for fans to deal with but it's just how he is. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Trust statement on 10:39 - Feb 23 with 5131 views | DorkingDale |
| Trust statement on 08:10 - Feb 23 by scooby |
This in itself is the issues. This a reaction to cover his arse, and only time will tell how realistic and true this is. Part of me wonders if this just noise to get the egm through.
Why couldn’t this had been part of the egm announcement? Now, if they’d have said:
We need an egm because the way the club is set up, investors are not interested but this change will allow talks to advance rapidly as they have stalled. In addition, as I’m £500k in to this, this approach will also provide me protection by x y z.
Surely there wouldn’t have been the panic? Many people would have instantly understood and it wouldn’t feel underhanded.
Time will tell, over to the shareholders to decide. As someone has already said, we’re near the top of the rollercoaster climb, enjoy the ride people… |
That's what he did say - suggest you read his statement again. | | | |
| Trust statement on 10:45 - Feb 23 with 5080 views | DaleiLama |
| Trust statement on 10:00 - Feb 23 by SuddenLad |
Simon isn't a wrong'un, and that must be communicated far and wide.
His 'closed shop' mentality has been difficult for fans to deal with but it's just how he is. |
Very much my impression too.
Not condoning his leadership style, communication or running of the club in anyway, but when dog mess comes through your letterbox, personal threats are issued and a bunker mentality develops, it shouldn't come as a surprise, surely? Especially when you shell out £0.5M for the privilege. | |
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| Trust statement on 00:53 - Feb 24 with 4563 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust statement on 08:10 - Feb 23 by scooby |
This in itself is the issues. This a reaction to cover his arse, and only time will tell how realistic and true this is. Part of me wonders if this just noise to get the egm through.
Why couldn’t this had been part of the egm announcement? Now, if they’d have said:
We need an egm because the way the club is set up, investors are not interested but this change will allow talks to advance rapidly as they have stalled. In addition, as I’m £500k in to this, this approach will also provide me protection by x y z.
Surely there wouldn’t have been the panic? Many people would have instantly understood and it wouldn’t feel underhanded.
Time will tell, over to the shareholders to decide. As someone has already said, we’re near the top of the rollercoaster climb, enjoy the ride people… |
If the Trust now know the details of the potential investor and have done tentative behind the scenes checks then why can't they introduce themselves to each other and speak prior to the EGM vote? That could easily be done via a video link if needed. The Trust were promised that they would be included in discussions with investors.
Now the Chairman has spoken with the Trust, the obvious thing to do would be to speak before we are all asked to participate in the most important vote in the clubs history. I would imagine nearly the whole fan base are indirectly shareholders, having contributed financially to purchasing the Trust shares down the years and very soon those shares could be diluted and meaningless. We are taking the Chairman at his word, i think the Trust need to speak to the investor personally to ascertain just how far down the line these negotiations are, i would imagine that's what the fans would want them to do and there is now no real reason why they couldn't. It's the exact type of scenario that Trusts are in place for in the first place, hopefully the Chairman can facilitate this now.
I'll admit that I'm very cautious about this EGM, I'm hoping that we're not all walking into a ambush and once the vote is passed this 'clean skin' investor will magically withdraw to be replaced by a bunch of charlatans. There will be no turning back after this vote in regards to the stadium. Maybe it's just my paranoia but after everything that's happened to the club over the last few years I can't help being very suspicious and second guessing everything. Having said that I appreciate Gauge did say that there are no guarantees with any investors at the moment. I thank the Trust for all the hard work they are putting into this. It's a terrible situation that we all find ourselves in, even more so for the loyal staff at the club, the girls in the office etc. [Post edited 24 Feb 1:58]
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| Trust statement on 08:28 - Feb 24 with 4339 views | EllGazzell |
| Trust statement on 00:53 - Feb 24 by TalkingSutty |
If the Trust now know the details of the potential investor and have done tentative behind the scenes checks then why can't they introduce themselves to each other and speak prior to the EGM vote? That could easily be done via a video link if needed. The Trust were promised that they would be included in discussions with investors.
