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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 13:14 1 Jun 2015
Protests began in earnest this season when the club was at an (apparent) nadir. Dialogue - as it was - ended this season when the club reached that nadir.
Have we seen anything between then and now that tells us things have changed sufficiently to return to dialogue?
The answer is categorically NO. Yet, you're proposing that 'we' go back to where we were without a hint of change being shown by the club. That is the simple, but massive, flaw in your logic TT. You're apparently willing to give a little ground for them without any assurance of any compromise from the other side. It just plays directly into the hands of those who are willing to operate at a much lower level of moral standards than you.
Do what you need to do. We're all Blackpool fans and we all want the same end result. But don't be surprised when things don't work and you look daft. I've held back on saying this as I've tried to give people some slack. But I TOLD YOU SO before. And I'm TELLING YOU SO now. You'll be wrong. People like X3 and I will be right. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 14:15 29 May 2015
"It's because I believe that a repetition is less likely if we back the manager and the players"
Why do you think we were so utterly awful under Riga then? He and his players were certainly backed by a large swathe of supporters from where I was looking. Aside from a few on here as it goes who were insistent that he could be doing more with what he had. There's no evidence to suggest that we will get better with support and I suspect this notion is driven by hope, not a willingness to stare the facts full in the face.
Your sentiment is fine and there's a time when it will be the right way forward. But I don't think this is that time, because every bit of evidence that has emerged over the last few years in particular shows you exactly what their 'game' is. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 09:34 29 May 2015
20's,
the point i was making in that post was that the Trust have effectively said: 'OK. We'll consider taking part in this situation and accepting the olive branch you've offered. But here are the terms we insist on before we do anything.'
Whether those terms are met or not - and we all know they won't be - doesn't really matter. It's the idea that they are saying 'you need to change. not us' to karl/owen. And that contrasts greatly to some of the FP 'supporters' on this thread who are taking the idea on face value and asking for nothing up front from the O's before anything else happens. In other words, they are going into the discussions on blind faith that they will lead to something. I don't know how many times people need to be lied to, before they realise that certain people can't be trusted.
It goes back to a point I made earlier in the thread: IF, you HAVE to sign up for this. PLEASE. AT THE VERY LEAST do so AFTER seeing some signs of real action from the owners that shows they are treating the club with the right level of care, attention and investment that it truly needs. Otherwise, we're just walking into another 'Riga Revolution' and once Karl's got the ST's signed up, it's job done for him and he'll sit back and dick around for another season knowing he's got a fixed revenue coming in early doors/month on month irrespective of what happens on the cabbage patch.
It's common sense to be honest.
Squeeze the cashflow in the summer and you'll get them sweating a bit.
Keep the isolation going and the bad publicity cropping up and they'll keep sweating.
Expect the same from them until physically proven otherwise. (And there's a post from Biggie earlier in the thread that succinctly outlines the sort of action that would get people on side IF there are people who still don't get it.) |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 20:51 28 May 2015
It's staggering that people are missing the key points over and over again.
To those that talk about people needing to see a different point of view or accepting that others see it another way. That's fine. People have different opinions. However in this specific scenario there are people proposing a point of view that has already been TRIED and has already FAILED. What people like me are pointing out is that doing the same thing again won't bring a new outcome no matter how hard you want to believe that it will. Every ounce of logic and common sense supports what I'm saying and nothing supports the counter argument.
If one way failed, then another way NEEDS to be tried.
For those that are suggesting that the BST is seeking dialogue. Wrong. They are seeking dialogue ON THEIR TERMS. It's a clear and obvious difference that sets it apart from 12 random season ticket holders taking up this 'challenge' and trying to discuss things with Karl. What I've failed to see from anyone who is saying this is a good idea is a view that the owners of the club need to bring something to this party. People are talking like this is a way back FOR US. No. It's a way back FOR THEM and they are the ones who need to be meeting requirements for discussion or coming to the table with some firm action.
