| New cases 15:01 - Jun 29 with 7157 views | controversial_jack |
97, new cases found in a meat packing plant in Merthyr. What is it with these firms? |  | | |  |
| New cases on 15:04 - Jun 29 with 4434 views | squarebear |
It's their contracts of employment.
Work or starve, basically.
Then there's the high concentration of people, cold air, high humidity. Presumably that aids transmission. [Post edited 29 Jun 2020 15:06]
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| New cases on 15:28 - Jun 29 with 4382 views | jack247 |
All assumptions on my part, but I’d guess they are on zero hours or inadequate sick pay contracts, so may not be able to afford not to work. The plants probably aren’t geared towards social distancing and they are effectively working in a fridge. I’m sure they’ve got PPE, but it may not be enough. | | | |
| New cases on 15:31 - Jun 29 with 4376 views | exhmrc1 |
It is concerning with these meat processing farms. Maybe the Wag needs to test everyone in all the meat processing plants in Wales. Something like this hides the true position in the rest of Wales. 6 new cases between Hywel Dda, Powys, Aneurin Bevan, Swansea Bay and Cardiff and the Vale yesterday and maybe a couple of pillar 2 cases. Similar in North Wales. 15 cases in all of Wales except Merthyr Tydfil, | | | |
| New cases on 17:02 - Jun 29 with 4271 views | Kilkennyjack |
| New cases on 15:31 - Jun 29 by exhmrc1 |
It is concerning with these meat processing farms. Maybe the Wag needs to test everyone in all the meat processing plants in Wales. Something like this hides the true position in the rest of Wales. 6 new cases between Hywel Dda, Powys, Aneurin Bevan, Swansea Bay and Cardiff and the Vale yesterday and maybe a couple of pillar 2 cases. Similar in North Wales. 15 cases in all of Wales except Merthyr Tydfil, |
Zero new cases in Swansea today again.
Only 2 new cases in Swansea since 16/06.
It was 1 a day from 01/06 thru to 15/06.
Its pretty hard every day, but we are doing the right things for sure. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| New cases on 17:19 - Jun 29 with 4240 views | Scotia |
Ironically the only piece of legislation that WG has put in place to protect from coronavirus transmission is in the workplace. It is not going well.
I'd suggest 14 days isolation for all employees and respective households and losen the shackles of lock down carefully elsewhere.
13 pillar 2 infections today, so a total of 28 outside of Merthyr. Scotland had 5, and the 4th day in a row of zero deaths north of the border. | | | |
| New cases on 17:42 - Jun 29 with 4211 views | johnlangy |
| New cases on 15:28 - Jun 29 by jack247 |
All assumptions on my part, but I’d guess they are on zero hours or inadequate sick pay contracts, so may not be able to afford not to work. The plants probably aren’t geared towards social distancing and they are effectively working in a fridge. I’m sure they’ve got PPE, but it may not be enough. |
Correct. As is squarebear. | | | |
| New cases on 18:22 - Jun 29 with 4174 views | exhmrc1 |
| New cases on 17:19 - Jun 29 by Scotia |
Ironically the only piece of legislation that WG has put in place to protect from coronavirus transmission is in the workplace. It is not going well.
I'd suggest 14 days isolation for all employees and respective households and losen the shackles of lock down carefully elsewhere.
13 pillar 2 infections today, so a total of 28 outside of Merthyr. Scotland had 5, and the 4th day in a row of zero deaths north of the border. |
The 13 cases today were 5 yesterday. They are probably not an accurate figure due to weekend. They largely probably relate to 1 of the factories mainly in North Wales due to the proximity of the testing centre to North Wales. The graph has increased at the same time as there was an increase in the 2 factories suggesting they are probably connected to the outbreaks in North Wales which havent all been tested yet. I think the figures speak for themselves which show how low the figures are despite your efforts to suggest otherwise
21 May 166
22 May 138
23 May 182
24 May 140
and compare that with
26 June 65
27 June 46
28 June 25
29 June 116 which includes 97 cases in Merthyr. leaving 19 for the rest of wales. 1 related to someone outside of Wales and 3 address unknown and as you said previously were probably related to foreign workers at a meat plant. Even adding in your 13 pillar 2 cases it still leaves 28 which is a massive improvement you just dont want to see.
There are also piller 2 figures that I havent included which show 16, 6, 32 and 22 which are higher than the last 4 days of 4, 13,10 and 8 ie 76 against 35 over double..
The actually show that Swansea has had 1 case in the last 4 days and Neath Port Talbot hasnt had any. Neither has Pembrokeshire. Powys had 1, Ceredigion and the Vale of Glamorgan 2 each and Bridgend 3. The only county locally with more than 1 a day is Carmarthenshire with 7. The area from Bridgend to Pembrokeshire and from Swansea to Welshpool and Machynlleth has 14 cases in 7 days plus possibly a few piller 2 cases.
