| More good news, bigots: 17:49 - Feb 28 with 8601 views | Shaky |
News out of Germany today suggests BMW have decided to build the new electric Mini on the continent rather than Cowley due to Brexit concerns.
We don't want those stinking foreign electric cars here anyway, give us good old reliable 19th century internal combustion technology any day, right lads?
Engeeerrrrrrland Engeeerrrrrrland Engeeerrrrrrland, etc, etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/02/27/bmw-weighs-moving-production-new- |  |
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| More good news, bigots: on 00:24 - Mar 1 with 1402 views | BigPhilG |
| More good news, bigots: on 23:41 - Feb 28 by SilverSurfer |
Why is this such a surprise?
It was announced over a year ago that the new land rover is being built in Slovakia.
We just have to accept that we no longer have a British car industry |
Because of the EU |  | | |
| More good news, bigots: on 08:49 - Mar 1 with 1307 views | SilverSurfer |
| More good news, bigots: on 00:24 - Mar 1 by BigPhilG |
Because of the EU |
Its more to do with successive British governments allowing foreign companies to buy the UKs marquee brands without realising what it would mean for the future |  | | |
| More good news, bigots: on 09:19 - Mar 1 with 1280 views | Shaky |
| More good news, bigots: on 18:10 - Feb 28 by Flashberryjack |
BIGOT
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions. |
I have seen that before, Flash.
What it suggests is that the word intolerance can not exist except as a synonym for hypocrte. Is that the case? No.
Don't take this the wrong way, but from what I have seen, you seem to be an otherwise lucid and thoughtful poster. You're better that peddling this kind of feeble-minded drivel. | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:25 - Mar 1 with 1271 views | Shaky |
| More good news, bigots: on 18:16 - Feb 28 by Witneyjack |
They've been making these noises for a little while. Funnily enough it coincides with them trying to bring in new working terms and conditions. Cue the Unions giving in and the Government offering some financial incentives and it will be produced in Cowley. |
Quality.
The notion that you are privy to the inner thinking inside the BMW boardroom in Bavaria is the very essence of what made Brexit what it is today! | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:27 - Mar 1 with 1270 views | blueytheblue |
| More good news, bigots: on 08:49 - Mar 1 by SilverSurfer |
Its more to do with successive British governments allowing foreign companies to buy the UKs marquee brands without realising what it would mean for the future |
Or having foreign companies bringing higher standards of quality to products.
British car industry in the 1970s was by and large sh*t quality work. |  |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:41 - Mar 1 with 1251 views | perchrockjack |
Never forget the Austin Allegro.
I drove one in Plod for a few months ,then blew the big ends to pieces.
Crick of shite
As were Norton Commandos .
BMW are plod choice for a reason
Unions killed our car industry stone dead ,as did crap management | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:43 - Mar 1 with 1248 views | Lohengrin |
| More good news, bigots: on 09:19 - Mar 1 by Shaky |
I have seen that before, Flash.
What it suggests is that the word intolerance can not exist except as a synonym for hypocrte. Is that the case? No.
Don't take this the wrong way, but from what I have seen, you seem to be an otherwise lucid and thoughtful poster. You're better that peddling this kind of feeble-minded drivel. |
All he's given you there is what appears to be a modern dictionary definition, he's offered no further comment.
Of more interest is what you appear to be doing, this Brexit voter = backward bigot schtick. You know full well, or at least you ought to, that those areas that voted most heavily for Leave are precisely those areas that have suffered the most precipitous industrial and manufacturing decline. To follow your line of thought is like reading Katie Hopkins through a left-distorting lens, you may recoil from it but you both do exactly the same thing, blame the victim for the crime. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:45 - Mar 1 with 1241 views | blueytheblue |
Agree on the unions part, perchie.
Dad used to work at the old Hoover plant ( Shirley Bassey was working there at the time... ). He used to be a shop steward, grew disillusioned with things. Union wanted to go on strike because they wanted the company to employ more people - the base plates at the time had 4 screws, one on each corner. Union wanted company to employ one person to do each screw... dad pointed out that was just being silly. He then got beaten up by a number of cuddly union people.