Given that we all know they'd never agree to the BST's requests, it's clear that supporters shouldn't just give in at the first position, but hold their stance and demand ACTION not WORDS. We've waited long enough FFS.
And finally, and perhaps most importantly, stop to consider just where and when we are in the year. And its this point in particular that will see people get grief for supporting this offer. It's designed to alienate those who are refusing to back the owners with CASH. The one thing they have shown means the world to them. Last nights statement, the fans parliment, whispers of Ollie coming back. All designed to get people interested and hopeful of change after the worst season I can recall in my time supporting the club. A season that was so obviously on its way from the previous awful season and the sinking ship that started leaking on September 1 2012 when it was obvious Ollie had been refused the players he and we knew would give us a massive chance of promotion to the Premier League.
It's plain and simple. Going onto this sham will be to the detriment of the effort of people who are truly trying to save this club and get us back to a position where we can at least feel like a football club again. Going along with their sham offers and half-hearted 'we'll see what we can do's' is a recipe for total disaster and a spineless act. Dig in and recognise that we are in it for the long haul. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 11:24 28 May 2015
I'd reply to TT if I knew what LOPM meant. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 09:42 27 May 2015
To quote BasilRobbie (in totally different circumstances) 'some fans get the club they deserve.'
Let's bust some myths. There is not a single supporter who given the choice would not want to simply enjoy the football on offer at Blackpool FC and just get on with the 'business' of supporting the men in tangerine. We ALL want that. It's just that some of us seem to be slightly more aware of what persons and what issues drive a happy club and what persons and issues are holding the club back.
This is the last thing Is re-entering into dialogue a 'new way'? Or have we been here before? |
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Reply | How many seasons will it take us to get out of League One
at 14:56 26 May 2015
The Oyston's became the owners of the club in 1988. We were in League 1 (as was). It was 2007 when we finally got promoted out of League 1, coincidentally this was the first season involving investment from Latvia. Also coincidentally, our rise well beyond mere promotion to the Championship (and subsequent fall) all track the timeline of proactive Latvian investment.
I think that tells you all you need to know about our chances of promotion under the glorious Oyston regime. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 14:22 26 May 2015
Superhands:
"It's almost like the O's have said, ride the storm, this is no time to invest, we'll only put more money in once it all blows over."
Seriously? |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 12:56 26 May 2015
It's a shame you don't agree with the opening paragraph as it's the crux of this; why is there a need for dialogue at present, when the problems that weigh the clubs down can be easily acknowledged by the owners who, of course, are also in the best place to attempt to solve them.
Things have gone too far and there has been too much metaphorical blood spilt to just say 'let's forget what's happened and look to the future.' The past actions of the owners have to be 'put right' and I'm not having it that they need supporter input to understand what are grievances are. If that IS the case, then they simply don't have the skillset required to run a business such as this. And as a point of order, when I'm talking about 'past actions' I don't mean on the legal side of things, I'm talking purely football.
What I can't 'get' from your side of this debate, is where you're linking dialogue with karl as a way of improving the performance on the pitch. If this was the case, why wasn't it happening when the BSA were in dialogue? Or is it the protests that have derailed things? (even though there's loads of evidence pointing to a decline well before 3/4's of regular supporters even started to realise what was happening.) The implication is that we can move forward with this approach, even though the dialogue is a mere footnote in the main story. It won't change anything unless fundamental changes are made first. Which takes us back to where I started; if people insist on entering into dialogue, please, at the very least, do so AFTER the club has shown a real desire for change by DOING SOMETHING rather than just talking about what it might do.
You mention that you MAY hold a minority view. In my opinion - and I accept it's just that - I think you ARE holding a minority view. And it doesn't serve anyone to let that miniority view be passed off as the majority view by those seeking to make their own capital out of it.