That to most people is a huge success. 3 to 4 cases a day with possibly 1 or 2 more say 6 for all that area per day but all you are interested is the negative around Meat preperation plants than giving credit for the remarkable turnaround and the good news for the people of this area. [Post edited 29 Jun 2020 18:49]
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| New cases on 20:27 - Jun 29 with 4086 views | Scotia |
| New cases on 18:22 - Jun 29 by exhmrc1 |
The 13 cases today were 5 yesterday. They are probably not an accurate figure due to weekend. They largely probably relate to 1 of the factories mainly in North Wales due to the proximity of the testing centre to North Wales. The graph has increased at the same time as there was an increase in the 2 factories suggesting they are probably connected to the outbreaks in North Wales which havent all been tested yet. I think the figures speak for themselves which show how low the figures are despite your efforts to suggest otherwise
21 May 166
22 May 138
23 May 182
24 May 140
and compare that with
26 June 65
27 June 46
28 June 25
29 June 116 which includes 97 cases in Merthyr. leaving 19 for the rest of wales. 1 related to someone outside of Wales and 3 address unknown and as you said previously were probably related to foreign workers at a meat plant. Even adding in your 13 pillar 2 cases it still leaves 28 which is a massive improvement you just dont want to see.
There are also piller 2 figures that I havent included which show 16, 6, 32 and 22 which are higher than the last 4 days of 4, 13,10 and 8 ie 76 against 35 over double..
The actually show that Swansea has had 1 case in the last 4 days and Neath Port Talbot hasnt had any. Neither has Pembrokeshire. Powys had 1, Ceredigion and the Vale of Glamorgan 2 each and Bridgend 3. The only county locally with more than 1 a day is Carmarthenshire with 7. The area from Bridgend to Pembrokeshire and from Swansea to Welshpool and Machynlleth has 14 cases in 7 days plus possibly a few piller 2 cases.
That to most people is a huge success. 3 to 4 cases a day with possibly 1 or 2 more say 6 for all that area per day but all you are interested is the negative around Meat preperation plants than giving credit for the remarkable turnaround and the good news for the people of this area. [Post edited 29 Jun 2020 18:49]
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Let's not turn a third thread in to this WG are doing well nonsense.
It started two threads ago with you saying that the R figure proved Drakeford was correct in his approach and better than other regions Wales R is now the highest in the UK.
We've had and still have the tightest lockdown in the UK and it has failed. He tried to legislate to protect workers and that failed too. We have been last out of the blocks on testing capacity, online test booking, test and tracing amongst other things.
We have had a smaller proportion of deaths and that is great but we have a less ethnically diverse population and no very large and densely populated cities.
The figures have reduced outside of the factories and that is brilliant but inevitable in the tight lockdown we have had, and still not by as much as other countries. England, Scotland and Northern Ireland all have similar meat processing plants but overall their cases have decreased and they are on their way out of lock down ours have increased and we still won't be able to visit family 10 mins away whilst the English can go on the lash. | | | |
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| New cases on 21:25 - Jun 29 with 4022 views | exhmrc1 |
| New cases on 20:27 - Jun 29 by Scotia |
Let's not turn a third thread in to this WG are doing well nonsense.
It started two threads ago with you saying that the R figure proved Drakeford was correct in his approach and better than other regions Wales R is now the highest in the UK.
We've had and still have the tightest lockdown in the UK and it has failed. He tried to legislate to protect workers and that failed too. We have been last out of the blocks on testing capacity, online test booking, test and tracing amongst other things.
We have had a smaller proportion of deaths and that is great but we have a less ethnically diverse population and no very large and densely populated cities.
The figures have reduced outside of the factories and that is brilliant but inevitable in the tight lockdown we have had, and still not by as much as other countries. England, Scotland and Northern Ireland all have similar meat processing plants but overall their cases have decreased and they are on their way out of lock down ours have increased and we still won't be able to visit family 10 mins away whilst the English can go on the lash. |
You keep trying to use any excuse to knock Drakeford for your own political reasons. You keep trying to say about the Piller 2 rates like you did today. 13 cases wow. 1 case per local authority every 2 days. That will make a massive difference wouldnt it. Swansea would have 3 cases in 4 days. Neath Port Talbot and Powys 2 each. Massive figures arent they. The 5 local authorities that used to be Gwent had 10 new cases between then an average of 2 so we add your 2 cases in they have 1 case per day.
