| James Ball 22:05 - Aug 30 with 16794 views | meeee |
What’s up with this guy? A few weeks ago he scores and stands in front of the Sandy with his finger in his ears staring at the fans. Tonight he scores and doesn’t celebrate but stares right at the fans again. He gets subbed off and doesn’t clap the fans, and then when the players came over at the full time whistle after the team talk on the pitch he’s behind all the other players shoulders slumped and sulking |  | | |  |
| James Ball on 11:48 - Sep 1 with 3542 views | BillyRudd |
Some personal observations on the relationship between fans and players....
Fans are fickle. Really really fickle. There are,nt many occupations where you can go from pantomime villain to hero in the time it takes to score a goal. In the same vane any brownie points accrued by a player have a very short shelf life.
The above is doubly so when the fan base is sensitised (as ours is) by several seasons of a frustrating match day experience. I sense a concerted push by the club to keep the fans onside for what is ahead of us. It is never far from the Chairmans lips, exhorting fans to get behind the players as they rightly point out, that it does make a difference.
Over the years I have often cringed at some of the abuse meted out to our players and all referees must be masochists. Of course the upside for a player is the opportunity for boundless riches and adulation doing a job most of us would lust after.
Ball is an interesting case. When he arrived he was lauded as someone who would provide much needed backbone to a team considered lacking in combative spirit. For a time it appeared to be the case. However in those early days it was apparent that he had stamina issues. At first I thought it was lack of match fitness but it is even more apparent now. No great problem if he is played further forward and having the option of 5 subs. I think his inability to track back and close down players tightly in the Dawson, Jones and Cooksey mode makes him a liabilty around our box.
Hopefully our new manager will have the man management skills to get his head in the right place and for seventy minutes he could be an asset because it is very apparent that there is a problem here. For me the Shan connection is an irrelevance as he is playing for the club, not an ex assistant manager.
Unfortunately regardless of the rights and wrongs of the toxicity of Twitter posts (I have no idea, I don,t use it) then there is a simple expedient if it is affecting his sensibilities so much. DON,T USE IT. Its the obverse of adulation, one comes with the other de facto. If you can handle it then great but if it is,nt in your skillset (like all the great players must have) then recognise it, and concentrate on knocking that bag of air between those wooden posts and you will receive adulation enough.
Sadly I must refer to his post match celebration at Accy. To be upfront, I was,nt there, I only saw a rear view but if your first thought after scoring a goal is an issue with the fans rather than a celebration, if not with them, then with your teammates, then for me at the moment his head is not in the right place. More importantly the apparent spitting whether innocent or not should not be repeated, lest it is misconstrued.
Hope he rubs his critics nose in it going forward, as we need all available talents at the moment but he definitely needs to go about it in a different manner.
Up the Dale |  | | |
| James Ball on 13:24 - Sep 1 with 3305 views | D_Alien |
| James Ball on 11:48 - Sep 1 by BillyRudd |
Some personal observations on the relationship between fans and players....
Fans are fickle. Really really fickle. There are,nt many occupations where you can go from pantomime villain to hero in the time it takes to score a goal. In the same vane any brownie points accrued by a player have a very short shelf life.
The above is doubly so when the fan base is sensitised (as ours is) by several seasons of a frustrating match day experience. I sense a concerted push by the club to keep the fans onside for what is ahead of us. It is never far from the Chairmans lips, exhorting fans to get behind the players as they rightly point out, that it does make a difference.
Over the years I have often cringed at some of the abuse meted out to our players and all referees must be masochists. Of course the upside for a player is the opportunity for boundless riches and adulation doing a job most of us would lust after.
Ball is an interesting case. When he arrived he was lauded as someone who would provide much needed backbone to a team considered lacking in combative spirit. For a time it appeared to be the case. However in those early days it was apparent that he had stamina issues. At first I thought it was lack of match fitness but it is even more apparent now. No great problem if he is played further forward and having the option of 5 subs. I think his inability to track back and close down players tightly in the Dawson, Jones and Cooksey mode makes him a liabilty around our box.
Hopefully our new manager will have the man management skills to get his head in the right place and for seventy minutes he could be an asset because it is very apparent that there is a problem here. For me the Shan connection is an irrelevance as he is playing for the club, not an ex assistant manager.