All the things you talk about would be excellent ideas in a normal, positive football club that is looking to work with its fans for the benefit of the club. When we fit that bill, then maybe we can think about this sort of thing. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 13:37 24 May 2015
Tam,
I think it's a fairly simple choice. Back the parliament under the present conditions and you back and support the destruction of the club.
Anyone joining this group is no different to a wimbledon supporter travelling to Milton Keynes. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 09:08 24 May 2015
Pretty depressing reading these replies from TT and I have to hope it's just a personal view rather than that of the BSA committee, because make no mistake, joining this group will put us right back to where we started.
There has to be an understanding and distinction made between what is needed short term and what is needed long term.
One day, when the club has moved back to sanity and the land of the living, ideas such as this will be welcomed and key to not only building the relationship between club and supporter, so that it is something more than a relationship between company and customer, but also to leveraging what should be an unlimited amount of free support in all sorts of areas that can help the club move forward and progress.
But right now, there's some very simple facts and situations that cannot be ignored and have to be resolved before ANY sort of discussion can take place between the respective parties. They have been laid out by plenty before me and i don't see any need to repeat whats been said there. Suffice to say, before supporters go anywhere near the owners and their hypothetical olive branch, supporters HAVE to see a real olive branch. Real actions and real physical and transparent change to what has gone before.
People need to show some self respect and some dignity and stand firm. All the evidence is there and in place. Bending for them, when theyve not compromised one iota will be weak and selfish. It will be a decision made out of some bizarre and misguided idea that if you close your eyes, click your heels together and sing Glad All Over, we'll somehow be back in Kansas with a team challenging for honours. A little bit of self-sacrifice is needed. |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 11:13 23 May 2015
Great post Biggie. Summing it up perfectly. |
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Reply | Twelve Angry Men
at 11:06 22 May 2015
Good point well made stu. I can't believe TAM started this specific thread to talk about himself..... |
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Reply | Fans Parliament
at 09:24 22 May 2015
I could have written something seperate here, but its as easy to copy my views from realAvftt and paste them in here:
Anyone wanting to join would be a total fool and would also be letting down the club and all well meaning fans.
We don't need talk or board 'representation'. We need them to up and leave as it's been shown and proven beyond any shadow of doubt that they do not have the FOOTBALL clubs best interests at heart.
The BSA stepped away last season and they in particular MUST hold firm and not fall for what will be a nothing role in a dying club. Anyone seriously thinking this could work if they 'did this' or 'change that' only need ask themselves one very simple question: have we been here before with the oyston family?
The answer to that question is unequivocally 'YES'. And they chose to respond on all other occasions by doing nothing and even deciding that the best way to respond to genuine and fair criticism was to take legal action against loyal customers.
They are in no position to offer discussion to season ticket holders - and the timing of this shows you that it is season ticket sales they are really after - they have only one course of action that is relevant to true supporters. And that is to act as true custodians of this club in terms of proper and meaningful investment that works in line with a proper vision of how the club can develop and attempt to prosper.
There's no hope of them doing that. So instead of offering up lightweight ideas and PR exercises that actually show their total lack of respect for our intelligence, they should just clear off and let us pick up the pieces of the broken club they leave behind; working with people in charge who actually care about working for the club rather than caring about getting the club working for them.
We've had close to 30 years of talk rather than action from the Oyston family. Does anyone seriously believe that now is the time for them to change their ways? If you do, then I genuinely pity you.
Oyston out. Blackpool football club in. Don't be fooled by this. Stand firm and truly support the club by either making them act properly or leaving. |
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Reply | Nile Ranger theory
at 10:46 20 May 2015
Karl would never just let him walk. He'd prefer to stop him playing for anyone else unless he can collect what he spent on him.
Just shows that there's zero value in these gambles. |
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Reply | Three Jihadi Brides
at 22:40 12 May 2015
Thought jane was going to give us her best bernard manning here....
Three Jihadi Brides walk into a bar.
The barman says why the almost entirely covered face.
#jesuistrow |
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