This is the reality not your dream world. The figures are rock bottom throughout Mid, South and West Wales. Most local authorities have been showing nothing 1 or 2 cases. It couldn't be any less despite your efforts to paint it otherwise. Swansea Bay 1 new case, Cardiff and the Vale 10, Aneurin Bevan 10, Powys Health Board 1, Hywel Dda 9 and Cwm Taf minus the factory in Merthyr 9. That is 40 new cases over all South and Mid Wales. Add in your beloved Pillar 2 35 and you have 75 cases in 16 Local authorities across nearly all Wales at an average of 5 per authority over 4 days. Those are hardly massive figures and most will welcome them and congratulate Drakeford and Co on their efforts. We are very close to getting out of this pandemic in Wales. Even North Wales has shown just 17 cases over the last 2 days over 6 local authorities including Angelsey and Wreham. 3 cases per authority or 5 if you include your beloved Pillar 2.
The figures really speak for themselves but your hatred of Drakeford means you will do anything rather than giving credit. 5 cases everywhere in Wales over the last 4 days except the factory in Merthyr. I suggest that is excellent and within the next 3 weeks we could well have got rid of coronavirus or at least have minimal cases, | | | |
| New cases on 21:58 - Jun 29 with 3976 views | Professor |
| New cases on 21:25 - Jun 29 by exhmrc1 |
You keep trying to use any excuse to knock Drakeford for your own political reasons. You keep trying to say about the Piller 2 rates like you did today. 13 cases wow. 1 case per local authority every 2 days. That will make a massive difference wouldnt it. Swansea would have 3 cases in 4 days. Neath Port Talbot and Powys 2 each. Massive figures arent they. The 5 local authorities that used to be Gwent had 10 new cases between then an average of 2 so we add your 2 cases in they have 1 case per day.
This is the reality not your dream world. The figures are rock bottom throughout Mid, South and West Wales. Most local authorities have been showing nothing 1 or 2 cases. It couldn't be any less despite your efforts to paint it otherwise. Swansea Bay 1 new case, Cardiff and the Vale 10, Aneurin Bevan 10, Powys Health Board 1, Hywel Dda 9 and Cwm Taf minus the factory in Merthyr 9. That is 40 new cases over all South and Mid Wales. Add in your beloved Pillar 2 35 and you have 75 cases in 16 Local authorities across nearly all Wales at an average of 5 per authority over 4 days. Those are hardly massive figures and most will welcome them and congratulate Drakeford and Co on their efforts. We are very close to getting out of this pandemic in Wales. Even North Wales has shown just 17 cases over the last 2 days over 6 local authorities including Angelsey and Wreham. 3 cases per authority or 5 if you include your beloved Pillar 2.
The figures really speak for themselves but your hatred of Drakeford means you will do anything rather than giving credit. 5 cases everywhere in Wales over the last 4 days except the factory in Merthyr. I suggest that is excellent and within the next 3 weeks we could well have got rid of coronavirus or at least have minimal cases, |
You are correct. A good job has been done in Wales, given the valleys hotpots early on. Meat processing is clearly high risk as this has been happening across the world. | | | |
| New cases on 22:06 - Jun 29 with 3960 views | Scotia |
| New cases on 21:25 - Jun 29 by exhmrc1 |
You keep trying to use any excuse to knock Drakeford for your own political reasons. You keep trying to say about the Piller 2 rates like you did today. 13 cases wow. 1 case per local authority every 2 days. That will make a massive difference wouldnt it. Swansea would have 3 cases in 4 days. Neath Port Talbot and Powys 2 each. Massive figures arent they. The 5 local authorities that used to be Gwent had 10 new cases between then an average of 2 so we add your 2 cases in they have 1 case per day.
This is the reality not your dream world. The figures are rock bottom throughout Mid, South and West Wales. Most local authorities have been showing nothing 1 or 2 cases. It couldn't be any less despite your efforts to paint it otherwise. Swansea Bay 1 new case, Cardiff and the Vale 10, Aneurin Bevan 10, Powys Health Board 1, Hywel Dda 9 and Cwm Taf minus the factory in Merthyr 9. That is 40 new cases over all South and Mid Wales. Add in your beloved Pillar 2 35 and you have 75 cases in 16 Local authorities across nearly all Wales at an average of 5 per authority over 4 days. Those are hardly massive figures and most will welcome them and congratulate Drakeford and Co on their efforts. We are very close to getting out of this pandemic in Wales. Even North Wales has shown just 17 cases over the last 2 days over 6 local authorities including Angelsey and Wreham. 3 cases per authority or 5 if you include your beloved Pillar 2.
The figures really speak for themselves but your hatred of Drakeford means you will do anything rather than giving credit. 5 cases everywhere in Wales over the last 4 days except the factory in Merthyr. I suggest that is excellent and within the next 3 weeks we could well have got rid of coronavirus or at least have minimal cases, |
I have no political affiliation although I do think Drakeford is an incredibly weak leader.