He quit, set up repairing vacuum cleaners and washing machines. Did ok for himself. A few years later one of those union bullies came in drunk wanting my dad to give him a job! When turned down he got a tad aggressive - I took great satisfaction dropping him. | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:50 - Mar 1 with 1232 views | perchrockjack |
Ive been in two unions
Ive been in shite a few times and they were useless.
Far from representing their members ,most had political agenda.
Plenty of conservative union members too
I've seen both Unions and Management at close quarters and our demise is a combination of both screwing up
This is evident in our class war, the way we take pride in being called "ordinary" or "working class " .ive nasty arthritis in my wrists but it d be worth it to punch the lights out if anyone calling me either of those turgid terms | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:52 - Mar 1 with 1229 views | monmouth |
| More good news, bigots: on 09:27 - Mar 1 by blueytheblue |
Or having foreign companies bringing higher standards of quality to products.
British car industry in the 1970s was by and large sh*t quality work. |
Indeed, there is a reason why no one in their right mind bought a 'British' car in their period of demise. Same is now happening in the us with GM. Honda is also losing its shine, as the reputation for quality is dwindling, and Mercedes is just a shell of its former self relying on its badge to sell cars.
Surfer has a very valid point though. If you give away ownership to foreign firms and rely on that for your entire economy, they can bend you over a barrel when it comes to the crunch and you need them more than they need you, like when they find anywhere on earth with reliable production and cheaper labour costs or less labour rights. We are on a race to the bottom and the steering wheel is not in our hands, whatever bullshit bluster May and Johnno serve up.
ps this isn't a political comment. Governments of all colour have basically horsed it up since the late sixties in my view, but with increasing ineptitude and incompetence. I hate them all. |  |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:55 - Mar 1 with 1227 views | Shaky |
| More good news, bigots: on 09:43 - Mar 1 by Lohengrin |
All he's given you there is what appears to be a modern dictionary definition, he's offered no further comment.
Of more interest is what you appear to be doing, this Brexit voter = backward bigot schtick. You know full well, or at least you ought to, that those areas that voted most heavily for Leave are precisely those areas that have suffered the most precipitous industrial and manufacturing decline. To follow your line of thought is like reading Katie Hopkins through a left-distorting lens, you may recoil from it but you both do exactly the same thing, blame the victim for the crime. |
Well there's no doubt that there is a lot of bigotry about.
Aside from that, I am not arguing that Brexiters are as much backwards as uninformed. Further no doubt widespread severe economic hardship has resulted in genuine desperation, while the official line of scapegoating foreigners for the breaking state of social services and Healthcare actually atrtibutable fierce austerity cuts, has put us in the situation we face today.
The problem is not globalisation through, quite the contrary since it has led to unprecedented wealth creation. Instead it is the policies of successive governents that have failed to redistribute it anywhere near adequately. | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 09:59 - Mar 1 with 1221 views | perchrockjack |
Who redistributes and to whom
What criteria
Sadly, redistribution of wealth is mainly a phrase to moisten the juices | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 10:02 - Mar 1 with 1213 views | blueytheblue |
| More good news, bigots: on 09:50 - Mar 1 by perchrockjack |
Ive been in two unions
Ive been in shite a few times and they were useless.
Far from representing their members ,most had political agenda.
Plenty of conservative union members too
I've seen both Unions and Management at close quarters and our demise is a combination of both screwing up
This is evident in our class war, the way we take pride in being called "ordinary" or "working class " .ive nasty arthritis in my wrists but it d be worth it to punch the lights out if anyone calling me either of those turgid terms |
I think it's safe to say, perchie, you may get called a lot of things but "ordinary" will never be one of them. | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 10:23 - Mar 1 with 1186 views | SilverSurfer |
| More good news, bigots: on 09:27 - Mar 1 by blueytheblue |
Or having foreign companies bringing higher standards of quality to products.
British car industry in the 1970s was by and large sh*t quality work. |
You cant compare the 1970s with what is happening today.
BMW didn't buy and asset strip the Rover Car Group for nothing.
They took the best innovations and technology from Rover and Land Rover and incorporated into their own models.
