| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT 22:17 - Aug 13 with 13945 views | TheResurrection |
Dr Winston posted this in another thread...
"""We pissed away gobsmacking amounts of money by moving away from a system that worked. Huw Jenkins presided over that act of stupidity when all he had to do was keep doing what worked. Instead he decided to tear all that up when he promoted his snitch to the managers job and ape what every other club was doing."""
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You'll get too many agreeing with this most simplistic of explanations.
And it's not fair or particularly accurate.
You say we moved away from a system that worked.
But for how long long in the EPL did we have that system?
* We were promoted in May 2011
* From August 2013 to January 2014 we struggle
* There were well documented upsets in the ranks
* We had a manager and his agent who attempted to manipulate our transfer policy to a model that would see them make on every deal
* THIS WAS A CLEAR STEP AWAY FROM WHAT COULD BE ARGUED WORKED FOR US UNTIL THIS POINT
* Garry Monk, who I know you blame for moving us away from our recruiting system stepped up in February 2014
* Monk steered us to safety
* In 2014/2015 Monk took us to our highest finish by GOING BACK TO THE MODEL THAT GOT US TO THE EPL IN THE FIRST PLACE - NOT THE PLAYING STYLE - BUT THE RECRUITMENT MODEL
Now had Leon, instead of Monk, been able and available to take the reigns at that time we would no doubt have seen a completely different playing style and type of player coming in.
But he wasn't available and Monk came in and in the eyes of the footballing world, the EPL finish we had, and obviously from the Board of Directors perspective, did a good job.
OK, we didn't like the style of play and we can all too easily say that's where it all went wrong, but it's such a weak argument in so many aspects it deserves being called out as rubbish.
* In the EPL we had one season under Rodgers who recruited as we did post Monk ie the transfer committee
+ we then had one and a half seasons with Laudrup who changed it to his way
+ we then had the rest going back with the transfer committee
If we moved away from anything it was to accommodate Laudrup's agent and that only brought success for ONE TRANSFER WINDOW..... ONE!!!
it really is now time for people to start evaluating our recent history and not just jump on bandwagons or choose the sound bites that match their own narratives just to confirm their own bias.
It's time to see things as they really were and now are. The blame game is doing us no favours. This is a great chance to rebuild and start again.
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:15 - Aug 14 with 1773 views | costalotta |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:05 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
So many weak points I don't know where to start.
This thread deserved one of its own as the other was once again about to be hijacked with posters personal vendettas
Are you crediting Jenkins with. January 2017?? Think about that statement for a while and come back to me. |
Perhaps you can help,us out.
On the one hand you say managers make football clubs, then you are indicating that Jenkins was responsible for January 2017?
Clearly it’s the chairman who sets the environment and parameters for a manager to work in right?
If a chairman over steps his make its pretty much the same result at every club wher this has happened. If, on the other hand a manager is provided with the right environment with clear parameters to work in, with honesty, trust and a working relationship where they’re on the same page then there’s a pretty good chance of success, relative success that is. |  | | |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:18 - Aug 14 with 1759 views | Kerouac |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:10 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
There's no speaking to anyone when they've got a different point of view to the usual trolls on here, or the abuse they give before offering anything like a return on football matters, to which I discuss only.
No one man has ever been responsible for our successes or our failures.
You choose to edit history and only credit the mistakes to Jenkins and the successes to the relevant managers at the time.
If you genuinely can't see how flawed and facking bonkers that is, you're not ever going to be wiling to see past your red mist and own inadequacies. |
I think it's all those at the club involved in making decisions from sacking Laudrup until our relegation who want to avoid "owning their inadequacies".
Big calls were made, if you were involved in making the decisions or supporting them (providing the necessary unquestioning environment) you should be man enough to take responsibility for them.
That's why fans want resignations/sackings and can't stand the sort of excuse laden, justifying the unjustifiable, shite that you post.
Your point of view is totally discredited, reflect on that. |  |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:19 - Aug 14 with 1759 views | TheResurrection |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:15 - Aug 14 by costalotta |
Perhaps you can help,us out.
