| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 67538 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 12:30 - Jun 8 with 2779 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 11:55 - Jun 8 by AtThePeake |
Not sure I agree there as these systems are often designed to see things that the naked eye doesn't always see or appreciate. Someone like O'Grady may have popped up if searching for a player with high numbers in less obvious metrics than goals scored - maybe stuff like aerial balls won, successful first touches, successful passes in the final third. (They'd actually be more far more nuanced and in-depth than these but these are just a few that I've looked at for work in the past).
Some of the players that Brentford have signed will not have been particularly obvious successes at Championship level based on their records at previous clubs but have been bought for very reasonable fees as a result, utilised correctly in their first team and then seen their value rise dramatically. They've made millions in profit on the likes of Maupay, Konsa, Woods and indeed Scott Hogan and would likely make huge profit on the likes of Benrahma and Jeanvier if they were to move on now.
They signed Dru Yearwood from Southend at the start of the season - a diminutive central midfielder with no career goals in over 50 games who wasn't particularly being talked about as a star at League One level. Judging on the two games I've seen him play I suspect he ranks very highly in pass completion, ground covered, tackles won etc and I wouldn't be surprised to see him eventually nail down a first-team place and leave Brentford for a lot more than the £450k they signed him for. |
Wow, it can do all that. What an earth were Swansea thinking!! |  |
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| Share sale on 12:36 - Jun 8 with 2745 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 12:24 - Jun 8 by TalkingSutty |
I fully understand that many 'well informed' fans disagree with me on the training ground issue and don't have any problem whatsoever with being what seems like a loan voice, i can't change my mind to fall in line with the majority though because it's not what I do.
Having a great training ground and being able to finance everything without it having a detrimental effect on first team recruitment would be brilliant, I'd love that. |
Loan voice? !!
Besides, yours is nothing like a lone voice! |  |
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| Share sale on 12:39 - Jun 8 with 2735 views | judd |
| Share sale on 12:30 - Jun 8 by BigDaveMyCock |
Wow, it can do all that. What an earth were Swansea thinking!! |
That they'd hang about mid-table in the Championship? |  |
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| Share sale on 12:39 - Jun 8 with 2733 views | VivaDonaldo |
| Share sale on 10:54 - Jun 8 by jonahwhereru |
Nigeria, Altman has a product to market. His chosen vehicle to market that product is Rochdale. The product covers adult leagues. He wants to sell it to the masses, I fail to see where producing players through a youth system sells the virtues of his product.
Would he not prefer to work with a sporting director to redirect acadamy expenditure into bringing players to the club that his system has highlighted. Like has been suggested about other shareholders he is in it for the short term if Rochdale did reach the promised land of the Championship he would look to sell the club and continue to hawk his product across the world.
On another note I am not the sharpest tool in the box so bear with me. At the moment the Americans have bought less than 15% of the issued shares privately. So the club is no better of financially. In isolation that shareholding is not sufficient for them to get their product adopted. They have funds to invest either in unissued or private shares. They could also invest some directly on a club priority to sweeten the shareholders and the fans, but that is probably unlikely without achieving a controlling interest.
When they do achieve that I expect the first investment will be a director of football, to oversee their chosen player acquisitions and sales. Personally I don’t believe SD’s bring a positive result for most clubs.
A penny for BBM’s thoughts!! His position at the club and in football could be diminishing. By that I mean he will have less control. If things go well people will say it’s because “robotics” do the recruitment and BBM won’t get his due credit. |
With regards to the youth production this was something I pondered on.
Altman is all about data and where better to build data on youth production and try to find some relevance to adult leagues than Dale? We've got ex youth products plyong their trade from premiership into the 7th and 8th tiers.
We'd be a relatively inexpensive way of adding youth production and equivalency to his product.
From his point of view we're a very good fit I think, hence his eagerness to build his shareholding. | | | |
| Share sale on 12:39 - Jun 8 with 2732 views | SuddenLad |
| Share sale on 12:14 - Jun 8 by judd |
I'll second that.
I fully appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into the Trust's response but would add that I thought Fitzo's endeavours are worthy of praise by the Trust and not dismissed as something that appeared on a messageboard. |
Agree. Poor effort that. Smacks of resentment. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Share sale on 12:45 - Jun 8 with 2713 views | SuddenLad |
| Share sale on 12:11 - Jun 8 by tony_roch975 |
Apologies for naming you in the training debate but as this is very much your thread I felt it was appropriate in disagreeing with TS to evidence there were 'well informed' fans who did welcome it and thanks for confirming that.
I'm confused about your feeling that the Trust is being dismissive over not being told by the Board about the private sale and Dan Altman's proposal - surely the 'private sale' is confidential to the parties involved until the new share register is published and the Altman proposal is in essence what the Board announced at the Fans Forum they were investigating (including specifically a training ground), it's just the ID of the investor which was not declared, rightly as you say, cos it was the subject of an NDA. The Trust appear to be correct that there has been no further development for some months?