They even had a free car in the Mini all the development was Rover and they have had the benefits | | | |
| More good news, bigots: on 10:26 - Mar 1 with 1176 views | blueytheblue |
| More good news, bigots: on 10:23 - Mar 1 by SilverSurfer |
You cant compare the 1970s with what is happening today.
BMW didn't buy and asset strip the Rover Car Group for nothing.
They took the best innovations and technology from Rover and Land Rover and incorporated into their own models.
They even had a free car in the Mini all the development was Rover and they have had the benefits |
Of course can't compare - automation far greater today than back then.
For the most part the build quality of British cars in the 70s was abysmal, which is why foreign cars became more attractive. Foreign car manufacturers building in Britain increased as the unions were shot down - otherwise improvements in processes would not have happened. | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 10:27 - Mar 1 with 1184 views | perchrockjack |
Bless you Bluey
Btw ,Whatever happened to llanrumney bluebird.
We were gonna meet up some day and squabble off into the sunset | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 10:34 - Mar 1 with 1182 views | londonlisa2001 |
| More good news, bigots: on 10:23 - Mar 1 by SilverSurfer |
You cant compare the 1970s with what is happening today.
BMW didn't buy and asset strip the Rover Car Group for nothing.
They took the best innovations and technology from Rover and Land Rover and incorporated into their own models.
They even had a free car in the Mini all the development was Rover and they have had the benefits |
Why does the geographical base of a company matter so much?
Seeing as you're discussing BMW, then outside the Quandt family, which still owns a huge chunk, the ownership of BMW is international, not solely German. The ownership of these huge companies is often as global as their manufacturing. In BMW's case, there are twice as many British institutional investors in the company as German as a percentage of the traded shares.
If the company was headquartered in the U.K. it'd be the same story - the 'owners' would not be British but would be shareholders from all over the world. The crucial bit is them manufacturing here, as they provide high quality jobs. | | | |
| More good news, bigots: on 10:46 - Mar 1 with 1158 views | SilverSurfer |
| More good news, bigots: on 10:26 - Mar 1 by blueytheblue |
Of course can't compare - automation far greater today than back then.
For the most part the build quality of British cars in the 70s was abysmal, which is why foreign cars became more attractive. Foreign car manufacturers building in Britain increased as the unions were shot down - otherwise improvements in processes would not have happened. |
I will agree that the power of the unions needed to be curbed and they did a lot of damage to British industry but the point is collaboration with foreign companies is a good thing. Honda had a partnership with Rover in the 80s and Rovers manufacturing process was massively improved.
BMW on the other hand bought Rover and didn't invest a penny they just sold off and utilised everything they could and discarded the rest.
What makes things worse is the government let it happen | | | |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:01 - Mar 1 with 1138 views | blueytheblue |
| More good news, bigots: on 10:46 - Mar 1 by SilverSurfer |
I will agree that the power of the unions needed to be curbed and they did a lot of damage to British industry but the point is collaboration with foreign companies is a good thing. Honda had a partnership with Rover in the 80s and Rovers manufacturing process was massively improved.
BMW on the other hand bought Rover and didn't invest a penny they just sold off and utilised everything they could and discarded the rest.
What makes things worse is the government let it happen |
BMW buying Rover was a bad deal for BMW. Convinced they needed Rover, the deal was concluded so quickly I very much doubt full due diligence was conducted.
I suspect BMW saw the long term future of Rover would have been an albatross so chose to monetise what they could. The sensible approach.
How could the government prevent it? Spend money nationalising Rover? | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 11:21 - Mar 1 with 1119 views | Lohengrin |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:01 - Mar 1 by blueytheblue |
BMW buying Rover was a bad deal for BMW. Convinced they needed Rover, the deal was concluded so quickly I very much doubt full due diligence was conducted.
I suspect BMW saw the long term future of Rover would have been an albatross so chose to monetise what they could. The sensible approach.
How could the government prevent it? Spend money nationalising Rover? |
How could the government prevent it? Spend money nationalising Rover?
Short answer, short-term, yes, as I believe has happened three times in the last sixty years via a combination of national and regional government intervention in the case of Bayerische Motoren Werke. The only difference, I suppose, is they call it State Sponsorship.
