| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? 19:30 - Dec 20 with 5619 views | Lord_Bony |
We have heard they are preparing their legal case and a good one it is. But this is being done with a top QC who presumably would charge a lot for their services rendered with the prospect of it taking too long and the damage being done.
If there's a Qc and team involved then yes it will take a long time to sort out in the courts. I sincerely hope the trust stops in its tracks right now and takes appropriate action to ensure it does not get ensnared in the long drawnout legal battle
At the moment it's very simple, just get a court hearing have one or two representatives from both sides in a preliminary hearing and state the facts, use a law firm experienced in he particular points of dispute.
keep it simple and let the judge decide the merits of the case before going to a full hearing . Just test the water first... if thats possible.
Post Edit
I have deleted most of the OP as a lot of what I wrote came out as garbage. Not a good idea to post after drinking a glass or two of wine and being a little angry,I could not help myself it all came flowing out of the keyboard too fast to make sense and appeared a bit incoherent.
Apologies.
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 20:50 - Dec 20 with 1098 views | Watchman |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 20:42 - Dec 20 by Lord_Bony |
From what I can see on the .Gov website,it would cost 10k in court fees to bring the case to court for a full hearing if The Trust wanted to go ahead . |
And!
£10k to argue for the right of OUR football Club?
OUR football club should be pissing mid table at this point, we are not because of the actions and poor decision making of pretend individuals who have put their own wallet before the club
The fans LOVE the club and therefore we will always double think ourselves over something we love.
When the only thing you love is MONEY then decision making becomes easier as money comes first and last and always
sweet dreams my angel |  |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 20:56 - Dec 20 with 1066 views | jackportis |
Would judge rinder hear the case. We can all watch it then. |  |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 20:58 - Dec 20 with 1064 views | TheCooler |
Speaking from experience as someone running a sports club rolled over by a FTSE100 housebuilder. We were fortunate to have amongst our wider support some well connected legal eagles. They had our case looked at by the leading counsel in this field. The fact he agreed to take the case was given to us as a sign that he was extremely confident that we had a strong case and would be suitably compensated. It didn't go to court and we received ample compensation for our trouble, the opposition were also handed a truly massive legal bill.
The trust need to be told how strong their case is and what recourse will be given if the issue is found in their favour. The trust have to have to hand what they want from this.
The initial meeting with the QC that we met and some preliminary works cost our club £10k. We never paid this as the pricks we were dealing with rolled over after the 1st contact was made by our legal team.
In the legal world you get what you pay for, a decent QC won't take it on if they are not sure of success, the decent one's take pride in their professionalism and success rate.
From a lay mans point of view the Trust have been wronged, but what remedies are available?
Legal counsel has to be the answer, get a good one, it will be money well spent and everyone will sleep easier for having done so. |  | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 21:09 - Dec 20 with 1023 views | Lord_Bony |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 20:58 - Dec 20 by TheCooler |
Speaking from experience as someone running a sports club rolled over by a FTSE100 housebuilder. We were fortunate to have amongst our wider support some well connected legal eagles. They had our case looked at by the leading counsel in this field. The fact he agreed to take the case was given to us as a sign that he was extremely confident that we had a strong case and would be suitably compensated. It didn't go to court and we received ample compensation for our trouble, the opposition were also handed a truly massive legal bill.
The trust need to be told how strong their case is and what recourse will be given if the issue is found in their favour. The trust have to have to hand what they want from this.
The initial meeting with the QC that we met and some preliminary works cost our club £10k. We never paid this as the pricks we were dealing with rolled over after the 1st contact was made by our legal team.
In the legal world you get what you pay for, a decent QC won't take it on if they are not sure of success, the decent one's take pride in their professionalism and success rate.
From a lay mans point of view the Trust have been wronged, but what remedies are available?
Legal counsel has to be the answer, get a good one, it will be money well spent and everyone will sleep easier for having done so. |
Now we are getting somewhere at last instead of being side tracked by a bunch of fu'ckwits on here tonight.