Is there another agenda here which I'm missing or sorry if I've misunderstood.
ps - many of us would have been checking the new Share Register anyway - I posted in March about one of the 3 private sellers no longer owning shares for example. |
Do we know (and if so, how) that the Altman proposal was the same one that the Board were keeping quiet at the Fans Forum, or were they considering something else entirely from a different source? | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Share sale on 12:55 - Jun 8 with 2682 views | tony_roch975 |
| Share sale on 12:45 - Jun 8 by SuddenLad |
Do we know (and if so, how) that the Altman proposal was the same one that the Board were keeping quiet at the Fans Forum, or were they considering something else entirely from a different source? |
no, the Board may have been in discussions with several potential investors (thus my question to the Trust) and so we can't know on what basis but we do know the Board said at the Fans Forum that they were in discussions with potential investors; they proposed increasing share capital to attract such investors; one of the improvements they were seeking was a training ground - the point being that, as the Trust said, they weren't being 'misled' by the Board on that matter. | |
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| Share sale on 12:59 - Jun 8 with 2665 views | TalkingSutty |
| Share sale on 12:36 - Jun 8 by D_Alien |
Loan voice? !!
Besides, yours is nothing like a lone voice! |
What are you trying to suggest..that I'm a loud mouthed barsteward? 😆😆 |  | | |
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| Share sale on 13:48 - Jun 8 with 2556 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 12:59 - Jun 8 by TalkingSutty |
What are you trying to suggest..that I'm a loud mouthed barsteward? 😆😆 |
No, that there's plenty of us! | |
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| Share sale on 15:20 - Jun 8 with 2399 views | DaleyBrent |
This doesn’t read well for me. Anyone more intellectual than me wish to divulge this release in more simple terms? |  | | |
| Share sale on 15:20 - Jun 8 with 2398 views | funkkk |
Wowee, the plot thickens. |  | | |
| Share sale on 15:34 - Jun 8 with 2320 views | rochdaleriddler |
This reads to me like Andrew kelly wanted to sell his shares, but wasn’t offered enough money, or the Americans weren’t in a position to buy. Does seem odd Dunphy didn’t want them to invest but then sold his shares to them |  |
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| Share sale on 15:36 - Jun 8 with 2309 views | JPSDale |
Andrew Kelly Statement - Wow !
As far as I can tell, he has always stayed under the radar and worked hard for the kids - his statement backs this up. I spoke to Colin Garlick our former Chief Exec a few years ago and he had a lot of time and respect for him - as do the likes of Tony Ellis
Andrew has been around for years - and never really made much comment - and actively avoided any personal publicity - this is a massive thing for him to do ....
I dont fully understand all the share dealing and allocations / offers, but it seems to me that Andrew does - and he has, as a local man ( and boy) put his money where his concern is and begun buying shares to prevent other sales to the USA pair
It seems that the Current Board have passed this £6 / share thing to place a value on the club which is far higher than the USA pair want to pay. It seems like a blocking strategy - would this be right ? Can anyone explain ??
I would rather have Andrew Kelly & local people running the club and still in existence than see some Americans write off the club as a marketing budget when they get bored of it
Very Worried | | | |
| Share sale on 15:45 - Jun 8 with 2251 views | VivaDonaldo |
Wow. Big statement
Interesting that CD said no originally and the reasons why but then decided to privately sell his shares to Altman.
Interesting the shareholding the Americans wanted and their cash injection and loan arrangements not being palatable to the board.
Also exit strategy too for the Americans isn't too encouraging. Surely what is coming out of this is that our board do have the long term welfare of our club in mind and and need more support?
One things for sure AK is a staunch Rochdalian and his work and impact on the club cannot be lauded enough. | | | |
| Share sale on 15:55 - Jun 8 with 2186 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 12:39 - Jun 8 by judd |
That they'd hang about mid-table in the Championship? |
Or maybe all isn’t what it seems. It’s becoming a bit clearer that behind the hype of talk of revolutionary (now there’s a word we’ve heard before) approaches to the running of a football club is a familiar story of debt masquerading as ‘investment’. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 15:55]
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| Share sale on 16:01 - Jun 8 with 2135 views | judd |
| Share sale on 15:45 - Jun 8 by VivaDonaldo |
Wow. Big statement
Interesting that CD said no originally and the reasons why but then decided to privately sell his shares to Altman.
Interesting the shareholding the Americans wanted and their cash injection and loan arrangements not being palatable to the board.
Also exit strategy too for the Americans isn't too encouraging. Surely what is coming out of this is that our board do have the long term welfare of our club in mind and and need more support?
One things for sure AK is a staunch Rochdalian and his work and impact on the club cannot be lauded enough. |
Was CD acting unilaterally when he turned down the deal with Altman, or carrying out a board decision?
I cannot see why he would do so, unless the deal at the time was so ridiculously laughable.
