| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. 18:02 - Apr 18 with 5038 views | Flashberryjack |
Paul Drakeford the Labour leader of the Senedd plan to give young asylum-seekers in Wales £1,600 a MONTH and taxpayers' cash to fight deportation. Labour ministers in Wales have announced plans that could see young asylum seekers in the country receive £1,600 a month and taxpayers' cash for legal aid to fight deportation.
Absolutely Bonkers. |  |
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 23:18 - Apr 18 with 1205 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 21:32 - Apr 18 by majorraglan |
It’s Mark Drakeford not Paul.
The headline in the newspapers is a bit misleading, the programme the WG were initially looking to trial is the Universal Basic Income and it was intended to pay kids leaving care etc a basic income which would enable them to start standing on their on 2 feet, help them get their life in order and have prospects moving forward.
Children from this group (those who’ve been in care etc) are much more likely to have been exposed to ACE’s (Adverse Childhood Experiences) and are statistically much more likely to end up being offenders, victims of crime, involved in substance abuse, alcohol abuse etc and be long term problems for society and much more of a financial drain moving forward. The U.K. government have recognised that children leaving care or the protection of Social Services face major problems and that was one one the reasons they extended the obligation Local Authorities have towards young people leaving care from 18 to 21.
A local authority has a duty to monitor the arrangement and to provide advice, assistance and support to the 'former relevant child', with the view to maintaining the 'staying put' arrangement until the care leaver reaches the age of 21. This includes financial support. I suspect what’s being proposed by the WG isn’t a million miles off the obligations LA’s have already.
In terms of Asylum Seekers, I suspect the WG have considered these individuals to be vulnerable and deserving of similar protections as children in care. What’s then happened is that certain elements of the right wing press have publicised aspects of what’s happening, in particular the bits that would appeal to a certain audience. Isn’t it a bit strange that not long after the WG write to the Government in relation to this it appears in the right wing press!
I’ve had some experience of dealing with children who’ve been in care, many come from very troubled family backgrounds and have been “dragged up”, subject to abuse, drugs alcohol etc etc.
The system is failing and has failed many of these kids and for many it becomes a revolving door between police station, Court and prison.
I can’t say I’m in favour of the WG proposals because I’m not, but it’s not as straight forward and clear cut as some are making out and what we currently have isn’t working. |
An excellent post.
The divs on here should read and re-read this until it sinks in.
Might take some time with a few mind. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 23:24 - Apr 18 with 1197 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 22:08 - Apr 18 by Dr_Winston |
If Drakeford is involved then it's obviously an attempt at political point scoring. Witness the halfwits continual "We do things differently in Wales" mutterings at every point during Covid when the Westminster Govt's moves to release restrictions were proven right at every turn. |
Proven right ?
Overall, the number of people who have died from Covid-19 to end-July 2022 is 180,000, about 1 in 8 of all deaths in England and Wales during the pandemic.
Proven fecking very wrong. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 23:26 - Apr 18 with 1191 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 20:52 - Apr 18 by Flashberryjack |
The sad thing is, the people of Wales will still vote for these clowns. |
Very few vote Tory in Wales. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 23:28 - Apr 18 with 1190 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 22:20 - Apr 18 by JACKMANANDBOY |
People are blinded by some form of insanity. For example; Scotland's public services are in a right state. Get out the bag pipes, put up some roadsigns, say we hate the English, say freedom a lot, say Scotland the brave and what a proud nation we are and people vote in their droves, despite the evidence that they are paying more for less. Scotland has screwed itself. We have a huge issue in the UK with the quality of our elected representatives in every party and every Parliament. Here in Wales we are slipping down the same slope as Scotland. |
Sounds just like Brexit flag shagging to me that ….🇬🇧 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 07:46 - Apr 19 with 1111 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 23:26 - Apr 18 by Kilkennyjack |
Very few vote Tory in Wales. |
26% did in the last Senedd which is 5% more than vote for PC .
In the last General election 36% did only 4% less than Labour. PC got a miserable 9%.
Once again you got it very very wrong. |  |
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 08:04 - Apr 19 with 1099 views | Boundy |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 22:04 - Apr 18 by Gwyn737 |
The timing does seem a little odd and it’s been presented in a pretty combative way.
As i posted earlier I’d like to know if it actually would cost more than the current system.