The sports club found the answer amongst its own connected supporters and it cost them nothing.but they won their case handsomely.
As I have said here,we should do the same.Open the debate and turn to our fan base,don't keep us in the dark over this. There may be some good connections and legal representatives somewhere that will do the job in a preliminary hearing.worth a shot? At least worth looking into ffs... Maybe not?
This thing could well be settled before it even went to court for a full hearing .
Of course it depends how strong the Trusts case is.
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 21:12 - Dec 20 with 1016 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 20:38 - Dec 20 by Watchman |
the ReMoaners did |
They didn't though did they. [Post edited 20 Dec 2016 21:12]
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 21:17 - Dec 20 with 1003 views | Watchman |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 21:12 - Dec 20 by exiledclaseboy |
They didn't though did they. [Post edited 20 Dec 2016 21:12]
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I knew an elite apologist would argue the point. | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 21:18 - Dec 20 with 990 views | Shonky |
Thicker than an old fridge door. |  |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 22:33 - Dec 20 with 909 views | Lord_Bony |
Jesus H. Christ.
I'm suggesting....
A preliminary hearing first to test the waters before the Trust goes diving in at the deep end.
Try and avoid huge legal bills that are unnecessary. | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 22:55 - Dec 20 with 872 views | Swanseajill |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 22:33 - Dec 20 by Lord_Bony |
Jesus H. Christ.
I'm suggesting....
A preliminary hearing first to test the waters before the Trust goes diving in at the deep end.
Try and avoid huge legal bills that are unnecessary. |
If I remember correctly, at the AGM Phil said that any court case would have to go to the ballot of the Trust membership first.
I notice that Ux has not been around hearabouts for a few days, it would have been helpful for him to confirm this. |  | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 22:59 - Dec 20 with 866 views | TheFranchise |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 19:46 - Dec 20 by morningstar |
This is a PS first surely! I can't ever remember a moderator having a mental breakdown on the site anytime in the past tbh. |
you must be new here, it happened all the time on the old PS. |  | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:05 - Dec 20 with 852 views | morningstar |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 22:59 - Dec 20 by TheFranchise |
you must be new here, it happened all the time on the old PS. |
On the old PS? Is that as far back as you go then? And i'm new?  |  |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:07 - Dec 20 with 846 views | Swanseajill |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:05 - Dec 20 by morningstar |
On the old PS? Is that as far back as you go then? And i'm new? |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:10 - Dec 20 with 836 views | TheCooler |
It's difficult to understand from a distance what the Trust are looking for. On the little information in the public domain, it appears that the Trust as a significant shareholder has been let down by the Chairman. Under UK law on corporate governance the Chairman has distinct responsibilities to all shareholders and in particular the rights of and obligations to. The Trust believe they have not been kept informed, he's banged to rights on that one. Their rights and the obligations of others to them have been dismissed out of hand, Chairman appears to have chosen to deal with this by changing A&A.
There are suggestions on this platform that some insider dealing has also gone on, corporate governance law in the UK provides for this and places distinct responsibility on shareholders to declare their interests on any work/contract of £100k or more or 5% of contract value of £5k or more. This would have to have board approval and be minuted. This is basic stuff and surely with the business experience of those involved at the club be a given. The Trust representative on the board would/should have knowledge of this.
Part of the learning here is the Trust should ensure that their board rep/s are properly trained and informed on responsibility of directors and the relationship with other board members. Part of the role is to challenge, protect interests of shareholders and the health of the business.
On the face of it, the rules of corporate governance appear to have been abandoned and seen as a mere obstruction to the pursuit of the best interests of a select few. There are lots of businesses in the UK run like this, but a business with such a high public profile is committing suicide by acting in this manner. I truly understand why so many are so reluctant to criticise or rally for action, but in light of what's gone on and the long term consequences for the whole club all of the supporters should get behind the Trust and the Trust have to the right thing by the supporters.