On the one hand you say managers make football clubs, then you are indicating that Jenkins was responsible for January 2017?
Clearly it’s the chairman who sets the environment and parameters for a manager to work in right?
If a chairman over steps his make its pretty much the same result at every club wher this has happened. If, on the other hand a manager is provided with the right environment with clear parameters to work in, with honesty, trust and a working relationship where they’re on the same page then there’s a pretty good chance of success, relative success that is. |
And posters making this remark after our first relegation in 20 years.
Wow, we genuinely have the worst and most fickle fans ever. | |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:31 - Aug 14 with 1728 views | thornabyswan |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:19 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
And posters making this remark after our first relegation in 20 years.
Wow, we genuinely have the worst and most fickle fans ever. |
I don't think it's to much to expect some trust and honesty from a chairman especially a local man who grew up standing on the North Bank.
Can't really complain about his performance as a whole 3 promotions and 7 seasons in the Premiership is good going.
But his legacy will be forever tarnished I have a feeling if he could turn back the clock he would. |  |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:41 - Aug 14 with 1704 views | Badlands |
Ah the return of St Garry. |  |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:45 - Aug 14 with 1691 views | thornabyswan |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:41 - Aug 14 by Badlands |
Ah the return of St Garry. |
St Garry ? | |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:46 - Aug 14 with 1688 views | BobbyBacala |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 07:45 - Aug 14 by PawelAbbott |
THe style that people talk about isn’t the one of a commitee or single person responsible, it is signing expensive, known players against signing players with something to prove.
Once we started down the route of signing bigger name players on a free but with large wages e.g A Ayew and Gomis that it all started going horribly wrong.
We then went through a period of paying large sums for players which we had never done before.
And, arguably, not one of them has worked out.
There was a statement from the club this summer that they made mistakes in the past by letting non-footballing people have too large a day in transfers. As far as I can see the only non-football person on the transfer committee was Jenkins. [Post edited 14 Aug 2018 7:53]
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Agree with that and would add that the 'bigger name' players didn't really suit the style of football we wanted to play. While Gomis' offsides became a running joke, it was because he was always looking for the through ball, something he would never get in our style at the time. Andre Ayew was a really effective player for us but no-one really had a clue where he was best played. Borja was another.
Whilst we've had a turnover of managers and I accept that you have to evolve, the fact that we've signed so many players who've failed to fit into a recognisable system is Jenkins' biggest failing over the past two/three years. The Director of Football is meant to ensure continuity in player recruitment and we haven't had that until Potter (though it's very early days). | | | |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 10:01 - Aug 14 with 1668 views | costalotta |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:19 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
And posters making this remark after our first relegation in 20 years.
Wow, we genuinely have the worst and most fickle fans ever. |
Failing to address the post again. Sigh!
What remark? All football fans have at least some fickleness! I’d love to know what in particular in that post makes me fickle? I’d say your fickle given yiour use of reverse gears since your ‘chat’ with Dineen a few years ago.
This is what you do, what you resort to. Are you really that clever? Quite obviously your football knowledge is questionable given your spectacular predictions over the last few years. | | | |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 10:29 - Aug 14 with 1618 views | costalotta |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:10 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
There's no speaking to anyone when they've got a different point of view to the usual trolls on here, or the abuse they give before offering anything like a return on football matters, to which I discuss only.
No one man has ever been responsible for our successes or our failures.
You choose to edit history and only credit the mistakes to Jenkins and the successes to the relevant managers at the time.
If you genuinely can't see how flawed and facking bonkers that is, you're not ever going to be wiling to see past your red mist and own inadequacies. |
Didn’t see this post...
“There's no speaking to anyone when they've got a different point of view to the usual trolls on here, or the abuse they give before offering anything like a return on football matters, to which I discuss only. “
Debateable. Plenty on here who discuss football and our club openly, without malice and from different perspectives without name calling, abuse, threats etc. I’d have to massively disagree with you.
“No one man has ever been responsible for our successes or our failures. “.