Unfortunately regardless of the rights and wrongs of the toxicity of Twitter posts (I have no idea, I don,t use it) then there is a simple expedient if it is affecting his sensibilities so much. DON,T USE IT. Its the obverse of adulation, one comes with the other de facto. If you can handle it then great but if it is,nt in your skillset (like all the great players must have) then recognise it, and concentrate on knocking that bag of air between those wooden posts and you will receive adulation enough.
Sadly I must refer to his post match celebration at Accy. To be upfront, I was,nt there, I only saw a rear view but if your first thought after scoring a goal is an issue with the fans rather than a celebration, if not with them, then with your teammates, then for me at the moment his head is not in the right place. More importantly the apparent spitting whether innocent or not should not be repeated, lest it is misconstrued.
Hope he rubs his critics nose in it going forward, as we need all available talents at the moment but he definitely needs to go about it in a different manner.
Up the Dale |
I agree with most of that, and there will be plenty of fans who don't read this messageboard or use Twitter but just see a player not celebrating in the way he should - a toxic situation all round
That's why it's time for a reset. The manager will be aware of this, i'm pretty sure. One thing pretty much guaranteed is that if Ball starts at Carlisle (which by rights he should, given his contribution at Accy), that's a message from the manager that he's supporting the player rather than taking the view that Ball's attitude is wrong. It's up to both Ball and the fans to put this to bed, but there will be some 'fans' getting fuelled up before kick off at Carlisle to have a go back at Ball and restart the whole thing. This is where the moronism leads us
One thing's for sure - it wouldn't have happened in '69... |  |
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| James Ball on 13:40 - Sep 1 with 3280 views | Brierls |
| James Ball on 20:28 - Aug 31 by Shun |
I would hope that Ball would be mature enough to deal with constructive criticism. However, a lot of it has gone way beyond that. Some of the puerile stuff on Twitter was OTT and uncalled for. Calling him the worst player to ever play for Dale, for example, is ludicrous and silly. All for a player who was a fan’s favourite last season, yet because of a poor few games he’s being castigated. Not to mention he and his partner are clearly aware of posts like that. |
He's not the worst player to play for Dale, not even close.
The basis for being a 'fans favourite' appears to be a result of his interaction on Twitter, it can't possibly be for what he's done on the pitch! If you're using a 'few games' as a measurement, I'd suggest he's had a few good games, rather than a few poor games.
I'm calling him out for what I've seen on the pitch. That's him being mostly shite since signing (he was great for two games when he first signed) and consistently blowing out of his arse after 60 mins. He can't run and he can't pass. I don't care about the Shan connection, he's a Dale player, not a Shan or Stockdale player. If he's being tweeted directly with abuse, that's wrong, but those highlights suggested he has an issue with Dale fans in general.
Let's see if Bentley's arrival results in a different player. If he can consistently show us what he did in the first few games he'll be a fans favourite for the right reasons. |  | | |
| James Ball on 15:32 - Sep 1 with 3031 views | finberty |
Didn't go, so only seen the highlights on here. It looked to me as though Ball was doing exactly what we've been looking for - driving forward to score and then to assist.
Obviously you can't see his face when he looks to the fans, and as for the spitting - well, many do it and it's arguably partly down to aggression (which we want) and necessity (which, if so, no-one can dispute, even if it's then misconstrued).
I can't comment on the greeting of the fans at the end as it's not on the clip, but there may be any number of reasons why he had the hump, and may actually be nothing to do with the supporters.
It might be difficult to comprehend, but we're not always the number one focus for the players.
Ball came in to an underperforming team, tried to gain L2 fitness from the word go, and is now seemingly not alone in discovering that the 'pre-season' work of RS, Shan and co did not properly prepare the players for the robust demands of L2. EBJ will put that right.
Still plenty of time for him to regain his edge and fitness and become the engine we've been wanting, but I suggest we can ill-afford to alienate one of our own. |  | | |
| James Ball on 15:48 - Sep 1 with 2987 views | SaxonDale |
‘… nd is now seemingly not alone in discovering that the 'pre-season' work of RS, Shan and co did not properly prepare the players for the robust demands of L2. EBJ will put that right.’
Completely agree with that part which is probably what I’m most excited to see from Bentley. It alarmed me on the first game of the season how some of our players seemed way off the pace- whether that was fitness or lack of understand of the system I’m sure Bentley will sort both.