I hope and pray that the Trust get the right advice from the right people and be brave. £10K would be money well spent for the right advice. | | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:11 - Dec 20 with 832 views | Lord_Bony |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 22:55 - Dec 20 by Swanseajill |
If I remember correctly, at the AGM Phil said that any court case would have to go to the ballot of the Trust membership first.
I notice that Ux has not been around hearabouts for a few days, it would have been helpful for him to confirm this. |
Thankyou Swansea Jill.
That is very helpful. | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:12 - Dec 20 with 825 views | TheFranchise |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:05 - Dec 20 by morningstar |
On the old PS? Is that as far back as you go then? And i'm new? |
Perhaps I missed the irony in your post :)
But yeah, meltdowns were quite frequent. | | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:18 - Dec 20 with 724 views | Lord_Bony |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:10 - Dec 20 by TheCooler |
It's difficult to understand from a distance what the Trust are looking for. On the little information in the public domain, it appears that the Trust as a significant shareholder has been let down by the Chairman. Under UK law on corporate governance the Chairman has distinct responsibilities to all shareholders and in particular the rights of and obligations to. The Trust believe they have not been kept informed, he's banged to rights on that one. Their rights and the obligations of others to them have been dismissed out of hand, Chairman appears to have chosen to deal with this by changing A&A.
There are suggestions on this platform that some insider dealing has also gone on, corporate governance law in the UK provides for this and places distinct responsibility on shareholders to declare their interests on any work/contract of £100k or more or 5% of contract value of £5k or more. This would have to have board approval and be minuted. This is basic stuff and surely with the business experience of those involved at the club be a given. The Trust representative on the board would/should have knowledge of this.
Part of the learning here is the Trust should ensure that their board rep/s are properly trained and informed on responsibility of directors and the relationship with other board members. Part of the role is to challenge, protect interests of shareholders and the health of the business.
On the face of it, the rules of corporate governance appear to have been abandoned and seen as a mere obstruction to the pursuit of the best interests of a select few. There are lots of businesses in the UK run like this, but a business with such a high public profile is committing suicide by acting in this manner. I truly understand why so many are so reluctant to criticise or rally for action, but in light of what's gone on and the long term consequences for the whole club all of the supporters should get behind the Trust and the Trust have to the right thing by the supporters.
I hope and pray that the Trust get the right advice from the right people and be brave. £10K would be money well spent for the right advice. |
Now we are getting even closer to unravelling the mysteries going on behind-the-scenes.
HJ could be in a lot of trouble here.
We need more quality posters like you on this forum. | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:18 - Dec 20 with 721 views | Swanseajill |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:11 - Dec 20 by Lord_Bony |
Thankyou Swansea Jill.
That is very helpful. |
You're welcome. | | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:21 - Dec 20 with 713 views | Martyrman57 |
As i am not itk i support LB's suggestion. At least we get some progress. concentrate on former shareholders. leave Judge Judy to sort the Yank$ out. | | | |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:34 - Dec 20 with 869 views | Lord_Bony |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 23:21 - Dec 20 by Martyrman57 |
As i am not itk i support LB's suggestion. At least we get some progress. concentrate on former shareholders. leave Judge Judy to sort the Yank$ out. |
Well said Mart.
The Trust needs to come out in the open,turn to the support and indeed the great city of Swansea and its communities for its strength. Its too weak to fight this thing alone.
Lets get that preliminary hearing going soon before its too late. | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 08:52 - Dec 21 with 780 views | Pegojack |
It was quite clearly stated in the Trust AGM by Phil that they are taking professional legal advice about the breach of the articles of association.
It was also stated that any legal action would have to be approved by a vote of members.
I think we all have to be a little patient here. They are obviously not going to lay their legal tactics out in detail for the Scum to know exactly what's planned.
At the end of the day, the legal advice might be that we don't have a good chance of winning, so suck it up, there's nothing we can do. However, if we have a more than 50% chance of winning, I'd be quite happy to vote to go ahead. £800k is not enough to buy a football club, unless it's a complete basket case, so we might as well spend it on getting legal redress. [Post edited 21 Dec 2016 8:54]
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 10:04 - Dec 21 with 734 views | monmouth |
I should be working, so just to avoid that, I'll post another totally uninformed opinion.
