| NHS crisis 07:34 - Jan 7 with 5068 views | SullutaCreturned |
We've been saying it on here for ages, we've discussed all the things that the BBC has now put into one story and here it is, the stats, the numbers, the reasons why the NHS is failing for all to see,
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64190440 |  | | |  |
| NHS crisis on 07:00 - Jan 8 with 1032 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 19:43 - Jan 7 by majorraglan |
Can’t answer the question about purchasing equipment because the NHS have a procuring arm who should be buying at huge discounts - I know medicines are cheaper here than they are across the pond. Any examples of paying 10x over the odds?
In terms of employing agency nurses, the answer is quite simple. If there are gaps in staffing on account of sickness, staff leaving, etc etc which have to be covered, if a ward can’t get one of its own team to work an extra shift or a “bank” nurse ( nurse from elsewhere in the hospital picking up an extra shift) to cover they’ve got no alternative other than to go to an agency nurse as the cover has to be in place.
If there were enough nurses to go around there wouldn’t be a need for agency nurses, but it's a case of supply and demand and there aren’t enough nurses about. You’re right about staff abandoning the NHS for aside jobs because the pressure ward nurses, and A&E nurses are under is immense. |
it's well known the NHS pays ore for medicines that seems right. Some jerk (or jerks) signed a deal that sees the NHS pay well over the odds and I can't help but wonder what that persons reward was, or will be. You can buy paracetamol for what, 30p these days and even though that has nearly doubled in price this last year the NHS still pays over 10 times that for the same product.
We could talk about the massive waste that costs a fortune too. I was given equipment when I was waiting for my hip replacement, it must cost hundreds altogether but I had that operation in June 2021 which is 19 months ago and I have never managed to return the equipment nor get them to pick it up. Some of it is now rusting in the back garden. The crutches you can buy for 35 quid second hand, they are in the cupboard just in case! I bet the NHS paid a lot more for them though. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 07:15 - Jan 8 with 1021 views | CountyJim |
I had a phone call Friday from the cataract waiting list office I was asked how I was getting on with my eye
I said it wasn't nearly as bad as the one I had done a year ago so they said can we call you again in 9 months
I think that's a great idea as I can cope |  | | |
| NHS crisis on 07:28 - Jan 8 with 1006 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 07:15 - Jan 8 by CountyJim |
I had a phone call Friday from the cataract waiting list office I was asked how I was getting on with my eye
I said it wasn't nearly as bad as the one I had done a year ago so they said can we call you again in 9 months
I think that's a great idea as I can cope |
being proactive is a good idea yes. Thing is Jim, it isn't always that way.
When I was waiting for my hip replacement I phoned up after a year to discover I hadn't been put on the waiting list for 6 months, that was the first feck up which was September 2016. Then another year in I phoned again and was told I wasn't on the list at all, I had been removed and I never got an adequate explanantion for that. I contacted my Specialist and he sorted it out, allegedly returning me to the same point on the list before I was removed. The wait was, I had been told, 12 months from the date I was supposed to be on the list (though it obviously never was 12 months at that point) then of course we had Covid but even so I had waited a long time which in the end became June 2021. I waited 5 years and 3 months.
Today they are saying the waiting list starts at 5 years so my estimate would be that a lot of elderly people will die before getting their hips done because the wait is probably really around 7 -8 years! | | | |
| NHS crisis on 07:59 - Jan 8 with 984 views | CountyJim |
| NHS crisis on 07:28 - Jan 8 by SullutaCreturned |
being proactive is a good idea yes. Thing is Jim, it isn't always that way.
When I was waiting for my hip replacement I phoned up after a year to discover I hadn't been put on the waiting list for 6 months, that was the first feck up which was September 2016. Then another year in I phoned again and was told I wasn't on the list at all, I had been removed and I never got an adequate explanantion for that. I contacted my Specialist and he sorted it out, allegedly returning me to the same point on the list before I was removed. The wait was, I had been told, 12 months from the date I was supposed to be on the list (though it obviously never was 12 months at that point) then of course we had Covid but even so I had waited a long time which in the end became June 2021. I waited 5 years and 3 months.
Today they are saying the waiting list starts at 5 years so my estimate would be that a lot of elderly people will die before getting their hips done because the wait is probably really around 7 -8 years! |
That's unfair and not on mate I'd contact your AM doesn't matter about your party politics they will investigate for you I know that for a fact.
