| Some rather telling stats - pass completion 10:00 - Sep 3 with 1924 views | PatfromPoole |
This link is quite interesting.
The only team in the Prem with more completed passes than us is Man.City.
We have 1,795 completed passes.
Newcastle have 758.
Points in the table:
Saints 0
Newcastle 7
Just reinforces my opinion that we should be aiming for 35% possession in matches.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/passing/Premier-League-Stats |  |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:07 - Sep 3 with 1887 views | saintwizzler |
If the individual errors were cut out, schoolboy errors in fact, we’d be unbeaten this season.
Masters of our own downfall. |  |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:21 - Sep 3 with 1869 views | PatfromPoole |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:07 - Sep 3 by saintwizzler |
If the individual errors were cut out, schoolboy errors in fact, we’d be unbeaten this season.
Masters of our own downfall. |
But having then gone behind in matches, we pass and pass and pass while the oppo keeper has a cigar.
We had 548 completed passes at Brentford (who themselves had just 310), yet we only had 6 shots on target.
That is 91 passes per shot on target, FFS.
Not much “REWARD” there, is there, Russell? | |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:30 - Sep 3 with 1828 views | Ifonly |
Part of the problem is that most of these passes are pointless and unproductive. Look at who is actually making the passes:
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
Out of all PL players, we have 3 of the top 6 for passes made. They are Bednarak, Stephens and THB. How many of those passes are useful?
I'd rather get the ball quickly to someone like Lallana or Dibling and let them make the passes. While our defenders are passing it around between themselves, the opposition are either preparing to steal it, or organising their block to stop our attack. |  | | |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:34 - Sep 3 with 1819 views | dirk_doone |
Lately, I've noticed that most PL games are won by the team with less possession, for example, Newcastle just beat Spurs, who had 66% possession.
Man City's team is so much stronger than the other teams that they'd win whatever system they played, even if they had Harry Redknapp telling them to just go out and play.
But, for most teams, the posssession game is a recipe for disaster. The opponents know you are going to spend most of the game passing sideways and backwards in your own half and just wait like vultures to intercept the passes, which is what they all do to us. We are far too naive and predictable for the Premier League. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:35]
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:37 - Sep 3 with 1805 views | Butty101 |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:07 - Sep 3 by saintwizzler |
If the individual errors were cut out, schoolboy errors in fact, we’d be unbeaten this season.
Masters of our own downfall. |
We wouldnt, Forrest and Brentford battered us and had loads of chances. |  |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:40 - Sep 3 with 1794 views | dirk_doone |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:37 - Sep 3 by Butty101 |
We wouldnt, Forrest and Brentford battered us and had loads of chances. |
If you're going to make hundreds of sideways and backwards passes in your own half, they are inevitably not all going to be perfect, which makes the interceptions leading to the goals against us also inevitable, which makes it a stupid thing to do.
We are top of the Premier League backwards passing stats. Most of Man City's passes are forwards. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:43]
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:41 - Sep 3 with 1791 views | TripleNiemi |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:30 - Sep 3 by Ifonly |
Part of the problem is that most of these passes are pointless and unproductive. Look at who is actually making the passes:
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
Out of all PL players, we have 3 of the top 6 for passes made. They are Bednarak, Stephens and THB. How many of those passes are useful?
I'd rather get the ball quickly to someone like Lallana or Dibling and let them make the passes. While our defenders are passing it around between themselves, the opposition are either preparing to steal it, or organising their block to stop our attack. |
There is one fairly crucial term that could be applied to the ‘passing’ philosophy and that is ‘forward’. Not against the passing game per se, but surely we should endeavour to be going towards the oppo goal and not our own.
RM now has s reasonable period to bed the newbies in and think about his rigidness to the system. If certain staff continue to be shoehorned into the side against United / Ipswich / Bournemouth then that will tell us all we need to know.
He (RM) deserves a fair crack at it but I definately would not be upset if he were to be released as it’s not just the losing, it’s the manner we are losing games. |  |
| Ready and waiting to mop up those European places...... |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:45 - Sep 3 with 1766 views | saintwizzler |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:37 - Sep 3 by Butty101 |
We wouldnt, Forrest and Brentford battered us and had loads of chances. |
Which they didn’t take. | |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:47 - Sep 3 with 1753 views | PatfromPoole |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:30 - Sep 3 by Ifonly |
Part of the problem is that most of these passes are pointless and unproductive. Look at who is actually making the passes:
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_pass
Out of all PL players, we have 3 of the top 6 for passes made. They are Bednarak, Stephens and THB. How many of those passes are useful?
I'd rather get the ball quickly to someone like Lallana or Dibling and let them make the passes. While our defenders are passing it around between themselves, the opposition are either preparing to steal it, or organising their block to stop our attack. |
Scary stuff re our top 3 passers.
This probably makes them undroppable in Martin’s book.
We are guilty of what Strachan used to call “propaganda football”; loads of pretty stuff with no end product.
Strachan had simple concepts, and said that every move had to end in a cross or a shot.
Twenty years on, this is no less relevant an ethos than it was then. | |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:49 - Sep 3 with 1730 views | dirk_doone |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:45 - Sep 3 by saintwizzler |
Which they didn’t take. |
The lesser teams don't have top strikers, but at least, unlike us, they have strikers, who'll convert 1 in 3 or 4 attempts at goal. The 1 in 2 strikers play for the top teams. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:51]
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:50 - Sep 3 with 1726 views | saint901 |
Playing a game in which you look to create chances with less possession requires a couple of key elements.