Unfortunately the three processing plants are in Wales and Drakeford is in charge. He hasn't got a handle on them.
Unfortunately pillar 2 cases count. We had more pilare 2 cases than Scotland had total cases
Unfortunately you can't cherry pick cases to prove that Drakeford is doing the best job of handling this in the UK. The figures, and I mean all figures, speak for themselves. He isn't doing as well as the Northern Irish, Scots or the English (if you discount Leicester) which would seem to fit your logic. | | | |
| New cases on 22:09 - Jun 29 with 3956 views | Swanjaxs |
| New cases on 21:58 - Jun 29 by Professor |
You are correct. A good job has been done in Wales, given the valleys hotpots early on. Meat processing is clearly high risk as this has been happening across the world. |
Given the fact that meat/poultry processing plants seem to give this virus oxygen, and taking into account the number of open air congregations that have take place the past 6 or so weeks ( VE Day, demonstrations and beach gatherings) with no obvious spike in cases, then does it not look like we might be in for a bit of a hiding come October time when outside conditions will be cold and damp?
Hope I'm absolutely wrong 🙠[Post edited 29 Jun 2020 22:11]
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| New cases on 22:13 - Jun 29 with 3948 views | exhmrc1 |
| New cases on 21:58 - Jun 29 by Professor |
You are correct. A good job has been done in Wales, given the valleys hotpots early on. Meat processing is clearly high risk as this has been happening across the world. |
It seems some will do anything to criticize the wag irrespective of the facts. I have never been a Drakeford or Gething fan but they have handled this well. The figures are rock bottom and they deserve the credit as it is their policy. Policy in England has been dictated to by back benchers or to hide policy failures/bad news.
In fairness the Wag review every 3 weeks and then make decisions after checking the figures unlike England who are having to put a city in lockdown and also look at the mess the USA are in for removing the lockdown too early. | | | |
| New cases on 22:16 - Jun 29 with 3942 views | Professor |
| New cases on 22:09 - Jun 29 by Swanjaxs |
Given the fact that meat/poultry processing plants seem to give this virus oxygen, and taking into account the number of open air congregations that have take place the past 6 or so weeks ( VE Day, demonstrations and beach gatherings) with no obvious spike in cases, then does it not look like we might be in for a bit of a hiding come October time when outside conditions will be cold and damp?
Hope I'm absolutely wrong 🙠[Post edited 29 Jun 2020 22:11]
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Too early to say about the beach gatherings. Certainly meat processing is high risk as a colder, damp Interior environment with no opportunity for distancing. No one knows what autumn and winter will bring. Much care will be needed | | | |
| New cases on 22:20 - Jun 29 with 3932 views | londonlisa2001 |
| New cases on 22:16 - Jun 29 by Professor |
Too early to say about the beach gatherings. Certainly meat processing is high risk as a colder, damp Interior environment with no opportunity for distancing. No one knows what autumn and winter will bring. Much care will be needed |
The beach gatherings have been going on since the VE Day weekend. 6 weeks ish.
The first marches were 4 weeks ago now. | | | |
| New cases on 22:44 - Jun 29 with 3895 views | Swanjaxs |
| New cases on 22:20 - Jun 29 by londonlisa2001 |
The beach gatherings have been going on since the VE Day weekend. 6 weeks ish.
The first marches were 4 weeks ago now. |
That's correct.
The beaches have been crowded every good day for a couple of months now.
Its looking more and more like conditions dictate with this bà stard virus. | |
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| New cases on 23:23 - Jun 29 with 3855 views | Professor |
| New cases on 22:20 - Jun 29 by londonlisa2001 |
The beach gatherings have been going on since the VE Day weekend. 6 weeks ish.
The first marches were 4 weeks ago now. |
But the numbers at beaches have risen sharply. I am more concerned that transmission is more indoors. A everything opens we will see.
Certainly the US suggests this | | | |
| New cases on 23:31 - Jun 29 with 3846 views | Kilkennyjack |
| New cases on 22:13 - Jun 29 by exhmrc1 |
It seems some will do anything to criticize the wag irrespective of the facts. I have never been a Drakeford or Gething fan but they have handled this well. The figures are rock bottom and they deserve the credit as it is their policy. Policy in England has been dictated to by back benchers or to hide policy failures/bad news.
In fairness the Wag review every 3 weeks and then make decisions after checking the figures unlike England who are having to put a city in lockdown and also look at the mess the USA are in for removing the lockdown too early. |
Agreed.
Well done Drakers. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| New cases on 23:44 - Jun 29 with 3829 views | BytholWyn |
| New cases on 23:31 - Jun 29 by Kilkennyjack |
Agreed.