Finally, now we’re getting there. It takes a team to be successful but your only going to be as good as your weakest link. It takes the club to successful but only one to mess it up. Get it?
“You choose to edit history and only credit the mistakes to Jenkins and the successes to the relevant managers at the time. “.
God knows where your getting that from. I’ve not edited history. History is...well, it’s history it’s there for all to see. Jenkins deserves credit for appointing RM and then letting him get on with the job. Same for Sousa, Bren. Clap clap. He also also deserves the shite he gets for his mistakes, which have now been going on for nigh on 4 years. Perhaps he’s just on a bad run eh?
“If you genuinely can't see how flawed and facking bonkers that is, you're not ever going to be wiling to see past your red mist and own inadequacies.”
Here we go again, this exactly this. Mmm. What are you talking about? I have no red mist fella, stopped that a very long time ago, it’s counter productive. Inadequacies hahahahaha. Ok! | | | |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 11:37 - Aug 14 with 1588 views | JackSomething |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:05 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
So many weak points I don't know where to start.
This thread deserved one of its own as the other was once again about to be hijacked with posters personal vendettas
Are you crediting Jenkins with. January 2017?? Think about that statement for a while and come back to me. |
So you didn't even try then? Just like you ignored Kerouac pointing out that Monk didn't actually improve on Laudrup's first season as Laudrup, you know, won a trophy?
Well you'd be one to know about personal vendettas/agendas.
Where in my post did I mention Jenkins? Think about that for a while, do some crayon drawings and come back to me. |  |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 11:45 - Aug 14 with 1568 views | JackSomething |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:55 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
And let me remind everyone about two very important aspects when it comes to the manager that made us who we are, or at least, were.
Roberto Martinez
1. How lucky is any club to pick out someone like that who could literally revolutionise a football club from top to bottom
2. The Doctor was dead against him coming. To the point he'd make frenzied arguments against.
Oh to be able to read some of those threads again... |
So because Jobs was (allegedly) wrong about Martinez, he can no longer comment on this subject? Given your posts over the years, I'd be wary of suggesting being wrong once invalidates your opinion on anything.
Talking about some of those threads, it'd be great to find your annual summer threads slamming Jenkins and the board every year, despite us being on a steady upward trajectory the whole time. I remember defending Jenkins myself in those threads, because at the time I thought he was doing a great job, which I still believe was mainly true.
He then started doing a far worse job in my opinion, not least actively whoring the club out to any bidder and I began criticising him. Whereas you hammered him for years while he seemed to be doing a good job and then suddenly reversed track when the majority turned on him. You still haven't explained why adequately. Enjoying some free season tickets maybe or you just like swimming against the tide? | |
| You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help. |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 16:08 - Aug 14 with 1465 views | Chief |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:00 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
Even with the examples you gave you clearly highlighted how inaccurate a point it is you're trying to make.
Managers make football teams, some you get beautifully right, some you don't.
But hey, we should've got every appointment right. Shame on Jenkins 😂😂😂 |
How does that highlight how inaccurate my point is? Its pretty obvious that at a certain point we veered away from using contacts that our managers had.
I didn't mention how good or how bad any managerial appointments had been. Although on the whole, the board got plenty right, with a few dodgy exceptions. |  |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 16:10 - Aug 14 with 1462 views | TheResurrection |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 16:08 - Aug 14 by Chief |
How does that highlight how inaccurate my point is? Its pretty obvious that at a certain point we veered away from using contacts that our managers had.
I didn't mention how good or how bad any managerial appointments had been. Although on the whole, the board got plenty right, with a few dodgy exceptions. |
Or was that the reason we went down because you can't have your cake and eat it here.
Clements contacts helped in our demise
Tammy
Sanches
Do your research | |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:03 - Aug 14 with 1422 views | Phil_S |
Sorry to be the pedantic one
But the title makes no sense
If we have gone back to something then we must have moved away from it in the first place...? |  | | |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:10 - Aug 14 with 1410 views | omarjack |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:03 - Aug 14 by Phil_S |
Sorry to be the pedantic one
But the title makes no sense
If we have gone back to something then we must have moved away from it in the first place...? |
The most useless thread that was ever posted on here. And trust me when I tell you, I've seen countless of those.
