| No subject 18:48 - Jan 28 with 10532 views | Yossarian |
Welsh Labour to give the vote to 16 year olds.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42848685
As a Labour voter, I think this smacks of opportunism. I understand this generation are more apathetic than ever but are young people are more likely to vote for parties of the Left?
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| "Yossarian- the very sight of the name made him shudder.There were so many esses in it. It just had to be subversive" (Catch 22) |
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| No subject on 11:01 - Jan 29 with 2005 views | PozuelosSideys |
| No subject on 10:55 - Jan 29 by Batterseajack |
I hear you Lo as there has to be a limit to how young a person can be, but on the flip side, the younger generation have been let down politically for god knows how long because there's no votes in it for them. How else to tackle this than to give them a vote? It would also engage them in politics at a good age which could tackle the voting and political apathy that we have in this country.
I would also say they have more understanding of the world around them and a vested interest than many aging people with deteriorating minds. |
Most at that age still live at home with their parents and live off the bank of mum and dad, rightly or wrongly, as did most of us.
At that age i was very much of the views that all Tories were indeed, "scum", and that all Saes were of a similar ilk. Its not until you get out into the real world, get a job, pay your taxes and realise what is REALLY going on that you start to make relatively informed decisions imo.
18 is young enough. If it were up to me (and it isnt), itd be 21. With youth comes naivety. Paint them a pretty picture and most arent yet cyncial (experienced?) enough to question the motives. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| No subject on 11:24 - Jan 29 with 1986 views | Private_Partz |
| No subject on 00:12 - Jan 29 by PozuelosSideys |
1.) What has been costed?
2.) Who are the poor boys of Europe? Wales? The UK? Suggest you go look at the rest of Europe. Particularly the South, Central and East.
3.) Investment in Public Services are primarily paid for by tax dollars from the private sector.
4.) Austerity has failed? The deficit is coming down and most key metrics suggest the trends are moving the right direction. If "time for change" is borrowing and spending, then you are not making any sense.
5.)The Labour party were at the wheel in 2008. They also signed off the bailing out of the banks. They also over borrowed, over spent and didnt for one second think about sticking cash in the savings account. You may also want to take a look at the UK debt and deficit when Labour took charge, and what they were when Labour lost power. Scary stuff |
1. The Labour Manifesto. Separate booklet accompanying it. Frightened the shite out of the Tories as theirs lacked any substance. The major weakening of the Maybot at the election proved that.
2. The UK has the lowest to per capita output in the western world. Despite high employment wages are falling behind inflation. We are getting poorer despite the mega rich making the figures look better than they are. We are all becoming car washers and fast food delivery drivers.
3. The Public Sector provides the environment for The Private Sector to thrive. Both need support. Can't ignore either for a successful economy.
4. See 2 above. Also look around you. Health and Education in a right mess. Social Care a shambles. Falling standards in housing. Beggars increasing on the street. Roads verges and drainage in a hell of a state etc etc.
5. That was New Labour. This is a different kettle of fish. Even the 2008 gang did better than this lot before the bankers screrwed up.
6. You read the Daily Mail / Jackboot too much;-) |  |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| No subject on 11:24 - Jan 29 with 1986 views | acejack3065 |
Like the world class education that was afforded to the generation our ruling class stems from but not mine? Lets not forget the well funded NHS, proper pensions and affordable housing.
But no, I have over 20K of student debt, p*ss poor pension and extortionate rents but apparently I'm from the entitled generation  |  | | |
| No subject on 11:30 - Jan 29 with 1975 views | PozuelosSideys |
| No subject on 11:24 - Jan 29 by acejack3065 |
Like the world class education that was afforded to the generation our ruling class stems from but not mine? Lets not forget the well funded NHS, proper pensions and affordable housing.
But no, I have over 20K of student debt, p*ss poor pension and extortionate rents but apparently I'm from the entitled generation |
Same here. Almost word for word tbh. I suspect we are about a similar age. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| No subject on 11:33 - Jan 29 with 1972 views | PozuelosSideys |
| No subject on 11:24 - Jan 29 by Private_Partz |
1. The Labour Manifesto. Separate booklet accompanying it. Frightened the shite out of the Tories as theirs lacked any substance. The major weakening of the Maybot at the election proved that.
2. The UK has the lowest to per capita output in the western world. Despite high employment wages are falling behind inflation. We are getting poorer despite the mega rich making the figures look better than they are. We are all becoming car washers and fast food delivery drivers.
3. The Public Sector provides the environment for The Private Sector to thrive. Both need support. Can't ignore either for a successful economy.
4. See 2 above. Also look around you. Health and Education in a right mess. Social Care a shambles. Falling standards in housing. Beggars increasing on the street. Roads verges and drainage in a hell of a state etc etc.