But I know you shouldn't have to go down that road
All the best | | | |
| NHS crisis on 09:00 - Jan 8 with 968 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| NHS crisis on 07:28 - Jan 8 by SullutaCreturned |
being proactive is a good idea yes. Thing is Jim, it isn't always that way.
When I was waiting for my hip replacement I phoned up after a year to discover I hadn't been put on the waiting list for 6 months, that was the first feck up which was September 2016. Then another year in I phoned again and was told I wasn't on the list at all, I had been removed and I never got an adequate explanantion for that. I contacted my Specialist and he sorted it out, allegedly returning me to the same point on the list before I was removed. The wait was, I had been told, 12 months from the date I was supposed to be on the list (though it obviously never was 12 months at that point) then of course we had Covid but even so I had waited a long time which in the end became June 2021. I waited 5 years and 3 months.
Today they are saying the waiting list starts at 5 years so my estimate would be that a lot of elderly people will die before getting their hips done because the wait is probably really around 7 -8 years! |
In my small network I know of two people who have gone private for hip replacements in the last three months because they were told it would be a 5 and 6 year wait. £15K seems to be today's price for mobility. |  |
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| NHS crisis on 09:16 - Jan 8 with 962 views | Dr_Winston |
When Mrs. Winson's mother went in for surgery on her broken leg they did her hip for her at the same time. Problem is it wasn't her "bad" hip. The one on the other side has been troubling her far more, but she's probably going to have to go private for that. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS crisis on 10:20 - Jan 8 with 938 views | STID2017 |
| NHS crisis on 09:16 - Jan 8 by Dr_Winston |
When Mrs. Winson's mother went in for surgery on her broken leg they did her hip for her at the same time. Problem is it wasn't her "bad" hip. The one on the other side has been troubling her far more, but she's probably going to have to go private for that. |
Crazy |  |
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| NHS crisis on 10:34 - Jan 8 with 935 views | Dr_Winston |
I get the logic of not doing both sides at once, because that would have left her even more immobile than she already was, but if a hip replacement is something they can just decide to do (for further info, she had no idea that they'd done it until they told her after) then it's not really something that should be a five or six year wait for. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS crisis on 10:36 - Jan 8 with 931 views | STID2017 |
| NHS crisis on 10:34 - Jan 8 by Dr_Winston |
I get the logic of not doing both sides at once, because that would have left her even more immobile than she already was, but if a hip replacement is something they can just decide to do (for further info, she had no idea that they'd done it until they told her after) then it's not really something that should be a five or six year wait for. |
Indeed but why not do her most affected one ? | |
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| NHS crisis on 11:56 - Jan 8 with 919 views | krunchykarrot |
| NHS crisis on 21:04 - Jan 7 by BryanSwan |
Wouldn't claim to know how procurement works on a medicinal front, but i would almost guarentee on IT equipment/anything not medicinal they would be paying a hefty mark up to some private firm. (Couldn't give and example as I'm not personally working for the NHS but have been told this which would make sense as it was the case when i worked in PS a few years back).
Surely there are enough nurses if there are some kicking about waiting for agency work? But surely the logical response to a chronic staff shortage would be to increase wages and assist putting as many people as possible through nursing training etc rather than constantly paying way over the odds for agency workers.
Speaking to a nurse not so long back they said it was pointless having the agency nurses, most were swapped in and out with someone else so often that there wasn't even time to get them up to speed before someone else was in there. |
Exactley, nurses are leaving to go agency working for more money whilst they still can as there is a shortage. There is a countrywide problem which ive never seen before where there are job vacancies galore during a inflatory period. Teachers have been doing the same for years. I torn over this issue, but there are negative consequences for patients and pupils as continuity and responsibility suffers.
Ive stated before offer free training 4K pay rise upto 35k say and just 4k above and see if we can entice nurses back as the pension bump will be hard to beat in the private sector.
As for IT this question was asked the other morning. "what organisation buys the most Fax machines a year" |  | | |
| NHS crisis on 13:02 - Jan 8 with 895 views | johnlangy |
| NHS crisis on 15:41 - Jan 7 by DJack |
As ever half the replying posts contains posters personal hobby-horses. The NHS crisis is very serious, the discussion does not need your prejudices.
So what we do know...
A dearth of necessary funding for a number of years.
An increasing population.
An increasing ageing population.
Population lifestyle pressures.
Better but more expensive drugs and machines to help extend the life of patients.