The Res is a real mug..what the f*ck is he on? |  |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:43 - Aug 14 with 1371 views | Chief |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 16:10 - Aug 14 by TheResurrection |
Or was that the reason we went down because you can't have your cake and eat it here.
Clements contacts helped in our demise
Tammy
Sanches
Do your research |
If you'd done your research you may have found out that Brian Flynn was actually the driving force behind Tammy coming. So yea, maybe Clem pulled strings to get Sanches, but that's just 1 loan signing. The vast majority of players signed under Clem's tenure were linked all strongly well before he took over. Funny that he and his team would single out exactly the same players as we'd been linked previously isnt it? Miraculous actually. | |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:48 - Aug 14 with 1366 views | swan65split |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:03 - Aug 14 by Phil_S |
Sorry to be the pedantic one
But the title makes no sense
If we have gone back to something then we must have moved away from it in the first place...? |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:50 - Aug 14 with 1361 views | swan65split |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:10 - Aug 14 by omarjack |
The most useless thread that was ever posted on here. And trust me when I tell you, I've seen countless of those.
The Res is a real mug..what the f*ck is he on? |
Planet ZOG ......along with..... | | | |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 18:10 - Aug 14 with 1333 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 17:03 - Aug 14 by Phil_S |
Sorry to be the pedantic one
But the title makes no sense
If we have gone back to something then we must have moved away from it in the first place...? |
I've already asked "Confused Gwas" (our footballing mystic and Philosopher) the same question.
"Confused Gwas" no answer! [Post edited 14 Aug 2018 18:11]
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| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 20:25 - Aug 14 with 1280 views | LeonWasGod |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 23:48 - Aug 13 by Darran |
Nut Boy will be all over this when he gets back from Mars tomorrow,he couldn’t get a direct flight so he’s having a stopover on the Moon. |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 21:32 - Aug 14 with 1229 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 20:42 - Aug 14 by Phil_S |
Perhaps there isn't an answer  |
Maybe that's the clue, he writes in riddles. Either that or what he writes he can't understand, either. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 21:38 - Aug 14 with 1211 views | magicdaps10 |
Just read the op......wtf!!!
Thought he was a tw@t but it goes beyond that, he is raving.
Dont understand his agenda with his other argumentative cockwhombles. |  |
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| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 06:25 - Aug 15 with 1106 views | PawelAbbott |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 09:46 - Aug 14 by BobbyBacala |
Agree with that and would add that the 'bigger name' players didn't really suit the style of football we wanted to play. While Gomis' offsides became a running joke, it was because he was always looking for the through ball, something he would never get in our style at the time. Andre Ayew was a really effective player for us but no-one really had a clue where he was best played. Borja was another.
Whilst we've had a turnover of managers and I accept that you have to evolve, the fact that we've signed so many players who've failed to fit into a recognisable system is Jenkins' biggest failing over the past two/three years. The Director of Football is meant to ensure continuity in player recruitment and we haven't had that until Potter (though it's very early days). |
Potter has only been there a few weeks so it is hard to tell so far.
It has appeared that players have been signed with the intention of bringing in players that fit a style this summer whereas in recent seasons it was more about brining in anyone we thought we could get a deal with. The going back for ex-players smacked of desperation for anyone to join at that time. It was very similar under Sousa where they had clearly run out of ideas. | | | |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 08:19 - Aug 15 with 1068 views | waynekerr55 |
| WE DIDN'T MOVE AWAY FROM WHAT WORKED FOR US, WE WENT BACK TO IT on 18:10 - Aug 14 by Brynmill_Jack |
I've already asked "Confused Gwas" (our footballing mystic and Philosopher) the same question.
"Confused Gwas" no answer! [Post edited 14 Aug 2018 18:11]
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Confused Gwas?
I thought Moonie was banned! |  |
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