If CD acted on behalf of the board, but against his own wishes, does this then help explain:
1) His departure from the board
2) His private sale of his shareholding | |
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| Share sale on 16:03 - Jun 8 with 2123 views | AussieDale |
Assuming AK's comments are an accurate representation of the facts what does it say about CD, much lauded in this thread, and in sharp contrast to views expressed about the present chairman and other current board members. | | | |
| Share sale on 16:06 - Jun 8 with 2097 views | SuddenLad |
I'm still far from convinced that no discussions have taken place about buying/offering for sale, privately held shares. It must surely have been discussed if the negotiations have been halted.
Perhaps the asking price hasn't been reached, which is far different from being 'not for sale'. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Share sale on 16:20 - Jun 8 with 2005 views | 49thseason |
| Share sale on 16:01 - Jun 8 by judd |
Was CD acting unilaterally when he turned down the deal with Altman, or carrying out a board decision?
I cannot see why he would do so, unless the deal at the time was so ridiculously laughable.
If CD acted on behalf of the board, but against his own wishes, does this then help explain:
1) His departure from the board
2) His private sale of his shareholding |
I seriously doubt that Dumphy would have acted alone to turn down the Altman offer. Such a significant event would surely have to be a collective decision. However, it is entirely possible he personally could see benefits for the club and your suggested scenario could well be accurate. It is also possible that if Altman achieves 51% that CD could return to the board as a non exec. Director or Chairman assuming the Americans wouldn't be running it day to day. Who knows what discussions took place and may still be taking place.
The only certainty is that the club is not self sustaining in the sense of regular income matching outgoings, and without gates of 5-6000 probably never will be.
Andrew Kelly has done an excellent job with the Academy, no question, but to get to the next level, it needs investment as in a covered practice pitch and a match pitch. |  | | |
| Share sale on 16:43 - Jun 8 with 1901 views | rochedale |
| Share sale on 15:34 - Jun 8 by rochdaleriddler |
This reads to me like Andrew kelly wanted to sell his shares, but wasn’t offered enough money, or the Americans weren’t in a position to buy. Does seem odd Dunphy didn’t want them to invest but then sold his shares to them |
I read it as he’d offered his shares to try and identify how much CD got for his. I only read through it once and quickly, so I could be wrong. |  |
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| Share sale on 16:46 - Jun 8 with 1884 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Share sale on 16:43 - Jun 8 by rochedale |
I read it as he’d offered his shares to try and identify how much CD got for his. I only read through it once and quickly, so I could be wrong. |
Agreed, I took it to mean that. A bit of a fishing expedition. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 16:46]
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| Share sale on 16:49 - Jun 8 with 1863 views | dalefan |
| Share sale on 16:20 - Jun 8 by 49thseason |
I seriously doubt that Dumphy would have acted alone to turn down the Altman offer. Such a significant event would surely have to be a collective decision. However, it is entirely possible he personally could see benefits for the club and your suggested scenario could well be accurate. It is also possible that if Altman achieves 51% that CD could return to the board as a non exec. Director or Chairman assuming the Americans wouldn't be running it day to day. Who knows what discussions took place and may still be taking place.
The only certainty is that the club is not self sustaining in the sense of regular income matching outgoings, and without gates of 5-6000 probably never will be.
Andrew Kelly has done an excellent job with the Academy, no question, but to get to the next level, it needs investment as in a covered practice pitch and a match pitch. |
It needs to be the right type of investment though.
To me the statement about them not agreeing to a proper exit strategy is key. The board appear to be trying to protect the club from being sold on to any Tom Dick or Dale. If the exit strategy the club is wanting to enforce protects the future of the club then that should be supported by all.
It appears Chris Dunphy wasn't that bothered about that type of protection as it appears he has sold his shares without any exit strategy being agreed or put in any legally enforceable contract | | | |
| Share sale on 16:52 - Jun 8 with 1846 views | dalefan |
| Share sale on 15:34 - Jun 8 by rochdaleriddler |
This reads to me like Andrew kelly wanted to sell his shares, but wasn’t offered enough money, or the Americans weren’t in a position to buy. Does seem odd Dunphy didn’t want them to invest but then sold his shares to them |
I don't think that is how it reads at all. He is a lifelong fan and states at the end his shares are not for sale. He has also increased his shareholding. If it was for profit then he wouldn't make such a big point of his shares not being for sale | | | |
| Share sale on 16:53 - Jun 8 with 1841 views | TomRAFC |
It's unusual to see a director use the official site to voice his personal opinion but it certainly clears a lot up.
They met Altman and Marcelli, liked them, but didn't accept their valuation of the shares and didn't trust their long term plans. All very reasonable. He'd have done himself a favour to focus on that.
Mr Kelly is a long term servant of the club but comments about share grabbing and no one having done more than him including CD make him sound more like a petulant bragging teenager rather than a level headed adult. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 16:57]
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