| Wearing of Facemasks 11:41 - Aug 12 with 10119 views | exhmrc1 |
Our Chief Medical Adviser in Wales believes the use of face masks offers very little benefit and can actually lead to more cases as people take more risks when wearing them.
Back in April we had 391 new cases in a day. Yesterday we had 13 new cases and the day before 12. Yesterday there were 6 cases in Swansea and 4 in Wrexham out of the 13. 5 of the 6 in Swansea were discovered by a mobile testing unit suggesting it was targeted possibly in a factory or farm setting. We do not have compulsory face mask wearing in shops.
In England and places like France the numbers have hugely increased despite people wearing face masks. UK has had over 1000 new cases yesterday and Sunday. Both were the highest figure since June.
Has Frank Atherton been proven right. Figures have been dropping in Wales without masks while increasing elsewhere wher masks are being used, |  | | |  |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:25 - Aug 13 with 1252 views | Catullus |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:03 - Aug 13 by controversial_jack |
More tested and getting results negative doesn't indicate there are less cases, it just means more ppl without the virus are getting tested |
That's it in a nutshell. If Rngland is testing more and finding new cases but Wales is hardly testing so not finding as many new cases, there is the sticking point.
We can't be sure that there aren't more people in Wales who have covid and that won't change unless we start mass testing.
That is why we needed a Uk wide approach and why some scientists backed mass testing. It could turn out we have alot more infected people than we realise and we are currently just playing a difficult game with one eye shut.
The reality seems to be that nobody really knows. | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:48 - Aug 13 with 1245 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:25 - Aug 13 by Catullus |
That's it in a nutshell. If Rngland is testing more and finding new cases but Wales is hardly testing so not finding as many new cases, there is the sticking point.
We can't be sure that there aren't more people in Wales who have covid and that won't change unless we start mass testing.
That is why we needed a Uk wide approach and why some scientists backed mass testing. It could turn out we have alot more infected people than we realise and we are currently just playing a difficult game with one eye shut.
The reality seems to be that nobody really knows. |
The fact is that England isnt testing vastly more and Wales testing hardly any. A couple of days ago Wales tested 6146 which is the equivalent of the UK level of over 120,000. Prior to this Wales had tested more. England tested 160000 it really isnt that much more. Our 6146 tests produced 8 new cases. England's 160000 which is the equivalent of 8000 in Wales found over 1000 cases. The difference isnt that vast. Had Wales tested 8000 instead of 6000 the number of new cases would have been 11. England's figure was 1009 | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 06:34 - Aug 14 with 1211 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:48 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
The fact is that England isnt testing vastly more and Wales testing hardly any. A couple of days ago Wales tested 6146 which is the equivalent of the UK level of over 120,000. Prior to this Wales had tested more. England tested 160000 it really isnt that much more. Our 6146 tests produced 8 new cases. England's 160000 which is the equivalent of 8000 in Wales found over 1000 cases. The difference isnt that vast. Had Wales tested 8000 instead of 6000 the number of new cases would have been 11. England's figure was 1009 |
Wrong and not about face masks. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 07:22 - Aug 14 with 1200 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 06:34 - Aug 14 by Scotia |
Wrong and not about face masks. |
Right just because the fact do not fit doesnt make them wrong
Despite testing capacity standing at more than 15,000 each day in Wales just 6,586 took place on Thursday, August 6.
UK coronavirus summary
1,062 positive tests
165,176 tests processed
6586 is te equivalent of 136659.. 165176 is the equivalent of 7960. Not hugely different and other days have been higher. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 07:23 - Aug 14 with 1199 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 23:03 - Aug 13 by controversial_jack |
More tested and getting results negative doesn't indicate there are less cases, it just means more ppl without the virus are getting tested |
Well it does really, it would be very bad luck for that not to be the case.
When considered alongside reducing hospital admissions, ONS survey data and other studies there are probably less cases and definitely not a great increase. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:34 - Aug 14 with 1158 views | controversial_jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 07:23 - Aug 14 by Scotia |
Well it does really, it would be very bad luck for that not to be the case.
When considered alongside reducing hospital admissions, ONS survey data and other studies there are probably less cases and definitely not a great increase. |
We can only test those that come forward. I'm sure many can't drive to get to the testing sites, or don't feel well enough to go | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:41 - Aug 14 with 1156 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:34 - Aug 14 by controversial_jack |
We can only test those that come forward. I'm sure many can't drive to get to the testing sites, or don't feel well enough to go |
The fact is that Wales is currently testing using 4 methods
NHS Wales Tests in Hospital usually A&E
NHS Wales Tests in other places. This is mainly care homes or testing centres
Private labs Home Test This is done at home.