I’ve been as critical on Ball’s performances as anyone (still don’t think it was all his fault) but he clearly does have something about him. As others have said he shouldn’t be relied on to do much defensively but he does have a knack of making things happen in the final third. |  | | |
| James Ball on 16:15 - Sep 1 with 2897 views | DaleiLama |
| James Ball on 09:04 - Sep 1 by D_Alien |
Fair enough
If i knew the ins and outs of Twitter, i'd do it myself, but i honestly think a message or two of support should be posted; also pointing out that we have morons (like every other club) but they're in a minority, and wishing Ball every success at Dale |
I also think, DA, there is an element of the below behaviour to some of these morons. Not saying insults won't be hurled at players from the crowd by any means, but I do feel like the on line "glass door" gives some folks the feeling they have carte blanche to say whatever they like. Human decency is lost in translation.
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| James Ball on 09:49 - Sep 2 with 2518 views | BillyRudd |
| James Ball on 13:24 - Sep 1 by D_Alien |
I agree with most of that, and there will be plenty of fans who don't read this messageboard or use Twitter but just see a player not celebrating in the way he should - a toxic situation all round
That's why it's time for a reset. The manager will be aware of this, i'm pretty sure. One thing pretty much guaranteed is that if Ball starts at Carlisle (which by rights he should, given his contribution at Accy), that's a message from the manager that he's supporting the player rather than taking the view that Ball's attitude is wrong. It's up to both Ball and the fans to put this to bed, but there will be some 'fans' getting fuelled up before kick off at Carlisle to have a go back at Ball and restart the whole thing. This is where the moronism leads us
One thing's for sure - it wouldn't have happened in '69... |
Ha ha your right D A. There might have been mayhem ensuing on the terraces (at the corner of Wilbutts and Sandy during the half time change over) but I can,t imagine Reg even spitting (I,m sure he did) let alone it being possibly construed as a gesture.
Up the Dale | | | |
| James Ball on 13:40 - Sep 4 with 2003 views | Brierls |
Played well yesterday. There’s little doubt that he’s at his best playing further forward, that’s not a secret. His skill and then end product for our third yesterday is exactly what we need. | | | |
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| James Ball on 13:43 - Sep 4 with 1988 views | TomRAFC |
| James Ball on 13:40 - Sep 4 by Brierls |
Played well yesterday. There’s little doubt that he’s at his best playing further forward, that’s not a secret. His skill and then end product for our third yesterday is exactly what we need. |
Agreed.
Watching on ifollow you also see how much encouragement he gives his teammates, something EBJ said he wanted to see more of. | |
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| James Ball on 13:50 - Sep 4 with 1957 views | D_Alien |
| James Ball on 13:43 - Sep 4 by TomRAFC |
Agreed.
Watching on ifollow you also see how much encouragement he gives his teammates, something EBJ said he wanted to see more of. |
The latter point is one reason why i was never going to wade into Ball like others have, despite his poor form prior to the EBJ era
Right from when he joined, he was putting himself about protecting his team-mates from bigger, badder opponents and giving encouragement where needed. In fact, showing leadership on the pitch
White was captain against Accy. White started yesterday but O'D was made captain. It'll be interesting to see, when EEL comes back whether he retains the armband. I don't think EBJ will be afraid to appoint his own man. Could still be EEL, but we'll see | |
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| James Ball on 15:14 - Sep 4 with 1814 views | R17ALE |
| James Ball on 13:50 - Sep 4 by D_Alien |
The latter point is one reason why i was never going to wade into Ball like others have, despite his poor form prior to the EBJ era
Right from when he joined, he was putting himself about protecting his team-mates from bigger, badder opponents and giving encouragement where needed. In fact, showing leadership on the pitch
White was captain against Accy. White started yesterday but O'D was made captain. It'll be interesting to see, when EEL comes back whether he retains the armband. I don't think EBJ will be afraid to appoint his own man. Could still be EEL, but we'll see |
It was noticeable that before kick off Ball was the first player to applaud the travelling supporters. Little things like that go a long way. |  |
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| James Ball on 15:38 - Sep 4 with 1753 views | D_Alien |
| James Ball on 15:14 - Sep 4 by R17ALE |
It was noticeable that before kick off Ball was the first player to applaud the travelling supporters. Little things like that go a long way. |
Good to hear
Pretty sure there will have been a chat by EBJ about this, and hopefully now put to bed | |
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