Now the Chairman has spoken with the Trust, the obvious thing to do would be to speak before we are all asked to participate in the most important vote in the clubs history. I would imagine nearly the whole fan base are indirectly shareholders, having contributed financially to purchasing the Trust shares down the years and very soon those shares could be diluted and meaningless. We are taking the Chairman at his word, i think the Trust need to speak to the investor personally to ascertain just how far down the line these negotiations are, i would imagine that's what the fans would want them to do and there is now no real reason why they couldn't. It's the exact type of scenario that Trusts are in place for in the first place, hopefully the Chairman can facilitate this now.
I'll admit that I'm very cautious about this EGM, I'm hoping that we're not all walking into a ambush and once the vote is passed this 'clean skin' investor will magically withdraw to be replaced by a bunch of charlatans. There will be no turning back after this vote in regards to the stadium. Maybe it's just my paranoia but after everything that's happened to the club over the last few years I can't help being very suspicious and second guessing everything. Having said that I appreciate Gauge did say that there are no guarantees with any investors at the moment. I thank the Trust for all the hard work they are putting into this. It's a terrible situation that we all find ourselves in, even more so for the loyal staff at the club, the girls in the office etc. [Post edited 24 Feb 1:58]
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If the Trust now know the details of the potential investor and have done tentative behind the scenes checks then why can't they introduce themselves to each other and speak prior to the EGM vote? That could easily be done via a video link if needed. The Trust were promised that they would be included in discussions with investors.
Would you be happy for that to happen and the Trust not comment their opinion?
Maybe the members of the Trust board don't fancy having dog shit put through their letterboxes or pilloried for 'endorsing' the potential new owners if things turn sour. After reading some of the comments made by numpties on the Facebook 'appreciation' page, I don't blame them.
This is not aimed at you TS, but it seems to me there are people around who want to have a guaranteed Fred Ratcliffe type take over - singing coom by yah whilst endowed with Dale tattoos. Very low probability.
We are on the brink of death, one which has been coming for longer than the current board and the monopoly man's work, as such, as was with the Covid vaccines, we are gonna have to weigh up the risk v reward and take the medicine as the alternative is (for us) guaranteed death.
We're not in a position to be so risk averse, unfortunately, and when 'cutting your cloth' becomes harakiri, something has to give.
Despite his general ineptitude in running the football club, based on the Trust statement, I endorse the Chairman's proposal. [Post edited 24 Feb 8:30]
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| Trust statement on 08:48 - Feb 24 with 4283 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust statement on 08:28 - Feb 24 by EllGazzell |
If the Trust now know the details of the potential investor and have done tentative behind the scenes checks then why can't they introduce themselves to each other and speak prior to the EGM vote? That could easily be done via a video link if needed. The Trust were promised that they would be included in discussions with investors.
Would you be happy for that to happen and the Trust not comment their opinion?
Maybe the members of the Trust board don't fancy having dog shit put through their letterboxes or pilloried for 'endorsing' the potential new owners if things turn sour. After reading some of the comments made by numpties on the Facebook 'appreciation' page, I don't blame them.
This is not aimed at you TS, but it seems to me there are people around who want to have a guaranteed Fred Ratcliffe type take over - singing coom by yah whilst endowed with Dale tattoos. Very low probability.
We are on the brink of death, one which has been coming for longer than the current board and the monopoly man's work, as such, as was with the Covid vaccines, we are gonna have to weigh up the risk v reward and take the medicine as the alternative is (for us) guaranteed death.
We're not in a position to be so risk averse, unfortunately, and when 'cutting your cloth' becomes harakiri, something has to give.
Despite his general ineptitude in running the football club, based on the Trust statement, I endorse the Chairman's proposal. [Post edited 24 Feb 8:30]
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The Chairman himself commented that there are now other investors interested. Are all of them demanding that they can only proceed if they have complete control of the club and the stadium? Once the vote has been passed in favour of what the Chairman is suggesting the club and stadium is out of our hands and at the mercy of others to do what they want with. No point having a Trust anymore, there's nothing they can influence once persons unknown have the key to the house. It's been suggested that the Stadium etc is valued between £4-£6 million, if that's the case why don't we row our own boat and take our medicine in whatever guise that might be and negotiate the sale of the ground ourselves if need be. Then pay off any debts/ money owed and start again with a few milion quid in the bank? Why are we selling the club for £2 million when it's worth far more than that? [Post edited 24 Feb 9:34]
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| Trust statement on 09:35 - Feb 24 with 4178 views | fitzochris |
A lot is going on right now, with the chairman embarking on something of a media tour to put the listening football world in the frame as he sees it.