Well done Drakers. |
Read this and compare Wales' stats with those in England and Scotland: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53222182
Excess deaths are the most reliable indicators of all the stats that have been churned out arond COVID, and it makes very bad reading for the UK government. Right now I think we can fairly say that England has the worst record in the World. Given the head start the UK government had that is (or should be) hugely embarrassing. In a normally functioning society needless deaths in the thousands or tens of thousands should result in resignations. Fat chance with the current bunch of chancers.
The report on the 10 o'clock News suggested that the data hasn't yet been refined with the age profile of populations in mind. This will paint an even worse picture for relatively young England and a better picture for relatively old Wales. |  | | |
| New cases on 23:55 - Jun 29 with 3813 views | Lohengrin |
| New cases on 23:23 - Jun 29 by Professor |
But the numbers at beaches have risen sharply. I am more concerned that transmission is more indoors. A everything opens we will see.
Certainly the US suggests this |
I’ve been taking part in a mass gathering sixty hours a week every week since this whole thing started, Prof. There are thousands of us in the works under conditions which, despite attempts at social distancing, on the face of it seem especially propitious for the rapid spread of any virus - yet nothing of the sort has happened.
Any theories or do you just chalk it up to luck? |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| New cases on 06:32 - Jun 30 with 3656 views | exhmrc1 |
| New cases on 22:06 - Jun 29 by Scotia |
I have no political affiliation although I do think Drakeford is an incredibly weak leader.
Unfortunately the three processing plants are in Wales and Drakeford is in charge. He hasn't got a handle on them.
Unfortunately pillar 2 cases count. We had more pilare 2 cases than Scotland had total cases
Unfortunately you can't cherry pick cases to prove that Drakeford is doing the best job of handling this in the UK. The figures, and I mean all figures, speak for themselves. He isn't doing as well as the Northern Irish, Scots or the English (if you discount Leicester) which would seem to fit your logic. |
Drakeford is a weak leader. No the opposite applies. If anything he has been too rigid. He has steadfastly stood by his plans and not buckled. He has made decisions every 3 weeks based on the science and not just buckled as Johnson has.
Let just look at education. The Uk government told everyone the exam results would be before the end of July. They caved in under pressure and from exam boards and ofqual and ended up going back to the original dates in August. They told students that they would be able to sit exams in the autumn and go to university this year and that universities would be flexible over this. Students believed this nonsense which was never going to happen. Universities generally start terms in September and that there was no way exams taken in September, October or November were ever going to be allowed into universities this year as exam results werent going to be out until October at the earliest. That has now proven to be the case. Students resitting or private candidates will no longer have results this summer despite government ministers promises otherwise. They told everyone they would have all students back in school. Again that hasnt happened as there just isnt the space with social distancing.
The relaxation to allow people to travel anywhere was a knee jerk reaction under pressure from the back benches. done far too soon when areas of England still had high rates of the virus. Other UK governments all continued with the stay local rule and 5 mile advice. That is also the Scottish governments advice as well and both Welsh and Scottish Governments decisions mirror each other. We are seeing this now with the situation in Leicester. Other areas of the UK will be removing the rule when cases are far lower.
Johnson has cowed down to back bench pressure on bridges for foreign travel. Originally they brought in the quarantine regulations and have now buckled under back bench pressure to allow air bridges.
Opening pubs is another and shops was another issue where they acted too soon. Relaxing the 2 metre rule is another area where they have buckled under pressure from business and their back benchers. Wales and Scotland will both introduce this when the virus figures will be very low.
These are just a few issues where Johnson has buckled. If Drakeford was so weak he would have followed but he hasnt and neither has Nicola Sturgeon. Both have continued to actually follow the science whereas Johnson claims to have done so but hasnt instead caving in to pressure. His own science advisers have been saying this along with former chief advisers. Sage experts have been saying this as well. All countries have the same science to follow and 2 are following it whilst one prefers to cave in to their back benchers.
One of the leading Tories complained the Wag hadnt opened up tourism. This was at the time of the Llangefni breakout. The last thing Angelsey needed at that time was to allow tourists in but Drakeford and co didnt follow that idiotic policy trying to get the situation under control.
Drakeford has been far from weak. As I said if anything he has been too rigid and could possibly have moved faster but if the chief medical officer gives you advice only a fool ignores it and we see in Leicester the folly of not following it as well as places like Florida and Texas in the United States. | | | |
| New cases on 09:06 - Jun 30 with 3559 views | Professor |
| New cases on 23:55 - Jun 29 by Lohengrin |
I’ve been taking part in a mass gathering sixty hours a week every week since this whole thing started, Prof. There are thousands of us in the works under conditions which, despite attempts at social distancing, on the face of it seem especially propitious for the rapid spread of any virus - yet nothing of the sort has happened.