Private Labs Mobile Testing Units. This is the type of targeted testing used in the factories in Angelsey, Merthyr Tydfil and Wrexham where clusters of cases have been discovered. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:42 - Aug 14 with 1155 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:34 - Aug 14 by controversial_jack |
We can only test those that come forward. I'm sure many can't drive to get to the testing sites, or don't feel well enough to go |
A lot of tests now are done at home. Either via door to door visits or through mail. There's no doubt we are missing some cases but nowhere near as many as earlier in the pandemic | | | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:08 - Aug 14 with 1152 views | controversial_jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:42 - Aug 14 by Scotia |
A lot of tests now are done at home. Either via door to door visits or through mail. There's no doubt we are missing some cases but nowhere near as many as earlier in the pandemic |
They need to have the symptoms first. So if a person doesn't phone the appropriate number etc, then they don't get the test.Testing is not done on asymptomatic people | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:21 - Aug 14 with 1145 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:08 - Aug 14 by controversial_jack |
They need to have the symptoms first. So if a person doesn't phone the appropriate number etc, then they don't get the test.Testing is not done on asymptomatic people |
Not neccesarily - in areas of tighter local restrictions they are testing on people door steps. including asympotomatic people.
Don't forget in early April only people in hospitals were being tested. We will never be able to test the entire population but we have a much better idea of where this virus is now. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:26 - Aug 14 with 1144 views | chad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:02 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
I have used buses and shops quite a few times. Here are some facts. Double decker buses have low roofs. On one day I was on the bus going to Swansea 2 women and 2 kids got on in Clydach and sat right in front of me a couple of feet away. I was at risk got off and got on another bus in Swansea. Tuesday I went to catch a bus in the Quadrant which is normally a double decker but that had broken down. There were approx 20 going on that bus so I left it go and caught the next one. People on those buses were very close to each other for longish periods half hour or more so the wearing of masks is advisable.
I have been in Tesco's and McColls in Pontardawe, Cooperative in Clydach. M&S, Market, Debenhams and Wilco's in Swansea and at no time was I within 2 metres of anyone for any length of time. All have high roofs. I have felt safe so dont need to wear masks.
The test, trace and protect ask for people you have been within 2 metre of for 15 minutes. I have not been within 2 metres of anyone for 15 minutes in any shop but I would have been on buses had I not got off in Morriston.
As I said previously the main reason for wearing masks on public transport is because masks are compulsory in England and buses and trains are going between both countries so for ease for the operators there needs to be a consistent policy. That is why the wearing of masks on public transport was brought in and taxis which you mentioned previously are a very confined space. |
See you really confused me here.
You say the main reason for wearing masks on public transport is to have a standard policy with England, so it doesn’t get confusing on cross border services.
So presumably if we had no cross border services you think they probably wouldn’t be necessary
Yet you have stated people are not social distancing on buses, they are confined areas, and you have waited to catch another bus when they have been crowded. All sounds v.dodgy yet you say they were only brought in here for consistent policy?
What about all those bus drivers that died in London. They were not within 2 meters of a single person for 15 minutes up front on their buses. Perhaps just being coughed upon, or being in an environment with a heavy load of other people, like shops and hospitals for instance.
Even WHO now are starting to accept aerosols remaining in the atmosphere in places like shops, with no wind to disperse them, no matter how high the roof is. |  | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:44 - Aug 14 with 1139 views | Catullus |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:26 - Aug 14 by chad |
See you really confused me here.
You say the main reason for wearing masks on public transport is to have a standard policy with England, so it doesn’t get confusing on cross border services.
So presumably if we had no cross border services you think they probably wouldn’t be necessary
Yet you have stated people are not social distancing on buses, they are confined areas, and you have waited to catch another bus when they have been crowded. All sounds v.dodgy yet you say they were only brought in here for consistent policy?
What about all those bus drivers that died in London. They were not within 2 meters of a single person for 15 minutes up front on their buses. Perhaps just being coughed upon, or being in an environment with a heavy load of other people, like shops and hospitals for instance.
Even WHO now are starting to accept aerosols remaining in the atmosphere in places like shops, with no wind to disperse them, no matter how high the roof is. |
That's what puzzled me, it's why I mentioned TFL earlier. It doesn't matter how high the roof is, people exhale at face level which is broadly (for adults) between 5ft and 6'5. It (exhaled droplets carrying virus loads )doesn't sink immediately to the floor nor fly staright up to the ceiling but it hangs around at face level being moved by draughts, most of those draughts being created by people moving. If you walk down an aisle after an infected person you could breathe in infected droplets. If you wear a mask you will catch most of the droplets in the mask.