If it doesn’t then it could just be an attempt at political point scoring. |
Its always been about political point scoring , you only have to see how Drakeford handled the Covid crisis to see that .A dangerous game which ignores the needs of those he and his ilk are supposed to support .
Local shops decimated due to draconian measures
Refusal to have an independent enquiry into its handling of Covid here in Wales
Refusal to accept money from Westminster pay for the M4 upgrade
Spending tax payers money handing out trees ,
Building a memorial forest which is out of reach of the vast majority of Wales populace
I could go on but its too depressing | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 08:17 - Apr 19 with 1099 views | AnotherJohn |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 21:32 - Apr 18 by majorraglan |
It’s Mark Drakeford not Paul.
The headline in the newspapers is a bit misleading, the programme the WG were initially looking to trial is the Universal Basic Income and it was intended to pay kids leaving care etc a basic income which would enable them to start standing on their on 2 feet, help them get their life in order and have prospects moving forward.
Children from this group (those who’ve been in care etc) are much more likely to have been exposed to ACE’s (Adverse Childhood Experiences) and are statistically much more likely to end up being offenders, victims of crime, involved in substance abuse, alcohol abuse etc and be long term problems for society and much more of a financial drain moving forward. The U.K. government have recognised that children leaving care or the protection of Social Services face major problems and that was one one the reasons they extended the obligation Local Authorities have towards young people leaving care from 18 to 21.
A local authority has a duty to monitor the arrangement and to provide advice, assistance and support to the 'former relevant child', with the view to maintaining the 'staying put' arrangement until the care leaver reaches the age of 21. This includes financial support. I suspect what’s being proposed by the WG isn’t a million miles off the obligations LA’s have already.
In terms of Asylum Seekers, I suspect the WG have considered these individuals to be vulnerable and deserving of similar protections as children in care. What’s then happened is that certain elements of the right wing press have publicised aspects of what’s happening, in particular the bits that would appeal to a certain audience. Isn’t it a bit strange that not long after the WG write to the Government in relation to this it appears in the right wing press!
I’ve had some experience of dealing with children who’ve been in care, many come from very troubled family backgrounds and have been “dragged up”, subject to abuse, drugs alcohol etc etc.
The system is failing and has failed many of these kids and for many it becomes a revolving door between police station, Court and prison.
I can’t say I’m in favour of the WG proposals because I’m not, but it’s not as straight forward and clear cut as some are making out and what we currently have isn’t working. |
It could be argued that what the WG has done is opt to treat young asylum seekers leaving care in the same way as other young people leaving care by including them in the universal basic income trial. But isn't it the case that Lord Bellamy (the UK Justice Minister) has responded by saying that if this goes ahead then young asylum seekers must be subject to the same rules as those other care leavers and undergo a means test before they get legal aid "for proceedings which are in scope of legal aid, such as immigration, housing or criminal cases". In other words both points of view are based on the same principle of consistent treatment for all. Bellamy's letter implies that the government believes a LA can discharge its duty to provide financial assistance via the existing UK-wide universal credit scheme. [Post edited 19 Apr 2023 8:47]
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 17:18 - Apr 19 with 1025 views | max936 |
Dear me that's ridiculous, its got to be stopped 1.6k a month,  |  |
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 17:21 - Apr 19 with 1023 views | max936 |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 20:04 - Apr 18 by Gwyn737 |
I suppose it depends how that figure compares to current costs.
If the cost of housing someone in a hotel and whatever living benefits received per month already comes to about £1600 a month it’s a non-story.