Any theories or do you just chalk it up to luck? |
Sounds partly luck-disease transmission always has a degree of stochasisty around it. The problem being once something is in it will tend to spread. If no introduction then no infection. Oddly we see this in the work we do in the field (or my colleague does really as I don't like the farm side and prefer my experimental set-up) with seeped of Campylobacter in a chicken flock. If it never gets it you get a clean flock (which is reasonable frequent in winter), and even when it gets in it has to find a susceptible host to multiply and spread. This is what I am (or was) currently doing in trying to manipulate the bugs in the gut (the microbiome) to reduce the chance of spread. It does not stop an individual being infected, but breaks the transmission (or really massively delays it) which means less at slaughter. You are in the flock, so either there has been no cases or lucky in limited transmission. | | | |
| New cases on 09:16 - Jun 30 with 3553 views | Scotia |
| New cases on 06:32 - Jun 30 by exhmrc1 |
Drakeford is a weak leader. No the opposite applies. If anything he has been too rigid. He has steadfastly stood by his plans and not buckled. He has made decisions every 3 weeks based on the science and not just buckled as Johnson has.
Let just look at education. The Uk government told everyone the exam results would be before the end of July. They caved in under pressure and from exam boards and ofqual and ended up going back to the original dates in August. They told students that they would be able to sit exams in the autumn and go to university this year and that universities would be flexible over this. Students believed this nonsense which was never going to happen. Universities generally start terms in September and that there was no way exams taken in September, October or November were ever going to be allowed into universities this year as exam results werent going to be out until October at the earliest. That has now proven to be the case. Students resitting or private candidates will no longer have results this summer despite government ministers promises otherwise. They told everyone they would have all students back in school. Again that hasnt happened as there just isnt the space with social distancing.
The relaxation to allow people to travel anywhere was a knee jerk reaction under pressure from the back benches. done far too soon when areas of England still had high rates of the virus. Other UK governments all continued with the stay local rule and 5 mile advice. That is also the Scottish governments advice as well and both Welsh and Scottish Governments decisions mirror each other. We are seeing this now with the situation in Leicester. Other areas of the UK will be removing the rule when cases are far lower.
Johnson has cowed down to back bench pressure on bridges for foreign travel. Originally they brought in the quarantine regulations and have now buckled under back bench pressure to allow air bridges.
Opening pubs is another and shops was another issue where they acted too soon. Relaxing the 2 metre rule is another area where they have buckled under pressure from business and their back benchers. Wales and Scotland will both introduce this when the virus figures will be very low.
These are just a few issues where Johnson has buckled. If Drakeford was so weak he would have followed but he hasnt and neither has Nicola Sturgeon. Both have continued to actually follow the science whereas Johnson claims to have done so but hasnt instead caving in to pressure. His own science advisers have been saying this along with former chief advisers. Sage experts have been saying this as well. All countries have the same science to follow and 2 are following it whilst one prefers to cave in to their back benchers.
One of the leading Tories complained the Wag hadnt opened up tourism. This was at the time of the Llangefni breakout. The last thing Angelsey needed at that time was to allow tourists in but Drakeford and co didnt follow that idiotic policy trying to get the situation under control.
Drakeford has been far from weak. As I said if anything he has been too rigid and could possibly have moved faster but if the chief medical officer gives you advice only a fool ignores it and we see in Leicester the folly of not following it as well as places like Florida and Texas in the United States. |
For what it's worth I think Boris is a weak leader too - far weaker than Drakeford, Boris is a clown to boot. But it is very difficult to argue that the path out of lockdown in England has gone badly. Local lockdowns are a way of handling this return to the new normal so lets hope the one in Leicester works.
Cases are falling, people are enjoying themselves and the economy is bouncing back. Beaches have been busy in England for nearly two months there have been large scale protests and cases are still falling. Whereas I can't take my dog for a walk down the Mumbles and cases are increasing. London has had among the largest and quickest fall in cases in the world.
Drakeford sticking ridgidly to plans does not make him a strong leader it makes him look like he can't make a decision, he seems to need to think about things for three weeks wait to see what happens elsewhere and then gets things wrong.
Feel free to look at eductaion if you want - but I can remember seeing Kirsty Williams stand at a lectern and say that children would be back in school this week and study for an extra week in July and have a two week October half term. That hasn't happened either. Scotland and Northen Ireland abandoned the idea of schools opeing until August, a far more sensible option.
The plans to allow people to travel anywhere has opened the economy, reunited communities and families and not seen an increase in cases. In fact the SW of England which I'm sure you'll agree is a tourist hot spot has the lowest cases in the UK. The benefits to peoples wellbeing of being able to visit people and places outside of their area are immense. It was a risky move but It has worked there is no denying that.