5. That was New Labour. This is a different kettle of fish. Even the 2008 gang did better than this lot before the bankers screrwed up.
6. You read the Daily Mail / Jackboot too much;-) |
You.Are.Deluded.
Anyway, im sure you are a top bloke. Although i wouldnt wipe my arse with the Mail, so take that bit back  | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| No subject on 11:35 - Jan 29 with 1968 views | Lohengrin |
| No subject on 11:29 - Jan 29 by Private_Partz |
Well said. You have my sympathy. We have been dry effed for so long these people think things can not improve beyond continual austerity for the poor whilst the rich carry on almost unscathed.
Cue attacks on my views for being a jealous Leftie [Post edited 29 Jan 2018 18:16]
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No attack from me just curiosity as to why, despite an Everest of evidence to the contrary, you have come to the conclusion that Marx has the answers you seek?
PS: It's 'cue'.  [Post edited 29 Jan 2018 11:38]
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| No subject on 11:44 - Jan 29 with 1960 views | acejack3065 |
Tbh if you can't make an argument that applies to 16 and 17 year olds only, then you've got no argument.
I'd argue that 17 is about the right age as you can be working and paying tax, driving and paying tax on your car and the fuel you put in it. In a fair and democratic society you should have a say on how that tax is spent and how the rules that govern you are decided.
The argument that this will only benefit Labour is cr@p anyway. The voting age was lowered to 18 in 1969 and Heath won the next election in 1970. Then again he did favor the younger voter, allegedly. | | | |
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| No subject on 11:49 - Jan 29 with 1957 views | Lohengrin |
| No subject on 11:44 - Jan 29 by acejack3065 |
Tbh if you can't make an argument that applies to 16 and 17 year olds only, then you've got no argument.
I'd argue that 17 is about the right age as you can be working and paying tax, driving and paying tax on your car and the fuel you put in it. In a fair and democratic society you should have a say on how that tax is spent and how the rules that govern you are decided.
The argument that this will only benefit Labour is cr@p anyway. The voting age was lowered to 18 in 1969 and Heath won the next election in 1970. Then again he did favor the younger voter, allegedly. |
Seventeen is still an age where the law, and by extension and inference society, deem insufficiently mature to put a bet on the Grand National. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| No subject on 11:54 - Jan 29 with 1949 views | PozuelosSideys |
| No subject on 11:47 - Jan 29 by Private_Partz |
Of course it could all go tits up which if it did it would pave the way for a more powerful central Party. Bring it on. It will give voters far more choice and therfore some control.
It should not be Private v Public Sector. All governments should make sure they are working in tandem.
Take travel for instance. A clear demarcation for me. Essential travel should be Pubic Sector whilst holiday and luxury travel can go Private. Just an example. It would make a good thread comparing the two across all areas.
In the meantime give Corbyn a chance. It may only last 4 years of so. Unlike Brexit which could wreck us for generations. I disagree with Corbyn's stance on that btw.
Apologies about the Daily Mail bit. You are obviously far too intelligent ;-) [Post edited 29 Jan 2018 11:51]
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The UK is far too developed a country and economy for a Corbynesque style Government. It would be like sitting in a Aston Martin, but instead of turning the ignition key, youd have to crack the whip to get the horses out front moving instead. The damage that bunch would cause truely (and i mean this) scares me. Blairs government was probably the closest thing weve had to the middle ground imo.
Couldnt agree more about the working in tandem bit. I vote Tory because of the financial side. Im absolutely allergic to debt and absolutely deplore the amount of 'dead' money the country wastes every year on interests payments to service the debt. That money could be spent on far better things. At the same time, i believe the tax system needs overhauling. Companies who trade here should be paying a respectable amount. I also despise the way the Tories sell off anything that isnt nailed down. They also invest in some rediculous things and do plenty of other stuff i cant fathom.
Whats that about travel? I dont understand.. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| No subject on 17:38 - Jan 29 with 1911 views | Highjack |
| No subject on 20:19 - Jan 28 by oh_tommy_tommy |
18 is young enough
However my hope for a better country is lifted by the young voting more in the last election |
They were saying on the radio this morning that there's been some study that suggests youth turnout was actually down in the last election, and that the corbyn youth earthquake could barely even be described as a tremor.
Not sure how accurate this study was, I take most of them with a pinch of salt tbh. |  |
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| No subject on 18:19 - Jan 29 with 1897 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
The country’s facked and it’s all Corbyn’s Fault
There is no hope |  |
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| No subject on 18:53 - Jan 29 with 1882 views | Private_Partz |
| No subject on 11:54 - Jan 29 by PozuelosSideys |
The UK is far too developed a country and economy for a Corbynesque style Government. It would be like sitting in a Aston Martin, but instead of turning the ignition key, youd have to crack the whip to get the horses out front moving instead. The damage that bunch would cause truely (and i mean this) scares me. Blairs government was probably the closest thing weve had to the middle ground imo.