The lawyers are paid by taxpayer money whichever route it gets to them. |
That hostel bill still has to be paid, where they gonna stay whilst they using that 1.6k? a Month to fight their case, the 1.6k is on top of what the cost is to house them. | |
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 18:17 - Apr 19 with 1015 views | Gwyn737 |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 17:21 - Apr 19 by max936 |
That hostel bill still has to be paid, where they gonna stay whilst they using that 1.6k? a Month to fight their case, the 1.6k is on top of what the cost is to house them. |
Thanks Max. I didn’t get that from the story I read 👠| | | |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 21:03 - Apr 19 with 974 views | majorraglan |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 17:21 - Apr 19 by max936 |
That hostel bill still has to be paid, where they gonna stay whilst they using that 1.6k? a Month to fight their case, the 1.6k is on top of what the cost is to house them. |
I’m not in favour of the scheme, but £1.6k per month could represent a significant saving on what’s being paid out now. Putting a child in a care home is expensive, really, really expensive - you’re talking £3.8k per week and if there are complications it can sky rocket.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/apr/18/english-councils-pay-1m-per-chil | | | |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 07:46 - Apr 20 with 934 views | AnotherJohn |
That is an important point, and I suspect most people would be shocked if we were able to quantify the total long-term cost of receiving unaccompanied minors. As I understand things, the UBI trial provides support when a migrant reaches 18 and leaves care, and so is not an alternative to a care placement while a child. As Majorraglan says in his earlier post, many young people leaving care have major problems of adjustment so that later anti-social behaviour is not unusual. What concerns me is that there are several precedents where young migrants who enter the UK with high expectations have reacted very negatively when they fail to achieve their aspirations. The phenomenon of the embittered and radicalised lone attacker has cost many lives, as well as resulting in very high security costs. Even if a young migrant adjusts reasonably well there may be an understandable wish to help other family members still overseas, and we then see the effect of “anchor children” and the cost of further legal bills for additional immigration cases. So if any of this applies the cost of assisting one unaccompanied minor is much greater than one imagines. For example, one might speculate that it must be well in excess of the cost of supporting 10 OAPs. How do we afford it? Well some money from central and local government budgets, but a worrying amount from overseas development aid. It seems that in 2022 we diverted about a third of our ODA to domestic migrant expenditure.
https://www.context.news/socioeconomic-inclusion/britains-foreign-aid-where-does
This isn’t just the fault of the evil UK Government, as ODA spent abroad is being dramatically cut by many European countries.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/development-policy/news/member-states-deepen-de
The cost of helping one at-risk person near their country of origin is much less than the cost of supporting one cross channel migrant. Each young man who jumps the queue takes money away from a large number of more deserving cases who did not have the money to bribe people smugglers to get to Western Europe. Is it really a “progressive” policy to encourage this? [Post edited 20 Apr 2023 7:54]
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 10:49 - Apr 20 with 884 views | Boundy |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 07:46 - Apr 20 by AnotherJohn |
That is an important point, and I suspect most people would be shocked if we were able to quantify the total long-term cost of receiving unaccompanied minors. As I understand things, the UBI trial provides support when a migrant reaches 18 and leaves care, and so is not an alternative to a care placement while a child. As Majorraglan says in his earlier post, many young people leaving care have major problems of adjustment so that later anti-social behaviour is not unusual. What concerns me is that there are several precedents where young migrants who enter the UK with high expectations have reacted very negatively when they fail to achieve their aspirations. The phenomenon of the embittered and radicalised lone attacker has cost many lives, as well as resulting in very high security costs. Even if a young migrant adjusts reasonably well there may be an understandable wish to help other family members still overseas, and we then see the effect of “anchor children” and the cost of further legal bills for additional immigration cases. So if any of this applies the cost of assisting one unaccompanied minor is much greater than one imagines. For example, one might speculate that it must be well in excess of the cost of supporting 10 OAPs. How do we afford it? Well some money from central and local government budgets, but a worrying amount from overseas development aid. It seems that in 2022 we diverted about a third of our ODA to domestic migrant expenditure.
https://www.context.news/socioeconomic-inclusion/britains-foreign-aid-where-does
This isn’t just the fault of the evil UK Government, as ODA spent abroad is being dramatically cut by many European countries.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/development-policy/news/member-states-deepen-de
The cost of helping one at-risk person near their country of origin is much less than the cost of supporting one cross channel migrant. Each young man who jumps the queue takes money away from a large number of more deserving cases who did not have the money to bribe people smugglers to get to Western Europe. Is it really a “progressive” policy to encourage this? [Post edited 20 Apr 2023 7:54]
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How many are unaccompanied children without passports or other identification and the smell of money ,I could pass for 16 | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 12:10 - Apr 20 with 873 views | builthjack |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 10:49 - Apr 20 by Boundy |
How many are unaccompanied children without passports or other identification and the smell of money ,I could pass for 16 |
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| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 13:34 - Apr 20 with 849 views | Boundy |
| Welsh Labour and Drakeford. on 12:10 - Apr 20 by builthjack |
116 |
You'd be surprised  | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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