My understanding, given the various sources and statements flying around, is as follows:
On Tuesday night, the chairman delivered a sobering statement, warning that unless the club secures an investor by the end of March, liquidation looms as a very real threat.
He pointed to our share model, established a couple of years ago with his support, as being a deterrent to current potential investors. Initially championed as a fan-owned model, where supporters were encouraged to buy shares in various amounts, it now appears that this fragmented approach is deterring investors who prefer direct acquisition from the club.
The proposed solution involves issuing millions of new shares for direct purchase from the club, albeit at the expense of diluting the shares held by thousands (when considering the Trust) of fans who invested in the fan-owned model. An EGM has been convened, where fan shareholders must vote on this proposal under the chairman's ominous warning of liquidation if not approved.
Supporters are grappling with the stark contrast between past assurances and the current crisis. Just the season before last, for example, after the current board took over, we were assured of a stable financial footing and healthy cash reserves, enabling a significant increase in the playing budget.
Yet, barely two years later, we find ourselves on the brink.
The inconsistency naturally raises questions and I applaud the Trust for hosting a meeting to at least attempt to address these.
The Trust, having conducted due diligence on a potential investor that seems to have returned positive results, is cautiously optimistic but caveats its assessment with concerns about complacency that anything is certain.
So, as uncertainty grips the club, clarity and accountability from the leadership become paramount for the sake of our beloved institution and us devoted fans.
I agree it is probably the most important decision shareholders have had to make in the history of this club - and there may well be no viable alternative at this stage.
I just hope that whatever is decided upon results in what is best for our football club. I feel all we can do now is hope. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:36]
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| Trust statement on 10:46 - Feb 24 with 4004 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust statement on 08:48 - Feb 24 by TalkingSutty |
The Chairman himself commented that there are now other investors interested. Are all of them demanding that they can only proceed if they have complete control of the club and the stadium? Once the vote has been passed in favour of what the Chairman is suggesting the club and stadium is out of our hands and at the mercy of others to do what they want with. No point having a Trust anymore, there's nothing they can influence once persons unknown have the key to the house. It's been suggested that the Stadium etc is valued between £4-£6 million, if that's the case why don't we row our own boat and take our medicine in whatever guise that might be and negotiate the sale of the ground ourselves if need be. Then pay off any debts/ money owed and start again with a few milion quid in the bank? Why are we selling the club for £2 million when it's worth far more than that? [Post edited 24 Feb 9:34]
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Who is the “we” who you envisage negotiating the sale of the ground ourselves?
If these motions are not passed on 7th March the only person doing the negotiating will be the Liquidator.
Even the Board can’t sell the ground as is now given the Morris resolution they need 75% of shareholders to approve doing so and which is why it will be Liquidation not Administration.
The other elephant in the room is that we might also be about to end Rochdale Hornets.
Liquidation will mean they are made homeless too and the way the IMG rankings work the ground and facility is the biggest selling point. IMO it would be the end of them too. Andy Mazey and his team would need to find another home. I’ve not seen that mentioned at all so far.
It’s too late for the council to step in and buy the ground for £4m-£6m as they’d have to go through their process and we’d need an EGM to do a sale and leaseback transaction too and 75% to vote for that. No chance of that happening by the end of March. | |
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| Trust statement on 11:10 - Feb 24 with 3940 views | 442Dale |
The amount of elephants in the room indicate the requirement for a bigger circus tent. | |
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| Trust statement on 11:16 - Feb 24 with 3920 views | Rehsad |
| Trust statement on 10:46 - Feb 24 by RAFCBLUE |
Who is the “we” who you envisage negotiating the sale of the ground ourselves?