Any more to be added?... and please put aside the usual dogma that can come with this discussion. |
It's been said many times recently that the NHS should be taken out of politics and the different parties ideology altogether. A very difficult thing to do but brilliant if it could be done.
It would need ALL members of the HOC to agree. It would require a set of principles fixed by law which every government would have to follow. Then there would be no problem with planning for the future because whoever was in power would know that the next government would not be able to do another reorg or go down a different path.
As I said, a very difficult thing to do. If it isn't done we'll just go around in circles forever until the whole thing falls apart. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 15:31 - Jan 8 with 872 views | krunchykarrot |
| NHS crisis on 13:02 - Jan 8 by johnlangy |
It's been said many times recently that the NHS should be taken out of politics and the different parties ideology altogether. A very difficult thing to do but brilliant if it could be done.
It would need ALL members of the HOC to agree. It would require a set of principles fixed by law which every government would have to follow. Then there would be no problem with planning for the future because whoever was in power would know that the next government would not be able to do another reorg or go down a different path.
As I said, a very difficult thing to do. If it isn't done we'll just go around in circles forever until the whole thing falls apart. |
The circle's nearly complete JL. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 15:44 - Jan 8 with 855 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 13:02 - Jan 8 by johnlangy |
It's been said many times recently that the NHS should be taken out of politics and the different parties ideology altogether. A very difficult thing to do but brilliant if it could be done.
It would need ALL members of the HOC to agree. It would require a set of principles fixed by law which every government would have to follow. Then there would be no problem with planning for the future because whoever was in power would know that the next government would not be able to do another reorg or go down a different path.
As I said, a very difficult thing to do. If it isn't done we'll just go around in circles forever until the whole thing falls apart. |
great post John but the problem there is, they won't agree. Those in Westminster thrive on their ideological noonsense. We'd need an independent commission to recommend changes and then it'd be back to the HoC to debate them.
It'd take years, more than one parliament I reckon for sure and the'd want so many changes just to be seen to be doing something. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 17:31 - Jan 8 with 835 views | johnlangy |
| NHS crisis on 15:44 - Jan 8 by SullutaCreturned |
great post John but the problem there is, they won't agree. Those in Westminster thrive on their ideological noonsense. We'd need an independent commission to recommend changes and then it'd be back to the HoC to debate them.
It'd take years, more than one parliament I reckon for sure and the'd want so many changes just to be seen to be doing something. |
I don't disagree. It's the way it's always been. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 17:44 - Jan 8 with 831 views | Dr_Winston |
You can't take something as inherently political as the NHS out of political control without massively changing it. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| NHS crisis on 08:53 - Jan 9 with 797 views | Fireboy2 |
| NHS crisis on 17:44 - Jan 8 by Dr_Winston |
You can't take something as inherently political as the NHS out of political control without massively changing it. |
It will never be taken out of political control because the party in power cronies will make money from it. |  | | |
| NHS crisis on 09:45 - Jan 9 with 773 views | johnlangy |
| NHS crisis on 08:53 - Jan 9 by Fireboy2 |
It will never be taken out of political control because the party in power cronies will make money from it. |
I can't disagree with you or the good doctor.
I suppose I was just making the point that that's the only way it may ever work. Just bouncing from one ideology under one government to another under a different government is what has caused the problem. And it won't stop.
And if it doesn't stop the only way forward is to keep ploughing more and more money into an incredibly inefficient system. And we'll just have to accept it. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 14:05 - Jan 9 with 725 views | waynekerr55 |
| NHS crisis on 11:56 - Jan 8 by krunchykarrot |
Exactley, nurses are leaving to go agency working for more money whilst they still can as there is a shortage. There is a countrywide problem which ive never seen before where there are job vacancies galore during a inflatory period. Teachers have been doing the same for years. I torn over this issue, but there are negative consequences for patients and pupils as continuity and responsibility suffers.
Ive stated before offer free training 4K pay rise upto 35k say and just 4k above and see if we can entice nurses back as the pension bump will be hard to beat in the private sector.
As for IT this question was asked the other morning. "what organisation buys the most Fax machines a year" |
Here's a question. Who used to manage agency pools in the NHS before Jeremy Hunt sold it off? |  |
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| NHS crisis on 14:59 - Jan 9 with 713 views | BryanSwan |
| NHS crisis on 09:45 - Jan 9 by johnlangy |
I can't disagree with you or the good doctor.