Couldnt agree more about the working in tandem bit. I vote Tory because of the financial side. Im absolutely allergic to debt and absolutely deplore the amount of 'dead' money the country wastes every year on interests payments to service the debt. That money could be spent on far better things. At the same time, i believe the tax system needs overhauling. Companies who trade here should be paying a respectable amount. I also despise the way the Tories sell off anything that isnt nailed down. They also invest in some rediculous things and do plenty of other stuff i cant fathom.
Whats that about travel? I dont understand.. |
First paragraph: Not much to go on there. You sound a bit like the Maybot.:-)
Second Paragraph: Agree with most of that but we cannot stand still as far as infrastructure investment is concerned. We cannot create wealth and a booming economy without it.
Last bit:. I was just trying to outline how I think the Private and Public Sectors could work in an area such as transport. Obviously I did not do a good job :-)
Don't be scared. It will only last 4 years or so if it goes wrong. If all that is achieved is a properly funded Health Service plus the renationalization of the Utilities and rail travel I will be reasonably happy. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| No subject on 19:19 - Jan 29 with 1868 views | PozuelosSideys |
| No subject on 18:53 - Jan 29 by Private_Partz |
First paragraph: Not much to go on there. You sound a bit like the Maybot.:-)
Second Paragraph: Agree with most of that but we cannot stand still as far as infrastructure investment is concerned. We cannot create wealth and a booming economy without it.
Last bit:. I was just trying to outline how I think the Private and Public Sectors could work in an area such as transport. Obviously I did not do a good job :-)
Don't be scared. It will only last 4 years or so if it goes wrong. If all that is achieved is a properly funded Health Service plus the renationalization of the Utilities and rail travel I will be reasonably happy. |
First paragraph is because i work in the City. Corbyn and chums are a running joke and have zero credibility there.
Define infrastructure. How do you understand it though? Look at the NHS. We could throw every single thing we have at it, and it would still chew it all up. It needs to be managed better. As i understand it, the UK is fully entitled to recharge the country of non UK citizens the cost of their use of the NHS while they are here, yet we choose not to. Why? Try going to mainland europe or Americas and for instance and getting free care there without insurance. I also wouldnt trust a government if any ilk to run anything properly tbh. But at the same time, the whole concept of markets doesnt seem to be working for average Joe. I have no idea what the solution is, but leftist Corbynomics isnt it.
You dont get it. 4 years? Do you know how big a debt there would be after Corbyn has been in charge? Do you know how much bigger interest payments would be on that? Do you know how much it would cost to bring stuff such as PFI back in house? Do you know how much it would cost to renationalise utilities? Do you know how much the litigation costs would be to even attempt this? Do you know how much impact an aggressive socialist government in the UK would have on the private sector, the views of those outside of the UK and the way theyd run in the opposite direction with their investment funds? People invest here as we have the framwork for it and its easy to do business (rightly, or wrong in many case - just look at russians buying up all property to launder cash). Corbyn slashes and burns all that. Its more than just 4 years. It would be signing away your great grand kids lives. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| No subject on 19:32 - Jan 29 with 1856 views | perchrockjack |
Yet, many previous generations have seen 16-18 yr old sent into a real war .
How would our delicate easily offended youth manage the reality of war |  |
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| No subject on 19:38 - Jan 29 with 1852 views | perchrockjack |
Lowering the age to 16 would benefit Labour.
I mean
A three year free pissup at uni. No debt, free housing ,and cannabis legalised
I d fookn vote for it myself
Labour are targetting the kids ruthlessly without shame . Mcdonnells murdering remarks regarding Grenfell unchallenged by a supine,putrid Conservative government
This Tory lot are truly disgusting and allowing our kids to be conned without challenge
I'm not sure they are that bothered with the Kids | |
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| No subject on 20:43 - Jan 29 with 1820 views | felixstowe_jack |
The United Nations Convention on the rights of children defines anyone under 18 as Children. Labour support this convention. The UK government considers this same age group is so vulnerable and so far from adulthood that it needs the constant protection of officialdom.
Children cannot buy,
Alcohol
Tobacco
Watch an Adult film
Place a bet
Drive until they are 17
Buy fireworks
Get a tattoo
Get married without Parental consent
Join the military without Parental consent and then only in a not combat roles
Not allowed to pay Council Tax
Not allowed to stand for public office
If they are not considered mature enough to do all of the above how are they mature enough to vote. | |
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| No subject on 11:09 - Feb 1 with 1700 views | felixstowe_jack |
I see the Welsh Government are getting confused about 16/17 year olds. They want to ban them from getting some piercings. Apparently they are not mature enough to decide they want to get these piercings but are mature enough to vote Labour. | |
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