Similarly with air bridges, surely there is not a need for some to quarantine if they fly in from an area of similar or less infection than the UK. If you fly in from Florida you need to quarantine but not if you come from France - that has got to be sensible.
I agree regarding the reduction of 2m distancing and reopeining pubs. That makes me very nervous and is bowing to industry pressure. However we don't know when the the hospitality sector in Wales is opeing at all, In Scotland beer gardens are opeinig imminently. Why can't that happen here? I'd say because Drakeford can't make a decision without dithering for 3 weeks.
We don't really know what SAGE has been saying, all I'd say is that there are about 150 members and just a handful have publicly said they think Johnson is wrong.
For what it's worth my opininon is that the Leicester outbreak has come from people ignoring the lockdown rules. The timing coincides perfectly with Eid celebrations and the epicentre is an area of Leicester with a high muslim population. The Times on Sunday quoted large gathering outside takeaways as a potential source. That does not bode well for pubs opeing on Saturday.
Just to remind you that you started this my saying that Drakeford deserved praise for handling this crisis the best out of all the home nation administrations. The point I am trying to make is that there is not a single quantifiable statistic that backs that up - I'd guess looking at ALL of the stats. The rank would be:-
1, N Ireland
2, Scotland
3, England
4, Wales
I take no pride from that. | | | |
| New cases on 10:40 - Jun 30 with 3485 views | Kilkennyjack |
| New cases on 09:16 - Jun 30 by Scotia |
For what it's worth I think Boris is a weak leader too - far weaker than Drakeford, Boris is a clown to boot. But it is very difficult to argue that the path out of lockdown in England has gone badly. Local lockdowns are a way of handling this return to the new normal so lets hope the one in Leicester works.
Cases are falling, people are enjoying themselves and the economy is bouncing back. Beaches have been busy in England for nearly two months there have been large scale protests and cases are still falling. Whereas I can't take my dog for a walk down the Mumbles and cases are increasing. London has had among the largest and quickest fall in cases in the world.
Drakeford sticking ridgidly to plans does not make him a strong leader it makes him look like he can't make a decision, he seems to need to think about things for three weeks wait to see what happens elsewhere and then gets things wrong.
Feel free to look at eductaion if you want - but I can remember seeing Kirsty Williams stand at a lectern and say that children would be back in school this week and study for an extra week in July and have a two week October half term. That hasn't happened either. Scotland and Northen Ireland abandoned the idea of schools opeing until August, a far more sensible option.
The plans to allow people to travel anywhere has opened the economy, reunited communities and families and not seen an increase in cases. In fact the SW of England which I'm sure you'll agree is a tourist hot spot has the lowest cases in the UK. The benefits to peoples wellbeing of being able to visit people and places outside of their area are immense. It was a risky move but It has worked there is no denying that.
Similarly with air bridges, surely there is not a need for some to quarantine if they fly in from an area of similar or less infection than the UK. If you fly in from Florida you need to quarantine but not if you come from France - that has got to be sensible.
I agree regarding the reduction of 2m distancing and reopeining pubs. That makes me very nervous and is bowing to industry pressure. However we don't know when the the hospitality sector in Wales is opeing at all, In Scotland beer gardens are opeinig imminently. Why can't that happen here? I'd say because Drakeford can't make a decision without dithering for 3 weeks.
We don't really know what SAGE has been saying, all I'd say is that there are about 150 members and just a handful have publicly said they think Johnson is wrong.
For what it's worth my opininon is that the Leicester outbreak has come from people ignoring the lockdown rules. The timing coincides perfectly with Eid celebrations and the epicentre is an area of Leicester with a high muslim population. The Times on Sunday quoted large gathering outside takeaways as a potential source. That does not bode well for pubs opeing on Saturday.
Just to remind you that you started this my saying that Drakeford deserved praise for handling this crisis the best out of all the home nation administrations. The point I am trying to make is that there is not a single quantifiable statistic that backs that up - I'd guess looking at ALL of the stats. The rank would be:-
1, N Ireland
2, Scotland
3, England
4, Wales
I take no pride from that. |
Just on pure logic, then a longer lock down should show better case numbers.
You can only really knock Prof Drakers for unlocking too slow.
But most people in Wales support Drakers in protecting public health.
More numbers for you ....
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| New cases on 10:49 - Jun 30 with 3474 views | exhmrc1 |
| New cases on 09:16 - Jun 30 by Scotia |
For what it's worth I think Boris is a weak leader too - far weaker than Drakeford, Boris is a clown to boot. But it is very difficult to argue that the path out of lockdown in England has gone badly. Local lockdowns are a way of handling this return to the new normal so lets hope the one in Leicester works.