If the Trust had an obvious case, then it would have been well....obvious. Action would be in train by now.
Corporate governance "law" doesn't exist. PLCs have to apply the uk code if they want to be listed on the uk stock exchange. Any private company actions are based on minority protections under the companies act.
So is the Trust currently worse off than it was (unfairly prejudiced)? Well....
It had 21% voting rights; it has 21% voting rights
It had a director on the football board; it has a director on the football board
They could have tried to sell their minority stake at any time: They can try to sell their minority stake at any time.
Fact is, the other shareholders could always have acted together to do everything the Americans have done in terms of the articles or in board decisions. Nothing's changed except the identity and number of owners of that majority.
Might argue that the Trust's share is less valuable now because of the single majority shareholder being able to act against them, but in terms of how the company actually functions that might be a tough sell, seeing that the others DID act in concert 'against' the Trust by acting as a single majority in selling out as one. Is that in itself unfair prejudice? God knows, but if it were that clear cut surely the legal action decision would be easy.
So what's left?
Well the fact the others ignored pre-emption (surely still an issue, whether they assumed the trust wouldn't/couldn't buy or not?).
Anything else that was in that shareholders agreement as long as it's held valid (Jenkins trying to get the Trust to sign it away would seem to nail that one down).
Illegal changes to Articles through lack of due process?
For me, the Yanks have to actually financially prejudice the minority shareholder by their actions, and as yet, they haven't done that.
Much as I'd like to see the sellouts screwed down in court, I don't think we'll ever see that. All totally speculative, my legal knowledge is minimal. [Post edited 21 Dec 2016 10:06]
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 12:35 - Dec 21 with 678 views | TheResurrection |
Are there examples in Case Law of good faith, honesty and loyalty being breached and found in the favour of the shareholder affected?
Could it be argued that a breach in the duty of loyalty should be litigated? It is clear all other shareholders colluded against the Trust to benefit themselves, not the Corporation, (although of course they could argue it was to benefit the Club) to the point they completely disregarded the Shareholders Agreement that had presided since the start.
In a small Corporation, such as we are/were i.e. more like a Partnership than a Company with countless shareholders, trust between share¬holders is necessary. Just because SCFC was run as a corporation rather than a partnership shouldn’t protect the selling shareholders from duties similar to that of true partnerships.
Also as the affected shareholder (The Trust) effectively entrusted other shareholders to look after the Club’s monies (future), wouldn’t there be a fiduciary duty on behalf of the people that sold to act in good faith, be honest and loyal, and then by them not doing this, would it not constitute a breach of law?
I know everything fundamentally centres around unfair prejudice, which you could technically argue at this very point we have not been, but at one point the Trust felt safe in the knowledge they had a strong position and a future role and now it’s anything but. |  |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 12:51 - Dec 21 with 651 views | monmouth |
The quasi-partnership angle is interesting for sure. Not sure what the proofs of unfair treatment are, or the potential remedies - I know even less about partnership law than I do about company law. | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 12:57 - Dec 21 with 643 views | TheResurrection |
| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 12:51 - Dec 21 by monmouth |
The quasi-partnership angle is interesting for sure. Not sure what the proofs of unfair treatment are, or the potential remedies - I know even less about partnership law than I do about company law. |
.... that it has more of a direct impact on the remaining partners than the Company as a whole, for one?! | |
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| Should The Trust be seeking legal counsel from the fans? on 15:30 - Dec 21 with 579 views | Nookiejack |
Have the Yanks started paying themselves 'Stan Kroenke' type advisory fees yet? Or fees for example for successful acquisition of the of the club?
How much have they been so far? What's to stop excessive fees being paid to them in the future?
What level of fees would deemed to be excessive and unfairly prejudicial to the minority?
Spending the circa £1m the Trust has in the bank on legal fees to protect the £23m value at stake seems a good investment decision for me.
Doing nothing and watching the world pass by is not a decision I think the trust should be making. | | | |
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