If these motions are not passed on 7th March the only person doing the negotiating will be the Liquidator.
Even the Board can’t sell the ground as is now given the Morris resolution they need 75% of shareholders to approve doing so and which is why it will be Liquidation not Administration.
The other elephant in the room is that we might also be about to end Rochdale Hornets.
Liquidation will mean they are made homeless too and the way the IMG rankings work the ground and facility is the biggest selling point. IMO it would be the end of them too. Andy Mazey and his team would need to find another home. I’ve not seen that mentioned at all so far.
It’s too late for the council to step in and buy the ground for £4m-£6m as they’d have to go through their process and we’d need an EGM to do a sale and leaseback transaction too and 75% to vote for that. No chance of that happening by the end of March. |
To me, the difference between these two posts is the quality of the information regarding the end of March. I fully agree that if there is no money left at the end of March then it is Liquidation. However, how do we weight this information? We only have one person's word. Is there a way of extending the lifeline such that the ground split alternative model can be worked up and in some ways funded. If we vote 'Yes' at the EGM then this is dead. Can we vote 'yes' without numbers though? I'm not so sure that I can. | | | |
| Trust statement on 11:22 - Feb 24 with 3887 views | James1980 |
A contingency plan is required. | |
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| Trust statement on 11:23 - Feb 24 with 3883 views | 442Dale |
| Trust statement on 11:16 - Feb 24 by Rehsad |
To me, the difference between these two posts is the quality of the information regarding the end of March. I fully agree that if there is no money left at the end of March then it is Liquidation. However, how do we weight this information? We only have one person's word. Is there a way of extending the lifeline such that the ground split alternative model can be worked up and in some ways funded. If we vote 'Yes' at the EGM then this is dead. Can we vote 'yes' without numbers though? I'm not so sure that I can. |
Interesting question about the ground. To add:
How much is required each month to keep the club operating?
What is the deficit after income received and can this be covered on a temporary basis?
What happens if the proposal goes through and it takes a month-3 months- 6 months to get a deal in place with an investor?
As has been mentioned already in this thread, it’s about finding positive routes forward. It would be ridiculous to not explore as many as possible with a focus on encouraging such questions and trying to determine answers that may help. Dismissing anything would be a massive mistake. That’s why supporters felt a meeting was a good idea, that’s why the Trust have stepped up to organise one. [Post edited 24 Feb 11:29]
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| Trust statement on 11:40 - Feb 24 with 3820 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust statement on 10:46 - Feb 24 by RAFCBLUE |
Who is the “we” who you envisage negotiating the sale of the ground ourselves?
If these motions are not passed on 7th March the only person doing the negotiating will be the Liquidator.
Even the Board can’t sell the ground as is now given the Morris resolution they need 75% of shareholders to approve doing so and which is why it will be Liquidation not Administration.
The other elephant in the room is that we might also be about to end Rochdale Hornets.
Liquidation will mean they are made homeless too and the way the IMG rankings work the ground and facility is the biggest selling point. IMO it would be the end of them too. Andy Mazey and his team would need to find another home. I’ve not seen that mentioned at all so far.
It’s too late for the council to step in and buy the ground for £4m-£6m as they’d have to go through their process and we’d need an EGM to do a sale and leaseback transaction too and 75% to vote for that. No chance of that happening by the end of March. |
'We'...the Trust, Shareholders, fans, people who love the club maybe liase with local businessmen, RMBC, Hornets and try to raise capital to keep the club going beyond the end of March..four weeks later the season ends. We sell season tickets early and raise money. We receive 50% of the parachute payment from the EFL, sell players etc. We change the Morris arrangement ourselves as a fan run club and we make our own decisions regarding what we do with it. If we have to accept dropping down the pyramid then we do but we don't give our stadium and club away to persons unknown. If the ground is valued at £4- £6 million then why are we giving it away for £2 million. The way you speak about the club in such a dismissive manner shows you in a poor light, you disrespect the fans and are patronising. Your attack on Chris Dunphy on this forum showed your true colours, you're Simon Gauges bag carrier and you know it. [Post edited 24 Feb 11:43]
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