Cases are falling, people are enjoying themselves and the economy is bouncing back. Beaches have been busy in England for nearly two months there have been large scale protests and cases are still falling. Whereas I can't take my dog for a walk down the Mumbles and cases are increasing. London has had among the largest and quickest fall in cases in the world.
Drakeford sticking ridgidly to plans does not make him a strong leader it makes him look like he can't make a decision, he seems to need to think about things for three weeks wait to see what happens elsewhere and then gets things wrong.
Feel free to look at eductaion if you want - but I can remember seeing Kirsty Williams stand at a lectern and say that children would be back in school this week and study for an extra week in July and have a two week October half term. That hasn't happened either. Scotland and Northen Ireland abandoned the idea of schools opeing until August, a far more sensible option.
The plans to allow people to travel anywhere has opened the economy, reunited communities and families and not seen an increase in cases. In fact the SW of England which I'm sure you'll agree is a tourist hot spot has the lowest cases in the UK. The benefits to peoples wellbeing of being able to visit people and places outside of their area are immense. It was a risky move but It has worked there is no denying that.
Similarly with air bridges, surely there is not a need for some to quarantine if they fly in from an area of similar or less infection than the UK. If you fly in from Florida you need to quarantine but not if you come from France - that has got to be sensible.
I agree regarding the reduction of 2m distancing and reopeining pubs. That makes me very nervous and is bowing to industry pressure. However we don't know when the the hospitality sector in Wales is opeing at all, In Scotland beer gardens are opeinig imminently. Why can't that happen here? I'd say because Drakeford can't make a decision without dithering for 3 weeks.
We don't really know what SAGE has been saying, all I'd say is that there are about 150 members and just a handful have publicly said they think Johnson is wrong.
For what it's worth my opininon is that the Leicester outbreak has come from people ignoring the lockdown rules. The timing coincides perfectly with Eid celebrations and the epicentre is an area of Leicester with a high muslim population. The Times on Sunday quoted large gathering outside takeaways as a potential source. That does not bode well for pubs opeing on Saturday.
Just to remind you that you started this my saying that Drakeford deserved praise for handling this crisis the best out of all the home nation administrations. The point I am trying to make is that there is not a single quantifiable statistic that backs that up - I'd guess looking at ALL of the stats. The rank would be:-
1, N Ireland
2, Scotland
3, England
4, Wales
I take no pride from that. |
The single fact that does back it up is that there are a third more deaths in the UK generally than Wales but then you dont really care about that. It is the absolutely most important stat of them all. Fewer people have died in Wales. If the Welsh rate of death had been the same elsewhere there would have been 12000 few death in the UK and the BAME population AS Lisa put it is 10% higher rather than 30% higher.
Wales suffered hugely initially and would have been expected to have had more deaths. A GPs workload in Wales especially in Valley areas is far higher than in England as we have more heart disease etc. My brother in law who is a retired GP has always said this. There is more demand in Clydach or Pontardawe than Killay or Sketty.
The fact that the valley areas suffered so highly initially as Professor has rightly said just adds to the case that the improvement in Wales is far greater. Another fact you choose to ignore so you can blame the WAG and Drakeford.
Just so there can be no confusion I list the daily cases for Swansea for the whole of June
June 1 2
June 2 0
June 3 0
June 4 1
June 5 2
June 6 1
June 7 0
June 8 0
June 9 2
June 10 0
June 11 3
June 12 2
June 13 0
June 14 1
June 15 1
June 16 0
June 17 0
June 18 0
June 19 0
June 20 0
June 21 0
June 22 0
June 23 0
June 24 0
June 25 1
June 26 0
June 27 0
June 28 1
June 29 0
This is the local city so I have used these figures. As can be seen the virus has almost been defeated and the figures for many others arent much higher. i for one and very grateful to see such low amounts and I am prepared to give credit to Drakeford, Gething and Co for helping achieve this and keeping me, my family and others safe whilst all you do is try to make the figures look bad.
I realise these are Pillar 1 figures but in all honesty Pillar 2 will make very little difference to the end result and most of them will be in North Wales anyway where Alderley Park in Cheshire will be used to speed up the result time instead of the extra time sending the tests to Cardiff.
The reality is that the path in England has been slower than in Wales and the recent Welsh figures are greatly affected by 3 factories. The rest of Wales is very close to being clear of this pandemic largely due to the stay local rule. There have been times when places like Cardiff and RCT have had higher figures and this has prevented the spread from those areas here. 3 out of of 100 is 3% whereas out of 5500 is 0.05 so 3 factories in England doesnt affect the figures to the extent it does in Wales. The figures from the factories will be temporary unless there is spread elsewhere. Once all are tested they wont be recorded again | | | |
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