First, you need strikers who have a good chance to goal conversion ratio. We don't. Arguably you need a different type of striker than we have although that can be largely solved on the training pitch. If you have say 35% possession, the ball has to be moved from defence to attack quickly - either passed or a strong and quick run. We don't have that player either.
Second, you need an opposition willing to engage.
That means either a 50/50 possession game where we have a chance, they have a chance and you hope that we convert more or a game in which we can defend well and tight for say 65% of the time and when we get the chance, we break fast.
I would say that the present team is ill equipped for either of those scenarios. | | | |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:53 - Sep 3 with 1713 views | dirk_doone |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:50 - Sep 3 by saint901 |
Playing a game in which you look to create chances with less possession requires a couple of key elements.
First, you need strikers who have a good chance to goal conversion ratio. We don't. Arguably you need a different type of striker than we have although that can be largely solved on the training pitch. If you have say 35% possession, the ball has to be moved from defence to attack quickly - either passed or a strong and quick run. We don't have that player either.
Second, you need an opposition willing to engage.
That means either a 50/50 possession game where we have a chance, they have a chance and you hope that we convert more or a game in which we can defend well and tight for say 65% of the time and when we get the chance, we break fast.
I would say that the present team is ill equipped for either of those scenarios. |
"I would say that the present team is ill equipped for either of those scenarios"
If we'd bought a striker instead of a load of wingers, it would have been much better equipped. | |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:05 - Sep 3 with 1687 views | Ifonly |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:50 - Sep 3 by saint901 |
Playing a game in which you look to create chances with less possession requires a couple of key elements.
First, you need strikers who have a good chance to goal conversion ratio. We don't. Arguably you need a different type of striker than we have although that can be largely solved on the training pitch. If you have say 35% possession, the ball has to be moved from defence to attack quickly - either passed or a strong and quick run. We don't have that player either.
Second, you need an opposition willing to engage.
That means either a 50/50 possession game where we have a chance, they have a chance and you hope that we convert more or a game in which we can defend well and tight for say 65% of the time and when we get the chance, we break fast.
I would say that the present team is ill equipped for either of those scenarios. |
"First, you need strikers who have a good chance to goal conversion ratio"
Not true. Look at the stats. Often when we have 2/3rds possession, the opposition create more chances with 1/3rd possession. Not only that, they are better chances because they come from quick breaks, not slow build up.
"the ball has to be moved from defence to attack quickly"
True. Getting the opposition to engage is not a problem. Any team in the world will move towards your goal when you sit in a low block. But, as you say you then need to attack quickly. You say we don't have the players to do that. I disagree. Arma, for example has plenty of pace and would do this well. Diaz and Archer have scored plenty of goals from quick breaks (that's basically all they did at Sheff Utd). Fernandes and Dibling have shown that they can carry the ball forward at pace.
We have the players to play this way, we just don't have the manager. | | | |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:09 - Sep 3 with 1684 views | grumpy |
Perhaps if we are going to persist in playing out from the back we should pass to the full backs on the wings? |  | | |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:29 - Sep 3 with 1639 views | saintwizzler |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:09 - Sep 3 by grumpy |
Perhaps if we are going to persist in playing out from the back we should pass to the full backs on the wings? |
I thought this whilst watching on Saturday.
Brentford also played out from the back but to a player who had plenty of space and time.
Usually out wide.
We do the opposite.
Then there’s no time for two touch football.
But our Centre Backs have to take a touch then pass.
By this time the opposition are on them. | |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:40 - Sep 3 with 1626 views | PatfromPoole |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:09 - Sep 3 by grumpy |
Perhaps if we are going to persist in playing out from the back we should pass to the full backs on the wings? |
It’s a good point.
But it’s all part of us being “Man City lite”.
I don’t think their full backs see that much of the ball either.
Doesn’t score highly enough in the RISK / REWARD ratio, you see.
Trust the process!!! | |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 12:51 - Sep 3 with 1510 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 11:29 - Sep 3 by saintwizzler |
I thought this whilst watching on Saturday.
Brentford also played out from the back but to a player who had plenty of space and time.
Usually out wide.
We do the opposite.
Then there’s no time for two touch football.
But our Centre Backs have to take a touch then pass.
By this time the opposition are on them. |
The reason the CB's touch then pass is probably that the main point of discussion on here and elsewhere and highlighted by pundits/press, in that they are simply not good enough for this style of football, hence the sh1t state we appear to be in |  | | |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 15:26 - Sep 3 with 1331 views | Berber |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 10:53 - Sep 3 by dirk_doone |
"I would say that the present team is ill equipped for either of those scenarios"
If we'd bought a striker instead of a load of wingers, it would have been much better equipped. |
But with all of our wingers, we should be able to meet Gordon Strachan’s requirement, if only the CBs could get the ball forward. |  |
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| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 19:05 - Sep 3 with 1214 views | StAnt |
Watch the way Liverpool play out from the back. It's invariably a hard low pass pinged to a full back wide on the flank well away from the danger zone but, if it's not on, they are quite happy to go long. If you play out from the back properly opponents generally allow you more time and space. If you play out from the back like we do, opponents set a hard press and then the panic sets in. Learn to do it properly with longer harder hit passes and stop the short suicidal passes which invite pressure. If RM is unable to understand this he is going to continue losing football matches until the penny finally drops. | | | |
| Some rather telling stats - pass completion on 01:09 - Sep 4 with 1103 views | sledger |
we get the ball forward so slowly that all our creative players are double marked,look how fast brentford got forward when the ball turned over | | | |
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