There is also a danger of picking up the virus by touch which is why people have been asked to try to not touch things unless they're buying them. Again what has the height of a ceiling got to do with that? That's why we are all asked to use hand sanitiser on entry.
If these things only make a small positive difference so what? If it saves lives it's worth the effort.
It's a;so why I said we need a UK wide policy and not have all 4 countries doing different things. It causes confusion and problems. | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:29 - Aug 14 with 1131 views | exhmrc1 |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:44 - Aug 14 by Catullus |
That's what puzzled me, it's why I mentioned TFL earlier. It doesn't matter how high the roof is, people exhale at face level which is broadly (for adults) between 5ft and 6'5. It (exhaled droplets carrying virus loads )doesn't sink immediately to the floor nor fly staright up to the ceiling but it hangs around at face level being moved by draughts, most of those draughts being created by people moving. If you walk down an aisle after an infected person you could breathe in infected droplets. If you wear a mask you will catch most of the droplets in the mask.
There is also a danger of picking up the virus by touch which is why people have been asked to try to not touch things unless they're buying them. Again what has the height of a ceiling got to do with that? That's why we are all asked to use hand sanitiser on entry.
If these things only make a small positive difference so what? If it saves lives it's worth the effort.
It's a;so why I said we need a UK wide policy and not have all 4 countries doing different things. It causes confusion and problems. |
The whole idea was to have a 4 country approach and you are right that would have been the right approach. However Boris Johnson moved away from that and even changed a slogan without discussing it with the other leaders. All the policies that have changed in England werent discussed with the devolved leaders. In fact Boris Johnson didnt speak to Mark Drakeford or Nicola Sturgeon for over 2 months. The 4 chief medical officers discuss matters several times a week. They can suggest the same policy but cannot rely on politicians following their lead. Johnson has gone against his chief medical and scientific officers advice and that is why we have different policies. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:39 - Aug 14 with 1129 views | Catullus |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:29 - Aug 14 by exhmrc1 |
The whole idea was to have a 4 country approach and you are right that would have been the right approach. However Boris Johnson moved away from that and even changed a slogan without discussing it with the other leaders. All the policies that have changed in England werent discussed with the devolved leaders. In fact Boris Johnson didnt speak to Mark Drakeford or Nicola Sturgeon for over 2 months. The 4 chief medical officers discuss matters several times a week. They can suggest the same policy but cannot rely on politicians following their lead. Johnson has gone against his chief medical and scientific officers advice and that is why we have different policies. |
Yep and it doesn't necessarily mean Drakeford is right but it does show that Bojo is wrong. Look at the problems it caused on the border. | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 17:15 - Aug 14 with 1092 views | controversial_jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 12:21 - Aug 14 by Scotia |
Not neccesarily - in areas of tighter local restrictions they are testing on people door steps. including asympotomatic people.
Don't forget in early April only people in hospitals were being tested. We will never be able to test the entire population but we have a much better idea of where this virus is now. |
That would mean more negative results.Even in areas of high concentration covid infections, it's still only a small percentage of people that get it | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 18:18 - Aug 14 with 1078 views | Scotia |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 17:15 - Aug 14 by controversial_jack |
That would mean more negative results.Even in areas of high concentration covid infections, it's still only a small percentage of people that get it |
Yes it would. But it would be the first indication of community spread. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 19:38 - Aug 14 with 1061 views | Neath_Jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 13:02 - Aug 13 by exhmrc1 |
I have used buses and shops quite a few times. Here are some facts. Double decker buses have low roofs. On one day I was on the bus going to Swansea 2 women and 2 kids got on in Clydach and sat right in front of me a couple of feet away. I was at risk got off and got on another bus in Swansea. Tuesday I went to catch a bus in the Quadrant which is normally a double decker but that had broken down. There were approx 20 going on that bus so I left it go and caught the next one. People on those buses were very close to each other for longish periods half hour or more so the wearing of masks is advisable.
I have been in Tesco's and McColls in Pontardawe, Cooperative in Clydach. M&S, Market, Debenhams and Wilco's in Swansea and at no time was I within 2 metres of anyone for any length of time. All have high roofs. I have felt safe so dont need to wear masks.
The test, trace and protect ask for people you have been within 2 metre of for 15 minutes. I have not been within 2 metres of anyone for 15 minutes in any shop but I would have been on buses had I not got off in Morriston.