I suppose I was just making the point that that's the only way it may ever work. Just bouncing from one ideology under one government to another under a different government is what has caused the problem. And it won't stop.
And if it doesn't stop the only way forward is to keep ploughing more and more money into an incredibly inefficient system. And we'll just have to accept it. |
Is it even bouncing between political ideologies though?
Both parties promise more hospitals, nurses, shorter waits etc etc then get elected and very quickly renege on those promise.
It is more beneficial for the NHS not to work and to use it as an electoral tool and somewhat of a cash cow for what privatisation they can eek out each term. | |
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| NHS crisis on 15:57 - Jan 9 with 688 views | Whiterockin |
| NHS crisis on 14:59 - Jan 9 by BryanSwan |
Is it even bouncing between political ideologies though?
Both parties promise more hospitals, nurses, shorter waits etc etc then get elected and very quickly renege on those promise.
It is more beneficial for the NHS not to work and to use it as an electoral tool and somewhat of a cash cow for what privatisation they can eek out each term. |
Everyone promises the world when in opposition, until they get into power and have to find the money to pay for it. Always the same irrespective of the party. |  | | |
| NHS crisis on 18:18 - Jan 9 with 649 views | SullutaCreturned |
| NHS crisis on 15:57 - Jan 9 by Whiterockin |
Everyone promises the world when in opposition, until they get into power and have to find the money to pay for it. Always the same irrespective of the party. |
Yeah, I think you are right.
I'd get rid of nukes and use that money to help the NHS.
I know people think we need a deterrent and I'd give it to NATO and pay our share which would still be cheaper.
To be honest, if nukes were launched against the UK then they woud most likely have been launched against others incluodng the USA because of the NATO defence pledge. That means the word is over so I wouldnt care if we had more to fire back. I really wouldn't care, all I would know was my world was ending. In which case I'd scrap the nukes and do something to make peoples lives better. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 10:17 - Jan 10 with 589 views | Fireboy2 |
| NHS crisis on 18:18 - Jan 9 by SullutaCreturned |
Yeah, I think you are right.
I'd get rid of nukes and use that money to help the NHS.
I know people think we need a deterrent and I'd give it to NATO and pay our share which would still be cheaper.
To be honest, if nukes were launched against the UK then they woud most likely have been launched against others incluodng the USA because of the NATO defence pledge. That means the word is over so I wouldnt care if we had more to fire back. I really wouldn't care, all I would know was my world was ending. In which case I'd scrap the nukes and do something to make peoples lives better. |
Been saying this for years Sul 🤔
As you say we wouldn't exist anymore if a nuclear war kicked off, get the money spent on looking after the NHS. | | | |
| NHS crisis on 12:09 - Jan 10 with 573 views | Boundy |
| NHS crisis on 08:53 - Jan 9 by Fireboy2 |
It will never be taken out of political control because the party in power cronies will make money from it. |
You're sadly correct, SNP = NHS in collapse
England Westmisnster = NHS in collapse
Wales labour =NHS in collapse
N I. Westminster = NHS in collapse. it would appear that devolved nor central govenment has much to crow about regarding managemnet of vital service and what ever your politics. no one can deny both main parties have had a hand in its decline | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| NHS crisis on 12:17 - Jan 10 with 556 views | pencoedjack |
| NHS crisis on 18:34 - Jan 7 by BryanSwan |
Unfortunately i don't think Starmer is your man if you want real change or change for ordinary people. I've said from the start that 10 years ago he would've been firmly a member of the Conservatives with his ideology.
Only the other day he stated how his vision for the NHS was for the state "to work in partnership with private business".
Having had need of A&E services it pains me to see how exhausted and broken the staff our, they do a fantastic job given the circumstances , but for how much longer? |
Is that always a bad thing?
If an orthopaedic company will help with getting a patient up & about & out of hospital will aftercare should that be discarded? |  | | |
| NHS crisis on 17:11 - Jan 10 with 529 views | johnlangy |
| NHS crisis on 14:59 - Jan 9 by BryanSwan |
Is it even bouncing between political ideologies though?
Both parties promise more hospitals, nurses, shorter waits etc etc then get elected and very quickly renege on those promise.
It is more beneficial for the NHS not to work and to use it as an electoral tool and somewhat of a cash cow for what privatisation they can eek out each term. |
I had a quick look back to the last Labour government and what they did regarding funding the NHS. They actually increased funding hugely and brought waiting times down enormously as well. | | | |
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