It's not an ideal world, granted, but national governments do to my way of thinking have a duty of care to that end. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| More good news, bigots: on 11:26 - Mar 1 with 1108 views | blueytheblue |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:21 - Mar 1 by Lohengrin |
How could the government prevent it? Spend money nationalising Rover?
Short answer, short-term, yes, as I believe has happened three times in the last sixty years via a combination of national and regional government intervention in the case of Bayerische Motoren Werke. The only difference, I suppose, is they call it State Sponsorship.
It's not an ideal world, granted, but national governments do to my way of thinking have a duty of care to that end. |
I presumed such state sponsorship was prohibited under EU regulations, state subsidies and all that.
Duty of care within the public sector, certainly but private sector? To what extent - should every failing company be subsidised by the state and therefore the taxpayer? Pick and choose - in which case people will always get upset if they weren't helped? | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 11:31 - Mar 1 with 1096 views | monmouth |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:21 - Mar 1 by Lohengrin |
How could the government prevent it? Spend money nationalising Rover?
Short answer, short-term, yes, as I believe has happened three times in the last sixty years via a combination of national and regional government intervention in the case of Bayerische Motoren Werke. The only difference, I suppose, is they call it State Sponsorship.
It's not an ideal world, granted, but national governments do to my way of thinking have a duty of care to that end. |
But not to let jerks like Towers run it and trouser all the money.
Kia and Hyundai can succeed from nowhere but we cant? With our car making heritage and accepted sky high prices on 'Treasure Island'? Shameful.
I have no real idea what I'm talking about by the way, other than my prejudiced soundbites, but that seems to be the only qualification these days (present company always excepted or course). | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 11:35 - Mar 1 with 1092 views | Lohengrin |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:26 - Mar 1 by blueytheblue |
I presumed such state sponsorship was prohibited under EU regulations, state subsidies and all that.
Duty of care within the public sector, certainly but private sector? To what extent - should every failing company be subsidised by the state and therefore the taxpayer? Pick and choose - in which case people will always get upset if they weren't helped? |
Yes, well, France and Germany as the founder members of a club that we were begged to lead on creation, let's not forget, were in a position to write-up a set of membership rules from which they were both exempt. How do you like those apples?
I think essential industries such as steel, energy, automotive and aerospace should be considered in a different light to most other enterprises, Bluey. Not just because of scale but because they serve to underpin most everything else. | |
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| More good news, bigots: on 11:48 - Mar 1 with 1069 views | londonlisa2001 |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:31 - Mar 1 by monmouth |
But not to let jerks like Towers run it and trouser all the money.
Kia and Hyundai can succeed from nowhere but we cant? With our car making heritage and accepted sky high prices on 'Treasure Island'? Shameful.
I have no real idea what I'm talking about by the way, other than my prejudiced soundbites, but that seems to be the only qualification these days (present company always excepted or course). |
Don't forget that the overwhelming wish of the unions and workforce at Rover was Phoenix. The government at the time therefore threw their weight behind it, rather than what may well have been the more sensible Alchemy proposal which the unions hated due to the job losses.
And BMW funded Phoenix to the order of £500m and sold Rover to them for a tenner from memory.
The government had also previously poured money into Rover more than once.
The issue was that they made crap cars, and no one wanted to buy one. | | | |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:55 - Mar 1 with 1061 views | Lohengrin |
| More good news, bigots: on 11:48 - Mar 1 by londonlisa2001 |
Don't forget that the overwhelming wish of the unions and workforce at Rover was Phoenix. The government at the time therefore threw their weight behind it, rather than what may well have been the more sensible Alchemy proposal which the unions hated due to the job losses.
And BMW funded Phoenix to the order of £500m and sold Rover to them for a tenner from memory.
The government had also previously poured money into Rover more than once.
The issue was that they made crap cars, and no one wanted to buy one. |
The issue was that they made crap cars, and no one wanted to buy one.
And yet the Rover 75 was voted European Car of the Year around 2000/2001.
The scale of the plant at Longbridge had to be seen to be believed, Lisa. I had occasion to visit there quite often around that time. All those jobs, all those families dependent upon them. You can multiply that x10 as you start to think in terms of Longbridge's supply chain. It's heartbreaking, it really is. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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