As I said previously the main reason for wearing masks on public transport is because masks are compulsory in England and buses and trains are going between both countries so for ease for the operators there needs to be a consistent policy. That is why the wearing of masks on public transport was brought in and taxis which you mentioned previously are a very confined space. |
"The test, trace and protect ask for people you have been within 2 metre of for 15 minutes. I have not been within 2 metres of anyone for 15 minutes in any shop but I would have been on buses had I not got off in Morriston".
That isn't true.
We have had two people be told to isolate for 14 days, due to coming within 3m of covid positive person, for around 5 minutes inside a building. Both were talking to the covid positive person.
What you typed is what the NHS say is the criteria, but completely different when they contacted us. |  |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 19:42 - Aug 14 with 1060 views | Neath_Jack |
Why are people still struggling with telling the difference between respirators, and face coverings. They are two completely different things.
The number of people that still bumping their gums about face coverings don't work in protecting the wearer against the virus. Nobody in authority has ever said they do, but the gimps think that they've latched onto some big government conspiracy theory (another one). | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 20:07 - Aug 14 with 1046 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 19:42 - Aug 14 by Neath_Jack |
Why are people still struggling with telling the difference between respirators, and face coverings. They are two completely different things.
The number of people that still bumping their gums about face coverings don't work in protecting the wearer against the virus. Nobody in authority has ever said they do, but the gimps think that they've latched onto some big government conspiracy theory (another one). |
Because everyone is an expert in everything. Haven’t you noticed? |  |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 20:37 - Aug 14 with 1034 views | Neath_Jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 20:07 - Aug 14 by exiledclaseboy |
Because everyone is an expert in everything. Haven’t you noticed? |
Yeah, true dat. | |
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| Wearing of Facemasks on 08:19 - Aug 15 with 990 views | Whiterockin |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 20:07 - Aug 14 by exiledclaseboy |
Because everyone is an expert in everything. Haven’t you noticed? |
True, everyone has theory's and opinions but when they masquerade them as facts that's were it becomes dangerous. Some think if they repeat their opinions often enough others will think it is true and find them super intelligent. Clearly not the case. |  | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 09:41 - Aug 15 with 963 views | chad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 20:07 - Aug 14 by exiledclaseboy |
Because everyone is an expert in everything. Haven’t you noticed? |
Indeed, like the density of canteen mugs ;) | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 09:55 - Aug 15 with 955 views | chad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 19:42 - Aug 14 by Neath_Jack |
Why are people still struggling with telling the difference between respirators, and face coverings. They are two completely different things.
The number of people that still bumping their gums about face coverings don't work in protecting the wearer against the virus. Nobody in authority has ever said they do, but the gimps think that they've latched onto some big government conspiracy theory (another one). |
Isn’t it more a case of what people presume rather than what the government says.
I.e that the choice to wear a mask (rather than a respirator) is just is a personal one, because it is primarily a method of protecting yourself, so it only matter to you if you wear one or not. Whereas in truth it is primarily protecting others.
Although any reasonable face coving must provide a residual protection from stray droplets for e.g. | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:15 - Aug 15 with 921 views | controversial_jack |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 09:55 - Aug 15 by chad |
Isn’t it more a case of what people presume rather than what the government says.
I.e that the choice to wear a mask (rather than a respirator) is just is a personal one, because it is primarily a method of protecting yourself, so it only matter to you if you wear one or not. Whereas in truth it is primarily protecting others.
Although any reasonable face coving must provide a residual protection from stray droplets for e.g. |
Yes. Micro droplets from coughing or sneezing can hang around in the air for a considerable time.A mask will help prevent against this. It's also transmitted through micro droplets when ppl talk to each other.Social distancing will help here
Using both methods should be beneficial. It's not rocket science, and I don't know why ppl need the govt to tell them this | | | |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 11:35 - Aug 15 with 916 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Wearing of Facemasks on 19:42 - Aug 14 by Neath_Jack |
Why are people still struggling with telling the difference between respirators, and face coverings. They are two completely different things.
The number of people that still bumping their gums about face coverings don't work in protecting the wearer against the virus. Nobody in authority has ever said they do, but the gimps think that they've latched onto some big government conspiracy theory (another one). |
Sorry to disagree with you yet again.
The authority that is the head of the South Korean Pandemic team, with experience of successfully leading his country through 3 pandemics says that against COVID-19 masks, gloves & glasses are essential.
That is not me bumping my gums, that is one of the world leading authorities on infectious deseases and MERS, SARS and COVID-19 pandemics in particular.
You may know what you are talking about regarding mask usage & fitting, but I will still believe him over you every day of the week. | | | |
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